1991-10-30 - Plan Commission - Minutes SPECIAL MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
October 30, 1991
Rohrman Auto Dealership, Happ Property and
Chatham B-3 Parcel, Dundee Road West of Weidner Road
Rezoning to B-4 and Preliminary Plan -- Workshop #3
Chairman Silbernik called the meeting to order at 7: 30 p.m. in the
Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Silbernik
Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Mr. Rhodes
Ms. Howard
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Charlette
Mr. Samuels
Commissioners absent: Ms. Genell
Also present: Mr. Jeffrey Braiman, Village Trustee
Mr. Charles Hendricks, Village Trustee
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
Mr. Robert Rohrman
Mr. Marc Schwartz, Batler & Schwartz
Mr. Daniel A. Wolf, Batler & Schwartz
Mr. David B. Miller, Metro Transportation
Group, Inc.
Mr. Robert W. Zolomij , Land Design
Collaborative
Ms. Mary W. Fritz, Land Design
Collaborative
Mr. John J. Pezl, CE Design, Ltd.
Mr. William F. Herrmann, CE Design, Ltd.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Rhodes, seconded by Commissioner Howard to
approve the minutes of the Public Hearing of October 9, 1991.
Chairman Silbernik noted that page 9, paragraph 3 should be
corrected to read "more discernible" . The motion to approve the
minutes as corrected was approved unanimously. Moved by
Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Rhodes to approve
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 1
the minutes of the Special Meeting of October 9, 1991. All
Commissioners were in favor and the motion carried.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Samuels reported on the Village Board Meeting of
October 28, 1991 noting that three issues had been discussed.
1. He noted that there were some concerns regarding the
broadcasting of Village Board meetings on cable TV. He said
that the cable company has offered a package for the cost of
providing this coverage, and the Board supports the idea to
broadcast the meetings. He further noted that the Board
meetings could possibly be televised by January. He also
noted that some Plan Commission meetings may be broadcast.
2 . With regards to the boundary agreement with Lincolnshire,
Commissioner Samuels noted that any kind of agreement is very
premature at this point. He noted that any kind of agreement
hinges on the willingness of Lincolnshire to support the
widening of Route 22 .
3 . The real estate transfer tax issue was discussed.
Commissioner Samuels said that the tax originally proposed
would be $3 . 00 per $1, 000 and was to be paid by the buyer.
He noted that the Board approved the tax with the provision
that the cost be borne by the seller.
ROHRMAN AUTO DEALERSHIP, HAPP PROPERTY AND CHATHAM B-3 PARCEL,
DUNDEE ROAD WEST OF WEIDNER ROAD - REZONING TO B-4 AND
PRELIMINARY PLAN WORKSHOP #3
Chairman Silbernik stated that this is the third workshop meeting
for this matter and that the public hearing is scheduled for
November 13 , 1991. He stated that the focus of this meeting would
be on the plan only and that both the public and the individual
Commissioners were to address their comments to the plan only
rather than discussing the zoning or land use concept. These issues
would be covered at the public hearing.
Mr Schwartz of Batler & Schwartz stated that the plan calls for one
dealership in response to the comments of both the Plan Commission
and the general public. The plan consists of the 15. 6 acre parcel
of which 7. 4 acres is the Chatham B-3 parcel already owned by Mr.
Rohrman and which would remain zoned B-3 and left vacant for the
present. He stated that Mr. Rohrman has contracted to buy the 8
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 2
acres of Happ property, of which 4. 6 acres would be sold to
District 214 for use as playing fields, and the eastern 4 acres
would be developed for the Saturn auto dealership. An additional 3
acres of the Chatham property would be dedicated to District 214
for use as playing fields.
Mr. Zolomij of Land Design Collaborative stated that the Saturn
dealership would occupy 4. 1 acres of land and would be housed in a
23, 700 foot building surrounded by 234 parking spaces. He noted
there would be two access points for the dealership. The main
access drive would be lined up with the driveway on the south side
of Dundee Road for the Chrysler dealership. There would be another
access driveway slightly further west on Dundee Road which would
provide only right in and right out circulation. The setbacks on
Dundee Road would be twelve feet and eighteen feet and the west
boundary of the site would have a twelve foot landscape buffer
while the north boundary of the site would have a twenty-three foot
buffer as well as heavy planting to shield the residents on that
side of the site. The east boundary of the property would contain
the retention pond which would be attractively landscaped. Mr.
