1995-11-01 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
November 1, 1995
Kid's Choice Child Care Center
Chairman Goldspiel called the hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Chairman
Goldspiel read the Notice of Public Hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald,
explained the procedure for the hearing and swore in all persons who wished to give testimony.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Lundine
Mr. Ottenheimer
Mr. Trilling
Commissioners absent: Ms. Howard
Mr. Berman
Also present: Ms. Judy Murtaugh, Melvin Simon& Associates
Mr. John Finnemore, KinderCare Learning Centers
Mr. Marc Schwartz, Marc Schwartz& Associates
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Ms. DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Manager
The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the public hearing:
Exhibit 1: Simon Property Group,Proposed KinderCare Facility dated November 1, 1995
Exhibit 2: Photograph of current property site
Exhibit 3: Outdoor play area plan
Exhibit 4: Table of existing Kid's Choice Centers
Exhibit 5: Photographs of playground at Naperville facility
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 1
While awaiting the arrival of the Village Attorney, Chairman Goldspiel proceeded with a motion
by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Lundine to approve the minutes of the
public hearing and special meeting of October 11, 1995. The motion was unanimously approved.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Several corrections were noted to both the public and special meeting minutes. All
Commissioners were in favor of the amended motion and the motion passed unanimously with
Commissioners Goldspiel,Krug and Ottenheimer abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS -None
Mr. Marc Schwartz,Marc Schwartz& Associates, Inc., they are requesting a petition to amend
the existing B-5 P.U.D. ordinance at Town Center to allow the construction of an outdoor play
lot for a KinderCare Learning facility, particularly a Kid's Choice Learning facility which is a
division of KinderCare. The child care facility is a permitted use is a permitted use within the B-5
zoning district ordinance, however, the State of Illinois mandates that any child care facility have
an outdoor play lot and since this play lot has not been approved as part of the planned unit
development for Town Center, they are seeking such an amendment to the Town Center
ordinance.
Ms. Judy Murtaugh, Melvin Simon and Associates, feels the proposed use would be a good
tenant for Town Center. She stated it would bring a lot of traffic flow into the property and at the
same time provide a necessary service for many people in the community. In order to facilitate the
tenant a playground is necessary. The most logical space is behind the leased premises, well
sheltered from traffic flow and providing a nice, safe area. She stated they have created a curb
line and landscaped area. They have relocated the dumpsters into one combined trash corral and
additional landscaping. There will be a 6 foot cedar fence around this area as well as concrete
bollards for additional protection for the kids. The dumpster enclosure will be 16 x 20 and large
enough to house the required four dumpsters. There will be rolling gates on the front and a back
gate for the recycling people. The enclosure will have a small roof over it with screening along
the exterior walls of the enclosure and wheels and pins on the front gate.
Mr. John Finnemore stated Kid's Choice was instituted about two years ago in response to a need
for care for the after school child. The facilities are open from 6:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. but the
majority of occupancy is after school. Some kids come early in the morning, have breakfast and
are then taken to school. Only about 25 percent occupancy occurs in the morning. The design of
the facility is to provide five different areas such as arts and crafts, computers, dramatics, and
audio-visual area.
Mr. Finnemore stated with the help of Melvin Simon they have developed a very safe area for the
kids on the playground. He stated the existing meter banks will also be enclosed with more
fencing. In any case, the children are always supervised when outside.
I I
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 2
I �
II
In response to petitioner's request for a separate room for pre-school children, ages 2-5,Mr.
Finnemore stated they are proposing to have a small group of those children who would be
separated from the after school children. He stated they were also asked to provide a list of other
facilities noting which were in line retail and which were free standing. He stated the total number
of facilities is 44. The majority are in line retail with only 13 facilities free standing. There are
only a few centers that have 3-5 year old children but this is something that will become more
frequent as demand dictates.
Mr. Finnemore stated this site is already protected by an existing berm and the proposed changes
will further protect another side of the playground. Additionally, the front of the facility has a
large courtyard area where kids are out with their parents or teachers and provides a buffer
between the traffic lane and the entrance to the facility.
Mr. Finnemore stated the back area would be used for drop off and pick up of the kids by the
Kid's Choice bus. Parents must park their cars and escort their child in and out of the center.
KinderCare requires a file which lists who the appropriate people are to pick up the child. This
ensures the child is always supervised in the public way.
Mr. Finnemore stated the playground will provide a volleyball court, basketball court, dropshot
court, picnic tables, and hopscotch. The existing asphalt is utilized and striped to provide the play
areas. It is a bright and well lit area for the children.
