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1998-11-18 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION November 18, 1998 New Life Lutheran Church site,northeast corner of Buffalo Grove Road/Deerfield Parkway-Proposed amendment of Special Use and Preliminary Plan for the church and Kensington School—Workshop#1 Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove,Illinois. Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel Mr. Krug Ms. Howard Mr. Samuels Mr. Berman Mr. Trilling Mr. Ottenheimer Mr. Moons Mr. Viehman Commissioners absent: None Also present: Mr. Jim Conley, Great Lakes Management Ms. Barbara Marlas,Kensington School Mr. Charles Marlas,Kensington School Pastor Andrew Bauer,New Life Lutheran Church Mr. Scott Wood,New Life Lutheran Church Mr. Brian Rubin, Village Trustee Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner APPROVAL OF MINUTES Moved by Commissioner Samuels, seconded by Commissioner Ottenheimer to approve the minutes of the public hearings of October 21, 1998. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion passed unanimously with Commissioners Krug and Viehman abstaining. COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS Commissioner Krug stated he attended the sub-committee on zoning on November 17, 1998 Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 1 which was a review and goals and priorities were set. The first priority is to be parking and then business districts and then telecommunication towers. The parking in business districts needs evaluation when tenants and uses change. Commissioner Samuels stated he attended the Village board meeting on November 16, 1998 and the following items were discussed: 1. Approval of the Zoning Ordinance text amendment for veterinary services in the Industrial District as well as approval of the special uses for the two veterinary facilities; 2. Approval of Burger King in the Town Center; 3. A pre-application conference concerning a proposed development by Zale Homes to build 28 single family residences along Prairie Road,north of the Indian Creek subdivision. NEW LIFE LUTHERAN CHURCH SITE.NORTHEAST CORNER OF BUFFALO GROVE ROAD/DEERFIELD PARKWAY-PROPOSED AMENDMENT OF SPECIAL USE AND PRELIMINARY PLAN FOR THE CHURCH AND KENSINGTON SCHOOL -- WORKSHOP #1 Barbara Marlas of the Kensington School stated they wish to work with the New Life Lutheran Church in order to establish a fine early childhood facility on the property. She reviewed the goals and ideals of the school and a brief history of their past 30 years in business. She stated their hours of operation would be approximately 6:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Pastor Andrew Bauer of the New Life Lutheran Church stated the church has been in Buffalo Grove for 11 years and was in Wheeling for 10 years before that. They presently gather at Twin Groves Junior High School for Sunday worship and would like to establish a physical presence at this time and are therefore glad that the Marlas' are working with them to try to make use of the property that the church has owned for about nine years. Chairman Goldspiel asked where the dividing line will be between the two lots. Mr. Jim Conley of Great Lake Management stated they would like to have approximately one- half of the site for the church and one-half for the school. The school is planning to build two buildings. One building will be 10,000 square feet and is to be a two-story building and another building of 5,000 square feet. The church is looking to build a 5,000 square foot building. Parking is planned to be shared within a 60 space lot. The school needs parking Monday through Friday and the church needs the parking on Sundays and there should be no conflict for the two uses. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 2 Mr. Jim Conley stated that Manhard had originally done a topographical for the church showing all the elevations, as well as a tree study. Joseph Koenen,civil engineer for the residential subdivision behind this property, had also done an engineering study of this site. He also indicated the detention had been thought of for the proposed site but that grading would be necessary to allow drainage from this site into the existing detention pond. Mr. Conley noted the small pond on the site was installed by the owner of the previous house on �./ the site. The pond is only a couple of feet deep. Mr.Koenen will confirm if this pond is an important issue in developing this site. Chairman Goldspiel noted it would be a good idea to check with the Lake County Department of Transportation about the entrances and exits. He stated it has been the Village's experience that Lake County does not want main entrances on Buffalo Grove Road. Mr. Conley noted that preliminary thoughts have been that any entrance would be as far away from Busch as possible. Commissioner Samuels noted the difficulty with the unmountable median on Buffalo Grove Road and the fact that no left turns may be allowed. Mr. Conley further noted that the sewer tie in with the residential area behind the property also needs to be thoroughly checked out. He further noted the previous survey indicates there are no trees worth saving on the site. Chairman Goldspiel stated there have been some revisions to Lake County's stormwater ordinance and that has resulted in major changes to the engineering design of some developments. This also needs to be evaluated for this project. Chairman Goldspiel also noted that they need to work with the Village Attorney to achieve some kind of cross easement or legal documents that confirm the shared parking. It will be important to know what the usage of the two lots will be and the hours of coming and going for both uses as well the capacity of each of the uses in order to see how they can work in tandem. Mr. Conley