1995-02-15 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
February 15, 1995
The Wilkins Property, west side of Prairie Road adjoining
the Carlyle Subdivision - Proposed Annexation with R-3 Zoning
and approval of a Preliminary Plan for seven single-family
lots - Workshop #1
Regulation of Amusement Devices -- Workshop #2
Community Planning Issues -- Discussion
Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal
Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Ms. Howard
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Berman
Commissioners absent: None
Also present: Mr. Scott Inbinder, Indevco Inc.
Mr. Richard Burton, Land Consultants
Mr. Don Fielding, Charles Greengard
Associates Inc.
Mr. Harold Jacobs, Attorney
Mr. Harlan Miller, Kogan Development
Mr. John Marienthal, Village Trustee
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner
Krug to approve the minutes of the public hearing and regular
meeting of February 1, 1995. Commissioner Berman noted a
correction on page 3 of the public hearing. Chairman
Goldspiel noted a correction on page 5 of the public hearing.
Chairman Goldspiel asked that paragraph 2, page 4 of the
regular meeting be checked for accuracy. Commissioner Krug
asked for a correction on page 11 of the regular minutes.
All Commissioners were in favor of the motion as amended and
the motion passed unanimously with Commissioner Howard
abstaining.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 1
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Krug said he was unable to attend the Village
Board meeting of February 13, 1995.
Mr. Pfeil noted the following items that were discussed by
the Village Board:
1. Checker Drive speed limit was reduced to 25 mph and
signage will be installed at the Busch Road intersection
with Checker Drive stating "local traffic only" . There
may also be some modification to the traffic signals on
Route 83 and Busch to try allocate more green light time
to turns onto Route 83 and less time for through traffic
entering Checker Drive. Signs will also be installed on
northbound Arlington Heights Road prohibiting right
turns onto Checker Drive in the morning peak traffic
period.
2 . Ordinance requiring bike helmets to be worn by children
was not approved, but the Village Board will consider a
resolution at the next meeting.
THE WILKINS PROPERTY, WEST SIDE OF PRAIRIE ROAD ADJOINING
THE CARLYLE SUBDIVISION - PROPOSED ANNEXATION WITH R-3
ZONING -- WORKSHOP #1
Mr. Scott Inbinder of Indevco stated the 2.7-acre parcel is
currently zoned Estate by Lake County and they are proposing
to build 7 single family home sites on the property with an
average lot size of 12,720 feet. He stated that variations
to allow 30 feet for rear yards instead of 40 feet for all of
the lots and 25-foot front yards instead of 30 feet for two
of the seven lots are requested. Mr. Inbinder stated the R-3
zoning is relatively consistent with all surrounding uses.
Mr. Richard Burton of Land Consultants Inc. stated the parcel
is bounded on all four sides by Buffalo Grove. To the east
is the Town and Country project, to the north is the
Woodlands at Fiore and to the west and south is the Carlyle
subdivision.
Mr. Burton noted that when the Carlyle subdivision was
approved, a 60-foot street right-of-way was platted
connecting to the west side of the site. This provides access
for the property to Carlyle Lane. No access to Prairie Road
is proposed. He said that the proposed access from Carlyle
Lane will be a cul-de-sac.
Mr. Burton stated that the north-south dimensions of the site
are a constraint in creating conforming R-3 lots, and this is
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 2
the reason that the requested variations are necessary to
accommodate a 52 foot square building box on the lots. He
noted that by curving the cul-de-sac, they have been able to
eliminate many variations on the eastern portion of the site.
However, the restrictions on the western portion of the site
require the requested variations.
Mr. Burton stated the proposed roadway is a full 60-foot
width. He noted the home on lot 7 will be facing the cul-de-
sac so that the front yard could be considered a corner side
yard.
Mr. Burton stated the site drains generally to the west and
there are existing inlets to drain stormwater to the existing
offsite detention at Carlyle which has sufficient capacity to
store the proposed drainage.
Chairman Goldspiel stated that he does not consider a lot
with a 30-foot backyard and 25-foot front yard as an R-3 lot.
Mr. Burton stated the rationale is the fact that these are
10,000 square foot minimum lots with an average lot
of 12,700 square feet and a density which fits within the R-3
category.
Chairman Goldspiel asked the size of the footprint planned
for this project.
Mr. Burton stated the footprint is a 52-foot square building
box. He further noted this plan seemed like a suitable
transition from the Carlyle subdivision.