Mr. Finnemore stated this site offers three sided protection as well as a large front courtyard for
protection against traffic along with berming and landscaping which makes this a premier location
for a Kid's Choice center. He further stated the dumpster issue has been designed to be easily
cleanable. The electric banks have been well shielded and the site is very desirable.
Mr. Pfeil stated he spoke to the health officer who stated he is still concerned with the size of the
proposed dumpster area and hopes the pickup schedule will be such that the dumpster area will be
adequate for the tenants in this area. He also questioned if DCFS requires anything other than an
asphalt surface for children 3-5 years of age in the play area.
Ms. Murtaugh stated that she measured the dumpsters that are currently there and then designed
the area around those dumpsters. Bigger dumpsters have a tendency to become unsightly and the
bigger the dumpster, the more damage the waste control people can cause with them. If more
frequent pickups are required, they will be accommodated.
Mr. Finnemore stated DCFS does require impact type matting for younger children but only if
there is climbing type apparatus on the playground which will not be used at this facility.
Commissioner Lundine asked how deliveries of supplies will be handled.
Mr. Finnemore stated deliveries come through the back door. Most of the time the children will
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 3
be in school except for the 20 or so children in the 3-5 year range. He stated it is a matter of
supervision of any children present.
Commissioner Trilling asked what the ages of the younger children would be as it was indicated
originally as 3-5 and now was 2-5.
Mr. Finnemore stated the ages of the younger children will be 3-5.
`./ Commissioner Trilling asked how many bollards would be constructed along the south end of the
property. He noted one plan shows nine and another plan shows five.
Mr. Finnemore stated they propose having bollards six feet on center.
Commissioner Trilling suggested providing a sidewalk to the kids drop off area from the gated
area inside the asphalt playground area.
Commissioner Trilling noted the basketball court faces west and is only three feet from the fenced
area. He stated it may be better to turn the basketball court in the other direction against the
building.
Mr. Finnemore suggested turning the court to the north because turning it all the way would put
the court in the middle of the playground area.
Commissioner Ottenheimer asked what decisions are made as to whether a playground has
climbing apparatus or not.
Mr. Finnemore stated the center is not geared towards the pre-school age group. The interior will
have some type of small club houses and other such toys will be over some type of impact
matting. The focus of this playground is more toward older children. In addition, the area is too
small for any additional equipment.
Commissioner Rosenston stated that there will probably be some parents dropping off kids who
will park at the curb.
Mr. Finnemore stated KinderCare will do its part in conjunction with the Buffalo Grove Police
Department and management to try to prevent that from happening.
Commissioner Krug asked if the Village of Buffalo Grove has an agreement with the shopping
center for enforcing traffic in the private property shopping centers.
Mr. Raysa stated no.
Mr. Raysa stated that normally shopping center owners and the police department work together
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 4
notwithstanding there is no written agreement pursuant to state statute.
Commissioner Krug asked if the downspouts empty to the pavement.
Ms. Murtaugh stated yes.
Commissioner Krug asked if there is any outdoor lighting in the play area.
Mr. Finnemore stated they will add some wall mounted lighting for added security.
Commissioner Krug asked if there will be additional lighting at the drop off area.
Ms. Murtaugh stated lighting already exists there.
Mr. Finnemore stated additional lighting would be added if the existing lighting is not sufficient.
Commissioner Samuels stated Town Center is Buffalo Grove's only TIF District. The idea is that
real estate taxes are abated for a period of time with the hope that the extra sales taxes generated
by the ability to develop the area commercially will offset those taxes until such time as the real
estate taxes are reimplemented.
Mr. Raysa stated the real estate taxes are not abated. When the TIF is originally set up you
develop a base year for assessment. Anything over and above that base year as far as real estate
taxes generation went to pay off the TIF bond. That means the taxing entities in the district will
only receive taxes on the base year EAV.
Commissioner Samuels stated that means the taxing authorities who would receive the real estate
taxes, receive taxes based on the original year and not on the increases in value that take place
over the ensuing years that the TIF District is in existence.
Commissioner Samuels asked what sales taxes will be generated by this use.
Mr. Schwartz stated there are no sales taxes generated by this use. It is a permitted use
designated as permitted use in the B-5 Town Center district and they are here seeking an
amendment to the P.U.D. concerning the outdoor use requirement set forth by DCFS. He stated
this is a site plan use amendment, not a zoning district amendment.
Chairman Goldspiel asked the maximum number of children and the range of ages to be
accommodated at this facility.
Mr. Schwartz stated it would be 140 children if the site were fully occupied.
Mr. Finnemore stated it would be more likely to be around 130 children. A maximum of 20 of
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 5
those children would be 3-5 years of age and about 100 children between the ages of 6-12.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if all 100 children would be transported by van and if so, how many
vans and where will they park.
