1996-01-10 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
January 10, 1996
Jacobs Auto Laundry and Commercial Facility
Southeast corner of Aptakisic Road/Weiland Road
Chairman Goldspiel called the hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard,Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Chairman
Goldspiel read the Notice of Public Hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald,
explained the procedure for the hearing and swore in all persons who wished to give testimony.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Ms. Howard
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Trilling
Mr. Lundine
Mr. Ottenheimer
Commissioners absent: Mr. Berman
Also present: Mr. Lawrence M. Freedman, Ash, Anos, Freedman& Logan
Mr. Brian Homans, Shiner& Associates, Inc.
Mr. Gerald Lindgren,Kenig, Lindgren, O'Hara, Aboona, Inc.
Mr. John Green, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Richard Vane, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Keith Jacobs, Jacobs Homes
Mr. Jeff Meyers, Hoffman Services
Ms. DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. Richard Kuenider, Village Engineer
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the public hearing:
Exhibit 1: Aerial photograph of subject property
Exhibit 2: Comprehensive Plan of 1992
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 1
Exhibit 3: Preliminary Plan dated 3/28/90
Exhibit 4: Concept Site Plan dated 7/5/95
Exhibit 5: Preliminary Site Plan dated 7/25/95
Exhibit 6: Study for Potential Use Phase 2
Exhibit 7: Proposed Commercial Development dated 7/25/95
Exhibit 8: Revised Preliminary Plan dated September 19, 1995
Exhibit 9: Preliminary Site Plan,Phase 1 and 2 dated October 10, 1995
Exhibit 10: Landscape Plan dated November 2, 1995
Exhibit 11: Extended Site Plan, undated
Exhibit 12: Preliminary Site Plan dated 11/13/95
Exhibit 13: Preliminary Site Plan dated 12/19/95
Exhibit 14: Extended Site Plan dated 12/19/95
Exhibit 15: Revised Preliminary Engineering Plan dated 12/19/95
Mr. Freedman stated they propose to divide the subject property into two lots, one of which will
be developed pursuant to the B-4 zoning classification with an approximately 8,000 square foot
automobile laundry. The other lot is proposed for approximately 5,200 square feet of commercial
use pursuant to the B-1 zoning district. The property is presently zoned B-1 so only the lot for
the automobile laundry is proposed for rezoning. With respect to the B-1 uses, he noted they will
voluntarily exclude certain uses ordinarily allowed in the B-1 zone.
Mr. Green reviewed 1.6 acre parcel site stating to the north, northeast and southeast is property
developed in Lincolnshire. On the east side of Weiland Road is commercial and industrial
property. B-1 zoning exists to the west and was approved for the JCYS facility. This property
was zoned as part of the original Old Farm Village development and it was zoned as B-1 for
commercial use.
Mr. Green noted this particular site is bounded on three sides by roads. In 1990 this site was
approved for a 22,000 square foot building and material supply building with 86 spaces.
Approximately 80 percent of the site was covered with impervious surface, 12 foot setbacks were
proposed on the south, west and north side of the site.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 2
Mr. Green further reviewed the original plan and its many revisions leading to the plan as
proposed for this hearing. He noted the Commission has asked for a list of allowable uses under
B-1 zoning. This list has now been provided, although they have eliminated restaurants, grocery
stores, department stores, furniture stores, health clubs, hardware stores,taverns, liquor stores
and eight other already permitted uses.
Mr. Green stressed their request is only to have the north two-thirds of the site rezoned. The
south 1.9-acres remains B-1. The limited uses will apply to the whole site and not just the B-4
portion.
Mr. Green stated they have tried to keep the entire west side landscaped with no drives and no
parking. There will be a full 25 feet from the north end to the south end to be landscaped and
there will be 30 feet at the point of the auto laundry which will provide for additional berming and
screening. All parking is now located to the east of the buildings. The buildings will act as sound
and screening from the parking, driveway and railroad. The parking is provided to meet
requirements for each lot on each lot. The commercial 5,200 square foot building is required to
have 21 parking spaces which are shown on the plan. There are 17 parking spaces serving just
the auto laundry. There is a straight line that now divides the lots so there is clear delineation
between the B-4 and the B-1. Driveway stacking is now fully separated from the parking flow.
