1995-08-02 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
August 2, 1995
Chevy Chase Maintenance Facility, Wheeling Park District
Johnson Drive/Northgate Parkway
Annexation with Residential Estate Special Use Zoning
and approval of a Preliminary Plan -- Workshop #2
Jacobs Homes, Proposed Rezoning from the B-i Limited
Retail District to the B-2 General Retail District and
Approval of a Preliminary Plan for a car wash and a
Future Commercial Use, Southeast corner of
Weiland Road/Aptakisic Road -- Workshop #1
Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 7: 30 p.m. in the
Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50
Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Ms. Howard
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Berman
Mr. Lundine
Mr. Ottenheimer
Mr. Trilling
Commissioners absent: Mr. Rosenston
Also present: Mr. John Bosman, Sente & Rubel Ltd.
Mr. Keith Jacobs, Jacobs Homes
Mr. John Green, Systems Design Group
Mr. Richard Vane, Systems Design Group
Ms. Deann Glover, Village Trustee
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Krug, seconded by Commissioner Lundine to
approve the minutes of the regular meeting of July 19, 1995. Mr.
Bosman of Sente & Rubel noted required changes in his statement on
page 4, paragraph 2 and Chairman Goldspiel noted a typographical
error on page 19. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion
and the motion passed unanimously with Commissioners Samuels and
Trilling abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Mr. Pfeil stated the Village Board meeting of July 24, 1995
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 1
approved the P.U.D. Amendment for the Town Center approving the
theater use relative to the parking additions needed.
CHEVY CHASE MAINTENANCE FACILITY. WHEELING PARK DISTRICT, JOHNSON
DRIVE - ANNEXATION WITH RESIDENTIAL ESTATE - SPECIAL USE ZONING
AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN -- WORKSHOP #1
Mr. John Bosman reviewed the plan relative to the issues brought
out at the first workshop meeting. He stated the material bin
enclosure is showing a height of 6 feet, 4 inches above the
existing grade in the same material as the building material which
is a split face concrete block which will stained to match. He
further noted they may want to adjust to height of the bin another
two feet. However, the bin would not be higher than eight feet.
Mr. Bosman reviewed the bin elevations in relation to the building
height which is a very low structure in comparison to the
building. The one story industrial building across the street
will see only a low profile, unobtrusive structure.
Mr. Bosman stated the roof top unit for heating and cooling is in
the center of the building and will have no visibility in a
straight on view. In a perspective view it will be a minimum
exposure. The unit is approximately 3 1/2 feet tall by 5 feet
deep and 3 feet wide.
Mr. Bosman noted the Commission had requested a landscape plan
which shows a green space around all the paved areas for a minimum
of 15 feet which will be landscaped with evergreens as well as
deciduous trees. There will be a 3 foot green space in front of
the building that will be planted with both ground cover and
evergreens. To the east, the material storage has been pulled in
to allow for a 15 foot green space.
Mr. Bosman further stated they have moved the front property line
to a 50 foot setback in response to the Commission's concerns with
setbacks. In the rear they have created a 100 foot setback across
the width of the building plus some additional space to the sides.
In addition, there is also the 15 foot green space around the
entire perimeter of the paved areas.
Mr. Bosman stated they have removed any references to parking lot
detention which was a holdover from Lake County's review which had
insisted upon parking lot detention. There is now compensatory
storage provided for the entire site. Because the impervious area
being increased is less than 1/2 acre, no additional storage
detention is required.
Chairman Goldspiel asked for staff comment on the detention.
Mr. Pfeil stated verified the Village Engineer is aware of the
less than 1/2 acre computation and agrees that the Lake County
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 2
Stormwater Management ordinance states you are exempt from
providing onsite detention if there is less than 1/2 acre
involved. He further stated the Village ordinance does not
explicitly allow that exemption. However, Buffalo Grove is a
certified community under the Lake County Stormwater Management
system and Mr. Kuenkler believes in flexibility. Therefore, if
there is documentation that there will not be any impact on the
regional drainage system, the County ordinance is valid and worth
using in a case such as this.