stated they have conducted a traffic study of the Kensington School in St. Charles to determine the number of cars that go in and out. Mr. Charles Marlas stated they have used KLOA to conduct a traffic study at their St. Charles school. As far as the cross easements are concerned,they have been worked into the land sale agreement. Parking has been taken care between the parties through their attorneys and there are record restrictions and cross easements giving both parties access to ingress and egress to the property. Wherever the driveway stands is where the property line will be formed giving both parties actual property rights to ingress and egress as well as definite restrictions on who is to have exclusive property rights to the parking lot and at what times. The school will have rights Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 3 to the lot Monday through Friday from 6:30 am to 5:30 pm and the church will have exclusive rights to the lot on weekends. There will be some overlaps in the evening for the church when they have weekday bible study class and on Saturdays. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there is any idea as yet of the number of people involved in each of the uses. Mr. Scott Wood of New Life Lutheran Church stated the proposed church would have a seating capacity of approximately 140 people for Sunday morning worship. The evening meetings are usually in the range of 5 to 10 people. Commissioner Samuels asked how many spaces the church is presently using at Twin Grove school. Mr. Wood stated they have about 50 to 60 people in attendance on Sunday mornings which use about 20 to 22 parking spaces Their highest attendance has been about 80 to 85 people. If they were ever to reach and exceed the 140 capacity,they would look to go to two services. Ms. Marlas stated they propose to have 8 classrooms in the two-story building and 4 classrooms in the one-story building. They perceive the one story building to be a half day program comprised of four classrooms,probably between 16 to 10 children each. She noted they stagger the arrivals and departures at their other school so that one group begins at 8:30 a.m., one at 8:45 a.m., one at 9:00 a.m. and one at 9:15 a.m. Likewise dismissal is at 11:00 a.m., 11:15 a.m., 11:30 a.m. and 11:45 a.m. She stated they have a rotating car pattern with parents remaining in the car and coming around in a circular pattern. The children are then brought to the car. The - larger building is to be devoted to full day care. The building opens at 6:30 a.m. and closes at 6:30 p.m. Typically parents will come staggered between 6:30 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. for arrival and approximately 4:00 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. for pickup. The maximum number of children is approximately 180 but not all at one time because of pre-school classes. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there will be bus service. Ms. Marlas stated they have vans available but would need to gauge the needs of the community before deciding whether this would be necessary here. It would be a 14 passenger van which would pick children up at the local school for after school care at this school. Commissioner Trilling asked when the church would be starting this project since they have already owned the property for the past nine years. Mr. Wood stated they would like to start in 1999 and the school would like to start construction in the spring. This would require the infra-structure to be in and everything to be ready for the church to build on its side of the property. He stated they do need the financial help from the school use in order to be able to afford the infra-structure costs involved in allowing the church Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 4 to build. Commissioner Trilling noted that the school would have to build first because if they did not,the church would not be able to develop its parcel. Ms. Marlas stated under the contract the school has an obligation to complete the infra-structure, weather permitting within 90 days after the approval of the special use. Kensington school wishes to be open in September and time is of the essence for this project. She noted the financing is in place and they very much want to go forward. Commissioner Trilling asked why a 5,000 square foot area is needed for only four classrooms. Ms. Marlas stated Kensington believes in extra space to provide a superior environment. There are cloak rooms, shared bathrooms, a large rotunda where special classes take place,director's offices, and small kitchen. III Commissioner Trilling asked if the two-story story building has an elevator. Ms. Marlas stated they currently have a lift. The State of Illinois approved a lift. There are also two staircases fully enclosed. One goes directly to the outside from the second floor and one is just through the interior from floor to floor. Commissioner Trilling asked why the church is planning for 140 capacity as membership seems to have gone down. Mr. Wood stated they are looking at 140 is a good number which would also be able to be divided into two services if and when necessary. There will be three classrooms for Sunday school activities and a pastor's office. Commissioner Trilling asked if it is the church's intention to increase parking areas when more families join. Mr. Wood stated they hope to be able to plan for the availability to construct future parking if needed. Immediate needs require only 60 to 65 spaces. Commissioner Trilling asked if there will be protection from the pond for the children. Ms. Marlas stated they will be placing a play yard to the north which will be fully fenced and contained and screened on both sides. She noted the fencing is six feet at one playground and four feet in another with three different play surfaces on the interior for the children. Chairman Goldspiel asked for a drawing of this play yard for the next meeting. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 5 Ms. Marlas stated they have clearly defined the amount of clerical help the church will need and allowed for visitors. They have also looked at their own staff needs and safety issues and 60 spaces more than exceeds the usage required even by Kensington School. When there is to be an evening teacher's meeting,they have an agreement to notify the church within 30 days and a mutually acceptable day is agreed to. Commissioner Trilling noted the following items may need to be addressed at the next meeting: 1. Showing the required zoning setbacks will be provided; 2. Identify any variations of Village ordinances that will be requested and explain the justification for each variation; 3. Identify any service drives around the buildings that will be recommended by the Fire Department or other Village staff. Commissioner Trilling asked why there is to be two separate buildings instead of just one. Ms. Marlas stated the two buildings separate the needs of the different age groups. At this facility they are considering the different needs of the pre-school program from the full day program. The comings and goings of the half day child necessitate a different program and building facility usage than the full day. Commissioner Samuels asked if additional right-of-way will be required and taken into account for setbacks. Mr. Conley stated engineering plans will put the buildings with proper setbacks, but nothing has yet been decided yet and they are not sure about additional right-of-way. Commissioner Samuels asked if this use as a school is considered a permitted use. Mr. Pfeil stated that in residential districts, child care centers are a special use. He noted that public, private and parochial schools are also special uses in residential districts. In addition, he noted that Mr. Kuenkler,the Village Engineer,observes that the Lake County access ordinance requires a right-of-way of 60-foot from center line of Buffalo Grove Road. If the County requires that this standard be met, a dedication of 6 feet in width would have to be provided along the Buffalo Grove Road frontage of this property. Mr. David Loeb stated that in conversations with the Lake County Department of Transportation staff, they have been told that the County will only allow one access off of Buffalo Grove Road and absolutely no access to Deerfield Parkway. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 6 Mr. Pfeil stated that the petitioner needs to verify the status of Lake County's review concerning a permit for access to this property, including whether the additional 6 feet of right-of-way along Buffalo Grove Road will be required.. Chairman Goldspiel noted that the issue of setbacks needs to be discussed in greater depth at the next meeting. Commissioner Samuels asked what the ages of the children will be in each of the buildings. Ms. Marlas stated they are considering bringing children to this facility who are 2 years and older. It seems from informal conversations with various directors that 2 years and older is what is really needed in this area. One building will be half day care for pre-school and another building is for full day care. Commissioner Samuels asked if any traffic counts have been done and if there are differences between the usage of this property from a traffic standpoint between the school and the church. Mr. Charles Marlas stated KLOA is in the process of conducting such traffic counts now. Commissioner Samuels stated the peak hour traffic for the day care facility coincides with the peak rush hour traffic and this will need to be fully evaluated. Commissioner Ottenheimer stated this is a unique concept of having two different entities co- developing a single parcel of property. Therefore,he feels it would be appropriate to have the Village Attorney take a look at the agreement between the two parties. He also noted it may be a good idea for the two parties to check with staff and make sure the plans are given to the fire department and police department for review. In additional he noted that he will need a very strong argument or facts that this development will not create more problems than already exist. Ms. Marlas stated they have the same concerns. They feel that the varied time schedule of parents for drop off and pickups will help the situation. In addition they are hopeful that parents will learn that the best situation is a right-in and out instead of crossing against traffic. Commissioner Ottenheimer asked what the small building will be used for after the half day kids are gone. Ms. Marlas stated the building is used for two half day sessions. Commissioner Krug asked how many employees will be used. Ms. Marlas stated their ratio is 10:1 for children ages 3 and older, 8:1 for 2 year olds and 20:1 for kindergarten and older. That means they will have approximately 22 teachers and staff for both buildings. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 7 Commissioner Krug asked if the Fire Department had been contacted about access around the school building. Ms. Marlas stated before they can be approved by the Department of Children and Family Services, they must be fully approved by the State Fire Marshall. Commissioner Krug stated it is necessary to look at the setbacks from the adjacent residential lots. Mr. Pfeil stated the side yard requirement is 10 percent of lot width in this type of residential district. He noted these are both special uses and it may not be necessary to apply rigid standards to non-residential uses abutting each other. Commissioner Samuels said that he does not support granting setback variations for situations that are created by a petitioner's need to subdivide land to accommodate multiple users. He said that he would expect the current petitioner to meet applicable zoning setback standards. Commissioner Viehman stated the traffic issue with its potential access off Buffalo Grove Road would seem to revolve around where people will be coming from for these uses and then the traffic pattern may dictate what kind of ingress and egress is needed and if same will be possible at this site. He noted that some consideration for buffering and screening as well as landscaping should be made for the adjacent residential properties. Commissioner Berman stated his hesitation is whether or not the site is appropriate for a school in terms of traffic, site circulation, safety and layout and imposition on the surrounding • community. There needs to be much evaluation and discussion of the impact of the traffic. He asked if there will not be an elevator in the two story building. Ms. Marlas stated that rather than an elevator the building will have a"lift." He stated that ADA requires all two story buildings to have sufficient access to the second floor. DCFS requires them to turn the elevator off as soon as operations begin as a safety concern. With this in mind, John Anderson, in Springfield suggested a mechanical lift which brings them up to code sufficiently to fulfill ADA requirements and once the school is open for business it is easy enough to turn the lift off. A director would, of course, have a key to the lift if it was required for a child or parent's use. Commissioner Berman asked if the capacity for 140 was with fixed or movable seating. Mr. Wood stated this would be fixed seating for 140 only. Commissioner Howard echoed the concerns of the Commissioners regarding traffic concerns as well as Commissioner Viehman's suggestion for buffering along the residential lots. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 8 Commissioner Moons asked if there is a contractual arrangement that ensures the church will be built once the school is built. Mr. Wood stated they have a commitment laid out with the Wisconsin synod. They have also required that equity be raised and then a loan will be acquired. Commissioner Moons noted that means that the building of the church is still conditional on raising a certain amount of money. Mr. Wood stated that money is now in place. Commissioner Moons asked if the school could easily be converted into any other uses. Mr. Conley stated the building could change its use to a professional building or small office building and several other uses. Commissioner Moons asked if there will be any classrooms for church use in the school. Mr. Wood stated no. Chairman Goldspiel noted the school site has two sides of water around it and therefore asked what kind of safety measures will be provided. Ms. Marlas stated they already have fenced in the play yard which is the greatest portion of the land to the back. From the parking lot access,they hope they will be with their parents. However, if the Commission feels that a screen is also appropriate to continue that fencing across the parking lot, they will look into it. However,at their other schools, children leave one on one with a parent or care giver and it does work fine. Chairman Goldspiel stated he would like to see where the fences are in addition to the play area at the next meeting. Chairman Goldspiel emphasized again that the Fire Department is very strong about having access all around buildings where there are sensitive uses. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there would be any special church events. Mr. Wood stated they have discussions about concurrent special events with the school. Pastor Bauer stated they have set up a packet of information which shows how the two schedules work out together. Basically, Kensington School uses the parking lot from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. and then the church has the lot in the evenings during the weekdays. There will be shared use on Saturday and exclusive use on Sunday morning with shared use on Sunday afternoon. Weddings Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 9 and funerals would be exceptions. Weddings can be arranged in advance and worked out with the school. The third exception would be a vacation bible school conflict. However,the numbers for same are very small and they would work with Kensington School to work around any such conflict. Ms. Marlas further stated that school use of the parking on Saturdays and Sundays is extremely limited in nature and would not be a problem. Chairman Goldspiel noted he would like staff to determine if any augmentation for Buffalo Grove Road would be necessary to in connection with this development. He further noted that down the line questions regarding the building appearance, lighting and landscaping would need to be discussed. Commissioner Samuels noted that when a property is split it is then incumbent that no variations be asked for based on the fact that some requirement cannot be met because the properties are tight. FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE Mr. Pfeil said the next meeting is scheduled for December 2, 1998. PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS -None STAFF REPORT • Mr. Pfeil commented that copies of the Illinois Municipal League's revised Zoning Handbook are available for each Commissioner. NEW BUSINESS -None ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Trilling, seconded by Commissioner Howard and carried unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Goldspiel adjourned the meeting at 9:40 p.m. Resp dully su itted, Fay Rub' , ecording Secretary Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 10 APPROVED BY: TE EN GOLDSPIEL, airman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-November 18, 1998-Page 11