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1995-11-15 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION • November 15, 1995 Jacobs Homes, proposed rezoning from the B-1 Limited Retail District to the B-4 Business District and approval of a `./ Preliminary Plan for an automobile laundry and commercial building, southeast corner of Weiland Road/Aptakisic Road Workshop#3 Zoning Ordinance- Chapter 17.64 concerning hearings by the Village Board Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel Mr. Krug Mr. Samuels Mr. Berman Mr. Lundine Mr. Ottenheimer Mr. Trilling Commissioners absent: Ms. Howard Mr. Rosenston Also present: Mr. John Green, Systems Design Group Ltd. Mr. Richard Vane, Systems Design Group Ltd. Mr. Lawrence Freedman, Ash, Anos, Freedman& Logan Mr. Keith Jacobs, Jacobs Homes Mr. Rich Meyers Mr. Donald O'Hara, KLOA, Inc. Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney Mr. William Reid, Village Trustee Ms. DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner APPROVAL OF MINUTES Moved by Commissioner Lundine, seconded by Commissioner Ottenheimer to approve the minutes of the regular meeting of October 18, 1995. Commissioner Ottenheimer noted Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 1 typographical errors on pages 5 and 6. Commissioner Trilling noted a correction needed on page 6, paragraph 4. Chairman Goldspiel noted typographical errors on pages 9 and 12. All Commissioners were in favor of the amended motion and the motion passed unanimously with Chairman Goldspiel abstaining. COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS `./ Commissioner Trilling attended the Village Board meeting on November 6, 1995 and stated there was a pre-application conference held for a site on the northeast corner of Buffalo Grove Road and Lake Cook Road. The property involves the addresses of 15, 25, 35, 45 and 55 North Buffalo Grove Road. The Village Comprehensive Plan is for commercial development in the B-5 Town Center District. Walgreens is looking to occupy most of the site. A small parcel at the north end of the site will remain available for future use. The building will be about 13,900 square feet on a total of 3.1-acres. They are proposing a drive through window with two service lanes. The board's concerns are with the setbacks and landscaping. JACOBS HOMES, PROPOSED REZOING FROM THE B-1 LIMITED RETAIL DISTRICT TO THE B-4 BUSINESS DISTRICT AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN FOR AN AUTOMOBILE LAUNDRY AND COMMERCIAL BUILDING, SOUTHEAST CORNER OF WEILAND ROAD/APTAKISIC ROAD--WORKSHOP#3 Mr. Lawrence Freedman stated they have taken into account a number of comments made at the last workshop meeting. Mr. John Green of Systems Design Group, Ltd. stated the plan has now eliminated the request for a drive through facility and the plan now calls only for the auto laundry and a 10,000 square foot retail/commercial building. They have provided for stacking for vehicles of the car wash,by-pass opportunity at the north end of the facility, all parking for the entire site, a circular pattern traffic flow through the car wash, ingress and egress has been moved as far east as possible and the landscaping area has been increased to maximize the buffer at the southwest corner to a depth of approximately 35-36 feet. Mr. Green stated the question of moving the car wash to the north end of the site was asked at the last meeting. The plan now has the car wash facility at the north end and has been accomplished at some considerable cost. This new layout provides an additional 130-140 of onsite driveway which helps to answer any lingering concerns about stacking and overflow. Mr. Green stated the new layout eliminates concerns about the peak time traffic problems since additional traffic can now be on site because the peak times of the auto laundry would not be consistent with the peak times for use of an office/commercial facility. Mr. Green stated they retained Shiner& Associates, Inc. for their sound tests and provided them Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 2 with the plans and field tests which they reviewed. He stated they used conservative reduction factors in the sound, they looked at the reduction in sound that would be created over the distance between the rear yard of the most adjacent residence and where the car wash was when it was on the south end of the site. Their report concludes that at the rear yard there would be a decibel rating of 60.4 and the existing decibel rating was 58. They also indicate that the human ear does not discern differences of less than 3 decibels. Their conclusion is that after review of the October 10, 1995 report from Hoffman Services, "...operation of the car wash blower at the proposed site southeast of Weiland and Aptakisic Roads will provide negligible noise impact to surrounding residents." They also added, "The site is adjacent to railroad tracks and may serve to provide a buffer between rail operations and residences to the west." He noted they have now moved the building 100 feet further north from where this report was designed to measure. Mr. Green further pointed out that with the new plan, there is another building to act as a buffer. The landscaping has not been changed to the south and west of the facility. Mr. Green stated uses for the office/retail were reviewed according to the list of the B-1 allowable uses. Nineteen uses were deemed not viable for the site for the retail/commercial use at the north. With the relocation to the south, of those nineteen uses there are now