Mr. Finnemore stated the majority of the children would be transported from school to the center.
A few would be dropped off by parents in the morning and transported to school by van. He
stated they would probably have four 12 passenger vans. The vans would be parked on site
during the day and driven home at night.
Rick Alper, 205 Eugene, Prairie View, noted there would be 20 children between 3-5 years of age
as well as another 20 kids in kindergarten which means there will be at least 40 kids in the center
while deliveries are going on.
Mr. Finnemore stated that would be correct if they run the kindergarten program. 40 children,
however, is not a large number to supervise. Basically food is delivered once a week and milk is
delivered more often but quite early.
Beth Nudelman, 708 Juneway Avenue, Deerfield, stated there will definitely be a draw for
kindergarten kids. She stated that an asphalt surface for kids of any age is not a good idea and
not safe. She also asked if the dumpsters were prone to field mice or rats.
Ms. Murtaugh stated the goal is to keep all four legged animals out of the dumpster enclosure.
This design has a hose bibb and a floor drain to hose down the area. They also have a steam
cleaner on contract to clean the area. Every effort will be made to control the area.
Mr. Finnemore stated that all KinderCare facilities have hard play surfaces. The type of activities
which are proposed require that kind of surface.
Commissioner Trilling asked how many of the in line retail locations have parking spaces adjacent
to the building itself.
Mr. Finnemore stated he is not aware of any but there probably are some.
Commissioner Trilling asked if perhaps a crosswalk or intersection would be an appropriate idea.
Ms. Murtaugh stated every customer in Town Center needs to cross to get to the stores.
Mr. Schwartz stated the developer will take whatever action is necessary to deal with any safety
issues.
There being no further comments or questions from anyone else present, Chairman Goldspiel
closed the public hearing at 9:10 p.m.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 6
Respectfully submitted,
Fa Rubi ,Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
S P N GOL S IEL, C 'rman
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 7
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
November 1, 1995
Buffalo Grove Town Center, Proposed Kid's Choice child care center
With an outdoor playground -Amendment of the
�.J Planned Unit Development (P.U.D.) Ordinance in the B-5 District
Aptakisic Sand and Gravel Company property, southwest corner
of Aptakisic Road/Milwaukee Avenue, ECD Company, Inc. -
Annexation with Industrial, B-3 Planned Business Center District
and R-9 P.U.D. zoning and approval of a Preliminary Plan
Workshop#2
Stone Creek Subdivision (Indeck) - Final Plat
Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 9:10 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Lundine
Mr. Ottenheimer
Mr. Trilling
Commissioners absent: Ms. Howard
Mr. Berman
Also present: Ms. Judy Murtaugh,Melvin Simon& Associates
Mr. John Finnemore, KinderCare Learning Centers
Mr. Marc Schwartz,Marc Schwartz& Associates
Mr. Scott Greenberg, ECD Company, Inc.
Mr. Lawrence Freedman, Ash, Anos, Freedman& Logan
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Ms. DeAnn Grover, Village Trustee
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Manager
BUFFALO GROVE TOWN CENTER, PROPOSED KID'S CHOICE CHILD CARE CENTER
WITH AN OUTDOOR PLAYGROUND - AMENDMENT OF THE PLANNED UNIT
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 1
DEVELOPMENT (P.U.D.) ORDINANCE IN THE B-5 DISTRICT
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Lundine to recommend approval
to the Village Board of the petition for approval of an amendment to the approved Planned Unit
Development for the Buffalo Grove Town Center to allow construction of an outdoor play area
and re-location of a trash refuse area in a location originally approved for landscaping, service
deliveries and pick-ups and parking.
Commissioner Rosenston stated he has seen positive changes to the plan during the workshop
meetings. However, he is very concerned with the need for some sort of crosswalk from the
parking lot. He noted he was originally concerned with a play area in the back of the site,
however, the design and buffering is such that he feels secure with the plan and feels the plan will
be a positive addition to Town Center.
Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: Rosenston, Lundine, Trilling, Goldspiel
NAYES: Krug, Samuels, Ottenheimer
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Howard, Berman
Chairman Goldspiel asked if anyone cared to state why they voted no.
Commissioner Ottenheimer stated he commends Melvin Simon& Associates for accommodating
the changes and concerns the commission has had. However, he stated he has a problem with the
playground in the back. In addition, the crossing of the road to get in and out is a major concern
as is the proximity of the dumpsters to the playground.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he is not too concerned with pedestrian traffic issues. However, he is
concerned with the trash area proximity and the grimness of the play area. He noted that this will,
however, be a facility that will be of use to the residents of the community.
