1995-02-01 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
February 1, 1995
Relics of Olde Residential Development, 940 McHenry Road
Rezoning to the R-4A District and Approval
of A Preliminary Plan
Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the
Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50
Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois, read the notice of
public hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald,
explained the procedure for the hearing and swore in those giving
testimony.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Berman
Commissions absent: Ms. Howard
Also present: Mr. John Gilmore, JPW Development
Mr. Scott Siman, Land Technology, Inc.
Mr. Mike McDonnell, McDonnell Builders
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the
public hearing:
Exhibit A: Preliminary Plan (2 sheets) dated January 23, 1995 by
Land Technology, Inc.
Exhibit B: Photographs of home elevations
Mr. John Gilmore of JPW Development stated Lot 1 which consists of
the existing home has been made somewhat smaller and the road has
been curved slightly which has added roughly 10 to 12 feet which
has made several lots become larger. He noted they have tried to
accommodate the suggestions of the Plan Commission in the re-
design of the plan.
Mr. Gilmore stated the development now proposes ten homes, in
addition to the existing home on the property, in the range of
2, 600 to 3,000 square feet.
Mr. Gilmore stated that a left turn lane on northbound Route 83
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 1
will be provided pursuant to IDOT requirements. This connection to
Route 83 will be a full-access street. The north entrance on Route
83 will allow only right-in, right-out access. He stated they are
looking to build 4 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath homes with full basements
in the range of $350,000.
Mr. Scott Siman of Land Technology, Inc. reviewed the engineering
plan stating the water main will be extended from Busch Road south
through the Busch Grove Community Park property and under Route 83
into the subdivision. Sanitary sewer is available on Route 83.
General drainage on the property will be from the front of the
houses to the street and from the back of the houses toward the
back lot lines. From the street the water will run from the north
to the south and will be caught in a storm sewer between Lots 7
and 8 and into a detention basin on the far southeast corner of
the property. Drainage will be overland except for some sewer
drainage between lots 7 and 8 and another piece of sewer at lot 10
which will also collect some runoff to go to the detention basin.
Mr. Siman noted they will not be increasing overland runoff from
the property, and portions of the site that will not be developed
will have the same runoff features as the site now has for its
undeveloped portions. He further noted they will be containing
water as required by the Lake County Stormwater Management
Ordinance and the Village of Buffalo Grove.
Mr. Siman noted that the Notice of Public Hearing indicates a
variation for a 2: 1 slope; the slope will actually be 3: 1 slope.
Chairman Goldspiel asked for a clarification of the variance.
Mr. Siman stated that the 3: 1 slope on the detention basin and a
less than 2 percent slope on the bottom of the basin are necessary
in order to create sufficient detention storage capacity as
required and still allow for suitable lot size.
Commissioner Krug asked how the water will flow at the rear of the
lots.
Mr. Siman stated that on lots 3 through 7 the water will drain at
the back of the house as it does now towards three existing catch
basins.
Commissioner Krug asked what the catch basins do.
Mr. Siman noted there is a storm sewer shown across the back of
the lots which is required by ordinance for sump pumps. The
existing catch basins are there to catch overland flow and carry
the water to a stormsewer west.
Mr. Siman stated that all increased stormwater will runoff into
the streets and eventually into the proposed stormsewer.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 2
Commissioner Krug asked Mr. Kuenkler if this system will be
sufficient during a heavy rain.
Mr. Kuenkler stated yes.
Commissioner Krug asked about the swimming pool and deck shown on
the existing home.
Mr. Gilmore stated that the pool will be removed and the deck will
be modified or removed.
Commissioner Krug asked if there would be any screening or
landscaping between the proposed lots and the existing lots.
Mr. Gilmore stated they have a tree preservation plan which will
save certain trees and transplant others. There will also be an
additional 25 new trees planted. Other than that there is no
further landscaping proposed.
Mr. Pfeil stated the Village Forester has a tree inventory for the
property and has not, as yet, made a final recommendation
concerning the trees that will be preserved or relocated. He noted
the final recommendation will be made to the Appearance
Commission.
Commissioner Krug noted he would have liked to have seen a cross
section of the detention basin.