three which could be viable which would be a drug store, bakery and delicatessen. Mr. Green stated the marketing report was perhaps confusing at the last workshop meeting. The average number of users per year is not the same as the amount needed to be viable. They had previously indicated that national statistics are that the average auto laundry has 65,000 users per year. The marketing report shows an assessment from various sources which concludes this site should generate 50,000-80,000 users per year. Many other items contribute to viability and the conclusion is that a good wash will do good at this site. Mr. Green stated detention is already provided in a strip of land to the east but it will need to be supplemented for this particular facility based on current standards and the best place to do that would be immediately adjacent to the existing detention. With the new layout there is more space immediately along the east line to allow for same. Mr. Green stated water and sanitary is not affected by whether the car wash is at the north or south so the ability to bring water and sewer onto and off the site is not affected by the plan. Mr. Green stated they are indicating a free standing sign at the south and the at the north they want to make sure that everyone will understand where to turn and how to access the site. Mr. Green stated they have created buffering to offset any blower noise. They have now enhanced the distance and have now provided another block with the development of the retail/commercial building to the south. Mr. Green stated they are now four spaces over the parking requirement. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 3 Mr. Donald O'Hara of KLOA, Inc., stated there is very little data available on car washes that are published. He stated the maximum ability of a car wash is about 120 vehicles per hour. This means the car wash itself can pump out a vehicle approximately every 30 seconds. This, however, is foolish. However, there are five vehicles in line that are going through. He stated they were looking at the highest volume for the car wash. During the peak hours that is not happening. Car washes normally hit their peak periods on a Friday evening and on Saturdays and Sundays. In addition, car washes are not open every day of the year. The car washes usually close down during inclement weather. Mr. O'Hara stated the peak periods for car washes are winter. Mr. O'Hara stated in Lake County it is necessary and required to provide a left turn lane into Old Weiland and if you have a specific volume of through movement going northbound it is required to provide a right turn. Mr. O'Hara stated there are only a couple of specific instances of disagreement with the Village traffic consultant. This concerns the driveway wherein the Village consultant asked for two lanes outbound and one lane inbound. He noted Old Weiland Road wraps around and goes into Depot Place. At this point there is a material service operation. He stated he would not anticipate people coming into the car wash and going out to the east and then going back south to go out at Depot Place to make their movement onto Weiland Road. He stated the movement will be primarily right turns to Weiland Road and therefore he does not see the need for putting in a three lane cross section for the driveway. Mr. O'Hara stated the other area of disagreement is at the Old Weiland Road and Weiland Road intersection. A child care facility is planned across the street which will provide two outbound lanes and one inbound lane. The driveway is skewed to Old Weiland Road. If two lanes are put in, the design of the left turn lane will not line up exactly. Mr. O'Hara further noted the retail/commercial building which is now on the south side is anticipated to house a medical office building generating a small amount of traffic in the neighborhood of 40 vehicles. During peak hours 10 vehicles would be going in and 30 vehicles out which is not a significant number and can certainly be handled within that facility. Commissioner Berman asked how many cars were computed to require stacking room. Mr. O'Hara stated he has not measured the area since the new plan. Mr. Green stated there is room to stack 22 cars. Commissioner Berman asked who would be responsible for actually managing this facility. Mr. Freedman stated they will hire professional and experienced people. Several car wash Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 4 associations have contacted Mr. Jacobs but no decision has yet been made. Commissioner Berman asked what the hours of operation would be. Mr. Green stated the latest hour scheduled would be 7:00 p.m. The marking information is based on having between 64-70 hours per week. They will probably be looking at 70-74 hours per week. It would be a maximum of 12 hour days during the week and Saturdays and Sundays would be shorter days. Commissioner Berman asked what would be the actual number of operating days for the facility in a given year. Mr. Green stated he anticipates about 80 inclement days per year in this area. So the number of days for operation is about 260-280 days. Commissioner Berman asked what the projected peak day usage would be for the facility. Mr. Green stated the peak day usage is based upon 120 cars per hour but in reality the number of peak days per year is estimated at about 15-18 peak days per year and those days are usually Saturday mornings. Commissioner Berman asked how many cars will be serviced on a peak day based on the marketing study. Mr. Green stated in a rush hour