Commissioner Rosenston stated he is putting faith in the company because they would not pick a
site with problems which would lead to failure. If there are problems, parents would not put their
children in the center and corrections will be made.
APTAKISIC SAND AND GRAVEL COMPANY PROPERTY. SOUTHWEST CORNER OF
APTAKISIC ROAD/MILWAUKEE AVENUE, ECD COMPANY. INC. - ANNEXATION
WITH INDUSTRIAL.B-3 PLANNED BUSINESS DISTRICT AND R-9 P.U.D. ZONING
AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN-WORKSHOP #2
Mr. Freedman of Ash, Anos, Freedman& Logan stated they have tried to address a number of
issues raised by the Plan Commission.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1,'1995-Page 2
Mr. Greenberg of ECD Company Inc. stated the western area of the site has been designed
conceptually to accommodate 100 percent office, although they would like to reserve the right to
have a portion of this area to be service oriented. This area would consist of small users in the
3,000-5,000 square feet range. This design would have a maximum traffic impact and a maximum
number of cars on the site.
Mr. Greenberg stated one of the questions which came up at the last meeting concerned the
northwestern portion of the site and whether it was in a floodway area. The engineers have now
`./ had a chance to check with the latest maps which show the entire site is out of the flood plain.
This area can now be used for parking on this site.
Mr. Greenberg stated the second emergency access from the industrial site into the residential site
is now shown on the plan. Further, he noted there have been discussions with Mr. Powell of the
County Transportation Department regarding the access point along Aptakisic and it now appears
they will only accommodate only one access point off of Aptakisic to service this site. Therefore,
there will need to be a combined entrance and curb cut between the residential and the
office/warehouse end. This is in part to accommodate the development perspectively across the
street in Lincolnshire. The county's idea is to line those two access points up into a single point.
Perspectively there may be enough warrants to bring a traffic light to that intersection.
Mr. Greenberg noted there had also been a question as to where the property lines are and where
the setbacks come from. He stated there is a total of approximately 95 feet to the first building
from the property line. Under Buffalo Grove ordinance, 60 feet is the required setback between a
property line and a first building and they are well in excess of the ordinance. However, whereas
they are exceeding the code here by 20-25 feet, there is an area in the residential side where they
are proposing a 30 foot setback as opposed to the required 35 foot setback. They are asking the
commission to allow this 30 foot setback because they are expanding the setback on the
commercial side.
Chairman Goldspiel asked why it could not be separated by the property line.
Mr. Greenberg stated the property line is set based on where the utility easement is running which
in actuality was set by Lincolnshire.
Commissioner Trilling suggested taking the 20 foot easement and move the property line over 5
feet which make it only 15 feet off of the residential portion and only 5 feet to the easement line
on the industrial portion.
Mr. Greenberg stated they will look into that.
Regarding the residential site, Mr. Greenberg stated they have now provided a street which runs
through the community so there are fewer homes where tandem parking would pull onto the
roadway. Also they have expanded the median buffer in the roadway to create more landscaping.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 3
The buildings have been moved at greater angles so there is more variety in the streetscape.
Mr. Greenberg stated they have now closed the access point on Milwaukee Avenue previously
shown on the plan, making it exclusively an emergency access gate. This prevents the possibility
of cut through traffic. In addition, this creates more of a security system inside the community.
He noted they have now increased the number of enclosed parking spaces so the site now
provides 56 enclosed parking spaces. In total there are now 252 attached spaces and 56 detached
spaces for a total of 308 enclosed garages. The number of visitor spaces has been increased from
\./ 213 to 230 which is in addition to the tandem spaces and there is still ample opportunity to create
another 30-40 detached garages which would be landbanked in case they are needed in the future.
Mr. Greenberg stated Village code requires 25 foot separations between buildings. That has now
been accomplished except for three locations on the site. This happens at corner spots on the site
and the separation is 15 feet. They will continue to try for more separation.
Mr. Greenberg stated this development has been targeted from the beginning to attract empty
nesters, singles, transferees and the corporate market. All the service packages and amenities
have been geared for this type of market. They have tried to design the units to ensure they
would be attractive to the mature market and discourage rentals by younger families. This is an
upscale development and will price families with young children out of the market. To further this
end, they have removed the basketball court from the plan, all units are split plans with no side-
by-side bedrooms, oversized whirlpool tubs have been added and they are proposing this
community be a gated community. There would be a keycard access for residents as they drive
into the community. Visitors would be allowed in only after video monitoring and the clubhouse
will have a very formal and elegant look which will speak to a mature market.
