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1995-11-01 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION November 1, 1995 Kid's Choice Child Care Center Chairman Goldspiel called the hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Chairman Goldspiel read the Notice of Public Hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald, explained the procedure for the hearing and swore in all persons who wished to give testimony. Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel Mr. Krug Mr. Rosenston Mr. Samuels Mr. Lundine Mr. Ottenheimer Mr. Trilling Commissioners absent: Ms. Howard Mr. Berman Also present: Ms. Judy Murtaugh, Melvin Simon& Associates Mr. John Finnemore, KinderCare Learning Centers Mr. Marc Schwartz, Marc Schwartz& Associates Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney Ms. DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Manager The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the public hearing: Exhibit 1: Simon Property Group,Proposed KinderCare Facility dated November 1, 1995 Exhibit 2: Photograph of current property site Exhibit 3: Outdoor play area plan Exhibit 4: Table of existing Kid's Choice Centers Exhibit 5: Photographs of playground at Naperville facility Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 1 While awaiting the arrival of the Village Attorney, Chairman Goldspiel proceeded with a motion by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Lundine to approve the minutes of the public hearing and special meeting of October 11, 1995. The motion was unanimously approved. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Several corrections were noted to both the public and special meeting minutes. All Commissioners were in favor of the amended motion and the motion passed unanimously with Commissioners Goldspiel,Krug and Ottenheimer abstaining. COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS -None Mr. Marc Schwartz,Marc Schwartz& Associates, Inc., they are requesting a petition to amend the existing B-5 P.U.D. ordinance at Town Center to allow the construction of an outdoor play lot for a KinderCare Learning facility, particularly a Kid's Choice Learning facility which is a division of KinderCare. The child care facility is a permitted use is a permitted use within the B-5 zoning district ordinance, however, the State of Illinois mandates that any child care facility have an outdoor play lot and since this play lot has not been approved as part of the planned unit development for Town Center, they are seeking such an amendment to the Town Center ordinance. Ms. Judy Murtaugh, Melvin Simon and Associates, feels the proposed use would be a good tenant for Town Center. She stated it would bring a lot of traffic flow into the property and at the same time provide a necessary service for many people in the community. In order to facilitate the tenant a playground is necessary. The most logical space is behind the leased premises, well sheltered from traffic flow and providing a nice, safe area. She stated they have created a curb line and landscaped area. They have relocated the dumpsters into one combined trash corral and additional landscaping. There will be a 6 foot cedar fence around this area as well as concrete bollards for additional protection for the kids. The dumpster enclosure will be 16 x 20 and large enough to house the required four dumpsters. There will be rolling gates on the front and a back gate for the recycling people. The enclosure will have a small roof over it with screening along the exterior walls of the enclosure and wheels and pins on the front gate. Mr. John Finnemore stated Kid's Choice was instituted about two years ago in response to a need for care for the after school child. The facilities are open from 6:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. but the majority of occupancy is after school. Some kids come early in the morning, have breakfast and are then taken to school. Only about 25 percent occupancy occurs in the morning. The design of the facility is to provide five different areas such as arts and crafts, computers, dramatics, and audio-visual area. Mr. Finnemore stated with the help of Melvin Simon they have developed a very safe area for the kids on the playground. He stated the existing meter banks will also be enclosed with more fencing. In any case, the children are always supervised when outside. I I Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 2 I � II In response to petitioner's request for a separate room for pre-school children, ages 2-5,Mr. Finnemore stated they are proposing to have a small group of those children who would be separated from the after school children. He stated they were also asked to provide a list of other facilities noting which were in line retail and which were free standing. He stated the total number of facilities is 44. The majority are in line retail with only 13 facilities free standing. There are only a few centers that have 3-5 year old children but this is something that will become more frequent as demand dictates. Mr. Finnemore stated this site is already protected by an existing berm and the proposed changes will further protect another side of the playground. Additionally, the front of the facility has a large courtyard area where kids are out with their parents or teachers and provides a buffer between the traffic lane and the entrance to the facility. Mr. Finnemore stated the back area would be used for drop off and pick up of the kids by the Kid's Choice bus. Parents must park their cars and escort their child in and out of the center. KinderCare requires a file which lists who the appropriate people are to pick up the child. This ensures the child is always supervised in the public way. Mr. Finnemore stated the playground will provide a volleyball court, basketball court, dropshot court, picnic tables, and hopscotch. The existing asphalt is utilized and striped to provide the play areas. It is a bright and well lit area for the children. Mr. Finnemore stated this site offers three sided protection