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Chairman Goldspiel asked if this would be a five foot basin with
underdraining.
Mr. Siman stated yes.
Commissioner Krug noted he did not see the taper for the left turn
lane into the southern access.
Mr. Siman stated that IDOT will issue a permit, and the left-turn
lane will be constructed in compliance with IDOT standards.
Mr. Gilmore stated IDOT has approved the two access points to
Route 83, but a permit will not be issued until final plans have
been reviewed and approved.
Commissioner Rosenston asked if there would be any separation by
screening or landscaping between the site and the properties to
the rear.
Mr. Gilmore stated he is not planning on any separation. However,
if the Commission wishes to have some kind of separation, he will
try to provide it.
Commissioner Rosenston asked if there had been any discussion with
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 3
the adjacent residents.
Mr. Gilmore stated that he has not discussed the project with any
neighbors, but it is his understanding that the sellers of the
property have talked to some of the adjoining property owners.
Commissioner Rosenston asked if there will be sidewalks on both
sides of the street and if decks would be an option for the homes.
Mr. Gilmore stated there will be sidewalks on both sides of the
street. He stated they would not be offering decks as an option.
Mr. Gilmore noted that by changing the road most of the homes will
actually conform into the R-4 District. There would only be a few
homes that would not quite make it and therefore they have
requested the R-4A Zoning District instead of asking for a
variance.
Commissioner Rosenston asked where the driveway on Lot 2 would go.
Mr. Gilmore stated the driveway will go west although the farthest
north point on the lot will actually be the garage.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the street width of 24 feet will be
corrected to the required ordinance standard of 27 feet as noted
in Mr. Pfeil' s memo of January 27, 1995.
Mr. Gilmore stated that the plan will be corrected.
Commissioner Berman asked if the three existing stormsewers at the
back of the homes will be adequate.
Mr. Kuenkler stated that the capacity of the storm sewers has been
verified and capacity will be adequate.
Commissioner Berman asked if Lots 11, 10, 9 and 8 have added depth
due to the new street configuration.
Mr. Gilmore stated that is correct and further noted the curve
actually starts at Lot 5 and starts adding depth at that point.
Commissioner Berman noted it is unfortunate the extra depth is
given to those lots next to open space instead of the lots
adjacent to existing homes.
Mr. Gilmore stated they could not add depth to those lots even
with the adjusted road curve.
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Mr. Siman noted only Lots 3 and 4 do not have any additional
depth.
Commissioner Berman asked if the developer will commit to a
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 4
maximum building depth of 42 feet.
Mr. Gilmore stated he cannot commit without consulting with the
builder.
After discussion with the builder, Mr. Gilmore stated that 42-foot
depths will be fine.
Commissioner Krug asked what will be done with the drywell on Lot
1.
Mr. Siman stated the drywell will be abandoned and removed.
Commissioner Krug asked if there are any special specifications
for closing out a drywell.
Mr. Kuenkler stated there are some specifications.
Mr. Siman noted this is, in fact, a waterwell which will be
properly capped and closed off.
Commissioner Krug asked that same be noted on the plans.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if the sewer line sump pump will be
enclosed.
Mr. Gilmore stated there will be a direct connection from the sump
pump to the sewer which will follow standard specifications as
outlined in the Village ordinances.
Chairman Goldspiel asked what the width of the houses will be.
Mr. Gilmore stated the houses will be approximately 59 feet in
width.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if some of the homes will have more than
the minimum required sideyards.
Mr. Gilmore stated yes and further noted the smallest lot will be
9,300 square feet.
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Chairman Goldspiel asked if these homes reflect the standard
dimension of homes today.
Mr. McDonnell stated these are fairly standard dimensions.
Mr. Bill Slattery, 850 Woodhollow Lane, stated he is not happy
with the proposed detention which will be in his back yard. He
stated he would like to see some other options for detention. He
further noted he is opposed to the slope variance as a safety
hazard. He further noted his deep concern for the effect this
detention basin will have on home and land values. He asked who
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 5
would be maintaining the detention basin.
Mr. Gilmore stated the Village is ultimately responsible but in
reality the homeowners will be maintaining the area.
