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1978-12-06 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION Dearborn/Hidden Lake DECEMBER 6, 1978 Chairman Genrich called the meeting to order at 7 :45 PM in the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard. Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich Mr. Shields Mr. Goldspiel Mrs. Sheldon Mr. Button Commissioners Absent: Mr. Davis Also Present: Mr. Sonny LaBrant, President, Dearborn Development Mr. Philip Cook, Vice President, Dearborn Mr. Walt Caspers, Engineer, Dearborn Mr. Mike Depasquali, Dearborn Mr. Bruce Johnston, Architect, Dearborn Mr. Harold Roggendorf, Superintendent, District 102 Mr. Stan Crosland, Park District Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee Mr. Bob Bogart, Trustee Mr. Bill Sommer, Assistant Village Manager Mr. Bart Delaney, Planning Coordinator Mr. John Kelly, Prospective Commissioner Mr. Craig Gilbert, Prospective Commissioner Mr. Chris Palmer, Prospective Commissioner COMMUNICATIONS Chairman Genrich read a letter from Mr. Burt Harris, in which Mr. Harris stated his reasons for resigning as a Plan Commissioner. LIAISON REPORTS Chairman Genrich stated that there would be meetings of the Village Center Committee on Monday, December 11 , 1978, and Monday, December 18, 1978, at 6:30 PM in the Municipal Building. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Commissioner Shields moved approval of the minutes of the November 15, 1978 Regular Meeting, subject to corrections. Commissioner Sheldon seconded the motion. Corrections are as follows : Page 2, Mid-page: The sentence should read "The motion was withdrawn for lack of a second. " rather than "dropped" . Upon voice vote , the motion carried unanimously. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 2 - PROSPECTIVE COMMISSIONERS Mr. Chris Palmer, 1069 Parker Lane, and a village resident for 6 years , gave the Commission a brief personal background. This was the first meeting Mr. Palmer attended. Mr. Craig Gilbert, and Mr. John Kelly, both restated their backgrounds for the Commission. COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS - Burglary Prevention Code Commissioner Sheldon reported that she had met with the Police and Fire Departments on this subject. The Committee has also interviewed 5 different developers, who are, on the whole, in favor of the ordi- nance. The cost would probably be between $125 and $150 per home. Mrs. Sheldon then explained some of the changes to be made in the current draft of the Buffalo Grove Anti-Burglary Security Code : Page 2, Paragraph C : She stated that the deadbolt lock may be operated from the outside with a key, but, due to fire codes, must be operated from the inside by a turning device, p Qc, did: . LJ. Page 5, Paragraph B: This would be changed so that the doors would not be self-locking; they would be single cylinder. Page 6, Paragraph A: The sliding door of a patio door will be on the inside so that it cannot be lifted out. The ex- ception to this will be in apartments where the sliding patio door is considered the back door, in which case it is against the fire code to have the door slide on the inside. Page 7, III : In cases where there are basement windows, they must be a fire escape, which also makes them easily accessible to intruders. There are 2 possible ways of handling this : 1 . Put locks on the windows. 2. Rather than have the door leading from the house to the basement of hollow-core con- struction, it would be a solid door with a deadbolt lock. Mrs . Sheldon also pointed out that residents must be aware of the need for them to take precautions themselves, such as keeping doors and windows locked, etc . The Police Department is going to present this Code to the Village Board on Monday, December 11 , 1978. Commissioner Button moved that the Plan Commission, having reviewed the Buffalo Grove Anti-Burglary Security Code, notes that its effect would be to contribute in a positive and substantial manner to the prevention of crime within the Village, and recommends its enactment to the Village Board of Trustees . Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 3 Commissioner Sheldon seconded the motion, which was unanimously ap- proved by voice vote. DEARBORN/HIDDEN LAKE Mr. Roggendorf stated that, according to Public Law #94-142, the public schools must educate 3 and 4 year old children needing special help. He said that the district is not receiving any credit on the ordinance for 3 and 4 year old children. Mr. Roggendorf said that the rest of District 102 's reaction is self- explanatory in their letter to the Plan Commission of December 6, 1978, in which the final paragraph of the letter reads : "Aptakisic-Tripp School remains in opposition to the Hidden Lake Subdivision as proposed. " Mr. Roggendorf said that Lake County now has 575 three and four year old children in training, which represents between 8 and 15% of the total population of that age group. Commissioner Button asked if there is any difference between towns. Mr. Roggendorf answered that the only statistic he is sure of is that Lake County percentages are higher than state-wide. He also urged the Commissioners to take into consideration the financial burden they will be placing on the Village