In the retail development, Mr. Greenberg stated they have now modified the plan to reflect all
Buffalo Grove requirements. They are proposing an 80 foot setback for the closest residential
building and a 30 foot landscaped buffer all along the back of the commercial parcel to create
additional separation between the residential and the retail section. He stated there are, however,
a couple of variations in setback from the residential and commercial areas. There is one building
which is set back 30 feet from the residential property line, and a building setback of 25 feet as
opposed to the required 35 foot requirement occurs on the residential portion of the plan abutting
the commercial parcel.
Mr. Greenberg stated they have tried to choose the highest traffic count uses for the commercial
in order to show the maximum impact on the site. He further noted the plan shows a 25 foot
setback from the future right-of-way line after additional improvements are made to Milwaukee
Avenue.
Chairman Goldspiel noted the Village has been moving toward more than a 25 foot setback from
major arterials.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 4
Mr. Pfeil stated the minimum zoning standard is 25 feet in the B-3 district and the Village has
generally tried to achieve a larger setback along arterials when reviewing new projects.
Mr. Greenberg stated the traffic study recommends an additional left hand turn lane be provided
traveling northbound along Milwaukee to westbound Aptakisic. He stated as part of that
recommendation and because they would be a party to the traffic impact, they would be willing to
pay the pro-rata share that would be necessary and appropriate.
`./ Mr. Greenberg further stated the phase I environmental report indicates there is no warranted
concerns of environmental problems on this site.
Mr. Freedman reiterated that they are showing retail plans in concept only and have no plans to
develop the area in the fashion shown. He stated they have shown it in the most intense fashion in
order to be conservative in traffic and other estimates. He stated they anticipate that as part of
the annexation agreement the retail would have to come back to the commission for approvals at
such time as development begins.
Commissioner Krug asked if there is any way to make the connection to the Rogers Center
development.
Mr. Greenberg stated there is a floodway and marsh which separates the two and it would not be
possible.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if there would be any loading docks at the industrial site.
Mr. Greenberg stated the concept plan anticipates 100 percent office so those buildings will be
divided up differently and there would probably be a court in the office area to provide for trash
and other services.
Mr. Freedman stated they would come back for approval once they get particular users for the
site. He noted they showed the plan as all office for calculation purposes.
Commissioner Rosenston asked if there was any way to get rid of the lot line problems along the
east side of the site to get rid of the variances. He further stated the biggest problem with this
entire plan is having only one entrance to the whole site, especially for the residential development
which will have the commercial around it. People will be trying to get out in the mornings to go
to work at the same time people are coming into the development.
Mr. Freedman stated they cannot change what the county will do. He stated that they can
possibly design something internally to alleviate problems.
Due to this constraint, Commissioner Rosenston stated he has strong concerns with what goes
into the industrial office development. He further stated he dislikes forcing all the traffic onto
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 5
Aptakisic which will then go southbound on Milwaukee.
Chairman Goldspiel agreed with Commissioner Rosenston on the Milwaukee traffic issue and the
Aptakisic intersection.
Commissioner Samuels agreed that dual access is desirable and noted if the community is to be
gated, it would cut out any cut through traffic. He also agreed that a site of this size should not
require any variances and it would be best to adjust property lines. He stated the buffering
between the two sites needs to be addressed. He stated what is on the plan does not seem to
allow for an serious berming or screening between the residential and commercial sites. He stated
the design of the units is very good and agreed that they do present themselves as a more mature
type of unit.
Commissioner Ottenheimer stated he is not happy with the phase I environmental study. He
stated the language is still very vague and would like some further study.
Mr. Freedman stated all consultants will use this kind of language. He stated that if any additional
environmental studies are required,they will do so,but generally a phase II study is not done
unless the phase I contains something that justifies such further study. He stated they will do
whatever tests are necessary to prove to themselves there are no problems.
Commissioner Trilling concurred with access problems off the site. He questioned whose
decision it was to use the Milwaukee access for emergency use only.
Mr. Greenberg stated it was their decision in a desire to get access on Aptakisic from the county
which requires shutting off second Milwaukee access.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated they must concentrate on the internal circulation on the
commercial piece.
Commissioner Trilling asked what the reason was for putting in the emergency access to the
residential site.
Mr. Greenberg stated the county's position is that if you have one major access point off of
Milwaukee, they will not allow any access along Aptakisic. Therefore,they decided to shut off
the Milwaukee Avenue access to the residential in order to gain an access on Aptakisic.
Mr. Freedman stated it would be best to have their traffic consultant meet with the Village
consultant to try to come up with some sort of solution to the problems raised.