Mr. Pfeil noted that single-family developments usually do not
have homeowners' associations, so the Village has had policy of
owning and maintaining stormwater basins in single-family
subdivisions, while in townhome and multi-family developments, the
stormwater facilities are usually owned and maintained by an
association.
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Mr. Slattery asked who would be liable for anyone falling into the
basin.
Mr. Raysa stated that the Village as owner of the property would
be liable.
Mr. Slattery asked if there would be any fence around the
detention basin for safety' s sake.
Mr. Gilmore stated he would be willing to fence the perimeter of
his development site, but it would not be very attractive to fence
around the just the basin parcel.
Mr. Slattery stated there are no detention basins in the
Strathmore subdivision.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the reason there are no detention basins
in the Strathmore subdivision is because it was built before the
current stormwater and flood control ordinances.
Chairman Goldspiel asked for an explanation of how the restriction
will work to regulate the flow of water.
Mr. Siman stated the water discharges into the existing beehive
drain. At the end of the pipe in the beehive structure, a small
pipe will be installed and sized to give a discharge that matches
the runoff on the site's undeveloped state. This is what will
prevent the water from going into the sewer. Because this water
will be going out slower, there will be no water in the basin.
When the storm subsides, the water continues to discharge at its
restricted rate until the rain subsides.
Chairman Goldspiel asked how long it will take for the water to
drain in the basin.
Mr. Siman stated the maximum depth of the basin is 5 feet and in
the case of the 100 year storm the basin begins to drain as soon
as the storm subsides. He noted the ultimate design is to drain
all the water out in 72 hours.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 6
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Mr. Jerry Handel, 840 Shady Grove Lane, noted his concern for the
detention area becoming a health problem due to muddy areas in the
spring which will create a breeding ground for mosquitos as well
as a difficult area to be maintained.
Mr. Siman stated they are installing an underdrain system across
the bottom of the basin. This consists of a one foot wide trench
with a perforated pipe at the bottom of the trench which is filled
with gravel. The bottom of the basin then drains in two ways; to
this underdrain and to the outlet from the basin.
Mr. Kuenkler stated he sees no reason for the basin to be soggy
and wet with this kind of system.
Commissioner Berman stated he lived next to a detention basin for
several years and noted there was knee high water only once during
the time he lived there and the water drained out within hours.
He further noted the Park District regularly schedules games on
the detention basin site. He stated for the most part the area is
typical grass lawn free of any mosquito problems.
Mr. Alan Kaplan, 860 Woodhollow, asked how many other side slope
variations have been granted in the Village.
Mr, Kuenkler did not recall the number of variances granted. He
noted that in terms of a 3: 1 slope being maintainable, there is no
problem. He said that the side slope standard addresses
maintenance, not safety, and the ledge feature required by the
ordinance is designed to provide safety.
Mr. Kaplan asked why the ordinance is then written for a 4: 1
standard.
Mr. Kuenkler stated the ordinance is written for a 4: 1 standard
but allowances are sometimes necessary. He noted a 4: 1 slope is
slightly easier to maintain but is certainly not hazardous.
Mr. Larry Latham, 830 Shady Grove, noted his concern with the
detention basin.
Mr. Bruce Braverman, 751 Wyngate, asked how the proposed lot sizes
compare with existing lot sizes.
Mr. Gilmore stated most lots in the adjacent Strathmore area have
70 feet widths and depths of approximately 125 feet. He noted his
lots will be substantially wider than 70 feet, and the areas will
be larger than the R-4 standard. He said that the side yards in
his development will be larger than what is typical in Strathmore.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the developer is proposing development
of the site under R-4A zoning which is the same as much of Strath-
more.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 7
Commissioner Krug asked if it would be possible to add some
landscaping to the three foot berm at the detention area.
Mr. Gilmore stated he had no objection to any further aesthetic
enhancements.
Chairman Goldspiel noted there is a railroad tie retaining wall on
one of the lots and asked what condition this wall was in.
Mr. Siman stated has not seen the wall and does not know its
condition but it certainly does not affect the drainage plan.
There being no further questions, Chairman Goldspiel closed the
hearing at 8:50 p.m.