as well as a large front courtyard for protection against traffic along with berming and landscaping which makes this a premier location for a Kid's Choice center. He further stated the dumpster issue has been designed to be easily cleanable. The electric banks have been well shielded and the site is very desirable. Mr. Pfeil stated he spoke to the health officer who stated he is still concerned with the size of the proposed dumpster area and hopes the pickup schedule will be such that the dumpster area will be adequate for the tenants in this area. He also questioned if DCFS requires anything other than an asphalt surface for children 3-5 years of age in the play area. Ms. Murtaugh stated that she measured the dumpsters that are currently there and then designed the area around those dumpsters. Bigger dumpsters have a tendency to become unsightly and the bigger the dumpster, the more damage the waste control people can cause with them. If more frequent pickups are required, they will be accommodated. Mr. Finnemore stated DCFS does require impact type matting for younger children but only if there is climbing type apparatus on the playground which will not be used at this facility. Commissioner Lundine asked how deliveries of supplies will be handled. Mr. Finnemore stated deliveries come through the back door. Most of the time the children will Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 3 be in school except for the 20 or so children in the 3-5 year range. He stated it is a matter of supervision of any children present. Commissioner Trilling asked what the ages of the younger children would be as it was indicated originally as 3-5 and now was 2-5. Mr. Finnemore stated the ages of the younger children will be 3-5. `./ Commissioner Trilling asked how many bollards would be constructed along the south end of the property. He noted one plan shows nine and another plan shows five. Mr. Finnemore stated they propose having bollards six feet on center. Commissioner Trilling suggested providing a sidewalk to the kids drop off area from the gated area inside the asphalt playground area. Commissioner Trilling noted the basketball court faces west and is only three feet from the fenced area. He stated it may be better to turn the basketball court in the other direction against the building. Mr. Finnemore suggested turning the court to the north because turning it all the way would put the court in the middle of the playground area. Commissioner Ottenheimer asked what decisions are made as to whether a playground has climbing apparatus or not. Mr. Finnemore stated the center is not geared towards the pre-school age group. The interior will have some type of small club houses and other such toys will be over some type of impact matting. The focus of this playground is more toward older children. In addition, the area is too small for any additional equipment. Commissioner Rosenston stated that there will probably be some parents dropping off kids who will park at the curb. Mr. Finnemore stated KinderCare will do its part in conjunction with the Buffalo Grove Police Department and management to try to prevent that from happening. Commissioner Krug asked if the Village of Buffalo Grove has an agreement with the shopping center for enforcing traffic in the private property shopping centers. Mr. Raysa stated no. Mr. Raysa stated that normally shopping center owners and the police department work together Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 4 notwithstanding there is no written agreement pursuant to state statute. Commissioner Krug asked if the downspouts empty to the pavement. Ms. Murtaugh stated yes. Commissioner Krug asked if there is any outdoor lighting in the play area. Mr. Finnemore stated they will add some wall mounted lighting for added security. Commissioner Krug asked if there will be additional lighting at the drop off area. Ms. Murtaugh stated lighting already exists there. Mr. Finnemore stated additional lighting would be added if the existing lighting is not sufficient. Commissioner Samuels stated Town Center is Buffalo Grove's only TIF District. The idea is that real estate taxes are abated for a period of time with the hope that the extra sales taxes generated by the ability to develop the area commercially will offset those taxes until such time as the real estate taxes are reimplemented. Mr. Raysa stated the real estate taxes are not abated. When the TIF is originally set up you develop a base year for assessment. Anything over and above that base year as far as real estate taxes generation went to pay off the TIF bond. That means the taxing entities in the district will only receive taxes on the base year EAV. Commissioner Samuels stated that means the taxing authorities who would receive the real estate taxes, receive taxes based on the original year and not on the increases in value that take place over the ensuing years that the TIF District is in existence. Commissioner Samuels asked what sales taxes will be generated by this use. Mr. Schwartz stated there are no sales taxes generated by this use. It is a permitted use designated as permitted use in the B-5 Town Center district and they are here seeking an amendment to the P.U.D. concerning the outdoor use requirement set forth by DCFS. He stated this is a site plan use amendment, not a zoning district amendment. Chairman Goldspiel asked the maximum number of children and the range of ages to be accommodated at this facility. Mr. Schwartz stated it would be 140 children if the site were fully occupied. Mr. Finnemore stated it would be more likely to be around 130 children. A maximum of 20 of Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 5 those children would be 3-5 years of age and about 100 children between the ages of 6-12. Chairman Goldspiel asked if all 100 children would be transported by van and if so, how many vans and where will they park. Mr. Finnemore stated the majority of the children would be transported from school to the center. A few would be dropped off by parents in the morning and transported to school by van. He stated they would probably have four 12 passenger vans. The vans would be parked on site during the day and driven home at night. Rick Alper, 205 Eugene, Prairie View, noted there would be 20 children between 3-5 years of age as well as another 20 kids in kindergarten which means there will be at least 40 kids in the center while deliveries are going on. Mr. Finnemore stated that would be correct if they run the kindergarten program. 