This is the result of the traffic consultants working together and coming up with a plan to create
that separation so that both facilities can now operate and park without blockage. By-pass
opportunities now exist at several points along the site and there is also turnaround opportunities
at the commercial building area. The north access to the commercial portion of the property has
been limited to one way only to avoid crossover traffic and there is two way traffic in and out at
the south end. There is now a 20 foot drive aisle out at the drying area and has been expanded to
hold up to ten vehicles.
Mr. Green stated the commercial facility has been reduced to 5,200 square feet. Public walks are
now provided on all sides of the site adjacent to right-of ways. Pedestrian walks are also
provided running along the east side of the buildings so that there can be flow to and from the
parking in a safe manner. There is now ample travel distance of 280 feet from the car wash exit
to the southernmost ingress/egress point of the site so that pavement wetting will no longer be an
issue.
Mr. Green stated the wash is now located 330 feet from the back lot line of the nearest residential
zoning and over 400 feet from the nearest house. The commercial building on the south, along
with the berming and landscaping will further ensure that the residences to the south and west of
the site will be better protected. Refuse and large delivery trucks are usually operated in non-
peak hours and now have easy onsite access with full turnaround opportunities. Even small
delivery vans can now access the commercial building without blocking the driveway or
interfering with peak times at the auto laundry.
Mr. Green stated the Fire Department indicates that access is OK and that a fire hydrant be
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 3
located between the two buildings. This will be carried through. The Police Department stated
that two access points would be nice, but this site is restricted to one access point. However, it is
surrounded on three sides by streets so there is available access on all three sides if absolutely
necessary.
Mr. Green noted only two technical variations are required instead of three as listed in the public
notice. The parking in the south front yard is not a required variation as parking is allowed to be
within 12 feet of the lot line. Therefore, they are withdrawing that variation request.
Li
Mr. Green further stated the floor area ratio allowed is .5. That would allow 32,850 square feet
of building on the site. They are proposing .201 or 13,200 square feet of buildings. The
allowable height is 45 feet and they are proposing 22 feet. All parking and all yards have been
provided for with a full 25 foot yard along the west side.
Mr. Freedman stated the sound issue caused them to run some new tests run by a qualified expert.
Mr. Brian Homans of Shiner& Associates, Inc. Reviewed his qualifications. He stated he went to
the site on two occasions, both very cold days. The first day was a Sunday between 9:30 a.m. to
10:30 a.m. and the second was a Wednesday between 9:20 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. He stated he
considers these hours to be non-rush hours times and relatively low traffic. In addition he
conducted sound level measurements at a similar car wash located in Schaumburg which was
chosen because the configuration or site plan was similar to the proposed plan. It also had many
apartment buildings located across the street.
Mr. Homans stated some rules of thumb must be observed. A difference of 3dB is considered a
minimal change that is discerned by most people over an extended period. A change in sound
level of 10dB results in a perceived loudness of about twice as loud. A change in sound level at
20 dB is perceived as about a four times increase in sound level. He gave examples of some
common sound levels: the human voice at a distance of about four feet measures about 75dBA, an
air conditioner condenser measured at the property lot line measures about 60-65dBA, bird calls
measure about 40 dBA, a diesel truck traveling 40 mph measures about 80dBA.
Mr. Homans stated he took short term readings at two spots on the proposed site, one at 50 feet
off the edge of the pavement just north of Old Weiland Road and another at 100 feet west of the
pavement adjacent to the nearest residence. From the readings he stated at point C which is 100
feet from the nearest residence the readings ranged from 56-59 dBA. Allowing the monitor to
run for about an hour produced levels of 60dBA. A train passing by at that point raised the level
to 69dBA. Measurements conducted at the Rolling Meadows facility at 350 feet away from the
blower produced levels of about 62dBA.
Mr. Homans stated his calculations are very conservative not having taken into account any kind
of shielding or berming and no allowance for the new version and quieter blowers. He concluded
that someone at the nearest property line to the proposed site would have a hard time hearing the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 4
auto laundry when same is in operation.
Mr. Richard Vane of Groundwork, Ltd., reviewed the Preliminary Engineering Plan stating the
site is part of the original Old Farm development. Both pieces were designed to be served by the
existing sanitary sewer which will be extended along an existing easement on the south side.
Calculations confirm there is adequate sewer capacity on the line. There is already a large water
main along Weiland Road and a 16 inch water main along Aptakisic Road. The main will be
extended across Old Weiland Road. The water capacity has been checked and found to be
`./ adequate for this proposed facility. Stormwater detention will be provided in the existing pond
used by the Lake County Division of Transportation. The detention pond will be expanded and
they will provide a catch basin at the car wash outlet to catch the water as soon as the cars comes
out. The water will then be taken to the detention pond and released in accordance with the Lake
County and Village requirements.