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Respe fully sub ltted,
Fay Rubi , Recording Secretary
AP OVED BY:
4r6
EPe6.
G DSPIEL
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Public Hearing-February 1, 1995-Page 9
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
February 1, 1995
Relics of Olde Residential Development, 940 McHenry Road
Rezoning to the R-4A District and Approval
of a Preliminary Plan
John Aiello, Lot 72 Dun-Lo Highlands, Betty Drive
Rezoning from the B-1 District to the R-4A District
Workshop #1
Ice Associates, Proposed Buffalo Grove Ice Rink
Weiland Road North of Abbott Business Center
Annexation with Industrial zoning, approval of a
Special Use for an indoor ice skating rink and
approval of a Preliminary Plan -- Workshop #2
Mirielle Subdivision, Phase 2 (Town and Country Homes
Billick Property) Final Plat
Chairman Goldspiel called the meeting to order at 8:51 p.m. in the
Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50
Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Berman
Commissioners absent: Ms. Howard
Also present: Mr. John Gilmore, JPW Development
Mr. Scott Siman, Land Technology Inc.
Mr. Mike McDonnell, McDonnell Builders
Mr. John T. Clery, John T. Clery, P.C.
Mr. John Aiello
Mr. James Truesdell, Town & Country Homes
Mr. Garry Benjoya, Ice Partners Associates
Mr. Bruce Weinberg, Ice Partners
Associates
Mr. Steve Park, The Alter Group
Mr. Jerry Krewer, Niles Park District
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 1
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Berman
to approve the minutes of the public hearing and regular meeting
of January 4, 1995. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion
and the motion passed unanimously with Commissioner Krug
abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Berman attended the Village Board meeting on January
16, 1995 and stated the Sterling Creek development was approved as
was the Indeck Corporate headquarters development plan. In
addition, Gerard Moons was welcomed as a new trustee.
RELICS OF OLDE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, 940 MCHENRY ROAD -
REZONING TO THE R-4A DISTRICT AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Samuels
to recommend approval to the Village Board of the petition for
rezoning from the R-3 One Family Dwelling District to the R-4A One
Family Dwelling District and approval of a Preliminary Plan with
the following variation: DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE - Section
16.50.040.C. (to allow side slopes of 3: 1 instead of 4: 1 and a
cross slope of less than 2 percent for stormwater detention
facility) for 11 lots at 940 McHenry Road in accordance with
petitioner's exhibits, subject to:
1. Approval of design of a left turn bay from Route 83
2 . Proper capping of the well in the right-of-way in the
proposed development
Commissioner Rosenston, in support of the motion, stated the
developer has done an excellent job working with the Plan
Commission and doing the best possible design for this parcel. He
noted the neighbors concerns with the detention but stated he did
not see any harm or detriment to other properties.
Commissioner Berman stated he is not in favor of the proposal
although that is not related to the detention. He stated he is
not comfortable with the development of this parcel as an R-4
parcel with the type of housing stock being proposed in an area
which is essentially landlocked around other homes. The smaller
rear yard is a substantial detriment to this community, both
existing and proposed. He further stated the requisite showing
for the variance has not been made.
Commissioner Samuels noted disagreement with Commissioner Berman.
He stated this development is much more in character with the
surrounding homes than a recently approved R-5 development. He
stated the petitioner has done a good job of developing the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 2
property and the detention is appropriate and necessary and will
not be a detriment. He further stated he sees no use or point for
a fence across the property.
Commissioner Berman stated the other parcel was surrounded on
three sides by open space and the few lots that were adjacent to
the R-4 development were modified by the developer to meet R-4
rear yard standards. He stated the developer has done a terrific
job in trying to work with this parcel but he is not comfortable
with the R-4 zoning and 30 foot rear yards given the size of
housing stock which is not necessarily consistent with adjacent
homes.
Commissioner Krug in support of the plan stated this development
will be better than anything else that may come along. He noted
the detention will not be a problem and almost never fills with
water in a typical rainstorm.
Chairman Goldspiel agreed with Commissioner Berman on some points.
He further stated the increase of lot sizes and the addition of
underdraining to the detention basin helps him to support the
motion. He also stated the rezoning is of this parcel is
warranted as this use is about as compatible as possible.