40 children, however, is not a large number to supervise. Basically food is delivered once a week and milk is delivered more often but quite early. Beth Nudelman, 708 Juneway Avenue, Deerfield, stated there will definitely be a draw for kindergarten kids. She stated that an asphalt surface for kids of any age is not a good idea and not safe. She also asked if the dumpsters were prone to field mice or rats. Ms. Murtaugh stated the goal is to keep all four legged animals out of the dumpster enclosure. This design has a hose bibb and a floor drain to hose down the area. They also have a steam cleaner on contract to clean the area. Every effort will be made to control the area. Mr. Finnemore stated that all KinderCare facilities have hard play surfaces. The type of activities which are proposed require that kind of surface. Commissioner Trilling asked how many of the in line retail locations have parking spaces adjacent to the building itself. Mr. Finnemore stated he is not aware of any but there probably are some. Commissioner Trilling asked if perhaps a crosswalk or intersection would be an appropriate idea. Ms. Murtaugh stated every customer in Town Center needs to cross to get to the stores. Mr. Schwartz stated the developer will take whatever action is necessary to deal with any safety issues. There being no further comments or questions from anyone else present, Chairman Goldspiel closed the public hearing at 9:10 p.m. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 6 Respectfully submitted, Fa Rubi ,Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: S P N GOL S IEL, C 'rman Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-November 1, 1995-Page 7 REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION November 1, 1995 Buffalo Grove Town Center, Proposed Kid's Choice child care center With an outdoor playground -Amendment of the �.J Planned Unit Development (P.U.D.) Ordinance in the B-5 District Aptakisic Sand and Gravel Company property, southwest corner of Aptakisic Road/Milwaukee Avenue, ECD Company, Inc. - Annexation with Industrial, B-3 Planned Business Center District and R-9 P.U.D. zoning and approval of a Preliminary Plan Workshop#2 Stone Creek Subdivision (Indeck) - Final Plat Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 9:10 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel Mr. Krug Mr. Rosenston Mr. Samuels Mr. Lundine Mr. Ottenheimer Mr. Trilling Commissioners absent: Ms. Howard Mr. Berman Also present: Ms. Judy Murtaugh,Melvin Simon& Associates Mr. John Finnemore, KinderCare Learning Centers Mr. Marc Schwartz,Marc Schwartz& Associates Mr. Scott Greenberg, ECD Company, Inc. Mr. Lawrence Freedman, Ash, Anos, Freedman& Logan Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney Ms. DeAnn Grover, Village Trustee Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Manager BUFFALO GROVE TOWN CENTER, PROPOSED KID'S CHOICE CHILD CARE CENTER WITH AN OUTDOOR PLAYGROUND - AMENDMENT OF THE PLANNED UNIT Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 1 DEVELOPMENT (P.U.D.) ORDINANCE IN THE B-5 DISTRICT Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Lundine to recommend approval to the Village Board of the petition for approval of an amendment to the approved Planned Unit Development for the Buffalo Grove Town Center to allow construction of an outdoor play area and re-location of a trash refuse area in a location originally approved for landscaping, service deliveries and pick-ups and parking. Commissioner Rosenston stated he has seen positive changes to the plan during the workshop meetings. However, he is very concerned with the need for some sort of crosswalk from the parking lot. He noted he was originally concerned with a play area in the back of the site, however, the design and buffering is such that he feels secure with the plan and feels the plan will be a positive addition to Town Center. Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows: AYES: Rosenston, Lundine, Trilling, Goldspiel NAYES: Krug, Samuels, Ottenheimer ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Howard, Berman Chairman Goldspiel asked if anyone cared to state why they voted no. Commissioner Ottenheimer stated he commends Melvin Simon& Associates for accommodating the changes and concerns the commission has had. However, he stated he has a problem with the playground in the back. In addition, the crossing of the road to get in and out is a major concern as is the proximity of the dumpsters to the playground. Chairman Goldspiel stated he is not too concerned with pedestrian traffic issues. However, he is concerned with the trash area proximity and the grimness of the play area. He noted that this will, however, be a facility that will be of use to the residents of the community. Commissioner Rosenston stated he is putting faith in the company because they would not pick a site with problems which would lead to failure. If there are problems, parents would not put their children in the center and corrections will be made. APTAKISIC SAND AND GRAVEL COMPANY PROPERTY. SOUTHWEST CORNER OF APTAKISIC ROAD/MILWAUKEE AVENUE, ECD COMPANY. INC. - ANNEXATION WITH INDUSTRIAL.B-3 PLANNED BUSINESS DISTRICT AND R-9 P.U.D. ZONING AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN-WORKSHOP #2 Mr. Freedman of Ash, Anos, Freedman& Logan stated they have tried to address a number of issues raised by the Plan Commission. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1,'1995-Page 2 Mr. Greenberg of ECD Company Inc. stated the western area of the site has been designed conceptually to accommodate 100 percent office, although they would like to reserve the right to have a portion of this area to be service oriented. This area would consist of small users in the 3,000-5,000 square feet range. This design would have a maximum traffic impact and a maximum number of cars on the site. Mr. Greenberg stated one of the questions which came up at the last meeting concerned the northwestern portion of the site and whether it was in a floodway area. The engineers have now `./ had a chance to check with the latest maps which show the entire site is out of the flood plain. This area can now be used for parking on this site. Mr. Greenberg stated the second emergency access from the industrial site into the residential site is now shown on the plan. Further, he noted there have been discussions with Mr. Powell of the County Transportation Department regarding the access point along Aptakisic and it now appears they will only accommodate only one access point off of Aptakisic to service this site. Therefore, there will need to be a combined entrance and curb cut between the residential and the office/warehouse end. This is in part to accommodate the development perspectively across the street in Lincolnshire. The county's idea is to line those two access points up into a single point. Perspectively there may be enough warrants to bring a traffic light to that intersection. Mr. Greenberg noted there had also been a question as to where the property lines are and where the setbacks come from. He stated there is a total of approximately 95 feet to the first building from the property line. Under Buffalo Grove ordinance, 60 feet is the required setback between a property line and a first building and they are well in excess of the ordinance. However, whereas they are exceeding the code here by 20-25 feet, there is an area in the residential side where they are proposing a 30 foot setback as opposed to the required 35 foot setback. They are asking the commission to allow this 30 foot setback because they are expanding the setback on the commercial side. Chairman Goldspiel asked why it could not be separated by the property line. Mr. Greenberg stated the property line is set based on where the utility easement is running which in actuality was set by Lincolnshire. Commissioner Trilling suggested taking the 20 foot easement and move the property line over 5 feet which make it only 15 feet off of the residential portion and only 5 feet to the easement line on the industrial portion. Mr. Greenberg stated they will look into that. Regarding the residential site, Mr. Greenberg stated they have now provided a street which runs through the community so there are fewer homes where tandem parking would pull onto the roadway. Also they have expanded the median buffer in the roadway to create more landscaping. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 3 The buildings have been moved at greater angles so there is more variety in the streetscape. Mr. Greenberg stated they have now closed the access point on Milwaukee Avenue previously shown on the plan, making it exclusively an emergency access gate. This prevents the possibility of cut through traffic. In addition, this creates more of a security system inside the community. He noted they have now increased the number of enclosed parking spaces so the site now provides 56 enclosed parking spaces. In total there are now 252 attached spaces and 56 detached spaces for a total of 308 enclosed garages. The number of visitor spaces has been increased from \./ 213 to 230 which is in addition to the tandem spaces and there is still ample opportunity to create another 30-40 detached garages which would be landbanked in case they are needed in the future. Mr. Greenberg stated Village code requires 25 foot separations between buildings. That has now been accomplished except for three locations on the site. This happens at corner spots on the site and the separation is 15 feet. They will continue to try for more separation. Mr. Greenberg stated this development has been targeted from the beginning to attract empty nesters, singles, transferees and the corporate market. All the service packages and amenities have been geared for this type of market. They have tried to design the units to ensure they would be attractive to the mature market and discourage rentals by younger families. This is an upscale development and will price families with young children out of the market. To further this end, they have removed the basketball court from the plan, all units are split plans with no side- by-side bedrooms, oversized whirlpool tubs have been added and they are proposing this community be a gated community. There would be a keycard access for residents as they drive into the community. Visitors would be allowed in only after video monitoring and the clubhouse will have a very formal and elegant look which will speak to a mature market. In the retail development, Mr. Greenberg stated they have now modified the plan to reflect all Buffalo Grove requirements. They are proposing an 80 foot setback for the closest residential building and a 30 foot landscaped buffer all along the back of the commercial parcel to create additional separation between the residential and the retail section. He stated there are, however, a couple of variations in setback from the residential and commercial areas. There is one building which is set back 30 feet from the residential property line, and a building setback of 25 feet as opposed to the required 35 foot requirement occurs on the residential portion of the plan abutting the commercial parcel. Mr. Greenberg stated they have tried to choose the highest traffic count uses for the commercial in order to show the maximum impact on the site. He further noted the plan shows a 25 foot setback from the future right-of-way line after additional improvements are made to Milwaukee Avenue. Chairman Goldspiel noted the Village has been moving toward more than a 25 foot setback from major arterials. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 4 Mr. Pfeil stated the minimum zoning standard is 25 feet in the B-3 district and the Village has generally tried to achieve a larger setback along arterials when reviewing new projects. Mr. Greenberg stated the traffic study recommends an additional left hand turn lane be provided traveling northbound along Milwaukee to westbound Aptakisic. He stated as part of that recommendation and because they would be a party to the traffic impact, they would be willing to pay the pro-rata share that would be necessary and appropriate. `./ Mr. Greenberg further stated the phase I environmental report indicates there is no warranted concerns of environmental problems on this site. Mr. Freedman reiterated that they are showing retail plans in concept only and have no plans to develop the area in the fashion shown. He stated they have shown it in the most intense fashion in order to be conservative in traffic and other estimates. He stated they anticipate that as part of the annexation agreement the retail would have to come back to the commission for approvals at such time as development begins. Commissioner Krug asked if there is any way to make the connection to the Rogers Center development. Mr. Greenberg stated there is a floodway and marsh which separates the two and it would not be possible. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there would be any loading docks at the industrial site. Mr. Greenberg stated the concept plan anticipates 100 percent office so those buildings will be divided up differently and there would probably be a court in the office area to provide for trash and other services. Mr. Freedman stated they would come back for approval once they get particular users for the site. He noted they showed the plan as all office for calculation purposes. Commissioner Rosenston asked if there was any way to get rid of the lot line problems along the east side of the site to get rid of the variances. He further stated the biggest problem with this entire plan is having only one entrance to the whole site, especially for the residential development which will have the commercial around it. People will be trying to get out in the mornings to go to work at the same time people are coming into the development. Mr. Freedman stated they cannot change what the county will do. He stated that they can possibly design something internally to alleviate problems. Due to this constraint, Commissioner Rosenston stated he has strong concerns with what goes into the industrial office development. He further stated he dislikes forcing all the traffic onto Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 5 Aptakisic which will then go southbound on Milwaukee. Chairman Goldspiel agreed with Commissioner Rosenston on the Milwaukee traffic issue and the Aptakisic intersection. Commissioner Samuels agreed that dual access is desirable and noted if the community is to be gated, it would cut out any cut through traffic. He also agreed that a site of this size should not require any variances and it would be best to adjust property lines. He stated the buffering between the two sites needs to be addressed. He stated what is on the plan does not seem to allow for an serious berming or screening between the residential and commercial sites. He stated the design of the units is very good and agreed that they do present themselves as a more mature type of unit. Commissioner Ottenheimer stated he is not happy with the phase I environmental study. He stated the language is still very vague and would like some further study. Mr. Freedman stated all consultants will use this kind of language. He stated that if any additional environmental studies are required,they will do so,but generally a phase II study is not done unless the phase I contains something that justifies such further study. He stated they will do whatever tests are necessary to prove to themselves there are no problems. Commissioner Trilling concurred with access problems off the site. He questioned whose decision it was to use the Milwaukee access for emergency use only. Mr. Greenberg stated it was their decision in a desire to get access on Aptakisic from the county which requires shutting off second Milwaukee access. Commissioner Goldspiel stated they must concentrate on the internal circulation on the commercial piece. Commissioner Trilling asked what the reason was for putting in the emergency access to the residential site. Mr. Greenberg stated the county's position is that if you have one major access point off of Milwaukee, they will not allow any access along Aptakisic. Therefore,they decided to shut off the Milwaukee Avenue access to the residential in order to gain an access on Aptakisic. Mr. Freedman stated it would be best to have their traffic consultant meet with the Village consultant to try to come up with some sort of solution to the problems raised. Chairman Goldspiel stated one solution on the commercial property might be to have larger commercial uses. He stated that the office, residential and commercial plan all hinge on the access issue. He noted that may require a change in uses to get something that works. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 6 Commissioner Rosenston stated it is crucial to get access. Without two complete accesses, one off of each road, this entire project is a wash. He further noted it may be a good idea to get a realistic idea of uses for the commercial property, given the limitations of access and circulation. Commissioner Lundine stated unless the road access is straightened out he cannot see allowing all three uses. Commissioner Samuels asked if the sight has sufficient depth to support some kind of a frontage `./ service drive along Milwaukee. Mr. Freedman stated they have not yet analyzed that as yet. Chairman Goldspiel stated he is very concerned with a third multi family development in the area which is not tied to the rest of the community. He stated this is made even worse by proposing a gated community. He stated his conclusion is that there is just too much here on this plan. Commissioner Samuels stated he disagrees