1995-12-13 - Plan Commission - Minutes SPECIAL MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
December 13, 1995
Zoning Ordinance-Amendment of Section 17.64.010,
Public Hearings by the Village Board
Shires Construction Co., proposed rezoning from B-3 to R-9
P.U.D. and approval of a Preliminary Plan for 152
Condominium units, northwest corner of
Dundee Road/Weidner Road -Workshop#1
Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 8:00 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Ms. Howard
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Berman
Mr. Ottenheimer
Mr. Trilling
Commissioners absent: Mr. Krug
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Lundine
•
Also present: Mr. Marc Schwartz, Marc Schwartz& Associates
Mr. John Green, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Richard Vane, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Robert Barrett Jr., Shires Construction Co
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Ottenheimer, seconded by Commissioner Trilling to approve the
minutes of the regular meeting of November 15, 1995. Chairman Goldspiel noted a
typographical error on page 11. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion as amended and
the motion passed unanimously with Commissioner Howard abstaining.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 1
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Howard stated she attended the Village board meeting on December 11, 1995 and
noted the following items were addressed:
1. Approval of a motion for reconsideration of the Kid's Choice Day Care Center in Town
Center which was then set for January 8, 1996
2. Referral of the Boznos property to the Plan Commission with issues concerning flood
plain engineering, concerns of school district 102 and 103, density, effect on park district
3. Referral to the Plan Commission of the Siegle property, rezoning from B-4 to B-3 for a
proposed Crate and Barrel outlet
CONSIDERATION OF AMENDMENT TO SECTION 17.64.010 -REVIEW AUTHORITY
OF THE BUFFALO GROVE ZONING ORDINANCE CONCERNING PUBLIC HEARINGS
BY THE CORPORATE AUTHORITIES
Moved by Commissioner Ottenheimer, seconded by Commissioner Howard to adopt Alternative
#1 to amend Section 17.64.010 which includes subsections A and B.
Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: Howard, Berman, Ottenheimer, Trilling, Goldspiel
NAYES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Krug, Rosenston, Lundine
The motion passed 5 to 0.
SHIRES CONSTRUCTION CO., PROPOSED REZONING FROM B-3 TO R-9 P.U.D. AND
APPROVAL OF PRELIMINARY PLAN FOR 152 CONDOMINIUM UNITS.NORTHWEST
CORNER OF DUNDEE ROAD/WEIDNER ROAD -WORKSHOP #1
Mr. Marc Schwartz stated the Shires Construction Company is the contract purchaser of the
proposed parcel. The site is approximately 6.85 acres and the plan consists of approximately 152
units for which an R-9 zoning is being sought. He stated two plans were submitted to the Village
Board and the Board expressed a preference for Plan B which is being presented to the Plan
Commission.
Mr. John Green stated the site is currently zoned B-3 and under the Comprehensive Plan it is
designated as offices. The land to the north and east is currently zoned and developed as R-9
Special Use. To the west, the land is open space currently developed as park site. To the south,
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 2
the land is commercial and the entrance to the single family Mill Creek subdivision.
Mr. Green stated they originally presented two plans to the Trustees for consideration. Plan B
consists of four buildings with three buildings of 40 units and one building of 32 units. This
particular plan allowed for all of the buildings to front on a street and allowed for a second
outflow point at the west end of the site. The overall coverage for buildings on this plan was 23
percent and the open space area was approximately 50 percent. This is the plan the Trustees
referred to the Plan Commission. Some of the comments made in their referral included:
1. Height should be consistent with the zoning and should work with existing surrounding
development
2. Consider sinking the parking, if necessary, in order to help accomplish height restraint
3. Eliminate or break up the sea of parking running along Weidner Road
4. Increase green space along Weidner and particularly at the corner of Dundee and Weidner
5. Concern with the southernmost building along Dundee Road and the streetscape to
Dundee as well as a second access being absolutely necessary for a development of this
scale
Mr. Green stated there are several factors and constraints which must be considered. These
include the Comprehensive Plan which established an intended office use and that establishes an
intensity. A second consideration to the site is the fact the Weidner Road is a divided road for
one third of the length of the site. The location of Hapsfield and its ability to serve as a location
point for access to and from this site is a consideration. The dead end condition which exists at
Stradford Circle is another consideration for the site, as is the fact that there is a park west of the
site. In addition the shape of the site is crucial as is the fact that there is existing detention on the
site which services more than just this site. The grading differential is very important and
extensive at this site.