residents in the future if they con- tinue to approve plans such as Hidden Lake. Mr. Crosland stated that his letter of Decembe , 1978 to Mr. Delaney summarizes the position of the Park Board, which is& opposed to this development as it now stands. Mr. Crosland said that the land Bona- 1 tions do not meet the Park District's requirements. Also , no recrea- tional or open space, other than private use, is indicated in this plan. Mr. Crosland stated that all information must be distributed 7 days in advance of any public meeting in order for any agency to have time to make an intelligent response . Mr. Crosland was disturbed because he did not receive the packet containing information on Hidden Lake the full 7 days in advance of this meeting. Mr. Johnston stated that they made a presentation, and answered ques- tions, to the Park District at a meeting on iBecember -1', 1978. Mr. Crosland said that the Park District wants a letter of intent from Dearborn Development Company. Mr. Genrich asked if Mr. Crosland's basic point is that this is unfair to the Park District because they have not been given sufficient time to prepare for this meeting. Mr. Crosland stated that they are unprepared to answer a letter of intent because Dearborn did not deliver whattooMAAr had asked for. u.A u z0 Mr. Roggendorf stated that Mr. Delaney and Mr. Sommer have been extremely helpful to District 102, and he did not wish to fault them for not receiving the Dearborn report before today. Mr. Crosland stated that his point is that there is an established time-table of meetings, and that people are required to make public statements without being supplied with sufficient information. The Park Board is being asked to respond at tonight's Plan Commission Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 4 - `7 AS',!. a , meeting, which is only 6 days after their meeting of `De-e-earber-4, 1978. Mr. Crosland stated that the Park Board is not allowing any credit for open space on the plan being discussed tonight (Plan Commission File #1078-2) . Mr. Johnston stated that Dearborn will abide by the Village ordinance relative to school donations. He also pointed out that the type of dwelling being presented will generally generate less school children than the average single-family dwelling. Mr. Roggendorf asked why anyone without children would buy a 3 bedroom home. Mr. Johnston stated that the 3rd bedroom is designed as a den. Mr. Johnston explained various points covered in the "Report of Planning Commission Requests" dated November 27, 1978, and prepared by Johnston Associates. (NOTE: This report has been distributed, and is also attached to the original copy of these minutes, as well as in the Plan Commission file on Dearborn Development) . Chairman Genrich asked Mr. Sommer and Mr. Delaney if they agree with the points covered in the report. Mr. Delaney stated that the 24' pavement is geared to the cul-de-sac areas being private. The Village Board has strong feelings that these areas should be public rights-of-way, in which case, the 24' pavement should be 27' . Mr. Delaney also stated that the 22 ' set-back of the units should re- main constant with the land plan. If all were consistent to ordinances, the houses would be 12 ' closer together than they now are. Mr. Delaney stated that the staff has mixed reaction to this develop- ment. From a planning standpoint, it is unique, but from a maintenance standpoint, it creates problems. He identified cul-de-sacs with elongated driveways and parking areas, which would make both parking and mainte- nance difficult. The parking areas would have to be maintained by the homeowners ' association. Regarding temporary access off of Busch Road, Mr. Delaney reported that the staff feels that Buffalo Grove Road is an essential element to this plan. There are two solutions to this problem: 1 . Bring temporary access road to Busch Road. (The staff does not think this is a practical solution. ) 2. Get the development of Buffalo Grove Road moving, either by: a. Full development from Dearborn's entrance road to Busch Road, or b. One-half improvement running the entire length of the subdivision. Regarding the southern road connection to the M-1 parcel of land just South of the Dearborn property, it is felt that the need for the southern access is not necessary as long as Buffalo Grove Road is continued. A southern road connection would break up the "green belt" Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 5 - area, and the bicycle path could be used as emergency access. Mr. Delaney stated that the parking provided is in excess of what is required. However, he noted one particular cul-de-sac where there are only 6 parking spaces to service 22 units . He also stated that, in the event there are no basements, it is safe to assume that the one-car garage units will become storage or work areas, thereby moving the parking from the garage to the driveway, and visitors or homeowners with 2 cars would be forced to park on the roads. Therefore, even though the ordinance would be met by this plan, the staff feels that it would create problems . Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the staff had considered whether or not the 27' width was adequate for the collector street. Mr. Delaney replied that it is consistent with the street that it will tie into in the Highlands. Mr. Johnston responded regarding the parking. He said that the large , 3 bedroom units would be the ones likely to have families living in them, and those units will have 2-car garages . The other units would likely be singles and "empty nesters" . Dearborn's intent is that there be no street parking in the cul-de-sac areas. Mr. Johnston then showed slides, which the Plan Commission had asked for, giving examples of other, similar developments. All statistics of these developments are shown on Page 4 of the "Report of Planning Commission Requests" . P. 100'41' PA `"-R'ek- aga, '` " Mr. Johnston also reacted to the request that this development be V ` . compared to both R-9 and PUD standards, and stated that Dearborn Srno " r� exceeds the requirements in every instance. Mr. Johnston stated that they feel that, whether the park system is public or private, they should get credit for the park system. They have fit specifically into the Master Plan, and they submit that they have more than met the needs of recreation for this development. He showed a sketch of what they feel might develop to the South, which shows that there is much more park area than just what is shown on their plan. Regarding detention, Mr. Caspers displayed a sketch, and explained the flood plain, which shows a 680 contour. There is a natural ridge line on the site located at roughly a 25/75% ratio. He also pointed out the burming on the sketch. He said the normal water elevation is approximately 676, and stated that there is a 3 to 1 slope where the maximum high water hits. Mr. Caspers stated that, although his studies on the water quality are preliminary, the water quality is now good. However, further studies must be completed to see what happens to the water quality in the future (during development, etc . ) . Commissioner Goldspiel asked how the lakes are fed. Mr. Caspers re- plied that, in his opinion, they are spring-fed. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 6 - Commissioner Goldspiel asked if they had encountered any extensive amounts of standing water on the property. Mr . Caspers stated that the creek feeds immediately from the North, and that there is stand- ing water on occasion. He also said that there is flood plain out- side of the lake area. Mr. Goldspiel noted that the Lake County Soil Report states that there is very bad soil in some areas. Mr. Caspers said that they plan to excavate good soil from the lake to be used in the poor soil areas. Mr. Johnston said that they know precisely where the bad soils lie , and they used this information when they did their planning, and all this information was taken into consideration from a very detailed soil analysis. He also noted that the Lake County report is compiled from just a shallow probe and aerial photos . Commissioner Button asked Mr. Johnston if they agree with the Lake County Soil Report, and Mr. Johnston replied that they disagree. Commissioner Button asked Mr. Johnston about the roads, and Mr. Johnston said that they are developable as they have shown, and they will use prudent engineering to make sure that this is done properly. Commissioner Sheldon asked what the cost factor is to put in the Buffalo Grove Road extension. She also asked how they feel about putting in one-half of the road. Mr. Depasquali stated that it costs $300/lineal foot for a 4-lane, divided highway; therefore, one-half of the road would cost $150/ lineal foot. Mr. Johnston stated that they will consider building one-half right- of-way from their entrance up North to Busch Road, or they will build a temporary access point to Busch Road through the open space in the Northwest corner. He said that no other developers have been required to build a road as pd,IL - 40 78 Commissioner Sheldon asked if there will be any problem in getting water to that area. Mr. Caspers replied that, as they understand it, the two wells will have adequate water for the area. Mr. Depasquali said they have been requested to provide a 16" water main to tie in to the existing one . Commissioner Sheldon asked about parking for en--than- mixateiy wed vehicles. Mr. Johnston said that they would require that they be parked in garages or off-site. This would be outlined in the Restrictive Covenant of the homeowners ' association. Commissioner Shields asked if the streets will be private or public . Mr. Johnston replied that they are in a position to have either. They have now designed for private, but could make them public by putting curbs around all private areas. Chairman Genrich asked how the staff feels about part being public and part being private. Mr. Delaney stated that the cul-de-sac areas should be examined as public right-of-way dedication. The curbed Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 7 - areas seem to make sense. If the curbed areas are acceptable to the Board, the staff could support that. The curbed cul-de-sacs would identify the public areas. Mr. Sommer stated that they would support the curbed areas, but there would be snow removal problems. Commissioner Shields stated the slides that were shown should have been taken on a week-end when everyone was at home so that the Commission could have seen how the parking works out. Commissioner Goldspiel said that he would like to see a map, or some other identification of where the good foliage is on the property, and whether or not it is being saved. Mr. Johnston displayed a diagram showing the foliage, and stated that they plan to preserve it. He said that they are going to break into the hedge rows because they detract from the overall program. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that one reason for going toward more density in this area in the Master Plan was to put in a more positive tax impact. He wondered why this development gives a negative impact on District 102. Mr. Johnston stated that the only thing that creates a positive tax impact is either commercial or industrial development. He said that, if this development only generates 96 students, it will break even. Mr. Roggendorf stated that single family and planned development have a negative impact on a school district, and that multi-family and industry create a positive impact. Commissioner Goldspiel said that perhaps, instead of this type of development, there should be multi-family on the site to get a posi- tive impact. Mr. Sommer stated that the Village is able to hold its costs down, which should offset for the taxpayer whatever increase there will be in the school district. Mr. Roggendorf stated that the Commissioners must realize that they are placing heavy taxation on people in a small area of the Village. He said that, by adding this increase to increases for all other new developments, there is a deficit of $864,000 over a 25 year period. He said the initial cost is the first year the district gets a student, because the house is not yet on the tax rolls. This cost is roughly $1400. In years 2-25, there is the cost of educating the child, minus the tax coming from the property. This cost is $119,967. Also to be figured is the cost of constructing a building. They assume a building to house 600 students would cost roughly 2.9 million dollars. Their cost is $558,000 to build a building for this subdivision. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 8 - Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the state provides funds for building, and Mr. Roggendorf said that they k*n no.t. ru , orif, _ ,_7P Mr. Delaney stated that, prior to a public Hearing, the Appearance Commission should be made aware of this development, and their input should be a part of the Public Hearing. Mr. Gilbert said that he can forsee a lot of problems if the streets do not go public immediately. He thinks they should be public streets from the very beginning, rather than one-half public and one-half private. 1�17G 9��e ruc_.CenuAal: Mr. Bogart stated that the Commission should reviewJthis plan on its merits, and not on the basis of the , because that should be the concern of the Village Board. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he disagreed, and that he feels it should also be the concern of the Plan Commission. Chairman Genrich said that it was time to summarize where we stand. He would like to know if the Plan Commission would prefer that the streets be all public , a split between public and private , or all private. Commissioner Button feels they should be totally dedicated and Village maintained, including snow removal. Commissioners Sheldon, Shields, and Goldspiel all felt the streets should be public . CONCLUSIONS : 1 . The Plan Commission feels that, in this development, the streets should be all public , and maintained by the Village. The Commission will recommend this to the Board at a later date. Chairman Genrich asked what the Commission thought should be recommended to the Board about Buffalo Grove Road, and a re- commendation about what the developer should do. Commissioner Sheldon stated that it is policy not to advocate one-half streets. Mr. Sommer said that, even being a one-half street, it would be at least 24' wide, or two full lanes. Commissioner Button stated that, of the options mentioned, he would go with the one-half street North from the Dearborn Develop- ment collector street to Busch Road, providing it is built to the specifications of the bearings on the final completed road. Commissioner Goldspiel asked what happens when the property to the South comes into development and needs access. Commissioner Button stated he thinks they would have to make the same type of contribution. Mr. Sommer stated that the staff is trying to figure out, through the FAUS program, how they are going to get Buffalo Grove Road Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 9 - built. They are not sure what their chances are of getting federal funds if they get developer funds. The staff's position is that something has to be done from the collector street North to Busch Road. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that, of the two alternatives, he thinks it is better to have the 24' one-half street than temporary access through the park. Commissioner Shields favors the one-half street from the collector street North to Busch Road. Commissioner Sheldon also favors the one-half street from the collector street North to Busch Road, as long as it is not detremental to receiving federal funds. 