with Chairman Goldspiel regarding the gating concept. He stated the gating helps to address the school's issues with regard to encouraging undue potential for overburdening the school system and it eliminates cut through traffic. He stated this eastern end of the Village is somewhat isolated from the rest of the Village by the railroad tracks as are other parcels along this area. If the Village is to expand to the east, it will not be able to integrate it into the rest of the Village and it would be wrong to insist on that kind of integration. He noted there is a continuity with the other plans on the concept plan for the area. Therefore, this is not necessarily a bad use simply because of some isolation factor. Commissioner Trilling noted he is concerned with the yard waste recycling facility immediately to the south of this site which will ultimately affect some 300 residents. Commissioner Krug stated he originally thought this development would be isolated without any identity to the Village. However, he now concurs with Commissioner Samuels and stated that if the Village wants to expand to the east, there will be some isolation which will hopefully be mitigated by some of the future developments on the east side of Milwaukee Avenue. He further stated he did not believe the development would generate very many children for the school district nor would it be a large burden on police or fire and it would be a good addition to the Village. Commissioner Rosenston concurred with Commissioners Krug and Samuels, stating there are two distinct parts to the Village and both are developing differently. He stated this area needs to be developed in the context of what is there and how it fits together. He noted there would be a definite market for empty nesters and the impact of children on the schools will be minimal. He noted it may be that an elaborate residential use without too much retail or office is what is needed here. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 7 Commissioner Ottenheimer stated the impact on the school district may be greater than expected. Given the way the Buffalo Grove community is developing there may be quite an impact on the schools. In addition the access issue is a condition precedent to the type of development allowed here. Commissioner Krug stated he has heard about the impact on the school district for many years. He stated the school districts are here to support the children. This facility will not greatly impact the school district and even if it was all single family, the purpose is to provide for the children. `/ This development will probably create more tax dollars than children considering the industrial and commercial and pricey residences to be built. The school districts can manage and if they have to tighten their belts, so be it. He stated there will not be many children from this development and there are always some children leaving the district. Commissioner Samuels stated he is confident in both the school district administration and the board to handle whatever impact this particular development has. He stated he assumes they can handle the Boznos property, if that should ever occur because it has been on the comprehensive plan and should have been accounted for. He further stated the net impact of this development will be positive as far as the tax base is concerned. He noted the level of funding for the children in the district is among the highest in the State and even if it is watered down somewhat there will not be much harm. It may mean the school district may have to use some fiscal management to spread the dollars, but it does not make a crisis. Chairman Goldspiel stated not every neighborhood matures at the same time and timing is something to look at with the schools. He stated he agrees with Commissioner Samuels that the number of children of rental communities, expensive or not, has been very small. He noted the advantage District 102 has is that it has the benefit of a sound tax base to help out. Chairman Goldspiel stated he was willing to go along with this development as long as it could be integrated with a neighborhood. His intention to integrate was behind the discussion about bikepaths that would somehow connect with the railroad station property and a system that would bring other people in. He stated he also feels the gates will make no difference to the number of children from this development which will be negligible. However, turning this into a gated community cuts it off from the western portion of the Village but from other people everywhere. He stated he is troubled by three high density rental developments in the same area and all separated from the rest of the Village. All of this departs entirely from the whole planning concept which was diversity within the community and diversity of housing types. Mr. Freedman stated that at the earliest hearing discussions were held of the serious site constraints within the standpoint of the gravel pits, etc. which would make it prohibitive to develop as entirely industrial and this was the premise they came in on. That was the initial driving force in planning to secure a large portion of the land for residential use. Mr. Greenberg stated that from an engineering standpoint this development is feasible and have Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1,T995-Page 8 now confirmed that the pilings would be successful and the utilities are feasible using conventional techniques with some modification. Dr. Douglas Parks, Superintendent of District 102, stated their objective was that this property was not zoned for residential in the Village's long range plan. He stated their projections in the school district reflect residential areas in the areas that are zoned residential but not in other such zoning. Chairman Goldspiel stated they are not changing the zoning. This is planning which is different from zoning. Dr. Parks stated the intended use was not as specified here. He stated the district does not claim this to be a crisis or an overall long term horrible