Mr. Bosnian stated they have re-routed the cart path by eliminating
the path on the northeast side by the storage bins and the
existing cart path which circles the lake is no longer used. He
stated there are new cart paths which come to the center area of
the existing parking lot. From that point the cart path will be
extended to the northwest on the north side of the building and
then reconnect it to an existing cart path which is now on the
west side of the creek via the new bridge.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he has a new concern with the cart path
being in the landscape setback.
Mr. Bosman stated the six foot wide cart path runs adjacent to the
five foot green space. There is then a landscaped area which
surrounds the tee and green in that area. There is a five foot
green space between the parking lot and the cart path.
Commissioner Ottenheimer asked if the Park District is exempt from
property taxes and other taxes to the Village.
Mr. Pfeil stated he believes this land would be tax exempt
although he will have to check this out more thoroughly.
Mr. Bosnian stated their engineer has specified the Lake County
Stormwater Management Commission has the main jurisdiction for
this area. IDOT's Department of Water Ways are delegated to Lake
County as this is unincorporated space. He further stated there
are no Army Corp requirements. He stated the only other
requirement would be the IUPA's requirement for a sanitary sewer
connection.
Mr. Bosnian noted the Special Use criteria would be presented at
the Public Hearing.
Commissioner Krug asked if the catch basin at the storage bins
runs into the sanitary sewer or stormsewer.
Mr. Bosnian stated they would not normally run a catch basin of
that nature with the storage of these particular materials into
the sanitary sewer. He noted he would have to check this out more
thoroughly.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 3
Commissioner Krug stated he would like this to be checked out
carefully due to the materials stored and exactly where the catch
basin drains.
Commissioner Berman stated his concern with the concept in
planning of this development. He noted this is a very oddly
shaped parcel and such parcels are a problem for the Village. He
stated the Park District owns the entire parcel and could develop
same so that it did not present a future problem. He stated this
plan begs for problems in the future. He further noted his
11 concern with bringing a small parcel such as this into the Village
without any benefit to the Village. He noted this will create
planning problems in the future. He further noted the 8 foot
walls of the accessory structure are a problem for him even in
this context. He asked why Buffalo Grove should go forward with
this plan.
Mr. Bosnian stated he could not really answer that question and
would need to have someone from the Park District answer this
question. He stated he understood that from a feasibility
standpoint, this is the nearest sanitary and water service which
is part of the reason for coming to Buffalo Grove.
Commissioner Berman asked why the parcel is designed in such an
odd shaped parcel.
Mr. Bosman stated they did their best to keep the area involved to
a minimum so as to reduce the amount of floodway which would be
annexed into the Village with the potential that there would be
overlapping jurisdictions regarding that area. Lake County had
advised it would be to their best interests in design to try and
keep all of the floodway out of the annexed area and that was the
initial effort with the smaller setback. At this point some of
the floodway area is in the annexed area.
Commissioner Trilling asked if this parcel will to afforded all of
the fire and police services of any other unit in the Village.
Mr. Bosman stated yes.
Commissioner Howard noted the request by Deputy Chief Gozdecki of
the Police Department to have a stop sign posted at the exit to
the parking lot.
Mr. Bosnian stated they would certainly be amenable to installing a
stop sign.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if the portion of the drive to Johnson
Drive is outside of the Village boundaries.
Mr. Bosman stated it is his understanding that would be part of
the Village up to the right-of-way for Johnson Drive.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 4
Chairman Goldspiel stated this reconfigured parcel presents no
problem for him. He stated in the event plans change here, there
is enough space to deal with it under Residential Estate zoning.