Chairman Goldspiel asked why underground pipe detention would not
work.
Mr. Siman stated if underground storage is below the existing
outlet it would have to be pumped back to the surface.
Mr. Kuenkler stated this would not be practical or reasonable.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he did not believe a fence would add
anything to the plan.
Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote
was as follows:
AYES: Krug, Rosenston, Samuels, Goldspiel
NAYES: Berman
ABSENT: Howard
ABSTAIN: None
The motion carried 4 to 1.
JOHN AIELLO, LOT 72 DUN-LO HIGHLANDS, BETTY DRIVE- REZONING
FROM THE B-1 DISTRICT TO THE R-4A DISTRICT-- WORKSHOP #1
Mr. John Clery stated Mr. Aiello is the contract purchaser of a
vacant lot who is requesting rezoning from the B1 District to the
R-4A District.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 3
Mr. Clery presented photographs of adjacent properties noting the
other houses on the street are unincorporated Cook County. He
noted this lot will meet all minimum requirements of 70 foot lot
width and a lot area of 8,750 square feet and a rear yard set back
of 30 feet. He noted the properties to the south and east of this
lot are R-5 single family homes in unincorporated Cook County.
Mr. Clery stated the single family development is feasible to
preserve the single family character of Betty Drive. He noted the
numerous trees on the property will be kept. Sewer and water is
available to the property. The water is located in the front and
there is an 8 inch sewer in the back of the property.
Mr. John Aiello reviewed photographs of existing homes on the
block and stated this particular lot is standing in the middle of
the block. Therefore the continuity of the street would be
complete with the construction of a single family home. He stated
he proposes to build a two story home similar to those already
existing on the street. The lot will be 88 feet in width with
water and sewer being no problem.
Commissioner Krug asked where the stormwater runoff is located.
Mr. Aiello stated has never seen standing water in that area. He
added that since this is one house in the middle of the block,
there is little he can do to provide a storm sewer, although it
should not be necessary.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if there would be a problem detaining
water on the lot.
Mr. Kuenkler stated one single-family home is not technically a
"development" and does not require approval as a Preliminary Plan
pursuant to the Village Development Ordinance.
Commissioner Krug asked if there are any sidewalks.
Mr. Aiello stated the sidewalk extends to the south edge of the
strip center on Dundee Road.
Chairman Goldspiel asked for staff recommendation as to how to
handle the sidewalk issue.
Commissioner Samuels stated it is foolish to put in a piece of
sidewalk now but agrees that a plan for future development should
be made so that at such time as more of the street is developed,
the setbacks and easements be available for development.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if this property meets the requirements
for residential properties adjoining commercial properties.
Mr. Pfeil stated the ordinance calls for a minimum setback of 12
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 4
feet for a property in the B-1 district abutting a residential
district. Lot 71 would remain in the B-1 District, and the setback
to the south property line for the existing building is
approximately 11.3 feet.
Mr. Aiello stated if the six inches is an issue, he would be
willing to deed six inches of land to the adjacent property owner
or build the house six inches farther to the south.
Chairman Goldspiel stated it makes more sense to move the house
over six inches than deeding the land.
Commissioner Rosenston asked if this property was to be re-
platted.
Mr. Aiello stated the survey of the property showed the house,
however, the garage was added on which would not have provided
sufficient side yard for the proposed lot. Therefore, 12 feet was
deeded to the property next door.
Commissioner Rosenston stated the lot should be re-platted to show
that Lot 71 is 112 x 100 and Lot 72 is 88 x 100 and also rezone
Lot 72 to R-4A.
Mr. Clery stated that was correct.
Commissioner Samuels asks what happens to the west.
Mr. Aiello stated that Mr. Kemmerly is the owner of the property
to the west, and this property also extends north to Dundee Road
where a dental office is located.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if this will create a problem with
landlocking. He noted that if the western parcel is part of the
Dundee parcel and has access to Dundee Road, there may not be a
problem with landlocking the Kemmerly property.
Mr. Pfeil stated Mr. Kemmerly owns everything from Dundee Road
south and west of the parcel under consideration so everything
west would have access on Dundee.