impact on the schools, but it is an impact. The schools are planned very carefully to match what has been reflected in the Village's long range plan. Whenever that changes, it does have a negative impact on the schools. The potential range of enrollment in this subdivision of between 6-55 kids does not sound enormous but when you are getting near capacity, especially when you are looking at the other significant areas for development in the Village, this number does make a significant amount of difference. Dr. Parks suggested that the major issue on this development is children and making sure there are appropriate educational facilities for the children that have been planned for. When the long range plans change, then the space available in the school district is interrupted significantly. He stated the District 21 comparison was interesting. Demographics have changed significantly in the last few years and the rapid decline in enrollment isn't forecast into the future. The re-population of existing housing is something to consider and that is also a part of District 102's demographic studies. Chairman Goldspiel noted this package includes commercial, office and residential and asked if the commercial and office package would not help with a tax base for the benefit of the schools district. Dr. Parks stated once they know the proposed EAD of this property he would be better able to get some numbers. Clearly, however, the more kids there are, the less clear revenue will be received by the district. Chairman Goldspiel stated that was something to think about for the public hearing. Commissioner Rosenston asked if more kids are not generated from ownership units than rental units. Dr. Parks stated over the years that was true but times are changing, demographics are changing and home ownership is becoming more complicated and difficult for young families and rental properties are beginning to generate more children than they have previously. He noted single Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 9 parent households are on the rise and many times with both parents working,this type of enclosed community may prove very attractive to such families. Fredi Schmutte, President of School Board 102, stated the board has embarked on an in depth long range planning process before the referendum. There demographics and statics for this site were based on figures without any residential on this site. She stated Commissioner Samuels' comment that a few more kids would make no difference was incorrect because the schools, which may have the physical space to accommodate additional children, would not be able to `./ deliver the educational services they now enjoy and the number of students per class would rise. If more and more children are added, they will not be able to continue to deliver the quality and kind of education that this community demands. The goal is to become a world class school district and the projections were based on material they were given. This site was planned as commercial and industrial, not residential. She further noted that should the Village annex this site, it makes it somewhat easier to jump Milwaukee Avenue and annex the Boznos property. She stated they are very concerned about the impact of the accommodation of additional residential space planned for the Village as well as the re-population of existing neighborhoods. She noted people move here because of the schools and younger people will move to rental housing because they do not have the money for a down payment but they want their kids to get into the best school district. Barb Newmark, Co-president of District 102 PTO, stated she was appealing to the commission not to consider this plan as all their demographic studies were based on this site becoming strictly commercial and industrial. When developers build in District 102, families will come and it will be the children who will suffer. She noted there is a petition with 400 signatures against this kind of development and urged that this plan not be considered. Chairman Goldspiel asked if the Boznos property was taken into the district's planning. Ms. Newmark stated the demographer received information based on administration discussions with the Village president and planner of Lincolnshire. They were told that property was planned for a mixed use development compatible to Rivershire which does not generate children. It was on that basis that the demographer made his projections. Dr. Parks stated they used the process of taking a 20 year span and breaking it up into 5 years with 1,000 units projected overall and 50 units per year. That limited amount was included in the demographics for the school district. The long term plan for the Boznos property is now a different concept than originally proposed. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there is a timing issue. Dr. Parks stated if everything in that long range plan comes to pass in the next four years, the school district is in serious trouble. If the plan is extended over a longer period of time the district will be better able to handle the problem. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 10 Chairman Goldspiel asked if there has been any discussion about school donation. Dr. Parks stated there has not been any such discussion. If this development comes to pass, discussion will, of course, begin. Karen Danenberg, 20 Copperwood, stated this development would be better served with office space and a hotel similar to that in Lincolnshire. The one access off Aptakisic would then be sufficient. Jennifer Alfring, 20574 Eugene, Prairie View, stated she has five children in the district, of which three a learning disabled and require special education services. She stated these services will be affected if the school district is required to tighten its belt as proposed by Commissioners Krug and Samuels. She stated she has a real concern with where the budget will tightened and where the money will be pulled from. Commissioner Krug stated it can be done. He stated there will be children