Zolomij noted that the property would be surrounded on three sides
by a six foot fence. He further noted that of the 20 approximate
trees on the site, only a few could be saved. He did, however,
state that they would be planting approximately 100 new trees as
part of the landscape design.
Chairman Silbernik asked if trees numbered 31, 34 and 35 on the
developer's tree survey could be saved as was noted in Mr.
Rigsby's memo dated October 25, 1991. These trees are large sugar
maples, and it would be very desirable to preserve them.
Mr. Zolomij stated that only one of those trees could be saved; the
other two could not be saved due to the access driveway location
onto Dundee Road. This driveway is full-access, and it has
to align with the Chrysler driveway on the south side of Dundee
Road.
Commissioner Rosenston inquired if the trees could not be moved to
another property instead of being destroyed.
Mr. Zolomij stated that they could not as they were too large to be
moved.
Commissioner Samuels noted that if the access driveway were moved
slightly, the trees could be saved.
Mr. Zolomij stated that the problem with moving the access driveway
is that it is designed to align with the existing driveway on the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 3
south side of Dundee in order to avoid problems with left turn
lanes and deceleration lanes.
Mr. Pezl of CE Design, Ltd. stated that access to the dealership is
designed to be completely on Dundee Road with one full access at
the middle of the dealership and another driveway further west on
Dundee which would provide right in and right out access only. He
noted that all storm drainage would feed into a central detention
basin and this detention basin would be constructed with additional
capacity for the requirements of the dealership. Mr. Pezl further
stated that parking would be constructed one foot above the high
water elevation. Mr. Pezl also stated that lighting around the
dealership would be downcast lighting with sharp cut off fixtures
that would eliminate any spillage onto neighboring residences.
Mr. Schwartz stated that they are requesting five variances:
1. Relative to the parking lot, a variance of Section
17. 36. 30.F. 1 of the Zoning Ordinance is being requested to
allow for 18 foot long spaces instead 18.5 feet, and an aisle
width of 24 feet instead of 26 feet. These slightly narrower
aisles on the north and west sides of the site would allow
for much greater green space which is something that the Plan
Commission had expressed a desire for at the last workshop.
Mr. Schwartz noted that the parking in front of the
dealership would comply with the ordinance and the area on
the north and west would be used mainly for storage of
vehicles.
2 . Relative to the detention pond, a variance of Section
16. 50. 04. 0.C.4 of the Development Ordinance is being asked to
allow for vertical concrete retaining walls around the pond.
3 . A landscaping and stone treatment around the pond is
requested instead of the usual eighteen inch boulder
requirement. Mr. Pezl stated that since the pond would be
sitting low, there would be very little wave action which is
usually why the eighteen inch boulders are required.
4 . A pond depth of less than fifteen feet is requested. Mr.
Pezl stated that the normal standard for a pond on a private
facility is six feet. He noted that they would like a six
foot depth with ten foot depths at some points to allow for
fish in the pond.
5. A safety ledge width of less than twelve feet is requested.
Mr. Pezl stated that since the pond is small, it would do
very well with only a five foot ledge.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 4
Mr. Miller of Metro Transportation Group, Inc. delivered an updated
traffic study conducted during weekday peak traffic hours as well
as Saturday morning hours. He noted that approximately 90 percent
of all traffic would come directly from Dundee Road and 10 percent
would come from Weidner Road.
Mr. Miller further stated that the main access driveway for the
dealership must be aligned with the driveway directly across Dundee
Road for the Chrysler dealership in order to avoid any problems
with the left turn lanes. He stated that the left turn bay from
Dundee Road would have a 100 foot taper.
Mr. Miller stated that internal circulation on the development is
good, and there is sufficient stacking space in the driveway area
from Dundee Road.
Mr. Schwartz noted that they are not asking for a used car sales
building, although this building is still on the plans presented in
the Commission's packet. The building will be eliminated for the
public hearing. He then distributed photos of a prototype Saturn
dealership building to the Plan Commission.
Commissioner Goldspiel noted concerns with the pond design and
safety shelf variance requests. He also noted that the cross
section showed that a larger safety shelf could be accommodated.
He indicated that the Village Development Ordinance requires
a fifteen foot pond depth.
Mr. Pezl stated that wider safety shelves are most often required
when used for public access along shorelines. He also noted that
wider safety shelves would require a deeper depth pond.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the reason for safety shelves is
to prevent drownings. This development is quite close to the future
ball fields for District 214, and this type of safety
feature is needed.