Mr. Green stated the proposed plan responds to some of the Trustees' concerns. He noted they
wanted to focus on the natural grading of the site, the access to the site, circulation, and safety
considerations. This plan now composes 152 units in four buildings, four stories over parking,
three buildings with 40 units per building and one building with 32 units. The density is 22.19
units per acre. R-9 zoning allows for 24.2 units per acre. Chatham is also about 20 units per
acre. The coverage on this plan for buildings is 20.1 percent. The height is 51 feet with R-9
zoning allowing 45 feet and office allowing 50 feet. The parking has a total of 302 spaces. 150
spaces are outside and 152 spaces are inside. The zoning requirement is 259 spaces. 88 of the
units are two bedroom units, 64 of the units are end units. The two bedroom units are 1180
square feet and approximately 1500 square feet for the two bedrooms with dens.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 3
Mr. Green stated the parking configuration has been broken up and spread over the site. There is
no sea of parking along Weidner any longer. This has been accomplished by shifting the buildings
around significantly. The closest parking comes to Weidner is 20 feet. They have reconfigured
the southeastern parking layout so that it now has a circular traffic pattern. This allows them to
put the most compact layout of parking in the squarest most compact available portion of the site
and allows for plenty of space for berming, screening and grade transition. 71 of the 150 outdoor
parking spaces are at the southeast part of the site. 79 spaces are at the north and northwest part
of the site.
Mr. Green stated that vehicle outflow to the west has now been moved to the south end of
Stradford Circle. This allows for additional on street parking on Stradford. It also helps with
safety and emergency ingress and egress as the site can flow from two points. Each of the
buildings now has direct access to its entries from a dropoff point along the driveway flow. Each
building now has been further removed from the other buildings. The entry point now shows two
lanes out and one lane in with a center landscaped island. There is more stacking area as there are
no driveways or parking spaces at this point.
Mr. Green noted the detention area will remain in the same area although it will be reconfigured.
A walkway through the site will be continuous from Dundee Road, through the site and around
the detention out to Stradford Circle.
Mr. Richard Vane stated the existing detention is a combined detention area used for much of the
Chatham subdivision. The pond was sized for two office buildings originally and will therefore
not require any more detention volume. The detention will merely need reconfiguration. Sanitary
sewer and water are readily available.
Mr. Schwartz noted the design team and developer have given a great deal of thought to the
comments made by the Board as well as the impact on the surrounding uses. This plan reflects
the sensitivity in addressing the concerns of the Board.
Commissioner Berman asked if Mr. Rohrman has an interest in this project.
Mr. Schwartz stated Mr. Rohrman is a title holder to the property. Shires Construction Company
is a contract purchaser.
Commissioner Berman asked if this is in some way a settlement proposal to the village.
Mr. Schwartz stated as litigation is currently pending it would be improper to discuss same at a
public forum.
Commissioner Berman asked how the developer justifies going to 22 units per acre.
Mr. Schwartz stated the R-9 requirement is 24 units per acre. The surrounding properties are all
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 4
somewhere between 19 and 21 units per acre and therefore there is no necessity to have a P.U.D.
at the site. He stated they feel they can address this site without a P.U.D. He stated they will be
looking for an R-9 Special Use zoning. If the Commission or the Board feels that an R-9 P.U.D.
is required, they will ask for that P.U.D. with the required densities as set forth.
Commissioner Berman asked why the zoning would be an R-9 Special Use.