there could be 4-5 cars in the tunnel and there could be up to 18- 20 cars stacked. Commissioner Berman asked if there will ever be a peak hour independent of a peak day. Mr. Green stated it is possible to have a peak hour that is different from a peak day. Commissioner Berman stated he is concerned with those crunch days or hours that may occur. Mr. O'Hara stated he looked at the peak volume that could get through the conveyor system. The actual time if everything is perfect is about 21/2 minutes within the facility. Outside the facility the vacuuming line up and continual queue must be taken into account. He stated he anticipates hitting 100 vehicles per hour. There may be a crunch time on a Saturday of 2-3 hours. There may be durations of hour where the ques of vehicles extend back to the 20 car line. \./ Commissioner Berman stated that if you have 80-100 cars per hour going through the car wash there will be a continuous flow of cars in and out of the entrance. In that case, he asked if a street with 90 degree parking on both sides is a good idea at that spot. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 5 Mr. O'Hara stated that is not unusual and is seen all the time in many areas. Commissioner Berman asked if it would be a better practice to separate the traffic going to the car wash from the parking facility for the commercial use. Mr. O'Hara stated the way the plan is laid out traffic must go past the building parking in order to get to the car wash and this kind of traffic plan is not unusual. Commissioner Berman asked if the available space for stacking coming out of the facility heading towards Weiland Road is sufficient to hold about 10 cars. Mr. O'Hara stated it is capable of handling a little more than that with today's cars. Commissioner Berman asked what the average waiting time would be for a car trying to make a left turn movement onto Weiland Road during peak traffic time. Mr. O'Hara stated four vehicles can get out per signal cycle. The options are that you can go down by Depot Place. Commissioner Berman asked if engineering had been done for the new plan. Mr. Vane stated no. He further stated they have just started drafting the plans. However, the parking lot is still on the east side and the detention pond is still on the east side. The sanitary sewers are coming from the same place and the water main loop site is the same, although the catch basins may need to be slightly adjusted. Commissioner Berman asked how the water flows at the area adjacent to the car wash itself. Mr. Vane stated the water will be picked up and taken to the detention area and the area will be sloping away from the garage door to the catch basin so that no icing occurs. In addition, it will be heated asphalt outside the door. Commissioner Berman asked if there would be any kind of rumble strip outside the tunnel door to shake off water as suggested in the New England study. Mr. Green stated he is familiar with the report and the main 18 items suggested have been reviewed. 15 of the items are applicable to this particular facility although the average age of the facilities studied was fifteen years. He noted the proposed development complies with all but one of the items suggested. The only item not complied with was that the vacuuming was not placed at the exit end of the car wash. The reason for that is that this is a full service facility and the vacuuming is done by attendants at the beginning of the car wash. In addition, there will be an internal rumble strip to shake off water. The report further states the biggest problem with icing is at the exit of the driveway onto the public roads and recommends some provision for drainage Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 6 of the exit route. It will be drained, pitched and collected. Commissioner Berman stated he would like to see a clear delineation of what the drainage/catch basin program is for catching the drip water, clearly marked on the plan both internally and externally. Commissioner Berman asked what the orientation of the commercial building will be and what will be the anticipated facade to Old Weiland Road and Weiland Road. Mr. Green stated this building has three fronts. The south is a secondary front where parking is located and they will try to direct everyone to the south. They also intend to have a glass door on the south. The north will be solid to act as a buffer to the blower noises. Commissioner Berman asked for clarification of the potential exclusions from the B-1 list of uses and asked if there are any pending contracts for potential users of the facility. Mr. Green stated they are actively pursuing the marketing and leasing of the facility. There is interest for this facility. Commissioner Berman asked what manner of uses have expressed interest for this site. Mr. Green stated medical and dental uses are one of the viable options as well as a variety of interest by some office and retail uses. Commissioner Berman stated he would like to see a list of inclusions of uses for the public hearing. Commissioner Lundine asked who controls Old Weiland Road as it goes back to the Concrete Doctor facility. Mr. Pfeil stated it is basically unincorporated so Vernon Township would have authority as far as maintenance and repair. Commissioner Lundine asked if the road could be closed down if suddenly a lot of traffic from the car wash went that way. Mr. Pfeil stated there are business in the area that might preclude that from happening, although there could be some sort of regulatory restrictions on access. Commissioner