He stated he sees no problem with annexing this small piece as an
accommodation to the Wheeling Park District, noting that Buffalo
Grove residents use the golf course and the club for various
events.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the issues which need to be addressed at
the public hearing are:
1. Destination of the catch basin, especially regarding
environmental concerns
2. Benefit to the Village
Commissioner Trilling noted it may be a good idea to have Buffalo
Grove residents get the same rates for the golf course as Wheeling
residents.
JACOBS HOMES, PROPOSED REZONING FROM THE B-1 LIMITED RETAIL
DISTRICT TO THE B-2 RETAIL DISTRICT AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY
PLAN FOR A CAR WASH AND A FUTURE COMMERCIAL USE, SOUTHEAST CORNER
OF WEILAND ROAD/APTAKISIC ROAD -- WORKSHOP #1
Mr. John Green of Systems Design Group stated the subject site is
on the southeast corner of Aptakisic Road and Weiland Road. He
stated they are requesting rezoning of the site from B-1 zoning to
B-2 or possibly B-4 based upon staff review. The purpose is to
allow development of the site with the southern 60-65 percent of
the site to be utilized as an automobile laundry or car wash and
the northern portion of the site to be developed as a second
structure which could be a drive-up restaurant facility.
Mr. Green stated the site extends approximately 360 feet north and
south and is 190 feet in width. It is bounded on the east by a 60
- foot Old Weiland Road right-of-way and is now currently a
detention basin which runs the entire length of the site on the
east side. To the east of that is a 100 foot wide railroad right
of way. Beyond that is a conglomeration of a variety of uses. To
the south is Northwest Building Materials and Supplies lumber
yard. Further to the south is the location for the Twin Rinks Ice
Center. To the west is a B-i site of approximately 4 1/2 acres
which was recently approved for a daycare center and school
development and there is undeveloped space immediately to the west
of that. To the north are a variety of parcels such as the
Rolling Hills landscaping operations, Pet Motel and several frame
residential structures. He noted the site is bounded on three
sides by unincorporated area and Lincolnshire. It is bounded on
three sides by roads. He stated the Comprehensive Plan shows the
site is the centerpiece of three parcels that are listed to be
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 5
developed commercially. On the south it is to be bounded by
Industrial and designated to be bounded on the north across
Aptakisic Road by residential. Weiland Road is in to this
particular intersection with Aptakisic. Under the long term
traffic plan, Weiland Road is scheduled to be extended to the
north and then to swing toward the west and then tie into Prairie
Road.
Mr. Green stated the site currently allows for 55 different
commercial type uses. It was previously approved in 1990 for
development of a 22,000 square foot building materials and supply
facility.
Mr. Green stated this proposal was presented to the Board on July
10, 1995 for rezoning to allow a full service car wash facility.
The plan presented to the Trustees was reviewed and Mr. Green
stated there was a great deal of feedback from the Board at that
time which has led to the revised plan.
Mr. Green reviewed the proposed plan which takes into
consideration the residential properties on the south and west.
In conjunction with good onsite traffic flow design, they have
endeavored to develop the full west end of the site with a 25 foot
landscaped yard. All traffic flow is on the east side of the site
which leaves the west end available for landscaping. This keeps
all the traffic flow, stacking, parking and all the services on
the east side of the site, using the landscaping and building to
screen them. At the same time, the site has been aligned for
maximum on site stacking storage so that offsite problems are
minimized.
Mr. Green stated the plan allows for a continuation of the traffic
along the east side all the way up to Aptakisic Road as the phase
2 portion of the plan is developed. It also allows for
development as remote as possible from the intersection for right-
in right-out only onto Aptakisic which will help to facilitate the
good offsite traffic flow, restrict crossover opportunities from
Aptakisic, eliminate any need for access from Weiland and provide
for dual access once the whole site is developed. The plan
maximizes onsite stacking, maximizes clean lines of site for the
uses, maximizes the ease of observation of the site and on the
site and within the facilities for security and eliminates any
crossover traffic flow on the site.
Mr. Green stated the concept of car washes has come a long way and
reviewed a photograph of an upper end, high quality facility which
carries with it an architecture, scale, scope and feeling that is
sensitive to the site and good architecture. He stated that is
what they intend to develop.