Mr. Green stated it could be a straight R-9, however, the special use section of the zoning allows
for uses entirely private in character but of such an unusual measure that their operation may give
rise to unique problems with respect to their impact. He noted that R-9 Special Use is probably
the more appropriate zoning because the surrounding zonings are also R-9 Special Use.
Mr. Pfeil stated there are specific uses that can be authorized as special and one of them is
residential planned unit development and that is where you get back to the special use part of the
zoning ordinance where the P.U.D. standards are set forth at 12 and 15 units per acre.
Commissioner Berman asked how many variances and what type would be needed in order to
accomplish R-9 zoning on this parcel.
Mr. Schwartz stated there would be a multitude of variations required to obtain true R-9 zoning
on this parcel. He stated the petitioner is looking for a certain density and whether it is called a
P.U.D. or straight R-9 with a multitude of variations, they are addressing the actual use on the site
as it needs to be developed to support the kind of residential that the surrounding parcels have.
Commissioner Berman asked what the minimum density is as required by the petitioner in order to
make the property support the project.
Mr. Schwartz stated they have requested 152 units and there is some but a very minimal amount
of latitude.
Commissioner Berman stated this plan should be a P.U.D. but it should have more of a P.U.D.
character. It should present some amenities that are more characteristic of same. He
recommends a density on the order of 120 units to be accomplished by eliminating the
southernmost building entirely, sliding the next building about 50 feet south and correspondingly
slide the building around the curve down which will give you enough room to make another 40
unit building out of the 32 unit building. This will provide more open space and allows for the
provision of amenities. He further suggested eliminating 70 plus parking spaces from the outside
and lowering the parking under the building, therefore lowering the roof line. This would make it
more in keeping with the character of the area and would lower the impact in the area. He further
stated this is all said in the context that he does not see this site as a residential parcel but rather a
commercial parcel.
Commissioner Samuels asked for more specifics on the density of this plan compared to those of
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 5
the surrounding complexes.
Mr. Green stated the Chatham subdivisions have densities of 19.13 and 20.1. Grove Terrace is
also around 19-20 units per acre.
Commissioner Samuels asked what the math would work out to if this project had the same
density.
Mr. Green stated it would work out to somewhere between 134 to 144 units.
Commissioner Samuels asked if there are any other developments within the Village that carry the
same density that is being requested for this parcel.
Mr. Green stated he has not done an analysis of Cambridge on the Lake but that would be the one
that would probably be comparable.
Mr. Pfeil stated that Cambridge on the Lake is about 20.1 units per acre. He further noted the
current P.U.D. standards in the zoning ordinance are not as old as some of the developments
being spoken of now. When talking about Cambridge or Chatham or some of the others, they are
older than the current ordinance which is why you see densities of the kind noted by Mr. Green.
Additionally, the housing on the east side of Weidner Road is not the same density as it is more of
a manor home type of development.
Commissioner Samuels asked if there are any similar densities in nearby areas.
Mr. Green stated there are some areas in Arlington Heights.
Commissioner Samuels asked for some information on comparable density subdivisions.
Commissioner Samuels asked for traffic figures for trip generation from this as a residential
property as opposed to an office complex or the proposed car dealership.
Mr. Schwartz noted that the figures will show the auto dealership is a less intensive use.
Commissioner Samuels stated he would like to know the difference in traffic impact it makes if
the density were in the range of 19 to 20 units per acre versus the 22 units per acre.
Commissioner Samuels asked if there have been any comments from the school district.
Mr. Green stated no.
Mr. Pfeil stated there have been no comments although he will be soliciting that input for the next
workshop.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 6
Commissioner Samuels asked if there are any apartment plans as yet.
Mr. Green stated one of the things that will be interesting on the site is the grade fall. He stated
they can sink the garages and still have it work with the natural overland flow and the fact that
Dundee and Stradford are much higher roads.
Mr. Green stated 58 percent of the units will be a straight two bedroom unit of 1080 square feet.