Lundine stated he feels that if the traffic is busy people coming out of the car wash will use the back road. Mr. O'Hara stated Old Weiland may be used as an overflow road, although the road is not in Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 7 good repair. However, only peak traffic periods may be a problem and those hours usually do not generate a great deal of traffic through the car wash. During the busy Saturdays, the car wash may hit its peak periods and that is when the volumes on the adjacent major streets are lower than during the peak hours of the weekday. Adding a third lane to the driveway will not change anything. Commissioner Lundine asked if the JCYS entrance will line up with this proposed plan. `./ Mr. O'Hara states there is a slight skew right now but that will be adjusted and line up properly. Commissioner Trilling asked how many extra feet away was achieved by moving this plan to the south. Mr. Green stated approximately 100 feet is gained. The distance from the nearest residence is now 325 feet to the rear lot line and 80 feet from the rear lot line to the house point for a total distance of about 400 feet. Commissioner Trilling asked if the entry to the commercial building would be on the south side where a sidewalk is shown. Mr. Green stated yes. Commissioner Trilling asked if a crosswalk would be added through the paved area at the sidewalk location. Mr. Green stated such a crosswalk is already shown extending to the parking lot, but they are not anticipating a painted crosswalk. He stated a painted crosswalk is a requirement when you have disabled parking across a driveway. However, the disabled parking at this facility will be immediately adjacent to the building. Commissioner Trilling asked if there would be any advantage in making the stalls on the east side of the drive deeper so that pedestrians who might leave that sidewalk area and cross the street would not be hit from behind by oncoming cars. Mr. Green stated they have extended a walk along the entire west side of the parking facility and they have also programed that walk to be wider than the normal four foot walk so that even if there is car overhand there will still be sufficient walk width. Mr. O'Hara stated there is sufficient street distance without lengthening the stalls. However, it might be a good idea to add a yellow line down the parking bay to guide cars. In most cases, the wider a street becomes the more speed increases. Commissioner Trilling asked what the future development may be along Weiland. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 8 Mr. Pfeil stated the Comprehensive Plan designates the area south of this commercial site for industrial development. The triangular area between Weiland and Old Weiland south of the site is a stormwater detention area that will not be available for development. Commissioner Krug asked if the north wall on the commercial building will be blank and if so, could anything be added to absorb some of the sound. Mr. Green stated it would be solid of either dryvit or textured plaster finish. He stated that will deflect the sound in a variety of directions rather than a single direction. Commissioner Krug asked if it would be possible to put a stop sign in both directions at the point where the commercial parking lot goes into the auto laundry area. Mr. O'Hara stated he would recommend no stops unless it becomes an auto accident area. He stated they will study the internal circulation prior to a public hearing. Commissioner Lundine asked how trucks will get into the north end of the commercial building for deliveries and how does that affect traffic. Mr. Green stated even if the wall is solid it can still have an access door and that would probably be the best location for a service door. The north side of that building internally would also be the best site for mechanicals. Mr. O'Hara stated traffic will be affected depending on the use. If this is an office type of use, larger trucks would be used only for moving and normal deliveries would be by vans. Chairman Goldspiel stated refuse would probably also be stored there so the question is further complicated. Mr. O'Hara stated refuse usually happens in the early morning hours when the car wash is not operating so all of the pavement could be used. Other deliveries would depend on the kind of users for this commercial building. He stated for this size building it would be most unusual to get a large semi in for deliveries other than moving day. Commissioner Samuels asked about the Village traffic consultant's recommendation to have the car wash use at the north end of the site with the phase 2 use on the south. Mr. O'Hara stated that with the car wash at the south end and commercial to the north you end up with a dead end pocket of parking which is a concern. Commissioner Ottenheimer asked how people would get out of the parking spaces in the commercial building area during peak hours when cars are stacked up. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 9 Mr. O'Hara stated he does not anticipate traffic ever backing up since traffic is very low on Old Weiland and Weiland Road. Commissioner Ottenheimer asked how emergency vehicles will get to the north end of the car wash during peak times. Mr. O'Hara stated any emergency vehicles would most likely park right on Aptakisic Road to reach the north end. Mr. Pfeil stated the Fire Department's most recent comments pertain to the previous site plan distributed for the current workshop. The proposal to eliminate access to Aptakisic Road is a concern to the Fire Department. He noted that the revised plan presented at tonight's workshop has not yet been reviewed by the Fire Department. Chairman Goldspiel asked for clarification of the two or three lane issue for Weiland Road. Mr. O'Hara stated they have recommended one lane to go straight across or to make a right turn or left turn. The Village consultant recommends two lanes. He noted that putting in two lanes means they will not line up with the day care entrance. Chairman Goldspiel stated his personal preference at this point would be for the larger improvement on the proposed plan for the auto laundry. He stated it would be a good idea to have a left turn out onto Weiland from Old Weiland as it is likely to be something that backs up. Chairman Goldspiel asked for a review of the sound report. Mr. Green stated they had tried to study what is the existing sound around the site today before adding the proposed facility. Readings were taken at three locations in order to determine what the existing sound was at each of those points. A point was selected at their lot line at the south end of the site for about 50 feet east of Weiland Road. The existing sound comes to 61 decibels with no traffic passing. 60 decibels is considered a moderate level of sound. It is equivalent to an air conditioning condenser noise at 15 feet. In addition, readings were taken with normal vehicular traffic along Weiland Road which showed a 67 decibel reading at 50 feet away from the road. It was about 78-84 decibels at the road. With additional truck and bus traffic the reading was up to about 71 decibels at 50 feet away from the road and about 84 decibels at the road. At the time the readings were being taken, a train was going by and blew its whistle. The decibel reading at the right-of-way at that time was noted at 84-87 decibels. Mr. Green further stated they took sound readings at an existing facility at the exit point and some 75-100 feet away from the exit point and the blowers. The readings were taken at a facility in Evanston and the background noise there was about 74 decibels. The blower noise was not discernable at approximately 75-100 feet away. Shiner& Associates was then asked to assess the data and to look at it specifically at the point where there is an existing residence. There Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 10 conclusion was the current decibel rating would be about 2.4 decibels higher and they indicated that the human ear does not discern differences of less than 3 decibels. Chairman Goldspiel stated he did not understand how introducing 70 decibels to an existing 60 decibels only increases by 2 additional decibels. Mr. Green stated sound is not cumulative. If you have an orchestra and a horn is playing at 70 decibels and a second horn is put in,you are not at the threshold of pain. The decibel level is `.J increased some but it is not additive. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there is any sound focusing component to the structure of the car wash which will lessen sound impact. Mr. Green stated what makes this space reflective is its shape and the angles used and the surface. The north wall of the commercial building will be a heavily textured wall which will disperse sound. Other things that help are soft materials, increasing landscaping and the distance between where the noise is and where there is additional hard surface. Chairman Goldspiel asked if they are planning to do some of the berming which was discussed in the previous plan to be placed between the two buildings. Mr. Green stated yes. Chairman Goldspiel stated the revised plan is much superior to the earlier plan. Users for the commercial building no longer have to go through the entire car wash and traffic is handled better this way as well as having less of a water drip off problem this way. Commissioner Berman noted the sound readings were taken on one particular day and at one particular time and one must assume that the ambient sound is consistent seven days a week, 24- hours a day. He noted the individual taking the readings was not an expert in the area and he had requested that a professional conduct the sound study and provide conclusions. He stated he is concerned that the ambient noise present on Weiland Road at 2:00 p.m. on a Friday afternoon will not be the same as the ambient noise at 7:00 a.m. on a Saturday or Sunday. The effect of the blowers may or may not be the same at critical times for the impact of this facility. Mr. Green stated they provided the data to the sound engineer and asked if the information was appropriate enough for a report to be issued. If they did not feel it was appropriate, they had the opportunity to go out and take readings. Chairman Goldspiel asked what time of the day the readings were taken. Mr. Meyers stated the readings were taken between 12:00 - 2:00 p.m. on a Friday. They were taken at both locations on the same day with the same weather conditions. He stated he is not a Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 11 professional sound man but the noise meter was state of the art and has been used for OSHA requirements and the meter was true and correct at that point. Commissioner Berman stated it was his understanding that a more complete report would be provided which included base line readings from other times of the day and other days of the week and whether or not the ambient noise level changed so that the effect of the blower may be different. Mr. Green stated he can have readings taken at different times to see