Chairman Goldspiel stated one solution on the commercial property might be to have larger
commercial uses. He stated that the office, residential and commercial plan all hinge on the access
issue. He noted that may require a change in uses to get something that works.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 6
Commissioner Rosenston stated it is crucial to get access. Without two complete accesses, one
off of each road, this entire project is a wash. He further noted it may be a good idea to get a
realistic idea of uses for the commercial property, given the limitations of access and circulation.
Commissioner Lundine stated unless the road access is straightened out he cannot see allowing all
three uses.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the sight has sufficient depth to support some kind of a frontage
`./ service drive along Milwaukee.
Mr. Freedman stated they have not yet analyzed that as yet.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he is very concerned with a third multi family development in the area
which is not tied to the rest of the community. He stated this is made even worse by proposing a
gated community. He stated his conclusion is that there is just too much here on this plan.
Commissioner Samuels stated he disagrees with Chairman Goldspiel regarding the gating concept.
He stated the gating helps to address the school's issues with regard to encouraging undue
potential for overburdening the school system and it eliminates cut through traffic. He stated this
eastern end of the Village is somewhat isolated from the rest of the Village by the railroad tracks
as are other parcels along this area. If the Village is to expand to the east, it will not be able to
integrate it into the rest of the Village and it would be wrong to insist on that kind of integration.
He noted there is a continuity with the other plans on the concept plan for the area. Therefore,
this is not necessarily a bad use simply because of some isolation factor.
Commissioner Trilling noted he is concerned with the yard waste recycling facility immediately to
the south of this site which will ultimately affect some 300 residents.
Commissioner Krug stated he originally thought this development would be isolated without any
identity to the Village. However, he now concurs with Commissioner Samuels and stated that if
the Village wants to expand to the east, there will be some isolation which will hopefully be
mitigated by some of the future developments on the east side of Milwaukee Avenue. He further
stated he did not believe the development would generate very many children for the school
district nor would it be a large burden on police or fire and it would be a good addition to the
Village.
Commissioner Rosenston concurred with Commissioners Krug and Samuels, stating there are two
distinct parts to the Village and both are developing differently. He stated this area needs to be
developed in the context of what is there and how it fits together. He noted there would be a
definite market for empty nesters and the impact of children on the schools will be minimal. He
noted it may be that an elaborate residential use without too much retail or office is what is
needed here.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 7
Commissioner Ottenheimer stated the impact on the school district may be greater than expected.
Given the way the Buffalo Grove community is developing there may be quite an impact on the
schools. In addition the access issue is a condition precedent to the type of development allowed
here.
Commissioner Krug stated he has heard about the impact on the school district for many years.
He stated the school districts are here to support the children. This facility will not greatly impact
the school district and even if it was all single family, the purpose is to provide for the children.
`/ This development will probably create more tax dollars than children considering the industrial
and commercial and pricey residences to be built. The school districts can manage and if they
have to tighten their belts, so be it. He stated there will not be many children from this
development and there are always some children leaving the district.
Commissioner Samuels stated he is confident in both the school district administration and the
board to handle whatever impact this particular development has. He stated he assumes they can
handle the Boznos property, if that should ever occur because it has been on the comprehensive
plan and should have been accounted for. He further stated the net impact of this development
will be positive as far as the tax base is concerned. He noted the level of funding for the children
in the district is among the highest in the State and even if it is watered down somewhat there will
not be much harm. It may mean the school district may have to use some fiscal management to
spread the dollars, but it does not make a crisis.
Chairman Goldspiel stated not every neighborhood matures at the same time and timing is
something to look at with the schools. He stated he agrees with Commissioner Samuels that the
number of children of rental communities, expensive or not, has been very small. He noted the
advantage District 102 has is that it has the benefit of a sound tax base to help out.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he was willing to go along with this development as long as it could be
integrated with a neighborhood. His intention to integrate was behind the discussion about
bikepaths that would somehow connect with the railroad station property and a system that would
bring other people in. He stated he also feels the gates will make no difference to the number of
children from this development which will be negligible. However, turning this into a gated
community cuts it off from the western portion of the Village but from other people everywhere.
He stated he is troubled by three high density rental developments in the same area and all
separated from the rest of the Village. All of this departs entirely from the whole planning
concept which was diversity within the community and diversity of housing types.
Mr. Freedman stated that at the earliest hearing discussions were held of the serious site
constraints within the standpoint of the gravel pits, etc. which would make it prohibitive to
develop as entirely industrial and this was the premise they came in on. That was the initial
driving force in planning to secure a large portion of the land for residential use.
Mr. Greenberg stated that from an engineering standpoint this development is feasible and have
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1,T995-Page 8
now confirmed that the pilings would be successful and the utilities are feasible using conventional
techniques with some modification.