He stated they have tried to develop units which will have two bathrooms, large living, dining,
`./ kitchen areas that have two good bedrooms. All units will conform to the standards of the Fair
Housing Act and the public areas of the buildings will conform to the ADA standards.
Commissioner Samuels asked what kind of impact the residences might have on the schools.
Mr. Green stated they will have to look at comparable developments and find out what kind of
formulas are applicable for the school district as well as the Park District.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the developer has determined what kind of market this
development will appeal to.
Mr. Green stated the size and scale of the units will appeal primarily to empty nesters.
Commissioner Samuels asked if there is an available site plan that takes into account the
orientation and height of the surrounding residential structures.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the parking is sufficient for guest parking.
Mr. Green stated the required parking is 1.7 spaces per unit and the plan calls for 1.99 per unit.
Commissioner Samuels asked what will be done with the detention.
Mr. Green stated they will be redeveloping the detention. They are working to minimize buildings
placed on what is current detention. Soil tests on non-detention areas are very good. They would
prefer to work on soil that is already pre-compacted and settled.
Commissioner Ottenheimer asked what the price range for the units might be.
Mr. Barrett stated the cost will be about $120 per square foot.
Mr. Green stated that puts it in the $135,000 to $165,000 range.
Commissioner Ottenheimer asked if there is any covered parking.
Mr. Green stated all of the outside parking is open.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 7
Commissioner Trilling asked if the petitioner could provide some information on the differences in
tax generation between the residential and commercial uses.
Commissioner Trilling asked about the patios and/or terraces.
Mr. Green stated the units will have terraces that will be 3 to 4 feet up above grade to enhance
security.
Commissioner Trilling asked for an analysis of the parking that is available for the proposed plan
in comparison to similar surrounding developments. He also asked for comparisons of building
setbacks in comparable developments to the proposed plan.
Commissioner Trilling noted that enhanced storage space should be looked into.
Commissioner Trilling asked what the change is between the high water line and the normal water
line.
Mr. Vane stated it is about 4 - 4 1/2 feet. He stated there will probably be a 4:1 slope and then a
safety ledge and then another 4:1 slope. The safety ledge would be a 12 foot wide, virtually flat
slope.
Commissioner Trilling asked if all parking areas will be curbed.
Mr. Green stated that was correct and there will be a walkway all along to service the entire
subdivision.
Commissioner Howard asked if they are planning for any recreational amenities.
Mr. Green stated it is a tight site but it is also next to a park.
Commissioner Howard stated it is not an active use park but rather for the high school.
Mr. Schwartz stated there is an active use park on the north side of Weidner Road.
Chairman Goldspiel stated it would be useful to show where that park is located.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he is very enthusiastic about this proposal. He stated this is absolutely
the right use for this property. He noted it fits in very nicely with the surrounding area. He noted
the vast majority of the major issues have been addressed under Plan B. He stated the density
issue does not pose a verygreat threat. He noted there is a growing need for this type of unit and
it fills a need for this size unit in the Village.
Chairman Goldspiel further stated he did not want to load this development with expensive
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 8
amenities which will raise the costs for people. There is an indoor swimming pool at the high
school and a large park area across the street on Weidner. This development integrates with the
neighborhood very well. It transitions from Chatham Place and the coach houses.
Chairman Goldspiel stated there is a Village owned area along the creek next to the Park District
park which is undeveloped. There seems a possibility of using some donation from this
development to develop that area in some beneficial manner rather than worrying about building
onsite amenities which will just duplicate what is available. A path to the Alcott Center, which
has programs which will directly benefit the people who are most likely to be living in this
development, would be ideal.
Mr. Green stated he is unsure what control a developer would have over the Park District. He
stated he would like to see the interconnection of many of the amenities that are isolated in the
Village by a few hundred feet is a shame and this would be a great opportunity to bring some of
that together. He stated he will talk to the Park District.
Chairman Goldspiel noted he hoped this development would not have the giant tie walls presently
on the Chatham townhomes. He asked where the inflow to the detention, which goes under
Dundee Road comes out.