Mr. Freedman stated there have been changes made to the traffic plan in accordance with a
conference between Mr. Lindgren and the Village traffic consultant and now complies with all
suggestions made by the Village consultant.
Commissioner Krug asked what the proposed hours for the auto laundry will be.
Mr. Freedman indicated the proposed hours are Monday through Friday, 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m.
and Saturday and Sunday, 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Commissioner Krug asked if any cars would be kept overnight or a longer period of time in the
detail shop.
Mr. Green stated no. He noted that if any kind of short term storage is required there are 17
parking spaces available.
Commissioner Krug asked if the detention is part of this parcel or owned by someone else.
Mr. Green stated the detention is not part of the site but is part of the allowable use for the site
based on an agreement with the Lake County Department of Transportation. The agreement also
provides that the petitioner will take over maintenance of the detention facility.
Commissioner Krug asked if the readings of the Schaumburg car wash were recorded and played
back.
Mr. Homans stated no. He stated they took measurements at the car wash site and then counted
off the same distance from the blower to the nearest property line. He noted the calculations are
based on accepted methods used over many years and sound engineering principles.
Commissioner Krug asked if there have been any comparisons made of what was formerly
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 5
approved on the site and the proposed use.
Mr. Lindgren stated the former proposal for a shopping center of approximately 20,000 square
feet would generate more cars at peak hours than the proposed use.
Commissioner Howard noted that attendants at other car washes seem to have a policy of
honking car horns to make cars move up or to notify people that their cars are ready. She also
noted that sport utility vehicles apparently need to be driven through the system and the
attendants honk to get the attention of the proper attendants.
Mr. Green stated there are many systems available and it need not necessarily be so.
Commissioner Howard asked how the berming would help mitigate the noise of honking horns.
Mr. Homans stated he is not able to state that car horns would not be heard.
Mr. Freedman suggested making this a condition of operation.
Commissioner Howard noted the projections show approximately 60,000 to 85,000 cars will be
needed to make this project viable. She asked if a White Hen facility generates this much traffic.
Mr. Green noted that compared to a 25,000 square foot grocery store which is allowable under
the original plan would be much more intense.
Commissioner Howard asked if the road improvements suggested by Mr. Carmignani will be
complied with.
Mr. Green stated yes.
Commissioner Howard asked if the petitioner is responsible for making road improvements on
Old Weiland Road going toward Depot.
Mr. Green stated there is now the addition of a third lane to the plan for left turns on Old
Weiland. In addition to that they have added an additional 180 feet of opportunity for exiting the
site with the new configuration. Every opportunity has been provided to give people an easy and
safe way to get in and out of the development.
Commissioner Samuels was concerned with the issue of payment for the proposed traffic light at
Thompson and Weiland Road. He noted the ice rink facility will be paying part of the traffic light.
He asked what the status of the warrant study for that traffic light is and how much traffic from
this proposed development would affect this kind of traffic light.
Mr. Lindgren stated the warrant study has not been done. He stated the Ice Partners are currently
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 6
working with the County in connection with their final plans. He stated the affect on anticipated
traffic from this proposed development is about 20 percent but this traffic is existing traffic. This
type of facility gets as much as 40 percent of its traffic from existing traffic. The peak for this
facility it would mean about 30-40 cars added to existing Weiland traffic.
Commissioner Samuels asked what percentage the Ice Partners is paying towards the traffic light.
Mr. Kuenkler stated it is one half the cost of the light and the rest will be paid by the Village.
Commissioner Samuels noted there may be a possibility for potential contribution to the traffic
light by the petitioner.
Mr. Freedman stated they believe the impact from this site on a traffic light would be insignificant.
However, if the impact is shown to be greater, they would be willing to discuss the subject
further.
Commissioner Lundine asked where cars will pay for the car wash.
Mr. Green stated people will pay for the car wash prior to vacuuming. He noted there are several
opportunities for turn arounds to get out if someone changes their mind about the car wash.
Commissioner Lundine asked if there is any room for expansion of the office area.
Mr. Green stated no.
Commissioner Lundine asked if construction will include both buildings at the same time.
Mr. Green stated construction may be staggered but they hope to do both together.
Commissioner Lundine asked what would happen if the commercial building became a medical
building.
