Loading...
1995-02-01 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION February 1, 1995 Relics of Olde Residential Development, 940 McHenry Road Rezoning to the R-4A District and Approval of A Preliminary Plan Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois, read the notice of public hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald, explained the procedure for the hearing and swore in those giving testimony. Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel Mr. Krug Mr. Rosenston Mr. Samuels Mr. Berman Commissions absent: Ms. Howard Also present: Mr. John Gilmore, JPW Development Mr. Scott Siman, Land Technology, Inc. Mr. Mike McDonnell, McDonnell Builders Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the public hearing: Exhibit A: Preliminary Plan (2 sheets) dated January 23, 1995 by Land Technology, Inc. Exhibit B: Photographs of home elevations Mr. John Gilmore of JPW Development stated Lot 1 which consists of the existing home has been made somewhat smaller and the road has been curved slightly which has added roughly 10 to 12 feet which has made several lots become larger. He noted they have tried to accommodate the suggestions of the Plan Commission in the re- design of the plan. Mr. Gilmore stated the development now proposes ten homes, in addition to the existing home on the property, in the range of 2, 600 to 3,000 square feet. Mr. Gilmore stated that a left turn lane on northbound Route 83 Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 1 will be provided pursuant to IDOT requirements. This connection to Route 83 will be a full-access street. The north entrance on Route 83 will allow only right-in, right-out access. He stated they are looking to build 4 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath homes with full basements in the range of $350,000. Mr. Scott Siman of Land Technology, Inc. reviewed the engineering plan stating the water main will be extended from Busch Road south through the Busch Grove Community Park property and under Route 83 into the subdivision. Sanitary sewer is available on Route 83. General drainage on the property will be from the front of the houses to the street and from the back of the houses toward the back lot lines. From the street the water will run from the north to the south and will be caught in a storm sewer between Lots 7 and 8 and into a detention basin on the far southeast corner of the property. Drainage will be overland except for some sewer drainage between lots 7 and 8 and another piece of sewer at lot 10 which will also collect some runoff to go to the detention basin. Mr. Siman noted they will not be increasing overland runoff from the property, and portions of the site that will not be developed will have the same runoff features as the site now has for its undeveloped portions. He further noted they will be containing water as required by the Lake County Stormwater Management Ordinance and the Village of Buffalo Grove. Mr. Siman noted that the Notice of Public Hearing indicates a variation for a 2: 1 slope; the slope will actually be 3: 1 slope. Chairman Goldspiel asked for a clarification of the variance. Mr. Siman stated that the 3: 1 slope on the detention basin and a less than 2 percent slope on the bottom of the basin are necessary in order to create sufficient detention storage capacity as required and still allow for suitable lot size. Commissioner Krug asked how the water will flow at the rear of the lots. Mr. Siman stated that on lots 3 through 7 the water will drain at the back of the house as it does now towards three existing catch basins. Commissioner Krug asked what the catch basins do. Mr. Siman noted there is a storm sewer shown across the back of the lots which is required by ordinance for sump pumps. The existing catch basins are there to catch overland flow and carry the water to a stormsewer west. Mr. Siman stated that all increased stormwater will runoff into the streets and eventually into the proposed stormsewer. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 2 Commissioner Krug asked Mr. Kuenkler if this system will be sufficient during a heavy rain. Mr. Kuenkler stated yes. Commissioner Krug asked about the swimming pool and deck shown on the existing home. Mr. Gilmore stated that the pool will be removed and the deck will be modified or removed. Commissioner Krug asked if there would be any screening or landscaping between the proposed lots and the existing lots. Mr. Gilmore stated they have a tree preservation plan which will save certain trees and transplant others. There will also be an additional 25 new trees planted. Other than that there is no further landscaping proposed. Mr. Pfeil stated the Village Forester has a tree inventory for the property and has not, as yet, made a final recommendation concerning the trees that will be preserved or relocated. He noted the final recommendation will be made to the Appearance Commission. Commissioner Krug noted