Mr. Inbinder stated this is a very narrow site at 264 feet
width running north and south. Once a 60 foot right-of-way
is put in, there is some difficulty in creating a building
box to accommodate a house comparable to those found at
Carlyle. Therefore the request for a variation on rear yards
became necessary.
Commissioner Howard asked if there will be sidewalks on both
sides of the street.
Mr. Inbinder stated there will be sidewalks on both sides of
the road as well as around the cul-de-sac.
Commissioner Howard asked for an explanation regarding lot 32
in Carlyle as noted in Mr. Pfeil's memo of February 10, 1995.
Mr. Inbinder stated the size and configuration of lot 32 may
make a subdivision into two lots possible and access to
Brandywyn Lane could be provided.
Mr. Burton stated lot 32 was part of the Carlyle subdivision
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 3
and the future of the parcel was set with the approval of the
Carlyle plan. He further noted if the proposed cul-de-sac is
pulled down into lot 32, it would leave one 99-foot lot and
then the question becomes whether to run the cul-de-sac down
the back of the existing homes or do extend it out parallel
to Prairie. In any case, if the cul-de-sac is extended to
that parcel, it is doubtful if two homesites could be
accomplished.
Commissioner Rosenston noted concern with 30 foot rear yards
and 25 foot front yards and asked if it would help if
sidewalks were on one side of the street only.
Mr. Burton stated front yards could be increased to 30 feet
and backyards to 35 feet if the right-of-way is reduced to 50
feet. He also noted that the front yards could be 25 feet
and with the rear yards increasing to 40 feet.
Mr. Burton also stated there are at least three lots, namely
lots 1, 4 and 6 which can meet all R-3 standards.
Commissioner Rosenston asked if the developer could use a
smaller building box for the homes.
Mr. Burton stated that would begin to effect marketability of
the homesites.
Mr. Inbinder stated they would like to stay consistent with
the immediate area.
Mr. Burton further noted the trustees had asked them to look
into side yards and they are providing wider sideyards which
will help the streetscape.
Commissioner Rosenston asked what the standard side yards are
at the Carlyle subdivision.
Mr. Pfeil stated the Carlyle side yards are a minimum of 8
feet, which is 10 percent of the R-3 minimum lot width of 80
feet.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the drainage for lot 32 is part
of the Carlyle subdivision and detention.
Mr. Pfeil said he is certain that the Carlyle basin was sized
to accommodate drainage from lot 32, but he is not sure that
actual grading or storm sewer work was done to make water
from lot 32 flow to the basin.
Mr. Inbinder stated that his engineer has determined that the
detention basin at Carlyle will accommodate for this site.
Commissioner Samuels noted that this will have to be
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 4
verified.
Mr. Fielding of Charles Greengard Associates stated the
detention basin at the Carlyle subdivision is sufficient to
pick up all the detention for the proposed project, and he
said the basin was sized to accommodate lot 32 in Carlyle.
Commissioner Samuels stated that eliminating lot 7 from the
proposed plan would eliminate the need for any variations.
Mr. Inbinder stated they have already eliminated from their
original plan and eliminating another lot would preclude them
from building this project at all.
Commissioner Berman asked if there would be anything to gain
by building this project as an R-4.
Mr. Inbinder stated that is possible but their intent is to
stay consistent with the surrounding uses which are R-2 and
R-3. He further stated they could build a lesser sized
house, however this would be inconsistent with the Carlyle
development and as ingress and egress is within the Carlyle
subdivision it would be best to consider such consistency.
Commissioner Berman asked if the original plan extended the
cul-de-sac all the way to the east.
Mr. Inbinder stated it was originally anticipated that
Prairie would be closed off and in doing so, access has been
provided from Carlyle which has cut the plan down to seven
lots and has reduced the request for variations down from
four to two.
Commissioner Berman asked if the developer has tried to have
the plan with the bulb coming farther to the east.
Mr. Burton stated this was tried but it would do less than
the proposed plan. The dimensional problem on this plan is
not due to the cul-de-sac bulb but rather to the dimensions
on the western portion of the site.
Commissioner Rosenston stated it may be best to use the same
side yard parameters as the Carlyle subdivision instead of
having the side yards twice as large.
Mr. Inbinder stated given the nature of the depth of the
north south dimension there would still not be much that
`.i could be done.
Mr. Inbinder inquired if using the R-3A District, which
requires a 30-foot rear yard, would be considered by the
Village.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 5
Chairman Goldspiel explained that in the late 1970's and
early 1980 's the size of homes was increasing, and the
Village revised the ordinance to require larger rear yards to
properly accommodate the larger homes. The "A" designation
was given to existing residential districts that were built
using the 30-foot rear yard standard, so that these existing
homes would be on conforming lots. He said that the Village
never intended to give new developments "A" zoning to allow
smaller rear yards. In the few cases where "A" zoning has
been granted, the sites have abutted other existing "A"
districts.