Mr. Richard Vane of Systems Design Group stated the detention
facility will be in conjunction with an existing pond east of the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 6
site. They are proposing to expand that detention area to
accommodate the impervious area from this site. The detention
area will be in accordance with Village standards and the Lake .
County Stormwater Management requirements. He stated they are
picking up the parking lot and stormsewers and taking them to the
detention facilities and expanding the facility by providing a two
foot retaining wall to increase the volume that currently exists
there to maximize the usage of the existing facility. The water
main already exists on Weiland Road and they will come across
Weiland and tie in for water service. There is a sanitary sewer
stub at Old Farm Village which will now be used by the daycare
center. There is an existing stormsewer there and an existing
easement there. The sanitary sewer will be extended through that
easement and then along Weiland Road and then crossing to service
the site. An extra manhole will be provided to service any
potential phase 2 uses.
III
Mr. Vane stated they have been very sensitive to Weiland Road in
pushing the access away from Weiland Road and utilizing Old
Weiland Road which is a lightly used traffic situation.
Mr. Green stated there are essentially three different kinds of
layouts for all the various uses which fall under a service use,
an office or store use and a restaurant or drive up use.
Mr. Green reviewed the plan for a drive up restaurant facility
stating it would be at the northwest corner of the site. Because
of the Village ordinances for stacking, parking, turnaround, and
by-pass lanes, he noted they would be limited to 3,000 to 4,000
square feet of building space. Because of the limit of the amount
of area on the site, that would be the limit of what could be
developed. Also, it would be the intention to continue the
traffic flow along the east side, provide for the appropriate by-
pass lanes and stacking capabilities, and adjacent parking.
Mr. Green reviewed the plan for a service use which would use the
same concept as the drive up facility. This use would set back
from Weiland and again there would be a continuation of the open
space along the west portion of the site, locating as far from the
residential areas as possible. This could be an oil change
facility or tire facility that would have some office space and
storage space and three or four bays for service. They have tried
to make sure that the circular flow remains on the site with no
crossovers.
Mr. Green stated the third type of use would be store and office.
The parking would be the major issue and therefore they are
showing a one-story facility which allows only limited additional
space for parking. This would limit any development to
approximately 12,000 square feet. The B-1 zone allows for .5 FAR
and the B-2 allows for a .5 FAR. In either case, they would not
be able to get near the .5 FAR. They propose to develop this so
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 7
that the open space remains on the west portion of the site and
the east side used for the flow.
Mr. Green stated the site is a B-1 site now and they are
requesting B-2 zoning. The site itself is 1.6 acres which is
69,900 square feet. The car wash portion would occupy about
40,000 square feet or .9 acres and the other portions remaining
are about 30,000 square feet or .7 acres. The uses are lengthy
and are listed in the ordinances. The FAR allowable is .5. The
phase one FAR is .1. Even with the second use the FAR would fall
between . 2 and .3 which is roughly 60 percent. Front setback will
be the required 25 feet. There is no side yard requirement.
Allowable building height is 45 feet and the car wash building
height is approximately 20 feet. He noted they may want 500-600
feet on a second floor for office space on the east side of the
center of the building.
Mr. Green stated the parking requirement is one space per employee
for a car wash. There would be approximately 8 or 9 employees and
they have developed 13 parking spaces because there could be a
time when you may have need for additional employees. He noted
thepotential forphase two is 40 spaces.
p
Chairman Goldspiel asked for an elaboration or description of the
use.
Mr. Green stated the proposed car wash is a full service tunnel
facility. Cars would enter the site on Old Weiland Road. There
is a double stacking lane on the west side of the facility capable
of stacking 18-20 vehicles. The turn is made at the north end of
the facility where there is a canopied vacuum station. This then
merges into a single lane as they exit this area and into the car
tunnel. The wash portion of the tunnel must be a minimum of 90
feet and will be set up for approximately 100 to 110 feet. There
is an additional 30 to 40 feet for inside drying due to inclement
weather. There would also be concrete at the entrance and exit to
the facility so that the asphalt would not be torn up over time.