Dr. Douglas Parks, Superintendent of District 102, stated their objective was that this property
was not zoned for residential in the Village's long range plan. He stated their projections in the
school district reflect residential areas in the areas that are zoned residential but not in other such
zoning.
Chairman Goldspiel stated they are not changing the zoning. This is planning which is different
from zoning.
Dr. Parks stated the intended use was not as specified here. He stated the district does not claim
this to be a crisis or an overall long term horrible impact on the schools, but it is an impact. The
schools are planned very carefully to match what has been reflected in the Village's long range
plan. Whenever that changes, it does have a negative impact on the schools. The potential range
of enrollment in this subdivision of between 6-55 kids does not sound enormous but when you are
getting near capacity, especially when you are looking at the other significant areas for
development in the Village, this number does make a significant amount of difference.
Dr. Parks suggested that the major issue on this development is children and making sure there
are appropriate educational facilities for the children that have been planned for. When the long
range plans change, then the space available in the school district is interrupted significantly. He
stated the District 21 comparison was interesting. Demographics have changed significantly in the
last few years and the rapid decline in enrollment isn't forecast into the future. The re-population
of existing housing is something to consider and that is also a part of District 102's demographic
studies.
Chairman Goldspiel noted this package includes commercial, office and residential and asked if
the commercial and office package would not help with a tax base for the benefit of the schools
district.
Dr. Parks stated once they know the proposed EAD of this property he would be better able to
get some numbers. Clearly, however, the more kids there are, the less clear revenue will be
received by the district.
Chairman Goldspiel stated that was something to think about for the public hearing.
Commissioner Rosenston asked if more kids are not generated from ownership units than rental
units.
Dr. Parks stated over the years that was true but times are changing, demographics are changing
and home ownership is becoming more complicated and difficult for young families and rental
properties are beginning to generate more children than they have previously. He noted single
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 9
parent households are on the rise and many times with both parents working,this type of enclosed
community may prove very attractive to such families.
Fredi Schmutte, President of School Board 102, stated the board has embarked on an in depth
long range planning process before the referendum. There demographics and statics for this site
were based on figures without any residential on this site. She stated Commissioner Samuels'
comment that a few more kids would make no difference was incorrect because the schools,
which may have the physical space to accommodate additional children, would not be able to
`./ deliver the educational services they now enjoy and the number of students per class would rise.
If more and more children are added, they will not be able to continue to deliver the quality and
kind of education that this community demands. The goal is to become a world class school
district and the projections were based on material they were given. This site was planned as
commercial and industrial, not residential. She further noted that should the Village annex this
site, it makes it somewhat easier to jump Milwaukee Avenue and annex the Boznos property. She
stated they are very concerned about the impact of the accommodation of additional residential
space planned for the Village as well as the re-population of existing neighborhoods. She noted
people move here because of the schools and younger people will move to rental housing because
they do not have the money for a down payment but they want their kids to get into the best
school district.
Barb Newmark, Co-president of District 102 PTO, stated she was appealing to the commission
not to consider this plan as all their demographic studies were based on this site becoming strictly
commercial and industrial. When developers build in District 102, families will come and it will be
the children who will suffer. She noted there is a petition with 400 signatures against this kind of
development and urged that this plan not be considered.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if the Boznos property was taken into the district's planning.
Ms. Newmark stated the demographer received information based on administration discussions
with the Village president and planner of Lincolnshire. They were told that property was planned
for a mixed use development compatible to Rivershire which does not generate children. It was
on that basis that the demographer made his projections.
Dr. Parks stated they used the process of taking a 20 year span and breaking it up into 5 years
with 1,000 units projected overall and 50 units per year. That limited amount was included in the
demographics for the school district. The long term plan for the Boznos property is now a
different concept than originally proposed.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if there is a timing issue.
Dr. Parks stated if everything in that long range plan comes to pass in the next four years, the
school district is in serious trouble. If the plan is extended over a longer period of time the district
will be better able to handle the problem.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 10
Chairman Goldspiel asked if there has been any discussion about school donation.
Dr. Parks stated there has not been any such discussion. If this development comes to pass,
discussion will, of course, begin.
Karen Danenberg, 20 Copperwood, stated this development would be better served with office
space and a hotel similar to that in Lincolnshire. The one access off Aptakisic would then be
sufficient.
Jennifer Alfring, 20574 Eugene, Prairie View, stated she has five children in the district, of which
three a learning disabled and require special education services. She stated these services will be
affected if the school district is required to tighten its belt as proposed by Commissioners Krug
and Samuels. She stated she has a real concern with where the budget will tightened and where
the money will be pulled from.