Commissioner Goldspiel inquired what material would be used for the
pond retention wall.
Mr. Pezl stated that soil analysis would determine what material
would be best for the retaining wall. He indicated that stone or
timber are possible materials for the wall.
Commissioner Goldspiel noted that the parcel east of the pond would
someday be developed, and the pond should have attractive
aesthetics to support this future development. He said timbers
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 5
are not attractive, and should not be used for this pond.
Commissioner Goldspiel inquired if the length of the left turn bay
from Dundee Road is adequate.
Mr. Miller stated that the left turn lane is 100 feet, which is
more than enough.
Mr. Pfeil stated that the Village traffic consultant had not stated
any negative comments concerning this plan nor had he shown any
undue concern regarding the driveway. Mr. Pfeil noted that he
would confirm this fact with the Village traffic consultant.
Commissioner Goldspiel inquired if District 214 is committed to the
purchase of the 4 . 6 acres of the Happ parcel.
Mr. Schwartz noted that the school district is committed to the
purchase.
Mr. Swanson of District 214 stated that the District is committed
to the purchase.
Mr. Happ stated that he is committed to the sale.
Commissioner Krug inquired if the fence would completely encircle
the development.
Mr. Schwartz noted that the fence would enclose three sides of the
development.
Commissioner Krug inquired if the drainage plan would affect the
flow of stormwater from properties south of Dundee Road, and he
asked if any trees removed in the median work on Dundee Road would
be replaced.
Mr. Pezl stated that the trees would be replanted on the median
parkway area by the developer, and the Illinois Department of
Transportation would require this. He said the drainage plan will
not affect any adjacent properties.
Commissioner Krug inquired if the six foot fence on three sides of
the development would be landscaped.
Mr. Zolomij stated that all three sides would be fully landscaped,
especially on the north side of the property so that it would be an
effective buffer for the residents.
Commissioner Rhodes asked that the issue of the safety ledge
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 6
variance be addressed at the public hearing.
Commissioner Rhodes further inquired if Mr. Rohrman would guarantee
that the employees would not park on residential side streets.
Mr. Rohrman stated that he could not guarantee such a thing but
that if there were a shortage of parking for his employees due to
car deliveries, he would rent additional space for storing cars at
a different location in order to have sufficient parking facilities
on his Saturn site for his employees. He indicated that typically
there would be 120 new cars and 50 used cars on the site, and there
would be approximately 20 employees.
Commissioner Rhodes asked if truck carriers would be able to
maneuver through the narrow aisles.
Mr. Miller stated that the trucks would enter at the main driveway
and pull up to the service bay area, unload the truck and then back
up and exit through the main driveway.
Mr. Rohrman stated that the trucks would enter through the main
driveway and pull up on the east side of the building and unload
their vehicles. He stated that the 24 foot width of the aisles
would be quite sufficient to allow for truck circulation.
Commissioner Rhodes inquired if the vacant Chatham parcel
would be kept landscaped.
Commissioner Rhodes further asked that the size and height of the
building be addressed at the public hearing and that a footprint of
the residences be provided at the public hearing.
Mr. Rohrman and Mr. Schwartz confirmed that the Chatham B-3 parcel
would be properly landscaped and maintained.
Commissioner Howard inquired if 'the eight foot concrete bikeway
running east and west along Dundee would be incorporated as
requested in Mr. Boysen's memo.
Mr. Schwartz noted that the bikeway has been incorporated on the
engineering plan.
Commissioner Howard also requested that the location of the silo be
marked on the plan for the public hearing. She further noted that
she concurs with the other Commissioners regarding the necessity of
a larger safety ledge on the stormwater pond.
Commissioner Rosenston concurred with the other Commissioners
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 7
. _. _ ... _ ...
regarding the importance of the safety ledge and also asked if the
eight foot concrete pathway running east and west along Dundee Road
would be constructed to replace the crumbling existing asphalt
pathway west of the proposed auto dealership.
Mr. Schwartz stated that off-site improvements had not been
addressed as yet.
Commissioner Rosenston also requested that the traffic study
conducted during peak traffic periods be interfaced with the school
bus situation and ready for review for the public hearing.
Commissioner Rosenston also noted that he would like to see the
aisle width on the west side of the proposed building brought up to
code at 26 feet at about one third of the distance approaching
Dundee Road in order to accommodate customers.