going out of the school district as well as those coming into the school district. He stated it was done in District 21 where the explosion was much greater than what this development will create. Beth Nudelman, 708 Juneway Avenue, Deerfield, stated she also has a child with special needs. She stated the needs of these children are not always met event now as there is a shortage of professionals needed to help these children. More kids will come in because of this rental housing as this is a wonderful school district. The schools function great on 23-24 kids per class but will not function as well with 30 in a class, especially with children with special needs who do require more attention. The physical size of the rooms will become a problem, let alone the amount of work expected from the teachers. Commissioner Krug stated he had children with special needs and at that time there was no provision in state law that required the school district to provide such help. He stated he knows what it is like to get help. He stated he and his wife fought in Springfield, in the district and locally to get legislation which states the school district must provide for those children with special needs. He noted his child had to go to Summit school in East Dundee because District 21 did not provide such services. Now these services are available and the district will not let the children down. If District 102 is such a wonderful district, it would be nice to open it up to more people to have the opportunity to take advantage of its services. Chairman Goldspiel asked how long of a build out the residential portion of this development would have. Mr. Greenberg stated some units would come on line approximately 7-8 months after construction was started and all 308 units would come on line in approximately 18-20 months. Chairman Goldspiel noted the following items needed to be addressed further: Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 11 1. Access to both internal circulation and to major arterials as well as the question regarding ingress and egress to the entire development 2. Consideration to the nature of the community-whether it is to be gated or not 3. Donation to school district 4. Consideration to setbacks and variances 5. Realistic users for office/commercial and industrial based on traffic patterns 6. Some in depth examination of the site plan itself in order to resolve obvious problems Mr. Pfeil noted that the site plan is still conceptual concerning the office and retail portions of the site. In the residential area, more specific site planning is needed for items such as the detached garages to verify that adequate sight lines for traffic visibility will be provided. Specific dimensions all setbacks and separations between buildings will be needed as the plan becomes more refined. Mr. Greenberg stated he would like to get a sense as to whether there is some sort of endorsement for the land uses proposed on the plan. Chairman Goldspiel asked for a polling of the Commission concerning the proposed land uses, assuming that access issues are resolved. The polling concerning whether or not the proposed land uses are acceptable was as follows: YES: Krug, Rosenston, Samuels, Ottenheimer NO: Lundine, Goldspiel ABSTAIN: Trilling Chairman Goldspiel stated he agrees to the commercial/office but does not agree to the residential part of the plan, which is too dense. Commissioner Lundine noted he is concerned with the industrial and retail portions of the plan. He said the industrial part of the plan on the west side is just too jammed together relative to the residential area. STONE CREEK SUBDIVISION(INDECK) -FINAL PLAT Moved by Commissioner Samuel, seconded by Commissioner Krug to recommend approval of the Final Plat of the Stone Creek Subdivision dated October 17, 1995, subject to inclusion of required angles on the plat. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 12 Chairman Goldspiel asked if Village staff had reviewed the plat for closure and compliance with the preliminary plan. Mr. Pfeil stated the Village Engineer has represented that the plat closes and complies with the preliminary plan. He noted that the plat is lacking proper angles, and this will be corrected and then checked by the Village Engineer. In addition,the Village Engineer commented that the reference to chains and links instead of feet indicates that the deed on the property is very old and title to the property has not been transferred very often, so a more updated survey and legal description has not been developed. Chairman Goldspiel asked if the 25 foot setback is sufficient. Mr. Pfeil stated that is the zoning minimum but the preliminary plan has larger setbacks to the building and the preliminary plan will dictate the actual setbacks on the property. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there will not be an access easement to the north. Mr. Pfeil stated that is correct. The only reason that would have been necessary would have been relative to the bikepath connection which would happen offsite from right-of-way to park district property so there is no easement needed from this property. Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows: AYES: Krug, Rosenston, Lundine, Ottenheimer, Trilling, Goldspiel NAYES: None ABSTAIN: Samuels ABSENT: Howard,Berman The motion passed 6 to 0. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT-None FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE Mr. Pfeil stated the next regular meeting will be held on November 15, 1995. PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS -None STAFF REPORT -None NEW BUSINESS - None ADJOURNMENT Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 13 Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Ottenheimer and carried unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Goldspiel adjourned the meeting at 11:35 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Fay Rubin, Re or ing Secretary APPROVED BY: o �l N GOL IEL, Ch rman Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-November 1, 1995-Page 14