if there is any variation and then see what the impact of those variations may be. Mr. Freedman stated they will contact the consultant that drew the conclusions to suggest some appropriate times to take additional readings at different times to expand on the report at the time of a public hearing. Mr. Jeffrey Horwitz stated many of the people here are from Old Farm Village and they do not want this development. He noted he moved to Buffalo Grove in order to be in a residential area. He stated the residents would not mind having an office building on the site. This would buffer the community from the noise from the railroad. He noted you can hear dogs barking at the Pet Motel, so noise from a blower will be quite as obvious. Mr. Horwitz stated that bringing additional traffic into the community is not an asset. A lot of outside traffic will be coming into the community due to advertising hype. He noted new developments such as the ice rink and the train station will be bringing in additional traffic and this will make Weiland Road more crowded and impossible. A car wash which will be open seven days a week, 12 hours a day will crowd the area and generate enough traffic and sound problems. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there would be no sidewalk on Old Weiland Road. Mr. Green stated they had indicated at the second workshop that one of the elements they would request consideration for in variation would be no sidewalk along Old Weiland. When the auto laundry was at the south end, there was no viability or reason for a sidewalk. He stated they will be bringing the sidewalk back into the plan as the commercial building on the south end makes a difference. Mr. Barry Moody stated this plan does not have the fine details noted and it still has the same problems with traffic and noise. He noted if the commercial building does become a medical building, there would be hazardous waste materials around. He further noted there is no fire road or emergency access provided which is a hazardous condition. Ms. Sheila Cummings, 1527 Madison Court North, stated she would like to see a no recommendation sent to the Village Board. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 12 Mr. Carl Weiss, 1504 Quaker Hollow Court, stated the team is scrambling to try to put together a plan that will be approved. This is not a good plan from the start and not a good location. He stated the traffic study does not take into account the improved Route 83 and new developments along Aptakisic Road and Prairie Road. In addition the ice rink and train station have not been considered as well as the widening of Busch and Weiland Roads. There is a 3 percent increase in traffic estimated because of the time scale. He stated noise is measured on a logrythmic scale which denotes that going from 60 to 61 decibels is a 20 percent increase in noise. The sound study needs to be redone. Chairman Goldspiel asked if basing this development on the child care traffic study is appropriate or not. Mr. Pfeil stated the Village's traffic consultant and the plan done by him was done in 1990 -1991 by taking actual traffic counts at that time throughout the Village. There is a pure model that analyses all of the existing and projected land uses based on the Village's Comprehensive Plan. The Village traffic consultant in looking at this proposal and all the projected developments has stated the improvements needed to make this function is basically a left turn and right turn system. Neither this nor the other developments on Weiland require the four lane section to be built. In time that will be required but to date this is not necessary. Turn lanes and possibly traffic signalization at Thompson may be required but not the full four lane section. The Village's model does project way and uses based on buildout of the community. Mr. Jay Oberider, 393 Thompson, noted concern with sound and the hours of operation. He asked if the Village will control the hours of operation on a business license. Chairman Goldspiel asked how the Village controls hours of operation. Mr. Raysa stated it can be controlled through the business license, certain districts in the zoning ordinances restricts hours and the Plan Communication can recommend restriction of hours, and the Plan Commission often recommends to the Village Board in P.U.D. ordinances restriction of hours, all of which are enforceable. Mr. Oberider stated Commissioner Berman is correct on sound and noted an independent sound engineer is needed to look at this site and the use further, particularly in the winter with snow on the ground. Chairman Goldspiel stated there was an ordinance about sound leaving a property in the Industrial District. Mr. Pfeil confirmed that the Industrial District in the Zoning Ordinance has performance standards concerning sound impact from land uses. Chairman Goldspiel stated it might be interesting to look at what those standards are as compared Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 13 to a development such as this. Bob Cohen, 1510 Quaker Hollow Court, noted the car wash would not make it alone and the commercial building is absolutely necessary. How can this small building have such an impact on this whole project. Chairman Goldspiel stated the commercial building is close to the size of the car wash in square feet and is a fairly large commercial building. Chairman Goldspiel further stated he did not want to go too far into economic viability at this point. Commissioner Krug stated he would like more information on the sound issue