Commissioner Charlette inquired about the location of the
handicapped parking.
Mr. Zolomij stated there would be three handicapped parking spaces
in the front of the proposed building.
Commissioner Samuels noted that tree number 34 could possibly saved
if the area formerly designed for the used car building were made
into a parking space and asked that the developer look into that
possibility. He further inquired about the status of the silo.
Mr. Pfeil stated that there is no definite commitment to save the
silo. He suggested that the developer ascertain the structural
condition of the silo.
Commissioner Samuels inquired if the retention pond would be
sufficient to handle any kind of development on the vacant eastern
portion of the site.
Mr. Pezl stated that the retention area was originally sized with
an office development on that site in mind and that the pond is
actually oversized for the proposed development.
Commissioner Krug inquired if the proposed playing fields would
have underdrains, and if the stormwater would drain to the
retention pond on Mr. Rohrman's site.
Mr. Pezl said he has not considered the drainage system for the
playing fields, but he believes the retention pond could
accommodate stormwater from the fields, since the Chatham B-3
parcel was originally designed to have a larger impervious surface
than what is now being proposed.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 8
Chairman Silbernik noted his concern regarding the safety shelf and
the desire to save as many trees as possible.
Mr. Schwartz asked for permission for the developer to work with
the Village engineer to design a safety ledge and pond depth that
would be acceptable to the Commission and the Village Board.
Commissioner Krug inquired if perhaps a hammerhead turnaround would
be necessary on Stradford Circle and asked that comments from the
Police Department and Fire Department be available for the public
hearing.
Commissioner Rosenston stated that he would like to see the
location of all doors on the proposed dealership for the public
hearing in order to make sure that there are adequate clearances.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked that a report on the condition of the
silo be ready for the public hearing. He further inquired who is
to maintain the pond.
Mr. Schwartz stated that at present there is one owner of the
property and that owner would maintain the pond. However,
eventually the maintenance would be shared with the future owners.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the ear shaped area on the
western portion of the Chatham B-3 parcel adjacent to the pond
would perhaps be better zoned as part of the Saturn development
instead of the Chatham parcel as it is difficult to get to that
section of land through the Chatham parcel. He repeated his concern
that the stormwater retention pond will need a good aesthetic
treatment to avoid having it look like a pit.
Commissioner Rhodes requested that a commitment be obtained from
School District 214 regarding the underdrainage. of the ball fields.
Jackie Rubin, 907 Greenridge Road, inquired where the entrance to
the service bays would be located. She noted that the proposed
entrance would create a line up of cars along Dundee Road waiting
for the service doors to open which would create a hazard for the
children going to the high school. Ms. Rubin also noted that it
would be nice to have the crumbling asphalt pavement along Dundee
Road replaced with a concrete pathway.
Mr. Schwartz said that there are four service bays with adequate
stacking space in front of each bay, so cars will not back up
onto Dundee Road.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 9
Dennis Benjamin, 807 Beechwood, inquired if new car deliveries
would be done at night.
Mr. Rohrman stated that car deliveries were all done during daytime
hours only.
Commissioner Charlette asked if trucks would ever arrive at night.
Mr. Rohrman said it is possible that trucks could arrive at night,
but they would not be able to unload until regular business hours.
Ms. Ellen Malow, 838 Stradford Circle, said the site plan is being
designed in a vacuum because it does not consider adjacent land
uses. She noted that the Chatham B-3 playing fields will be quite
distant from the High School, and she questioned the practicality
of having the fields so far from the School.
Ron DeFoe, 745 Weidner, inquired if another dealership would be
built on the vacant Chatham parcel and if there would be enough
parking for the employees of the proposed dealership so that they
would not need to park on residential streets.
Chairman Silbernik noted that Mr. Rohrman has indicated that he
would sell the Chatham B-3 parcel, apparently to an office
developer or some similar use. He said that Mr. Rohrman has
represented that an extra lot for car deliveries would be used if
there were so many cars delivered that it took up all available
parking spaces for his employees.
Eleanor Hesse, 787 Beechwood, inquired about sale price of the Happ
ro ert
P .P Y
Chairman Silbernik said the price of the land is not pertinent
to the Village's zoning review.
Sue Techman, 338 Regent Drive, said the Mr. Rohrman's dealerships
on Dundee Road near Route 53 are not attractive, and cars are
parked on the parkway.