Commissioner Samuels asked if re-platting is necessary for all
four lots.
Mr. Pfeil said that the east portions of Lot 71 and Lot 72 under
review pursuant to Mr. Aiello' s rezoning petition would need to be
re-platted, but the parcels owned by Mr. Kemmerly are not under
review.
Chairman Goldspiel directed Mr. Aiello to work with the Village
staff to set up a public hearing.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 5
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Samuels
to switch the Mirielle Final Plat item on the agenda with the Ice
Associates item on the agenda.
MIRIELLE SUBDIVISION, PHASE 2 (TOWN AND COUNTRY HOMES, BILLICK'S
PROPERTY - FINAL PLAT
Mr. Truesdell presented the final plat for the Mirielle
Subdivision, Phase 2 and stated it conforms to the Preliminary
Plan, Annexation agreements and meets all the requirements under
the development ordinance.
Chairman Goldspiel stated he is concerned with the name of the
circular street which works all the way through the subdivision.
Essentially there will be an intersection with three street legs
all named Avalon.
Mr. Truesdell indicated he is open to suggestions. He noted that
the Fire Department and Police Department are the main agencies
involved in approving street naming to avoid confusion.
Commissioner Krug stated there would be a problem with numbering
the homes.
Mr. Kuenkler stated the numbering goes from the north of the
subdivision in a southerly direction and simply wraps around. The
Fire Department has gone over the street naming system and did not
see a problem.
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Berman
to recommend approval of the Mirielle Subdivision, Phase 2
consisting of five sheets dated January 16, 1995.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if staff had reviewed the plat for
compliance with the Preliminary Plan and for closure.
Mr. Kuenkler stated the plan had been reviewed and noted there are
actually two lots fewer than the original Preliminary Plan.
Commissioner Krug asked what Outlot A is.
Mr. Truesdell stated Outlot A is intended to provide for the
opportunity of Avalon Drive being extended to the north. Under
the annexation agreement they were asked to dedicate that as an
outlot rather than a right-of-way so that in time if the area
develops to the north and there is a need it can be extended.
Commissioner Krug asked if the outlot would be graded and seeded.
Mr. Kuenkler said that the street would actually be constructed to
the north portion of Outlot A so that all property owners in the
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 6
area would understand that the street could be extended in the
future.
Chairman Goldspiel called for a vote on the motion and the vote
was as follows:
AYES: Krug, Rosenston, Berman, Goldspiel
NAYES: None
ABSTAIN: Samuels
ABSENT: Howard
The motion carried 4 to 0.
ICE ASSOCIATES, PROPOSED BUFFALO GROVE ICE RINK, WEILAND ROAD
NORTH OF ABBOTT BUSINESS CENTER - ANNEXATION WITH INDUSTRIAL
ZONING, APPROVAL OF A SPECIAL USE FOR AN INDOOR ICE SKATING
RINK AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN WORKSHOP #2
Mr. Steve Park of The Alter Group reviewed the revised plan noting
how the project is to be developed with the loop road, Thompson
Boulevard and the north-south leg which would link Thompson to
Abbott Court. He stated the Ice Partners have been working to get
Mr. Weiner of the Concrete Doctor property to coordinate this
activity and accomplish the loop road.
Mr. Park stated the concept is to try and accomplish the full
section of the pavement for the loop road. Abbott is expected to
install their final segment possibly as early as spring. Thompson
Boulevard has been shifted on the site plan so that the alignment
is more accurate at the intersection with Weiland Road. An
engineer has been hired, but the access to Weiland Road has only
been provided to Lake County recently, so the County access permit
process has not really started.
Mr. Park stated the entrance dropoff area has been changed to
create a more defined dropoff area in front of the building. He
further stated there is no objection to the next generation
realignment of parking off the loop road. He further noted the
Ice Partners is continuing its discussions with Abbott for the use
of Abbott's stormwater detention facility to handle water from the
site. Abbott will be determining if the facility has sufficient
capacity for the additional detention needs or whether the future
parking area in the southeast corner of the ice rink parking
parcel would need to become the detention area.