he would have liked to have seen a cross section of the detention basin. I i Chairman Goldspiel asked if this would be a five foot basin with underdraining. Mr. Siman stated yes. Commissioner Krug noted he did not see the taper for the left turn lane into the southern access. Mr. Siman stated that IDOT will issue a permit, and the left-turn lane will be constructed in compliance with IDOT standards. Mr. Gilmore stated IDOT has approved the two access points to Route 83, but a permit will not be issued until final plans have been reviewed and approved. Commissioner Rosenston asked if there would be any separation by screening or landscaping between the site and the properties to the rear. Mr. Gilmore stated he is not planning on any separation. However, if the Commission wishes to have some kind of separation, he will try to provide it. Commissioner Rosenston asked if there had been any discussion with Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 3 the adjacent residents. Mr. Gilmore stated that he has not discussed the project with any neighbors, but it is his understanding that the sellers of the property have talked to some of the adjoining property owners. Commissioner Rosenston asked if there will be sidewalks on both sides of the street and if decks would be an option for the homes. Mr. Gilmore stated there will be sidewalks on both sides of the street. He stated they would not be offering decks as an option. Mr. Gilmore noted that by changing the road most of the homes will actually conform into the R-4 District. There would only be a few homes that would not quite make it and therefore they have requested the R-4A Zoning District instead of asking for a variance. Commissioner Rosenston asked where the driveway on Lot 2 would go. Mr. Gilmore stated the driveway will go west although the farthest north point on the lot will actually be the garage. Commissioner Samuels asked if the street width of 24 feet will be corrected to the required ordinance standard of 27 feet as noted in Mr. Pfeil' s memo of January 27, 1995. Mr. Gilmore stated that the plan will be corrected. Commissioner Berman asked if the three existing stormsewers at the back of the homes will be adequate. Mr. Kuenkler stated that the capacity of the storm sewers has been verified and capacity will be adequate. Commissioner Berman asked if Lots 11, 10, 9 and 8 have added depth due to the new street configuration. Mr. Gilmore stated that is correct and further noted the curve actually starts at Lot 5 and starts adding depth at that point. Commissioner Berman noted it is unfortunate the extra depth is given to those lots next to open space instead of the lots adjacent to existing homes. Mr. Gilmore stated they could not add depth to those lots even with the adjusted road curve. Li Mr. Siman noted only Lots 3 and 4 do not have any additional depth. Commissioner Berman asked if the developer will commit to a Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 4 maximum building depth of 42 feet. Mr. Gilmore stated he cannot commit without consulting with the builder. After discussion with the builder, Mr. Gilmore stated that 42-foot depths will be fine. Commissioner Krug asked what will be done with the drywell on Lot 1. Mr. Siman stated the drywell will be abandoned and removed. Commissioner Krug asked if there are any special specifications for closing out a drywell. Mr. Kuenkler stated there are some specifications. Mr. Siman noted this is, in fact, a waterwell which will be properly capped and closed off. Commissioner Krug asked that same be noted on the plans. Chairman Goldspiel asked if the sewer line sump pump will be enclosed. Mr. Gilmore stated there will be a direct connection from the sump pump to the sewer which will follow standard specifications as outlined in the Village ordinances. Chairman Goldspiel asked what the width of the houses will be. Mr. Gilmore stated the houses will be approximately 59 feet in width. Chairman Goldspiel asked if some of the homes will have more than the minimum required sideyards. Mr. Gilmore stated yes and further noted the smallest lot will be 9,300 square feet. II Chairman Goldspiel asked if these homes reflect the standard dimension of homes today. Mr. McDonnell stated these are fairly standard dimensions. Mr. Bill Slattery, 850 Woodhollow Lane, stated he is not happy with the proposed detention which will be in his back yard. He stated he would like to see some other options for detention. He further noted he is opposed to the slope variance as a safety hazard. He further noted his deep concern for the effect this detention basin will have on home and land values. He asked who Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 5 would be maintaining the detention basin. Mr. Gilmore stated the Village is ultimately responsible but in reality the homeowners will be maintaining the area. Mr. Pfeil noted that single-family developments usually do not have homeowners' associations, so