Mr. Green stated the building would then be downsized as the site as configured contains only 21
cars which would create a limit.
Commissioner Trilling asked about the type of drying system to be used.
Mr. Jeff Meyers of Hoffman Services stated all vehicles will be towel dried and they are currently
looking at several different systems, such as stainless steel blowers and bag blowers, but one has
not yet been chosen.
Commissioner Trilling asked what the difference is between a steel blower and a bag blower.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 7
Mr. Meyers stated the steel blower is just the type of material the blower is made out of and the
bag blower consists of bags which hang down and direct the air close to the vehicle.
Commissioner Trilling asked if the systems similar or different in their decibel ratings.
Mr. Meyers stated all systems currently are under the same levels. What changes is in the field
and depends on the kind of building, what it is constructed of, the acoustics and such. All systems
offer additional sound deadening devices if needed for a particular building.
Mr. Green stated they are aware that sound is perceived to be the single biggest issue to the
adjacent residences. Therefore, they intend to be a good member of the community and do all
that is necessary, although the Village has no standards to follow.
Mr. Pfeil stated the Industrial District is the only district that has actual table of decibel levels. If
the use is abutting another Industrial commercial use the maximum decibel level at the property
line can be 79 decibels. If it is abutting residential use, 72 decibels is the maximum.
Commissioner Trilling asked where the blowers will be located.
Mr. Green stated they will be 25 feet back from the exit door. The tunnel has actually been
lengthened over the course of the various meetings.
Commissioner Trilling asked where the blower was located at the Rolling Meadows facility.
Mr. Homans stated it too was located 25 feet from the door.
Commissioner Trilling asked how long it would take to dry a car using only one person.
Mr. Meyers stated it would take 2-3 minutes.
Commissioner Trilling stated he is trying to find out how many cars will be exiting and how long
to dry windows and such and if there will be any kind of problems created.
Mr. Meyers stated the line speed of the wash can be controlled by management.
Chairman Goldspiel asked what the architecture will be like.
Mr. Green stated they have no plans as yet but it will probably be of pre-cast masonry.
Chairman Goldspiel noted the bikepath does not extend past the detention area. He asked about
the area where the vehicles exiting the drying area meet vehicles heading towards the vacuuming
area. He noted this area goes from one lane inbound to two lanes inbound. He asked how traffic
will be controlled at this point.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 8
Mr. Green stated this will be controlled by striping.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if there are any car washes located anywhere other than state highways.
Mr. Meyers stated there is one in Highland Park, Schaumburg and on Wilke Road.
Chairman Goldspiel asked for an explanation of the variation on the wall and why it is necessary.
Mr. Vane stated the development ordinance calls for a 4:1 side slope typically on a detention area
so if a timber wall or landscaped wall is desired it requires a variation.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if essentially the noise from the blower will be heard or not.
Mr. Homans stated it will be hard to hear the blowers due to the newer versions of blowers,the
shielding and the berming. There may, however, be times when the blowers will be heard if traffic
is very slow in the area.
Chairman Goldspiel asked what difference the sound absorption devices will make.
Mr. Homans stated during operation you would not be able to hear the blowers with sound
deadening devices.
Commissioner Krug asked how this plan compares in height and mass to the 1990 approved plan.
Mr. Green stated the two plans are verysimilar in height.
Commissioner Lundine asked if the commercial building will have roof air conditioners.
Mr. Green stated yes and further noted there will be exhaust coming out from the car wash.
Mr. Jeff Markowitz, 211 Stanton Dr., stated he was asking questions on behalf of the JCYS. He
asked how many lanes of traffic will be provided on Old Weiland Road.
Mr. Lindgren stated Old Weiland Road will have two exiting lanes and a single inbound lane.
This is the same configuration which was provided for the child care center.
Mr. Markowitz asked if these lanes will line up with the approved configuration for the JCYS.
Mr. Lindgren stated there will have to be some modifications made but the lanes will line up.
Mr. Markowitz asked what improvements are being made to Weiland Road at the Old Weiland
Road intersection.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 9
Mr. Lindgren stated they will have to add the striping for the left turn lane for southbound traffic
to turn left and they will need to provide a right turn lane on Weiland. All of these are required by
the County.
Mr. Markowitz asked what the impact will be to left turning movements out of the JCYS site
onto northbound Weiland Road from traffic coming out of Weiland Road headed westbound.
Mr. Lindgren stated people coming out of the child care center will not perceive much difference.