Mr. Park presented a brief report from a traffic engineer who did
traffic counts at three representative ice rinks with two full
rinks. This report contains actual counts and an analysis of what
would be a reasonable amount of parking. He noted the results
showing the normal use requiring just under 200 vehicles. The
maximum occupancy at special event is estimated at 380 vehicles.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 7
The traffic engineer's recommendations is that approximately 235
spaces will be sufficient for the proposed Buffalo Grove ice rink,
which proposes 306 parking spaces, well above this recommended
level.
Mr. Park noted the civil engineers are presently looking into
plans for the facility and the landscape plan and architectural
plans will be started soon.
Chairman Goldspiel stated it is the number of seats for the rink
that is of great concern. He stated 1300 seats is a large number
of seats.
Mr. Krewer stated 1300 seats is not an outrageous number for a
double rink facility.
Mr. Park stated they will put together a table of seats at various
rinks to get a sense of proportion.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the Commission had also asked for a
description of the usage that would be using all of these seats,
particularly daily usage and once a year usage.
Mr. Krewer stated this will be comparable to the Northbrook Ice
Rink. He stated all of these ice rinks tend to operate on a very
similar basis. He stated normal operations would be Monday
through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. would have 20 to 30 cars in
the lot at one time. 3:30 p.m. to 12:00 midnight, there would be
an average of 120 to 160 cars in the lot on a regular basis.
Saturday and Sunday hours would be 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 midnight and
would have the same number ( 120 to 160) cars in the lot. He
stated special events such as public skating, which is a higher
density activity, would add an additional 40 cars to the lot
during the peak times. However, a lot of this kind of activity
centers around kids being dropped off and picked up.
Chairman 7
Goldspiel stated the major concern would be when all 1300
P
seats are being used.
Mr. Krewer stated that would only occur for the ice shows which
are only about 10 days out of the year.
Commissioner Samuels noted the letter from Dr. Parks of School
District 102 regarding use of their lot for overflow parking.
However, he noted concern that some school functions may coincide
with the proposed ice show dates causing a parking nightmare.
Mr. Krewer stated since it usually is the same kids who
participate in school functions as the ice functions, he would
certainly be inclined to check with the schools regarding
conflicts in programming.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 8
Commissioner Samuels inquired about Mr. Pfeil's memo regarding
parking requirements for skating facilities.
Mr. Pfeil noted that there are definitely parking standards less
stringent than Buffalo Grove's ordinance. The standard which
consistently shows up in other ordinances is a ratio of off-street
parking that is 30 to 33 percent of the maximum number of people
that can be accommodated in the facility. He noted that if the 30
percent standard is applied to a facility with 1300 seats,
390 spaces would be required.
Mr. Benjoya stated that both rinks would never be used at the same
time and therefore there would only be seating capacity of 950.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if this would be put in writing.
Mr. Weinberg there will be parking spaces available as the Abbott
Business Center develops more office space.
Commissioner Samuels stated there would always be a huge
temptation for people to park across Weiland Road in the Old Farm
Village area in winter months. He asked if there could be some
kind of street parking restriction, like that used for Ravinia,
during special event days.
Mr. Pfeil stated this is both a Special Use and an annexation and
certain parameters can be stipulated for how the property is used.
He commented that it is important that the petitioners specify how
the facility will be used, and commit to a management program so
that traffic and parking during peak demand periods is handled
effectively. He noted that at this point the Village only knows
what is discussed at the ► type s and some t e of written
representation concerning how the facility will be used and
managed will be needed as part of the final zoning approval and
annexation agreement.
Commissioner Samuels stated he does not want the Village to get
into a situation of having to revoke a Special Use if the facility
is not managed in compliance with the approval. It would be much
better to ensure that the petitioners have made necessary
agreements with adjacent property owners to provide for parking
and traffic management in peak demand periods.
Mr. Raysa stated there are less drastic means than revoking a
Special Use. He noted a permanent injunction for breach of
contract could be used.
Mr. Pfeil stated that a clear written description of exactly how
this facility will be operated would be very helpful in ensuring
that parking and other functional items are adequately addressed
in the Village's approval of the Special Use and annexation
agreement.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 9
Mr. Krewer stated he is speaking with twenty years of experience
and this testimony would not be any more solid in writing.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the Commission would like something from
which to draft legal documents.