the Village has had policy of owning and maintaining stormwater basins in single-family subdivisions, while in townhome and multi-family developments, the stormwater facilities are usually owned and maintained by an association. Li Mr. Slattery asked who would be liable for anyone falling into the basin. Mr. Raysa stated that the Village as owner of the property would be liable. Mr. Slattery asked if there would be any fence around the detention basin for safety' s sake. Mr. Gilmore stated he would be willing to fence the perimeter of his development site, but it would not be very attractive to fence around the just the basin parcel. Mr. Slattery stated there are no detention basins in the Strathmore subdivision. Chairman Goldspiel stated the reason there are no detention basins in the Strathmore subdivision is because it was built before the current stormwater and flood control ordinances. Chairman Goldspiel asked for an explanation of how the restriction will work to regulate the flow of water. Mr. Siman stated the water discharges into the existing beehive drain. At the end of the pipe in the beehive structure, a small pipe will be installed and sized to give a discharge that matches the runoff on the site's undeveloped state. This is what will prevent the water from going into the sewer. Because this water will be going out slower, there will be no water in the basin. When the storm subsides, the water continues to discharge at its restricted rate until the rain subsides. Chairman Goldspiel asked how long it will take for the water to drain in the basin. Mr. Siman stated the maximum depth of the basin is 5 feet and in the case of the 100 year storm the basin begins to drain as soon as the storm subsides. He noted the ultimate design is to drain all the water out in 72 hours. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 6 Ili Mr. Jerry Handel, 840 Shady Grove Lane, noted his concern for the detention area becoming a health problem due to muddy areas in the spring which will create a breeding ground for mosquitos as well as a difficult area to be maintained. Mr. Siman stated they are installing an underdrain system across the bottom of the basin. This consists of a one foot wide trench with a perforated pipe at the bottom of the trench which is filled with gravel. The bottom of the basin then drains in two ways; to this underdrain and to the outlet from the basin. Mr. Kuenkler stated he sees no reason for the basin to be soggy and wet with this kind of system. Commissioner Berman stated he lived next to a detention basin for several years and noted there was knee high water only once during the time he lived there and the water drained out within hours. He further noted the Park District regularly schedules games on the detention basin site. He stated for the most part the area is typical grass lawn free of any mosquito problems. Mr. Alan Kaplan, 860 Woodhollow, asked how many other side slope variations have been granted in the Village. Mr, Kuenkler did not recall the number of variances granted. He noted that in terms of a 3: 1 slope being maintainable, there is no problem. He said that the side slope standard addresses maintenance, not safety, and the ledge feature required by the ordinance is designed to provide safety. Mr. Kaplan asked why the ordinance is then written for a 4: 1 standard. Mr. Kuenkler stated the ordinance is written for a 4: 1 standard but allowances are sometimes necessary. He noted a 4: 1 slope is slightly easier to maintain but is certainly not hazardous. Mr. Larry Latham, 830 Shady Grove, noted his concern with the detention basin. Mr. Bruce Braverman, 751 Wyngate, asked how the proposed lot sizes compare with existing lot sizes. Mr. Gilmore stated most lots in the adjacent Strathmore area have 70 feet widths and depths of approximately 125 feet. He noted his lots will be substantially wider than 70 feet, and the areas will be larger than the R-4 standard. He said that the side yards in his development will be larger than what is typical in Strathmore. Chairman Goldspiel stated the developer is proposing development of the site under R-4A zoning which is the same as much of Strath- more. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 7 Commissioner Krug asked if it would be possible to add some landscaping to the three foot berm at the detention area. Mr. Gilmore stated he had no objection to any further aesthetic enhancements. Chairman Goldspiel noted there is a railroad tie retaining wall on one of the lots and asked what condition this wall was in. Mr. Siman stated has not seen the wall and does not know its condition but it certainly does not affect the drainage plan. There being no further questions, Chairman Goldspiel closed the hearing at 8:50 p.m. II Respe fully sub ltted, Fay Rubi , Recording Secretary AP OVED BY: 4r6 EPe6. G DSPIEL Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 9 REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION February 1, 1995 Relics of Olde Residential Development, 940 McHenry Road Rezoning to the R-4A District and Approval of a Preliminary Plan John Aiello, Lot 72 Dun-Lo Highlands, Betty Drive Rezoning from the B-1 District to the R-4A District Workshop #1 Ice Associates, Proposed Buffalo Grove Ice Rink Weiland Road North of Abbott Business Center Annexation with Industrial zoning, approval of a Special Use for an indoor ice skating rink and approval of a Preliminary Plan -- Workshop #2 Mirielle Subdivision, Phase 2 (Town and Country Homes Billick Property) Final Plat Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 8:51 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel Mr. Krug Mr. Rosenston Mr. Samuels Mr. Berman Commissioners absent: Ms. Howard Also present: Mr. John Gilmore, JPW Development Mr. Scott Siman, Land Technology Inc. Mr. Mike McDonnell, McDonnell Builders Mr. John T. Clery, John T. Clery, P.C. Mr. John Aiello Mr. James Truesdell, Town & Country Homes Mr. Garry Benjoya, Ice Partners Associates Mr. Bruce Weinberg, Ice Partners Associates Mr. Steve Park, The Alter Group Mr. Jerry Krewer, Niles Park District Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 1 APPROVAL OF MINUTES Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Berman to approve the minutes of the public hearing and regular meeting of January 4, 1995. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion passed unanimously with Commissioner Krug abstaining. COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS Commissioner Berman attended the Village Board meeting on January 16, 1995 and stated the Sterling Creek development was approved as was the Indeck Corporate headquarters development plan. In addition, Gerard Moons was welcomed as a new trustee. RELICS OF OLDE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, 940 MCHENRY ROAD - REZONING TO THE R-4A DISTRICT AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Samuels to recommend approval to the Village Board of the petition for rezoning from the R-3 One Family Dwelling District to the R-4A One Family Dwelling District and approval of a Preliminary Plan with the following variation: DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE - Section 16.50.040.C. (to allow side slopes of 3: 1 instead of 4: 1 and a cross slope of less than 2 percent for stormwater detention facility) for 11 lots at 940 McHenry Road in accordance with petitioner's exhibits, subject to: 1. Approval of design of a left turn bay from Route 83 2 . Proper capping of the well in the right-of-way in the proposed development Commissioner Rosenston, in support of the motion, stated the developer has done an excellent job working with the Plan Commission and doing the best possible design for this parcel. He noted the neighbors concerns with the detention but stated he did not see any harm or detriment to other properties. Commissioner Berman stated he is not in favor of the proposal although that is not related to the detention. He stated he is not comfortable with the development of this parcel as an R-4 parcel with the type of housing stock being proposed in an area which is essentially landlocked around other homes. The smaller rear yard is a substantial detriment to this community, both existing and proposed. He further stated the requisite showing for the variance has not been made. Commissioner Samuels noted disagreement with Commissioner Berman. He stated this development is much more in character with the surrounding homes than a recently approved R-5 development. He stated the petitioner has done a good job of developing the Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 2 property and the detention is appropriate and necessary and will not be a detriment. He further stated he sees no use or point for a fence across the property. Commissioner Berman stated the other parcel was surrounded on three sides by open space and the few lots that were adjacent to the R-4 development were modified by the developer to meet R-4 rear yard standards. He stated the developer has done a terrific job in trying to work with this parcel but he is not comfortable with the R-4 zoning and 30 foot rear yards given the size of housing stock which is not necessarily consistent with adjacent homes. Commissioner Krug in support of the plan stated this development will be better than anything else that may come along. He noted the detention will not be a problem and almost never fills with water in a typical rainstorm. Chairman Goldspiel agreed with Commissioner Berman on some points. He further stated the increase of lot sizes and the addition of underdraining to the detention basin helps him to support the motion. He also stated the rezoning is of this parcel is warranted as this use is about as compatible as possible. Chairman Goldspiel asked why underground pipe detention would not work. Mr. Siman stated if underground storage is below the existing outlet it would have to be pumped back to the surface. Mr. Kuenkler stated this would not be practical or reasonable. Chairman Goldspiel stated he did not believe a fence would add anything to the plan. Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows: AYES: Krug, Rosenston, Samuels, Goldspiel NAYES: Berman ABSENT: Howard ABSTAIN: None The motion carried 4 to 1. JOHN AIELLO, LOT 72 DUN-LO HIGHLANDS, BETTY DRIVE- REZONING FROM THE B-1 DISTRICT TO THE R-4A DISTRICT-- WORKSHOP #1 Mr. John Clery stated Mr. Aiello is the contract purchaser of a vacant lot who is requesting rezoning from the B1 District to the R-4A District. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 3 Mr. Clery presented photographs of adjacent properties noting the other houses on the street are unincorporated Cook County. He noted this lot will meet all minimum requirements of 70 foot lot width and a lot area of 8,750 square feet and a rear yard set back of 30 feet. He noted the properties to the south and east of this lot are R-5 single family homes in unincorporated Cook County. Mr. Clery stated the single family development is feasible to preserve the single family character of Betty Drive. He noted the numerous trees on the property will be kept. Sewer and water is available to the property. The water is located in the front and there is an 8 inch sewer in the back of the property. Mr. John Aiello reviewed photographs of existing homes on the block and stated this particular lot is standing in the middle of the block. Therefore the continuity of the street would be complete with the construction of a single family home. He stated he proposes to build a two story home similar to those already existing on the street. The lot will be 88 feet in width with water and sewer being no problem. Commissioner Krug asked where the stormwater runoff is located. Mr. Aiello stated has never seen standing water in that area. He added that since this is one house in the middle of the block, there is little he can do to provide a storm sewer, although it should not be necessary. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there would be a problem detaining water on the lot. Mr. Kuenkler stated one single-family home is not technically a "development" and does not require approval as a Preliminary Plan pursuant to the Village Development Ordinance. Commissioner Krug asked if there are any sidewalks. Mr. Aiello stated the sidewalk extends to the south edge of the strip center on Dundee Road. Chairman Goldspiel asked for staff recommendation as to how to handle the sidewalk issue. Commissioner Samuels stated it is foolish to put in a piece of sidewalk now but agrees that a plan for future development should be made so that at such time as more of the street is developed, the setbacks and easements be available for development. Chairman Goldspiel asked if this property meets the requirements for residential properties adjoining commercial properties. Mr. Pfeil stated the ordinance calls for a minimum setback of 12 Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 4 feet for a property in the B-1 district abutting a residential district. Lot 71 would remain in the B-1 District, and the setback to the south property line for the existing building is approximately 11.3 feet. Mr. Aiello stated if the six inches is an issue, he would be willing to deed six inches of land to the adjacent property owner or build the house six inches farther to the south. Chairman Goldspiel stated it makes more sense to move the house over six inches than deeding the land. Commissioner Rosenston asked if this property was to be re- platted. Mr. Aiello stated the survey of the property showed the house, however, the garage was added on which would not have provided sufficient side yard for the proposed lot. Therefore, 12 feet was deeded to the property next door. Commissioner Rosenston stated the lot should be re-platted to show that Lot 71 is 112 x 100 and Lot 72 is 88 x 100 and also rezone Lot 72 to R-4A. Mr. Clery stated that was correct. Commissioner Samuels asks what happens to the west. Mr. Aiello stated that Mr. Kemmerly is the owner of the property to the west, and this property also extends north to Dundee Road where a dental office is located. Chairman Goldspiel asked if this will create a problem with landlocking. He noted that if the western parcel is part of the Dundee parcel and has access to Dundee Road, there may not be a problem with landlocking the Kemmerly property. Mr. Pfeil stated Mr. Kemmerly owns everything from Dundee Road south and west of the parcel under consideration so everything west would have access on Dundee. Commissioner Samuels asked if re-platting is necessary for all four lots. Mr. Pfeil said that the east portions of Lot 71 and Lot 72 under review pursuant to Mr. Aiello' s rezoning petition would need to be re-platted, but the parcels owned by Mr. Kemmerly are not under review. Chairman Goldspiel directed Mr. Aiello to work with the Village staff to set up a public hearing. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 5 Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Samuels to switch the Mirielle Final Plat item on the agenda with the Ice Associates item on the agenda. MIRIELLE SUBDIVISION, PHASE 2 (TOWN AND COUNTRY HOMES, BILLICK'S PROPERTY - FINAL PLAT Mr. Truesdell presented the final plat for the Mirielle Subdivision, Phase 2 and stated it conforms to the Preliminary Plan, Annexation agreements and meets all the requirements under the development ordinance. Chairman Goldspiel stated he is concerned with the name of the circular street which works all the way through the subdivision. Essentially there will be an intersection with three street legs all named Avalon. Mr. Truesdell indicated he is open to suggestions. He noted that the Fire Department and Police Department are the main agencies involved in approving street naming to avoid confusion. Commissioner Krug stated there would be a problem with numbering the homes. Mr. Kuenkler stated the numbering goes from the north of the subdivision in a southerly direction and simply wraps around. The Fire Department has gone over the street naming system and did not see a problem. Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Berman to recommend approval of the Mirielle Subdivision, Phase 2 consisting of five sheets dated January 16, 1995. Chairman Goldspiel asked if staff had reviewed the plat for compliance with the Preliminary Plan and for closure. Mr. Kuenkler stated the plan had been reviewed and noted there are actually two lots fewer than the original Preliminary Plan. Commissioner Krug asked what Outlot A is. Mr. Truesdell stated Outlot A is intended to provide for the opportunity of Avalon Drive being extended to the north. Under the annexation agreement they were asked to dedicate that as an outlot rather than a right-of-way so that in time if the area develops to the north and there is a need it can be extended. Commissioner Krug asked if the outlot would be graded and seeded. Mr. Kuenkler said that the street would actually be constructed to the north portion of Outlot A so that all property owners in the Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 6 area would understand that the street could be extended in the future. Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows: AYES: Krug, Rosenston, Berman, Goldspiel NAYES: None ABSTAIN: Samuels ABSENT: Howard The motion carried 4 to 0. ICE ASSOCIATES, PROPOSED BUFFALO GROVE ICE RINK, WEILAND ROAD NORTH OF ABBOTT BUSINESS CENTER - ANNEXATION WITH INDUSTRIAL ZONING, APPROVAL OF A SPECIAL USE FOR AN INDOOR ICE SKATING RINK AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN WORKSHOP #2 Mr. Steve Park of The Alter Group reviewed the revised plan noting how the project is to be developed with the loop road, Thompson Boulevard and the north-south leg which would link Thompson to Abbott Court. He stated the Ice Partners have been working to get Mr. Weiner of the Concrete Doctor property to coordinate this activity and accomplish the loop road. Mr. Park stated the concept is to try and accomplish the full section of the pavement for the loop road. Abbott is expected to install their final segment possibly as early as spring. Thompson Boulevard has been shifted on the site plan so that the alignment is more accurate at the intersection with Weiland Road. An engineer has been hired, but the access to Weiland Road has only been provided to Lake County recently, so the County access permit process has not really started. Mr. Park stated the entrance dropoff area has been changed to create a more defined dropoff area in front of the building. He further stated there is no objection to the next generation realignment of parking off the loop road. He further noted the Ice Partners is continuing its discussions with Abbott for the use of Abbott's stormwater detention facility to handle water from the site. Abbott will be determining if the facility has sufficient capacity for the additional detention needs or whether the future parking area in the southeast corner of the ice rink parking parcel would need to become the detention area. Mr. Park presented a brief report from a traffic engineer who did traffic counts at three representative ice rinks with two full rinks. This report contains actual counts and an analysis of what would be a reasonable amount of parking. He noted the results showing the normal use requiring just under 200 vehicles. The maximum occupancy at special event is estimated at 380 vehicles. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 7 The traffic engineer's recommendations is that approximately 235 spaces will be sufficient for the proposed Buffalo Grove ice rink, which proposes 306 parking spaces, well above this recommended level. Mr. Park noted the civil engineers are presently looking into plans for the facility and the landscape plan and architectural plans will be started soon. Chairman Goldspiel stated it is the number of seats for the rink that is of great concern. He stated 1300 seats is a large number of seats. Mr. Krewer stated 1300 seats is not an outrageous number for a double rink facility. Mr. Park stated they will put together a table of seats at various rinks to get a sense of proportion. Chairman Goldspiel stated the Commission had also asked for a description of the usage that would be using all of these seats, particularly daily usage and once a year usage. Mr. Krewer stated this will be comparable to the Northbrook Ice Rink. He stated all of these ice rinks tend to operate on a very similar basis. He stated normal operations would be Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. would have 20 to 30 cars in the lot at one time. 3:30 p.m. to 12:00 midnight, there would be an average of 120 to 160 cars in the lot on a regular basis. Saturday and Sunday hours would be 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 midnight and would have the same number ( 120 to 160) cars in the lot. He stated special events such as public skating, which is a higher density activity, would add an additional 40 cars to the lot during the peak times. However, a lot of this kind of activity centers around kids being dropped off and picked up. Chairman 7 Goldspiel stated the major concern would be when all 1300 P seats are being used. Mr. Krewer stated that would only occur for the ice shows which are only about 10 days out of the year. Commissioner Samuels noted the letter from Dr. Parks of School District 102 regarding use of their lot for overflow parking. However, he noted concern that some school functions may coincide with the proposed ice show dates causing a parking nightmare. Mr. Krewer stated since it usually is the same kids who participate in school functions as the ice functions, he would certainly be inclined to check with the schools regarding conflicts in programming. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 8 Commissioner Samuels inquired about Mr. Pfeil's memo regarding parking requirements for skating facilities. Mr. Pfeil noted that there are definitely parking standards less stringent than Buffalo Grove's ordinance. The standard which consistently shows up in other ordinances is a ratio of off-street parking that is 30 to 33 percent of the maximum number of people that can be accommodated in the facility. He noted that if the 30 percent standard is applied to a facility with 1300 seats, 390 spaces would be required. Mr. Benjoya stated that both rinks would never be used at the same time and therefore there would only be seating capacity of 950. Chairman Goldspiel asked if this would be put in writing. Mr. Weinberg there will be parking spaces available as the Abbott Business Center develops more office space. Commissioner Samuels stated there would always be a huge temptation for people to park across Weiland Road in the Old Farm Village area in winter months. He asked if there could be some kind of street parking restriction, like that used for Ravinia, during special event days. Mr. Pfeil stated this is both a Special Use and an annexation and certain parameters can be stipulated for how the property is used. He commented that it is important that the petitioners specify how the facility will be used, and commit to a management program so that traffic and parking during peak demand periods is handled effectively. He noted that at this point the Village only knows what is discussed at the ► type s and some t e of written representation concerning how the facility will be used and managed will be needed as part of the final zoning approval and annexation agreement. Commissioner Samuels stated he does not want the Village to get into a situation of having to revoke a Special Use if the facility is not managed in compliance with the approval. It would be much better to ensure that the petitioners have made necessary agreements with adjacent property owners to provide for parking and traffic management in peak demand periods. Mr. Raysa stated there are less drastic means than revoking a Special Use. He noted a permanent injunction for breach of contract could be used. Mr. Pfeil stated that a clear written description of exactly how this facility will be operated would be very helpful in ensuring that parking and other functional items are adequately addressed in the Village's approval of the Special Use and annexation agreement. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 9 Mr. Krewer stated he is speaking with twenty years of experience and this testimony would not be any more solid in writing. Chairman Goldspiel stated the Commission would like something from which to draft legal documents. Commissioner Samuels noted it would be all right to use both rinks to capacity if they have written agreements and the actual space available at other offsite parking facilities which will be policed. He stated he only wishes to protect residents in the area from people parking across their driveways and the kind of stuff that happens when such activities are not properly policed. Commissioner Rosenston stated the peak load for special event days would appear to be the off hours relative to an industrial park and hopefully within a couple of years the Abbott Industrial Park will be fully developed. If something in writing could be obtained from Abbott, there will probably be more than enough parking between the Abbott complex and the proposed parking for anything that may occur at the ice rink. Commissioner Samuels noted the entire facility orients to the north whereas all the parking is to the south. He asked that some kind of a secondary entrance be provided on the south side or perhaps the entire building should be turned to face south or east. Chairman Goldspiel stated the following items need to be addressed: 1. More definition on the type of events to be held and differentiation between ordinary events and special events to ensure sufficient parking Commissioner Berman asked that a separate lane for dropoff and through traffic be provided. Mr. Park stated they have sufficient width to provide such a separation. Commissioner Rosenston stated relocation of an entrance to the building on the east or southeast should be explored. Chairman Goldspiel and Commissioner Samuels stated pedestrian sidewalks needed to be defined and provided. Commissioner Rosenston noted the need to define how people would get from the Abbott parking area to the building. Mr. Krewer stated the extra parking space is only for overflow parking which will only be used during peak times. Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 10 Commissioner Berman stated that public skating is during peak times and the overflow parking will be used on a regular basis. Mr. Krewer asked if the Commission would prefer the building to be turned around or would they prefer two accesses. Commissioner Rosenston asked if there would still be enough land for proper dropoff and traffic movement if the building were turned. Therefore, it may be better to leave the building as is and get some clear access on the south. He stated that somehow it must be made easier for people to be willing to park in the overflow lots. Chairman Goldspiel asked the status of the loop road. Mr. Park stated if the Village can accommodate some of the Concrete Doctor's requests, the loop road will progress. Chairman Goldspiel asked if there is a need for a traffic consultant on this project. Mr. Pfeil stated that Mr. Carmignani, the Village's consultant should review the site plan, but it would less costly to the petitioner if Mr. Cargmignani' s review occurs when the plan is in a more refined stage. Commissioner Samuels asked if there is a presumption there will be a traffic signal at Thompson. Mr. Pfeil stated if the warrants are met then the light will be installed, but Lake County has not committed funding to a signal at this location. Mr. Kuenkler noted the signal would not be installed unless the warrants are met. This would, of course, include projected traffic into the proposed ice rink facility. Chairman Goldspiel stated the developer is to address special event parking and provide information on how much parking there is at different rinks based on seating. Mr. Weinberg asked what happens if the Village and the Concrete Doctor do not come to terms so that the loop road can be implemented. Chairman Goldspiel stated the project does not work without the loop road. Mr. Benjoya stated they should not be punished for the Village and Mr. Weiner not coming to terms. Chairman Goldspiel stated that the Village does not approve Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 11 developments which do not have their road access in accordance with comprehensive planning for the area. Commissioner Rosenston stated the concern is for the access to the overflow parking lot. It makes no sense to access this lot through another parking lot. Commissioner Samuels stated implementation of the loop road has been a requirement for several other proposed developments on this site. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT - None FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE Mr. Pfeil stated the next regular meeting would be held on February 15, 1995. PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS - None STAFF REPORT - None NEW BUSINESS Commissioner Krug noted that Clifford Chrysler or the Toyota dealer has been parking cars on the detention basin and as there is an ordinance against parking on unpaved areas, it the matter should be looked into. ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Krug and carried unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Goldspiel adjourned the meeting at 11:00 p.m. Respectfully subm' ted, Fay Rubi , Recording Secretary APP VED BY: e- S EP N GO SPIEL Buff alo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 12