That is because the primary impact on left turn movements is the result of the through traffic on
Weiland. He noted they anticipated the movements from the child care center on the proposed
plan and analyzed them along with the movements to be generated by this facility to be sure no
problems occurred.
Mr. Markowitz asked if the capacity of the sewer takes into consideration the entire JCYS
development.
Mr. Vane stated yes.
Dr. Keith Rothenberg, 254 Stanton Court, stated the car wash he uses on the weekends is very
crowded and is backed up quite a bit. The peaks for this facility will be on Saturday and Sunday
mornings. The resulting backup in traffic will certainly use Thompson Drive which is already
crowded with leagues. This is not the spot for this kind of facility. This kind of facility will be
much better on Lake Cook and Weiland Road. The property values adjacent to a car wash will
certainly diminish. He further noted the noise level and car emissions will be high. He noted it
may be a good idea to have an environmental study done.
Mr. David Rapoport, 1517 Madison Court North, asked what the decibel level was up close at the
car wash in Rolling Meadows.
Mr. Homans stated it was 72 dBA at 50 feet away.
Mr. Rapoport noted a busy car wash had not been tested to see what noise levels are thrown off.
He noted the type of equipment to be used had not been decided as yet which made any noise
testing somewhat uncertain
Mr. Homans stated the newer blowers all were rated about the same sound level and his tests
were conducted on an older, louder car wash.
Mr. Jeff Schwartzman, 262 Stanton Court, asked how many cars can be stacked waiting to get
into the car wash.
Mr. Green stated 22 cars.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 10
Mr. Schwartzman stated the Delta Sonic car wash is always backed up and he wonders where
cars here will be able to go. He stated he feels there will be too much traffic with the
development of the ice rink and the JCYS center.
Mr. Green noted the traffic study had recommended a minimum stacking of 20 cars and with the
revised plan they can now stack 30 cars.
Mrs. Gina Sheade, 1520 Madison Drive, noted the day care peak hours tend to be before and
after work which is the same time the trains will be coming in and bringing considerable traffic.
The ice rink too will conflict with the weekend and late afternoon peaks. There has been no
mention of the combined traffic impact on all these facilities. She stated that nobody really knows
what this facility will sound like when it is there and running. There has also been no further
mention of lighting. She stated air pollution from exhausts will be high and there will be a day
care center on this site which no one has addressed. Property values will be affected. She also
noted the economic viability of this project has not been discussed and if this project is not
successful it will become a white elephant. She further noted there has been interest shown by
Amoco in the property at Lake Cook and Route 83 for a car wash as well as other interest shown
in car washes. She asked what kind of impact other developments would have on this project.
Chairman Goldspiel noted the kind of car washes attached to gas stations are different from the
proposed plan.
Mr. Lindgren stated the general buildup of traffic has been taken into account. Specifics of the
commuter station have not been entered into the data. General traffic growth is about 3 percent
per year and that has been added to the traffic data. Traffic from the child day care definitely was
added into the data as it was anticipated. The 120 or 140 cars that the car wash will generate
have been taken into account and they do not occur at the same times as peaks on the highway
system. They had looked at the volumes that would be generated by the facility that has been
approved already. It is important to understand that on a Saturday morning or afternoon a retail
facility of the kind approved would generate a great deal more traffic than this car wash in any
one hour. In terms of the exhaust from stopped cars one must take into consideration that there
are several hundred cars stopped here at every single traffic cycle. By comparison, the number of
cars waiting to get into the car wash is insignificant.
Mr. Freedman stated this property is zoned as B-1 and not residential. Half of the site will still be
zoned B-1 and they believe that the development of a car wash on part of the property as B-4 will
have no different impact on property values whatsoever than with the development of a
commercial site. It may even have a lesser impact, inasmuch as the commercial site would have a
much greater impact on traffic and the surrounding property.
Mr. Freedman indicated a number of national car washes have contacted the petitioner regarding
management of the proposed facility. They all seem to feel it is definitely a viable enterprise. The
amount of money the petitioner is willing to invest in this project suggests that they believe the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 11
project is absolutely viable. This property has sat for quite some time and has shown that it is not
viable as a B-1 use.
Mrs. Sheade stated the purpose of zoning is to control land use and to provide orderly
development of land in a community. Considering the changes going on in the community
recently, this whole area deserves a fresh look. There is a potential for this area to become both
an aesthetic and a functional disaster area. Downgrading the zoning of this parcel to allow a car
wash is not a step in the right direction.