Mr. Vane stated it comes out through an underground pipe.
Chairman Goldspiel noted it would be desirable to berm and screen the parking lots which still
front Weidner.
Chairman Goldspiel further noted that although a coach house may have a lower density but it is a
continuous strip of driveways. The proposed plan has parking underground, it is bermed and
landscaped and is much more attractive, notwithstanding the higher density.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if the facilities are adequate for this development.
Mr. Pfeil stated Mr. Kuenider has stated the facilities are adequate.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if there is access from the park to Stradford Circle.
Mr. Green stated even with this plan Stradford Circle is still under utilized and he will look into it.
Chairman Goldspiel further noted this type of unit is necessary for the Village in order to maintain
a variety of choices for residents. He stated that it would be desirable to get the density down to
perhaps 20 units per acre which will match what has already been done.
Commissioner Berman stated that Chatham was a mistake and that its density is too high and
would not be in favor of matching density. He said 20 units is too high given all the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 9
circumstances in this Village and all the problems with the infrastructure such as schools and
roads.
Commissioner Samuels noted this development almost requires this kind of density in order to
preserve this kind of price range.
Chairman Goldspiel noted he would prefer to stay with the price rather than losing two units per
acre if such a tradeoff is necessary.
Commissioner Trilling asked what the overall objective of this plan should be.
Commissioner Berman stated he feels the impact of additional people within the community
should be lessened. He further noted he would like to go to a three building site so that you can
create more open space, more buffering, more green space and berming. He also stated that he
appreciates that there is an economic aspect to all of these tradeoffs. However, the Village must
look at the issue of overdevelopment which has created an enormous strain on the infrastructure
and we are living with the strain every day.
Mr. Green stated the site comes with baggage. Only the developer knows all the ramifications
and what they can live with. He stated he will be looking at what is a reasonable number of units
to remove for the buildings to make the buildings and parking work on the site.
Mr. Schwartz stated they can certainly remove some units but not an entire building. On behalf of
the developer, there can be only a minimal reduction in density.
Chairman Goldspiel noted that one of the things that makes this an attractive site for a high
quality residential development is the highway access. The school district issue is much less of a
q tY P g Y
problem for District 21 which has a much better tax base than some of the other school districts in
the area. The high school has the capacity for more children at this point and the commercial
areas could use additional customers.
Commissioner Samuels stated the fundamental question here is the use question. He stated the
density issue is within ten percent of what is surrounding the property. It makes no sense to ask
for minuscule density changes. There must be some real rationale for requesting downsizing. If
this development will have a significant impact on traffic or schools or anything else, then there is
a reasonable need for downsizing.
Commissioner Berman stated he is talking about eliminating an entire building and not just a few
units. He stated his rationale for that is site aesthetics and because of the value that is allowed
under the zoning ordinance. He stated a decision should not be based on a mistake that was
previously made. 21 units per acre was a mistake for Chatham and it does not need repeating.
Chairman Goldspiel stated Chatham was not a mistake. It is one of the finest developments in the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 10
Village.
Mr. Schwartz stated the following items will need to be addressed at the next workshop:
1. Traffic study on a dealership compared to the prior approved commercial use
2. Traffic to be generated by the site and compared to either 19 acres per unit or 22 acres per
unit
3. Comparison with other sites of comparable density and any school impact
4. Park donation
5. Line of site drawings
6. Review of property tax generation and the difference between commercial zoning and
residential zoning
7. Compare setbacks used at similar density sites
8. Adjacent park locations and proximity to this site
9. Access to the school site
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT -None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated there will be a meeting on January 10, 1995.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS -None
STAFF REPORT -None
NEW BUSINESS -None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Berman, seconded by Commissioner Ottenheimer and carried
unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Goldspiel adjourned the meeting at 10:00 p.m.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 11
Respe lly submi ,
Fay ubin, ecording Secretary
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Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Special Meeting-December 13, 1995-Page 12