Support facilities would include an internal corridor system that
leads to the cashier and office space. There will be public
washrooms, office and storage space in this area. These are all
on the east side of the building. The equipment is all managed on
the center portion of the tunnel operation itself. Cars would
then exit at the south end where there is sufficient storage for
up to eight vehicles to be dried. The maximum, however, is four
vehicles that would normally need to be dried. The site is then
exited at Old Weiland Road which takes you out to Weiland Road.
Some parking is provided adjacent to the building and the balance
of the parking is provided remotely from the building.
Commissioner Lundine asked about the hours for the car wash.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 8
Mr. Green stated this is considered a destination car wash and
they anticipate operation between 7:00 a.m. to approximately 8:00
p.m. 7 days a week.
Commissioner Ottenheimer stated he has three concerns regarding:
1. Traffic safety - stacking for 18 cars may be insufficient
during peak hours and may cause an overflow onto public
thoroughfares
2 . Cars exiting back onto the thoroughfare may require some type
of traffic control device
3 . Noise from the operation car wash itself
Mr. Green stated the figure of 18 to 20 vehicles is in the
stacking space only. In addition there are two vacuuming spaces.
Exiting can handle up to 8 cars at a time and the average time
necessary for drying a car is 6-7 minutes for one person and 3-4
minutes for two people. This will factor into how many cars can
go through in an hour and the speed of the tunnel. The maximum
number of cars in one hour is 20 cars. In addition, they have
made sure there are two lanes in and one lane out. Old Weiland
Road currently only services Northwest Building Material and
Supply. Old Weiland Road, while it is a public road, really has
no real other uses on it. Old Weiland also makes the turn to the
south and continues about another 500 to 600 feet and comes back
out to Weiland Road.
Mr. Green further stated that while a stop sign may be required, a
traffic light will not be required nor would it be desired due to
its proximity to the main intersection. It would probably cause
more problems than anything else. The amount of traffic entering
and exiting just from this facility would not be very
considerable.
Mr. Green stated the noise factor will be kept down by the masonry
structure. The elements of the car wash are computerized and
totally enclosed and they do not anticipate any noise issues.
Commissioner Berman asked if the car wash will be washing more
than one car at a time.
Mr. Green stated yes because the cars are on a conveyor belt. The
difference between car wash and car laundry is that a car wash
washes one car at a time on a conveyor. An automobile laundry
washes more than one car at a time.
Commissioner Berman noted this seems to be a larger scope
operation fitting the laundry definition and should be in the B-4
use. He stated he did not think this plan is in harmony with the
area or the corridor and there are serious traffic issues. He
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 9
stated he is concerned that Weiland Road is currently a traffic
problem and the use as designed and adds a continuous flow of
additional traffic. He further stated he has a problem with the
character of the use. He noted a problem with bringing traffic
down Old Weiland Road to Weiland Road. He stated he would be more
disposed to see the entrance to the car wash north and east at
Aptakisic Road. He also noted he does not see this site as an oil
change, tire change, fast food restaurant site.
II �
Commissioner Berman further stated he is not sure it is in the
Village's interest to promote B-4 type uses in this part of the
Village.
Commissioner Berman asked if it is essential for the commercial
viability of the site to have the dual development.
Mr. Green stated yes.
Commissioner Berman asked if there will be a traffic problem with
three lanes off of Aptakisic.
Mr. Green stated Aptakisic Road is certainly a better road from a
marketing standpoint. However, the site is 190 feet wide and it
may be a problem putting a full service in and out so close to the
Weiland/Aptakisic intersection with cars crossing lanes to turn
and out.
Chairman Goldspiel injected the history of the area, noting it was
always an objective to keep right turning traffic out of the
railroad crossing area.