Andrea Rapoport, 1517 Madison Court, stated she is concerned with the pedestrian traffic by
children using the ice rink as well as the child care center. She further noted concern over the
impact of the railroad crossing and its impact on traffic on Weiland.
Mr. Lindgren stated the backup will be pretty much the same as it is today. With the Metra line
coming the traffic light hookup to the railroad crossing will be looked at extensively.
Peggy Cobrin, 1525 Madison Court North, noted a car wash will add to the morning traffic
crunch since it will be opened at 7:00 a.m. The environmental issue is a real concern. She stated
that she is not sure what all these new developments will bring to the area, so why build a car
wash there now.
Jay Oberider, 393 Thompson, noted there has been no traffic study on the impact on Thompson.
Mr. Freedman stated the study takes into account the areas where it is felt traffic will be coming
from.
Mr. Oberider stated he does not want the car wash nor the additional cars coming down
Thompson. He further noted a slow moving train will back up traffic and will cause cars to exit
out of Depot and take shortcuts out of the car wash.
Mr. Lindgren stated that when a train goes by, everything stops generally.
Carl Weiss,1504 Quaker Hollow Court North, noted the traffic data used is 2-3 years old. The
area has gone through a tremendous change in recent years and a 3 percent traffic increase may
not be sufficient input. He further stated he cannot believe no noise will be heard. Honking horns
is a common practice in car washes to make sure people are not in the way. He also noted there
is a junior high school adjacent to the site with kids coming to play soccer and baseball on the
fields. Why sacrifice this corner to this kind of development when it could be a great asset to the
community. He asked that the zoning not be changed to accommodate Mr. Jacobs.
Harry Newman, 252 Stanton Court East, stated he recently went to a car wash where he waited
for 35 minutes and as he waited he had his windows down and listened to the radio at 7:00 a.m.
He wondered if anyone took this kind of noise into account.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 12
Michael Cummings, 1527 Madison Court North, asked if there is any other car wash on the north
shore which is within 350 feet from a residential area. He stated they will hear the blowers, the
horns and everything else. He noted you can even hear the cars going along Weiland Road
already.
Jim Gerali, 2031 Rand Road, stated he has developed and operated 30-35 car washes. This
project is a disaster both financially,traffic wise and economically. He noted alarm noise has not
been taken into account. He stated they get 10-12 cars a day that have the alarms go off when
customers forget to turn them off before they go into the car wash. He stated he gets 25 percent
of his business from Buffalo Grove residents as well as Village official cars. The reason he has
this business is because the car wash on Dundee Road closed up, as did several others because
they were financially unsuccessful. There will be new car wash developments on Milwaukee
Avenue and Route 22 and another two car washes coming in with gas stations on Lake Cook and
Buffalo Grove Road in Wheeling and another at Lake Cook and Weiland in Wheeling.
Mr. Gerali stated the whole thing should be developed at one time since it is a P.U.D. He stated
on busy days he leaves the blowers on all day long because it is more efficient than turning it on
and off. He stated using one many per car would take a minimum of 5 minutes per car, not the 2
minutes previously noted. He also noted the Turtle Wax car wash at Wilke Road is not doing
well. It takes 80,000 cars to break even on full service car washes. He noted his car washes can
stack 65 cars. On a good day 65 cars is insufficient. He stated he will do 1200-1300 cars on a
Saturday.
Wayne Neuman, 1531 Madison Court, stated it seems that this plan is intent on bringing in as
much traffic as possible to the area without even the authority to widen the road.
Mr. Pfeil stated Weiland Road is controlled by Lake County, and the County requires
developments to provide improvements on the road that are the direct result of that development.
Turn lanes are provided, and traffic capacity is increased for the road by specific developments in
proportion to the impact that is being created. The Village traffic study done in 1991 is consulted
and all the projections from each new land use are input into the model so that there is verification
that the traffic generated by each new development is within the overall long-range forecast in the
Village's transportation plan.
Mr. Neuman noted the studies used have been done on car washes located on main thoroughfares
and there is no study to base the viability of the development on. He noted the commercial
building has not been discussed very much nor the kind of uses to be allowed. This will also have
to be a viable use in order for the car wash to be successful. Being adjacent to the train and a car
wash may not make this building viable either.