Commissioner Krug stated it can be done. He stated there will be children going out of the school
district as well as those coming into the school district. He stated it was done in District 21 where
the explosion was much greater than what this development will create.
Beth Nudelman, 708 Juneway Avenue, Deerfield, stated she also has a child with special needs.
She stated the needs of these children are not always met event now as there is a shortage of
professionals needed to help these children. More kids will come in because of this rental housing
as this is a wonderful school district. The schools function great on 23-24 kids per class but will
not function as well with 30 in a class, especially with children with special needs who do require
more attention. The physical size of the rooms will become a problem, let alone the amount of
work expected from the teachers.
Commissioner Krug stated he had children with special needs and at that time there was no
provision in state law that required the school district to provide such help. He stated he knows
what it is like to get help. He stated he and his wife fought in Springfield, in the district and
locally to get legislation which states the school district must provide for those children with
special needs. He noted his child had to go to Summit school in East Dundee because District 21
did not provide such services. Now these services are available and the district will not let the
children down. If District 102 is such a wonderful district, it would be nice to open it up to more
people to have the opportunity to take advantage of its services.
Chairman Goldspiel asked how long of a build out the residential portion of this development
would have.
Mr. Greenberg stated some units would come on line approximately 7-8 months after
construction was started and all 308 units would come on line in approximately 18-20 months.
Chairman Goldspiel noted the following items needed to be addressed further:
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 11
1. Access to both internal circulation and to major arterials as well as the question regarding
ingress and egress to the entire development
2. Consideration to the nature of the community-whether it is to be gated or not
3. Donation to school district
4. Consideration to setbacks and variances
5. Realistic users for office/commercial and industrial based on traffic patterns
6. Some in depth examination of the site plan itself in order to resolve obvious problems
Mr. Pfeil noted that the site plan is still conceptual concerning the office and retail portions of the
site. In the residential area, more specific site planning is needed for items such as the detached
garages to verify that adequate sight lines for traffic visibility will be provided. Specific
dimensions all setbacks and separations between buildings will be needed as the plan becomes
more refined.
Mr. Greenberg stated he would like to get a sense as to whether there is some sort of
endorsement for the land uses proposed on the plan.
Chairman Goldspiel asked for a polling of the Commission concerning the proposed land uses,
assuming that access issues are resolved.
The polling concerning whether or not the proposed land uses are acceptable was as follows:
YES: Krug, Rosenston, Samuels, Ottenheimer
NO: Lundine, Goldspiel
ABSTAIN: Trilling
Chairman Goldspiel stated he agrees to the commercial/office but does not agree to the residential
part of the plan, which is too dense.
Commissioner Lundine noted he is concerned with the industrial and retail portions of the plan.
He said the industrial part of the plan on the west side is just too jammed together relative to the
residential area.
STONE CREEK SUBDIVISION(INDECK) -FINAL PLAT
Moved by Commissioner Samuel, seconded by Commissioner Krug to recommend approval of
the Final Plat of the Stone Creek Subdivision dated October 17, 1995, subject to inclusion of
required angles on the plat.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 12
Chairman Goldspiel asked if Village staff had reviewed the plat for closure and compliance with
the preliminary plan.
Mr. Pfeil stated the Village Engineer has represented that the plat closes and complies with the
preliminary plan. He noted that the plat is lacking proper angles, and this will be corrected and
then checked by the Village Engineer. In addition,the Village Engineer commented that the
reference to chains and links instead of feet indicates that the deed on the property is very old and
title to the property has not been transferred very often, so a more updated survey and legal
description has not been developed.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if the 25 foot setback is sufficient.
Mr. Pfeil stated that is the zoning minimum but the preliminary plan has larger setbacks to the
building and the preliminary plan will dictate the actual setbacks on the property.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if there will not be an access easement to the north.
Mr. Pfeil stated that is correct. The only reason that would have been necessary would have been
relative to the bikepath connection which would happen offsite from right-of-way to park district
property so there is no easement needed from this property.
Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: Krug, Rosenston, Lundine, Ottenheimer, Trilling, Goldspiel
NAYES: None
ABSTAIN: Samuels
ABSENT: Howard,Berman
The motion passed 6 to 0.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT-None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated the next regular meeting will be held on November 15, 1995.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS -None
STAFF REPORT -None
NEW BUSINESS - None
ADJOURNMENT
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 13
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Ottenheimer and carried
unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Goldspiel adjourned the meeting at 11:35 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Re or ing Secretary
APPROVED BY:
o �l
N GOL IEL, Ch rman
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 14