Mr. Inbinder stated another alternative could be to go to a
50 foot road right-of-way which may facilitate a 40 foot rear
yard.
Chairman Goldspiel noted that shortening the right-of-way as
well as reducing the front yard will definitely affect the
appearance of the streetscape.
Commissioner Berman asked what the size and price of the
homes would be.
Mr. Miller of Kogen Development stated they are proposing
homes of 3,200 to 4,000 square feet with three car garages
with home prices from $350, 000 to $500, 000.
Chairman Goldspiel stated it would seem desirable to pull the
bulb back somewhat to the north. He further stated lot 7
presents a very undesirable location being bounded on three
sides by streets.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he agrees with Commissioner Berman
that R-4 zoning should be considered. The lots that are
adjacent to Carlyle might be sized to meet R-3 standards and
then a transition to the smaller R-4 lots could be made.
Chairman Goldspiel stated there may also be the possibility
of looking into a P.U.D. concept with some kind of driveway
clustering.
Mr. Pfeil commented that the Village' s Zoning Ordinance is
not really structured for P.U.D. 's for single-family
detached homes, although there are several examples of
single-family P.U.D. 's in the Village. He noted that the
Village' s P.U.D. standards contemplate multiple buildings on
a zoning lot, and this would not be the case for a
conventionally platted single-family subdivision.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the plan as proposed does not work
well because the cul-de-sac impacts the land to the south,
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 6
and Lot 7 has street frontage on three sides.
Trustee Marienthal stated a P.U.D. for single family homes
does not work well. He noted that some developments where a
P.U.D. was used allowed small single-family lots, and the
homes take up almost all of the area on the lots, and leave
little room for usable yard areas.
Mr. Burton commented the R-4 District will not correct the
basic problem, which is the constraint created by the north-
south dimension of the site. He pointed out that the R-4
District has the same 40-foot rear yard requirement as the R-
3 District.
Chairman Goldspiel stated it would be best to either
eliminate lot 7 or put another lot in by moving the cul-de-
sac.
Commissioner Berman noted lot 32 will work with two houses
orienting to Brandywyn Lane in the event that a resubdivision
is ever proposed. There seems to be extra room on lots 4 and
5 which could be pulled back a few feet to give some extra
space.
Mr. Inbinder said he would have his planner move the cul-de-
sac as suggested, and try to improve the configuration of Lot
7 .
Commissioner Rosenston noted this would then give lot 6 extra
yardage and possible extra for lot 7.
Mr. Inbinder stated lot 7 would still have streets on three
sides but there would certainly be more than a 30 foot depth
between lot and the cul-de-sac.
Chairman Goldspiel noted this would solve a lot of problems.
Commissioner Berman asked what effect a 50-foot right of way
would have.
Mr. Inbinder stated he could then add extra footage to front
yard setbacks.
Commissioner Berman stated he is inclined to go with a 50
foot right-of-way and moving the bulb somewhat to accommodate
depth on lot 7 . He stated lot 7 is not an ideal lot but the
entire parcel is not ideal. He commented that the developer
should consider reducing the size of the homes on certain
lots to try to eliminate as many variations as possible.
Mr. Harold Jacobs stated they would certainly build the
larger houses on the larger lots.
Mr. Miller stated they have six different models ranging in
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 7
size from 3, 000 to 4,000 square feet and the 50 foot depth is
based on a three car garage facing the front of the house.
Chairman Goldspiel stated it seems that placing the best
house on a certain lot could eliminate some of the problems
and some of the variation requests.
Mr. Inbinder stated marketing lot-by-lot versus the
development would be particularly onerous.
Chairman Goldspiel noted that variations for yards is also
supposed to be on a lot-by-lot basis. He said that the
Village does not grant blanket variations for yards for an
entire development.
Commissioner Berman noted three of the model homes presented
are a depth of 45 feet. If a 50 foot right-of-way is used
these lots would come very close to the standard. He stated
a 52 foot building envelope is not needed for every lot. If
two lots can be restricted to a 45 foot lot, it may work out
using some creativity.
Commissioner Rosenston noted that matching the sideyards may
help in reducing the variances.
Chairman Goldspiel noted home buyers are not happy with a 30
foot rear yard.