before a public hearing. Commissioner Ottenheimer stated he feels a need to look at the sound,traffic and emergency access issues before any public hearing. Commissioner Berman stated a sound report is needed and Mr. Carmignani's report is required. However, all of this together with routine police and fire department reports can be provided at a public hearing. Mr. Freedman stated they are very sensitive to the issues raised regarding sound and traffic. He stated they realize that if they do not satisfy the key issues, there will be a no recommendation from this commission. Therefore,they are asking for a public hearing and will not appear for same until they have gotten the additional data requested. Chairman Goldspiel asked for a polling of the commission with yes meaning this matter goes to public hearing and no means another workshop is required. The polling was as follows: In favor of going to a public hearing: Krug, Samuels,Berman, Lundine, Ottenheimer, Trilling, Goldspiel All commissioners were in favor of going to a public hearing. ZONING ORDINANCE - CHAPTER 17.64 CONCERNING HE ' GS BY THE VILLAGE BOARD Mr. Raysa stated this is the second time this matter is before the Plan Commission. There are two basic reasons for the request. Sometimes it happens that a variation is missed or a matter is missed on the notice for a public hearing. Because of that it can be either re-noticed at the Plan Commission and hold another public hearing or another public hearing can be noticed up for that Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 14 specific item on the overall plan at the Village Board level. Technically there is no authority in the zoning ordinance for the Village Board to hold that public hearing. He stated he would like to insert that to allow the Board to have that authority. Mr. Raysa further stated occasionally the Village Board will take certain action as part of a settlement during litigation. Pursuant to case law,before a settlement can be reached, if there is a change in that plan it must go back to a public hearing and he would like to give the Corporate Authorities that authority to hold that public hearing. Mr. Raysa stated under both of these scenarios, he suggests amending the zoning ordinance and have the backstop public hearing held at the Village Board. Chairman Goldspiel stated the proposed language is much too broad. Mr. Raysa stated it was his inserts to make the language as broad as possible. Commissioner Berman stated he did not think the Village Board is going to start holding plan commission hearings on a regular basis. They do not have the time for same. He stated he did not feel it was necessary to insert language stating it is customary to hold public hearings at the plan commission level except for exceptional circumstances. Chairman Goldspiel stated he is very concerned with this proposal. Statutes are drawn assuming always the worst case scenario. This language gives no guidance as to where to go when you want to do something. Mr. Raysa stated Chairman Goldspiel is correct in his interpretation of the proposed language. However, he purposely made the language over inclusive to cover all scenarios. Commissioner Samuels stated the language makes it possible under the new ordinance for the Village Board to change ordinances on any subject, any matter, without advice and consent of the Plan Commission. He further noted that the fact is that the Board can do what they want anyway regardless of anything the Plan Commission says. Therefore, nothing really changes. Chairman Goldspiel there have been substantial reductions in the jurisdiction of the Plan Commission. He noted this could lead to a further substantial loss of jurisdiction. Commissioner Samuels noted that if it is an issue which has already been before the plan commission and a public hearing had already been held, then there would be no objection to a Board level public hearing. He asked why Mr. Raysa chose not to include that. Mr. Raysa stated he had major difficulties in wording and drafting of the ordinance. Knowing this option has been used so seldom by the Village Board and that it does rely on the Plan Commission, he feels the Corporate Authority should have the authority to hold a public hearing. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 15 - -- ----- -- Commissioner Berman stated this does not eliminate the need for a public hearing. The issue of abuse simply means that the public hearing takes place somewhere else, although there is still notice and opportunity for the public to comment and opportunity for the plan commissioners to appear to ask that the matter be sent to the Plan Commission. Commissioner Berman suggested Mr. Raysa draft both sets of language and the Plan Commission can then suggest which one should go to public hearing. III \./ CHAIRMAN'S REPORT -None FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE Mr. Pfeil indicated that there will be a regular meeting on December 6, 1995 and a special meeting on December 13, 1995;the regular meeting for December 20th will be canceled. PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS -None STAFF REPORT -None NEW BUSINESS -None ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Berman, seconded by Commissioner Trilling and carried unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Goldspiel adjourned the meeting at 11:00 p.m. Res tfully submitted, c Fay R in,`Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: S EP N SPIEL, hairman Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 15, 1995-Page 16