Commissioner Berman stated he has a problem with any driveway
proposed for Aptakisic under that premise.
Mr. Green stated this premise makes any use undevelopable on the
site.
Commissioner Berman stated that if it is not viable to put a
driveway on the northeast corner of the site then it would be
equally bad to put a driveway there for a driveup restaurant.
Mr. Green stated it is the full interchange that is an issue. A
right in and right out does not allow right turns westbound on
Aptakisic where there are stacking and delay problems.
Commissioner Berman asked if there is any facility close by
similar to the proposed plan.
Mr. Green stated the facility in Palos Hills is a two year old
facility which is very similar in technology.
Commissioner Krug asked how water dropoff from the undercarriage
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 10
of cars would be handled.
Mr. Green stated there would be an interior rumble strip as you
drive off the conveyor belt which shakes most of the water off.
In addition some of the water is dried off on the inside. This is
also best for guarding against ice buildup.
Commissioner Krug asked at what temperature would operations
cease.
Mr. Green stated he would have to find out.
Commissioner Krug asked if there would be any detailing work done
here.
Mr. Green stated there would be no body shop but would allow for
full interior cleaning and outside waxing of the car.
Commissioner Krug asked if there will be a retail operation in the
building.
Mr. Green stated there would be support items for a car such as
mats, wipers and that kind of stuff. There may also be some
vending machines set up in the waiting area.
Commissioner Krug asked how long is takes to wash a car.
Mr. Green stated 20 cars per hour can be washed during peak times
which is about 3 minutes per car.
Commissioner Krug asked if there will be outdoor speakers and
lights.
Mr. Green stated there will be outdoor lighting to meet the
ordinance requirements and all would be lit on the east side of
the building.
1
Commissioner Krug asked what type of landscaping is being
considered on the west side of the site.
Mr. Green stated it was hoped to use the building itself for
screening. A specific landscape plan has not yet been designed.
Commissioner Krug agreed that B-4 zoning is probably best for this
site. He stated he would not support any plan for development
with access off of Aptakisic which is so close to the railroad
tracks.
Commissioner Krug noted that 20 cars per hour will cause a backup
on Old Weiland Road which already has a lot of traffic in the
mornings.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 11
Commissioner Samuels asked if there are any plans for berming
along Weiland Road.
Mr. Green stated there were no such plans at this time.
Commissioner Samuels stated he would like to see something on the
signage plans since they may possibly face the residential area.
He noted it was important for this to be a first class
development. He stated this is a difficult area to develop and he
would welcome any business that will help the area both
economically and aesthetically.
Commissioner Samuels further stated he feels B-4 zoning is
probably the most appropriate for this use. However, he noted
certain uses would not be appropriate and he would like to see
further exploration of a Special Use designation to maintain
control over the phase two development.
Commissioner Samuels noted concern with stacking and asked for
more information on peak hours.
Commissioner Trilling asked for elaboration on other similar car
wash operations and what was meant by touchless car washes.
Mr. Green stated the hybrid system is used which is a touchless
method of car washing on the body and wheels and a soft cloth
method on the top of the car.
Commissioner Trilling asked for information on the water
consumption of this plan and the effect on the Village water
system for the area.
Mr. Green stated this facility would use no more than a 3 inch
main and no more water than any other permitted use.
Commissioner Trilling asked for further information on the traffic
down Weiland and how bypass traffic would flow through. He
further noted a number of new uses such as the train station which
would be starting soon and the increase in traffic problems.
Commissioner Trilling asked if the employees would be fully
clothed.
Mr. Green stated it was their goal to provide good service only
and the attendants would certainly be fully clad.
Commissioner Trilling advised keeping the signage low key. He
asked if there would be any devices used to attract business such
as balloons and such.
Mr. Green stated the use of marketing devices are usually of short
duration and he see no use for same. He noted the Village has its
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 12
limitations and restrictions and they would abide by those.