Mr. Inbinder stated they could probably accommodate a great
deal of what was being asked for without affecting the bulb
or the lots around the bulb.
REGULATION OF AMUSEMENT DEVICES -- WORKSHOP #2
Mr. Pfeil said the Chief of Police is very concerned with the
amusement arcade concept. He believes large arcades could
become congregating points that will present law enforcement
problems.
Commissioner Berman stated he had prepared only a working
draft. He stated he was under the impression the idea was to
accommodate Bumpers and harmonize the Village' s ordinance
with those surrounding the Village. He further stated in
looking at the ordinances, pool tables are included along
with the more traditional arcade type games as an amusement
type use.
Commissioner Berman noted that if pool tables are eliminated
from the definition of amusement and they become moot, then
the only discussion would center around the dart boards and
the whole arcade idea would not be necessary just to
accommodate Bumpers.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 8
Commissioner Krug noted other ordinances include pool tables
in arcades as there are coin operated pool tables.
Commissioner Samuels stated he does not understand the police
concern over amusement arcades. He stated this is a
discussion for the establishment of guidelines for the
granting of a special use. He noted the Commission is not
prejudging a location or saying that one would be approved in
any given location. He further stated the Commission is only
trying to refine the definitions and concept and establish
parameters for any potential use.
Commissioner Berman stated Bumpers can only be accommodated
if there is an arcade concept at some level or pool tables
are eliminated from the arcade concept.
Mr. Pfeil stated he would try to have either the police chief
or his representative present at a meeting if the Commission
feels it would be helpful.
Commissioner Samuels stated the ordinance needs to be defined
so that it is capable of giving consideration to safety and
location for amusement centers.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the Commission has gone beyond what
was originally asked of the Commission.
Commissioner Berman stated that was not correct. He stated
the Commission was asked to come up with a comprehensive
change to the framework of dealing with these types of uses
and in doing so take into account the fact that Bumpers has
requested more dart games.
Commissioner Berman noted he would like Mr. Pfeil to check
into some of the geometry and dimensions necessary for
amusement centers.
Chairman Goldspiel noted that one of the features needing
further refinement in the proposal is parking requirements.
Commissioner Rosenston noted the following items which need
to be addressed:
1. Refining of parking requirements
2 . Physical geometry
3 . Further police input
Commissioner Rosenston stated it would also be very helpful
to see a layout of Bumpers.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 9
Commissioner Berman stated he has been in Bumpers and they
would do fine in terms of the geometry with the one exception
of the dart boards against the walls.
Commissioner Berman asked if the Commission agrees there will
be no blanket prohibition of arcades.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he would oppose any arcades as very
undesirable.
Commissioner Berman asked if pool tables would then be
eliminated from this definition.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he would agree to eliminate pool
tables.
All other Commissioners indicated they do not favor a blanket
prohibition of amusement arcades.
COMMUNITY PLANNING ISSUES
Chairman Goldspiel stated this would be a good time to
evaluate parking requirements under the ordinance,
particularly for small shopping centers. In addition, a time
table for reviewing the Master Plan should be developed.
Commissioner Rosenston stated there is the overall review of
the Master Plan which will probably take place in 1997 . He
stated that it may be a good idea to do a sub-review of the
Milwaukee Avenue/Aptakisic corridor. He noted that these
j areas need some planning since a considerable amount of land
use change could occur.
Trustee Marienthal stated that everything on Milwaukee Avenue
should be looked at. In addition the Didier farm is a very
large property and should be looked at. He further noted
that Prairie View should be considered in our planning as it
is adjacent to our community. He further suggested checking
the smaller parcels right along Prairie Avenue next to the
railroad tracks.
Commissioner Rosenston suggested going through the ordinance
section and breaking down problem areas.
Mr. Pfeil stated that in reviewing ordinances and planning
literature concerning parking, Buffalo Grove is very much in
the middle of the range for most parking standards, and he
does not think there are serious deficiencies. He noted that
some uses such as small shopping centers and certain types of
residential uses may need adjustments to the required parking
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 10
standards.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT - None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated the next meeting will be held on March 1,
1995.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND OUESTIONS - None
STAFF REPORT - None
NEW BUSINESS
Commissioner Krug noted there are cars still parked on the
detention area at the Toyota or Chrysler dealership.
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner
Berman and carried unanimously to adjourn. Chairman
Goldspiel adjourned the meeting at 9:45 p.m.
Respe ully su 'tted,
Fay Rub' , R cording Secretary
APP OVER BY: -J?
S PH N GOLDSPIEL
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 15, 1995-Page 11