Commissioner Rhodes noted that cars are not supposed to be
displayed within the required setback in a front yard, and he
asked staff to determine if this standard is being violated by
existing car dealers in the Village.
Mr. Benjamin asked if the outdoor lights would be turned off after
the dealership is closed each night.
Mr. Rohrman indicated that the outdoor lights would be turned off
at 9:00 P.M. , but three lights would be left on for security.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 10
Jeff Larson, 851 Weidner, asked how the site would handle three
car transports at one time.
Mr. Rohrman said the transports will go to the east side of the
building, and three transports could be accommodated at one time.
Karen Henry, 828 Stradford Circle, asked what the hours of
operation would be for the proposed dealership, and whether
an outdoor intercom or speaker system would be used.
Mr. Rohrman said the service department would be open from 7: 00
or 7: 30 A.M. to 5: 00 P.M. , with service pickups until 6: 00 P.M.
He said the dealership would not have an outdoor speaker system.
Mary Flynn, 773 White Pine, asked where the exit would be for the
service bays.
Mr. Rohrman said he would have to check the site plan to determine
the location of the service bay exits.
Ms. Hesse asked where old parts would be stored, and whether the
building's doors in the service area would be open during warm
weather.
Mr. Rohrman said used parts go into a trash container, and the
facility would not have a body shop, so parts will not be
stockpiled outside.
Commissioner Charlette asked if there would be outside storage for
used oil.
Mr. Rohrman noted that the Village of Buffalo Grove did not allow
storage of oil and that the oil would be properly disposed of by a
private service.
Moved by Commissioner Rhodes, seconded by Commissioner Howard that
the Plan Commission recommend the Rohrman Auto Dealership project
go to public hearing subject to the following:
1. Clarification of materials to be used in the construction of
the retention pond as well as size of the safety ledge and
the aesthetic treatment for the walls
2 . Fencing to be provided all around the detention area
3 . Planting of median parkway trees per IDOT specifications
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 11
4. Landscaping of the small oval shaped area near the retention
pond on the Chatham B-3 parcel
5. Provision of footprints of the residential properties to the
north of the proposed development
6. The location of the silo is to be marked on the plans, and
the condition of the silo is to be described
7. Completion of an eight foot concrete pathway along Dundee
Road, including off-site areas
8. Traffic analysis noting exact peak hours, including a study
of how school traffic interfaces with peak hours of traffic
9. Specification of the areas where the variation for parking
stall length and aisle is being requested
10. Potential of making the area proposed for the used car sales
office into a parking space, thereby saving tree number 34
11. Location of all doors to be noted on development plans
12 . Determine if a hammerhead turnaround is needed at Stradford
Circle
13 . Location of dumpsters
14 . Report on the underdraining on the ball fields
15. Note the number and location of handicapped parking spaces
16. Determine if the ear shaped area on the Chatham B-3 parcel
adjacent to the stormwater pond should be incorporated into
the Saturn parcel
Chairman Silbernik called for a vote on the motion, and the vote
was as follows:
AYES: Krug, Rhodes, Howard, Rosenston, Charlette, Samuels
NAYES: None
ABSTAIN: Goldspiel
�./ ABSENT: Genell
The motion carried 6 to 0, with one abstention.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT - None
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 12
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil indicated there would be public hearings on November 6
9
1991 concerning Reservoir and Pumphouse No. 2 and the Abbott
Contractors parcel at Busch Road and Route 83 . On November 13th a
public hearing concerning the Rohrman Auto Dealership project is
scheduled. The meeting on November 20th would have a workshop for
the Concrete Doctor property next to the Illinois Bell building
east of Weiland Road, and a workshop concerning the Winchester
Estates townhomes at Bank Lane and Route 83 .
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS - None
STAFF REPORT - None
NEW BUSINESS
Commissioner Howard asked if a traffic signal would be constructed
at the intersection of Checker Road and Buffalo Grove Road adjacent
to the new post office.
Mr. Pfeil stated that there is no firm schedule for a signal at
this location, and a warrant study would have to be done to
determine if traffic movements justify the need for a signal.
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Rhodes, seconded by Commissioner Rosenston,
and unanimously carried to adjourn. Chairman Silbernik adjourned
the meeting at 9:30 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
li
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 13
f
/4t
Fay Rubin, R cording Secretary
APPROV Y:
MARTIN SILBERNIK, Chairman
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Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-October 30, 1991-Page 14
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