Commissioner Samuels noted it would be all right to use both rinks
to capacity if they have written agreements and the actual space
available at other offsite parking facilities which will be
policed. He stated he only wishes to protect residents in the
area from people parking across their driveways and the kind of
stuff that happens when such activities are not properly policed.
Commissioner Rosenston stated the peak load for special event days
would appear to be the off hours relative to an industrial park
and hopefully within a couple of years the Abbott Industrial Park
will be fully developed. If something in writing could be
obtained from Abbott, there will probably be more than enough
parking between the Abbott complex and the proposed parking for
anything that may occur at the ice rink.
Commissioner Samuels noted the entire facility orients to the
north whereas all the parking is to the south. He asked that some
kind of a secondary entrance be provided on the south side or
perhaps the entire building should be turned to face south or
east.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the following items need to be
addressed:
1. More definition on the type of events to be held and
differentiation between ordinary events and special events
to ensure sufficient parking
Commissioner Berman asked that a separate lane for dropoff and
through traffic be provided.
Mr. Park stated they have sufficient width to provide such a
separation.
Commissioner Rosenston stated relocation of an entrance to the
building on the east or southeast should be explored.
Chairman Goldspiel and Commissioner Samuels stated pedestrian
sidewalks needed to be defined and provided.
Commissioner Rosenston noted the need to define how people would
get from the Abbott parking area to the building.
Mr. Krewer stated the extra parking space is only for overflow
parking which will only be used during peak times.
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 10
Commissioner Berman stated that public skating is during peak
times and the overflow parking will be used on a regular basis.
Mr. Krewer asked if the Commission would prefer the building to be
turned around or would they prefer two accesses.
Commissioner Rosenston asked if there would still be enough land
for proper dropoff and traffic movement if the building were
turned. Therefore, it may be better to leave the building as is
and get some clear access on the south. He stated that somehow it
must be made easier for people to be willing to park in the
overflow lots.
Chairman Goldspiel asked the status of the loop road.
Mr. Park stated if the Village can accommodate some of the
Concrete Doctor's requests, the loop road will progress.
Chairman Goldspiel asked if there is a need for a traffic
consultant on this project.
Mr. Pfeil stated that Mr. Carmignani, the Village's consultant
should review the site plan, but it would less costly to the
petitioner if Mr. Cargmignani' s review occurs when the plan is in
a more refined stage.
Commissioner Samuels asked if there is a presumption there will be
a traffic signal at Thompson.
Mr. Pfeil stated if the warrants are met then the light will be
installed, but Lake County has not committed funding to a signal
at this location.
Mr. Kuenkler noted the signal would not be installed unless the
warrants are met. This would, of course, include projected
traffic into the proposed ice rink facility.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the developer is to address special
event parking and provide information on how much parking there is
at different rinks based on seating.
Mr. Weinberg asked what happens if the Village and the Concrete
Doctor do not come to terms so that the loop road can be
implemented.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the project does not work without the
loop road.
Mr. Benjoya stated they should not be punished for the Village and
Mr. Weiner not coming to terms.
Chairman Goldspiel stated that the Village does not approve
Buffalo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 11
developments which do not have their road access in accordance
with comprehensive planning for the area.
Commissioner Rosenston stated the concern is for the access to the
overflow parking lot. It makes no sense to access this lot
through another parking lot.
Commissioner Samuels stated implementation of the loop road has
been a requirement for several other proposed developments on this
site.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT - None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated the next regular meeting would be held on
February 15, 1995.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS - None
STAFF REPORT - None
NEW BUSINESS
Commissioner Krug noted that Clifford Chrysler or the Toyota
dealer has been parking cars on the detention basin and as there
is an ordinance against parking on unpaved areas, it the matter
should be looked into.
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Krug and
carried unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Goldspiel adjourned the
meeting at 11:00 p.m.
Respectfully subm' ted,
Fay Rubi , Recording Secretary
APP VED BY:
e-
S EP N GO SPIEL
Buff
alo Grove Plan Comm-Regular Meeting-February 1, 1995-Page 12