Commissioner Howard asked if the vacuuming under the canopy was
done by the customers themselves.
Mr. Green stated car wash personnel did the vacuuming.
Commissioner Howard asked how long a detailing job took.
Mr. Green stated it would take approximately 5-7 minutes for
entire car service.
II Commissioner Lundine noted three concerns:
1. Heavily lit development so that specifics on lighting needs
to be addressed
2. The type of signage which will be needed to bring people to
this development
3 . The amount of noise
Chairman Goldspiel stated this parcel was never intended as a
residential area. The question is whether this use is an
appropriate one. He stated he feels this development belongs in
the B-4 zone and traffic, light and noise should be compared to
other uses.
Chairman Goldspiel asked for an elaboration on the detention to
the east and why additional detention may be needed.
Mr. Vane stated he has spoken to the Lake County Department of
Transportation who is utilizing most of the capacity of the pond
as it exists now. There is not sufficient additional capacity to
cover the site. He stated the detention looks large but the side
slopes come down to the middle in a "V" shape instead of a rounded
bottom and thereby you are not getting a full benefit. By
extending slightly, there would be a flatter bottom which will
provide significantly more detention with very little additional
area.
Chairman Goldspiel noted concern with the design of the site plan,
particularly with regard to the drives. He stated there would be
a major conflict between the drive to and from the parking and the
drive into the car wash facility at the Old Weiland Road end of
the site. One lane that is bound towards Old Weiland will have
cars going in the opposite direction on both sides. The degree of
angle of intersection by the additional detention area is
dangerous.
Mr. Green stated he would look at that area.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 13
Chairman Goldspiel asked how a car which is being detailed get out
when all lanes go into the car wash.
Mr. Green stated he will check this out as well.
Chairman Goldspiel asked how a car will get out of the line if the
driver changes his mind about a wash as there are no bypass lanes.
Mr. Green stated some of this will be ironed out with the traffic
information which they will be looking into.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if the water used in the car wash will be
recycled.
Mr. Green stated usually recycling is not used. He stated all the
chemicals are biodegradable. He further stated all of the grease
and oil goes to a settling basin before the water is released into
the sewer. He has also been led to believe only fresh water is
used for every car wash. He stated one of the disadvantages of
the single car washes is that the recycled water is getting
dirtier and dirtier each time it is used.
Chairman Goldspiel asked how 40 to 50 gallons of water every three
minutes will impact the sewer system.
Mr. Green stated he will get that information.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he sees no problem with the masonry car
wash design which can be architecturally designed in an
aesthetically pleasing manner.
Mr. Green stated the masonry structure is necessary to maintain
proper conditions inside.
Chairman Goldspiel noted concern with the exposure of the drying
area from the southwest to the northeast. He suggested
consideration be given to appropriate berming or screening for
that area.
Chairman Goldspiel noted concern with the undefined phase two
portion of the development in that he does not find a right out to
Aptakisic to be acceptable due to the proximity of the railroad
tracks.
Mr. Green stated he too is looking forward to a traffic study to
help determine some of the traffic design for the site.
Commissioner Samuels stated that Lake County would have a say on
any driveway proposals on Aptakisic Road.
Mr. Green stated they have not explored driveway plans with Lake
County as yet and will, of course, be doing so.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 14
Commissioner Trilling stated he can see cut through traffic by
cars coming from Old Weiland Road through the car wash and going
right out onto Aptakisic as traffic gets backed out on Weiland
Road.
Barry Ruby, 1523 Madison Court, noted there is major truck traffic
coming through on Old Weiland Road currently.
Jim Gerali of Caravan Associates, 2031 N. Rand Road, Palatine,
stated he is the owner of one of the largest car washes in the
area. He stated winter is the busiest season of the year and on a
good Saturday they process 3 ,500 cars which is about 147 cars per
hour. He stated he has about 35 to 38 employees in winter, not
counting detailers.