David Rapoport noted that the only benefit to the community from this development would be tax
revenues. On the other hand the detriment of the noise level, safety concerns and a community
united in opposition to a plan must be considered. He asked that this application be tabled until
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 13
the 1996 Master Plan is reviewed.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the Commission is under legal requirements as to how much time is
required to act on proposals and the review of the Master Plan will take considerable time.
Mr. Freedman stated the reality is that this piece of property must be judged in the context of
what it is approved to be developed for at this time. It has always been B-1 which allows for far
more intense uses than this car wash. The testimony by the sound expert says the noise impact
will probably be negligible. He stated the impact from train whistles will be more intrusive than
anything generated by the car wash.
Mr. Freedman stated that have not only satisfied the traffic requirements of their consultants but
the Village consultant as well. This development will have a lesser impact on traffic and sound
than the previously approved plan. Over the years that this property and the one across the street
has been zoned B-1, they have not developed and other B-1 sites in the community have not
developed. He stated this is a viable use on this parcel.
There being no further comments or questions from anyone else present, Chairman Goldspiel
closed the public hearing at 10:45 p.m.
Respec lly sub tt ,
Fay ubin, e ording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
P N/S & 1rman
Li
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-January 10, 1996-Page 14
SPECIAL MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
January 10, 1996
Jacobs Homes, rezoning from the B-1 Limited Retail District
to the B-4 Business District for an auto laundry
and approval of a Planned Unit Development and
Preliminary Plan in the B-1 and B-4 Districts for
an auto laundry and commercial facility
Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 11:00 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Ms. Howard
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Trilling
Mr. Lundine
Mr. Ottenheimer
Commissioners absent: Mr. Berman
Also present: Mr. Lawrence M. Freedman, Ash, Anos,Freedman&Logan
Mr. Brian Homans, Shiner& Associates, Inc.
Mr. Gerald Lindgren, Kenig,Lindgren, O'Hara, Aboona, Inc.
Mr. John Green, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Richard Vane, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Keith Jacobs, Jacobs Homes
Mr. Jeff Meyers, Hoffman Services
Ms. DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee
Mr. William Raysa, Village Engineer
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Howard to approve the minutes
of the regular meeting of December 6, 1995. Commissioner Krug noted a change in language
needed on page 7, paragraph 6. All Commissioners were in favor of the amended motion and the
motion passed unanimously with Commissioner Lundine abstaining.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-January 10, 1996-Page 1
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Howard to approve the minutes
of the public hearing and special meeting of December 13, 1995. All Commissioners were in
favor of the motion and the motion passed unanimously with Commissioners Krug, Rosenston
and Lundine abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Rosenston attended the Village board meeting on January 8, 1996 stating the
following issues were discussed:
1. Approval was denied concerning the proposed Kid's Choice child care center playground
in the Town Center. •
2. The ECD Company presented a revised plan for the Aptakisic Sand and Gravel Company
property proposing a hotel, restaurants, a building for Second City/conference center, an
office building and a self-storage facility for phase 1, with three future phases including
retail, office and industrial uses. The new plan was referred to the Plan Commission.
3. A Zoning Ordinance amendment concerning hearings by the Village Board was
approved using Alternative#2 (not requiring prior hearings by the Plan Commission or
Zoning Board of Appeals).
JACOBS HOMES. REZONING FROM THE B-1 LIMITED RETAIL DISTRICT FOR AN
AUTO LAUNDRY, AND APPROVAL OF A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AND
PRELIMINARY PLAN IN THE B-1 AND B-4 DISTRICTS FOR AN AUTO LAUNDRY AND
COMMERCIAL FACILITY
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Trilling to recommend approval
by the Village Board of the petition for rezoning of Lot 1 as depicted on the Preliminary Plan
from the B-1 Limited Retail District to the B-4 Business Services and Wholesale District and
approval of a Planned Unit Development and Preliminary Plan for the entire Property as legally
described with the following variations: ZONING ORDINANCE: Section 17.12.455 - To allow a
Planned Unit Development of 1.6 acres instead of the minimum area of 4 acres;
DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE: Section 16.50.040.C.3.b.3 - To allow for landscaped wall
grade transitions instead of a 4-foot (horizontal)to 1-foot (vertical) slopes as depicted on the
Preliminary Engineering Plan for the construction of an automobile laundry of approximately
8,000 square feet on Lot 1 (in the B-4 District) and a commercial facility of approximately 5,200
square feet on Lot 2 (in the B-1 District) as depicted on the Preliminary Plan.
Chairman Goldspiel noted the following items which may be deemed necessary to add to the
motion:
1. Automobile horns not be used to direct employees or manage on-site traffic;
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-January 10, 1996-Page 2
2. Consideration of whether the development has impact on the traffic levels at
Thompson Boulevard and Weiland Road, and requiring a proportional contribution by the
developer for installation of a traffic signal;
3. Sound deadening devices around the blower to lessen noise;
4. Extension of the 8-foot wide sidewalk along Aptakisic Road to the border of the
stormwater detention area;
5. Hours of operation are to be only as presented at this hearing.
Commissioner Trilling stated it would be best to be specific about what is to be accomplished by
the sound deadening devices as this will make a difference in the kind of devices chosen.
Mr. Freedman stated they would be happy to meet with staff who can help to determine what type
of system may be necessary and preferable.
Commissioner Krug stated he feels the Village has the vehicle to control the noise level under the
Industrial ordinance.
Chairman Goldspiel noted he is concerned because the Industrial District maximum sound level is
72 decibels which is well above what anyone is projecting for this development.
Mr. Pfeil stated that there are no specific standards in Village ordinances concerning decibel levels
except for the Industrial zoning district. Village ordinances pertaining to sound generally use
performance language specifying that sound will not be offensive for properties adjacent to sites
where sound is generated. He noted that in reviewing the auto laundry use,the Building and
Zoning department would review the proposed mechanical equipment such as the blower, and if
necessary, a consultant with expertise in this area would analyze the blower specifications and
how sound can be mitigated. This type of detail won't be available until the building permit
review process is started. The P.U.D. ordinance probably would have to have language as defined
as possible with the intent of keeping sound on the property and no nuisance sound off the
property.
Commissioner Samuels suggested using a form of direction to staff which need not be worded
into the motion.
Commissioner Rosenston noted one of the proposed uses for the commercial building is an animal
hospital and asked if this would include overnight boarding.
Mr. Green stated yes, however, the difference between an animal hospital and a kennel is that an
animal hospital is an interior function.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-January 10, 1996-Page 3
Commissioners Rosenston and Trilling accepted the above items to be added to the motion.
Commissioner Rosenston noted some concerns with traffic flows on Old Weiland Road and
Depot Place. He also noted continued concern with noise levels. However, the intensity of the
development previously approved could be just as bad with regard to both noise and traffic. He
stated that noise from will be more intrusive than this development. He stated the traffic impact
will not be as bad as suggested as the heaviest use will be on Saturdays and Sundays and there
will be no backups on those days due to other traffic or trains. He also did not see traffic cutting
through the neighborhood to get to the car wash. He noted that in the mornings and evenings
people are only interested in getting to work and then getting home.
Commissioner Lundine stated this car laundry belongs on Rand Road or Milwaukee Avenue, not
here. This development is too intense a use for this area.
Commissioner Howard concurred with Commissioner Lundine. She noted that peak times will be
Friday, Saturday and Sunday, making it inevitable that the noise from the car wash will be heard
and will be an impact on the neighborhood.
Chairman Goldspiel stated that the plan as originally presented was not acceptable. The revised
plan, however, is desirable. He stated he was convinced by the testimony of the sound expert that
the sound can be controlled so that it will not be objectionable to the neighborhood. This,
however, is conditioned upon operation only within the hours prescribed. He stated this is
definitely a commercial use area. It has a corner to corner exposure and there is no use other than
some kind of commercial that would be appropriate here. He stated that the economic viability of
the development is up to the individual who is risking their capital and making investment
decisions.
Commissioner Samuels stated he concurred with Chairman Goldspiel. He noted Weiland Road is
due for expansion as is Aptakisic Road. He stated this area on the east side of Weiland Road has
is blighted the proposed development will be another step in improving the area.
Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and motion was as follows:
AYES: Krug, Rosenston, Samuels, Trilling, Ottenheimer, Goldspiel
NAYES: Howard, Lundine
ABSENT: Berman
ABSTAIN: None
The motion passed 6 to 2.
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated there will be meetings on January 17, 1996 and January 24, 1996.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-January 10, 1996-Page 4
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS -None
STAFF REPORT -None
NEW BUSINESS -None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Trilling and carried unanimously
to adjourn. Chairman Goldspiel adjourned the meeting at 11:35 p.m.
Res ctfully sub ed,
Fa Rubi R cording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
P N GOLDSPIEL, hairman
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-January 10, 1996-Page 5