Mr. Gerali stated the proposed 18 to 20 car stacking lanes would
be insufficient. He stated he stacks about 65 cars and sometimes
that is not even enough. He stated the average car wash uses
about 28 to 30 gallons of water per car washed.
Mr. Gerali stated the noise decibels of the blowers can average
anywhere from 95 to 105 decibels. He stated this facility being
so close to a daycare and school area would be a definite safety
issue for children.
Mr. Gerali stated this facility would be unique and fit only for a
car wash. If this car wash fails the building would need to be
demolished or extensively remodeled for another use.
Mr. Gerali stated that in order to be successful a car wash needs
a minimum of 28,000 cars of traffic. He noted the only successful
destination car wash is in California and stated this is not a
viable project.
Commissioner Berman asked if Mr. Gerali lives in the area.
Mr. Gerali stated no but he is a member of the Chamber of Commerce
in Buffalo Grove as well as five other chambers. He stated this
facility is too close to his own car wash and sits in a triangle
of three successful car washes.
Mr. Lundine asked for an elaboration on the noise level mentioned
by Mr. Gerali.
Mr. Gerali stated the noise comes from the blower which is the
final piece of equipment at the end of the tunnel. The closer it
is to the door, the more noise you would hear to the outside of
the building.
Gina Shead, 1520 Madison Drive, noted concern with the traffic,
noise, lights, fumes and safety of children who are present at the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 15
school, park and daycare center. She asked why there is so much
attention suddenly being focused on this corridor. She further
noted that water is already limited in the area during the summer
and is a concern with this type of use.
Chairman Goldspiel stated in response to the overall planning for
the area that there is both a Master Plan of the community and a
small area plan for the area now under consideration. As a result
of this small area plan, the discussions surrounding the loop road
began.
Carl Weiss, 1504 Quaker Hollow Ct. N. , stated this is an
inconsistent use for the area. He asked how big a change in
zoning is B-i to B-2 and why is this change being considered now
when same was never brought up at the Village board meeting.
Maria Bryzinski, 1529 Madison Ct. , stated she does not see how a
car turning on Old Weiland Road to get to the car wash can get out
of Old Weiland Road if they suddenly decide they do not want to
wait. She further noted that trucks sometimes park on Old Weiland
Road until they are loaded or unloaded. This will create quite a
traffic jam for the car wash.
Scott Wagman, 260 Stanton Ct. E. , stated he lives with the traffic
everyday and has seen the peak hour traffic in the area. With the
coming of the ice rink, a recreation center and the daycare
center, there will be even more traffic.
Bob Cohen, 1510 Quaker Hollow N. , asked what needs to be developed
in phase two in order to make this project worthwhile. He stated
he would like some further information on this issue.
Mr. Greenlee, 272 Stanton, stated the main concern is employees.
Between the ice rink, the junior high and the White Hen Pantry,
there is plenty of opportunity for low paid employees to start
selling drugs.
Chairman Goldspiel noted the items to be addressed at the next
meeting consist of:
1. B-4 Special Use or limited use
2. Traffic flow and information, both onsite, at site and
offsite
3 . Water and sewer flow usage and capacity
4 . Signage
5. Noise translation to the exterior and air quality
6. Lighting and landscaping
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 16
7. Drying program and method
8. Entry/exit points
9. Detail on exit ways/bypasses options within the facility
10. Water storage disposal information
I'I 11. Detention reconfiguration
12. Volume of business for this use and limitations on phase two
Chairman Goldspiel asked Mr. Pfeil for some kind of planning
information showing the area of draw for a car wash such as this.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT - None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated there will be a regular meeting on August 16,
1995.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS - None
STAFF REPORT - None
NEW BUSINESS - None
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further comments or questions from anyone else
present, Chairman Goldspiel closed the meeting at 10:40 p.m.
Res ctfully mitted,
Fay Ru n, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
L
S EP EN GOLDSPIEL, Chairman
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-August 2, 1995-Page 17
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