2. The Plan Commission is in tentative agreement that the developer should be required to construct an approximate 24' width road (Buffalo Grove Road) from its collector street North to Busch Road, as shown on the Hidden Lake/Dearborn Plan, Revised Date 11-27-78, Plan Commission File #1078-2. 3. Chairman Genrich asked for a specific recommendation from the staff on parking. * * # Commissioner Goldspiel does not think 27' is adequate for the collector street; he thinks it may need to be wider than normal. * * # 4. The staff will review the street widths, cul-de-sacs , etc . , in terms of whether or not they meet the Village recommendations, and will report back with their findings and recommendations. NOTE: Carl Genrich is basically against any variance, but under- stands holding to a 25' set-back would bring the buildings about 12 ' closer together. Commissioner Goldspiel thinks the driveway set-backs should be 23 ' rather than 22 ' . Commissioner Button also thinks it should be 23 ' . Commissioner Sheldon thinks it should be re-evaluated, and Commissioner Shields concurs. Mr. Johnston stated that the 25' driveway set-back could be accomodated but 27' would be a problem.* # 5. The staff is to re-evaluate the 22 ' set-back for the driveways, and to compare that to what the requirement is for a set-back on a dedicated street, and whether or not the staff would recommend any deviation from that figure. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 10 - i Regarding the municipal site, Mr. Sommer stated that the staff recommendation is for a fire station. Chairman Genrich asked about the trees on,the East side of the site, and Mr. Sommer stated that they would try to save them. 6. The Plan Commission previously asked for, and still wants, a complete recommendation of use for the municipal site from the staff. The staff is requested to particularly evaluate the suitability of the soil for the size fire station contemplated. 7. Mr. Genrich stated Plan Commission policy. Plan #1078-2 (11-27-78 Plan Revision) is the plan being considered. The developer is to have further discussions with the Park District, but this is the basic plan that the Commission is going to Public Hearing with. The Commission does not want it changed for the Public Hearing. Park District recommendations on this plan are greatly desired, but the Commission does not want it changed prior to the Public Hearing. * # Mr. Johnston said that the open space will stay open space whether it be public or private. it Mr. Caspers turned over the 100-Year Flood Limit Document dated September 8, 1978 (Plan Commission File #1078-3) to Chairman Genrich for the Plan Commission files . * * * 8. The Commission wants to identify the Preliminary 100-Year Flood Limit Document to the Village Engineer, and requests his review of this document, Plan #1078-2, and requests the other engineering studies of the developer, and the Capp Associates letter of December 6, 1978 also be reviewed. The Plan Commission expects that, prior to Public Hearing, the Engineer will give us "ENGINEERING CONCEPT APPROVAL" of the detention, retention, engineering, and lake plans, as well as agreement to generalized boundry lines of the lake plan areas as shown by the developer's engineer. * * # Commissioner Goldspiel feels that it is essential to have a report on the water quality of the lakes. 9. The Village staff will secure an evaluation report and recommen- dation from the Village forester of the Bruce Johnston tree plan identifying trees suggested to be preserved. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission 'i. Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 i - 11 - 10. Chairman Genrich requested the developer to meet with the Park District again, and to work with the Park District in answering their questions and meeting the Village 's park requirements. Mr. Johnston said that Mr. Crosland wants to know that Dearborn will be the actual developer of the land and will, in fact, build the buildings as shown. He wants a letter confirming this. Commissioner Goldspiel thinks that the problem of the dedication of the streets would be a problem for the Public Hearing. Mr. Delaney said that there is a possibility that the developer must go back to the Park District, which would make it difficult to set a Public Hearing date at this time . * * 11 . Chairman Genrich requested the staff and the developer to do as many of the things listed as possible by December 20, 1978, at which time the Commission will consider a Public Hearing. PLAN COMMISSION APPOINTMENT Commissioner Shields moved that the Commission recommend the appoint- ment of Mr. John Kelly, 305 Timber Hill Road, as a Plan Commissioner to serve until April 30, 1980. Commissioner Sheldon seconded the motion, which was unanimously approved by voice vote. TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION Commissioner Goldspiel stated that Mr. Hill, Chairman of the RTA had attended the last meeting of the Transportation Commission, and had stated that transportation planning should be done at the local level. Mr. Hill will also be assigning a liaison to the Village. STAFF REPORT Mr. Sommer noted to the Plan Commission that the staff is currently establishing a long-range financial plan for a 10-year time period. At this stage, the development of the program is in a preliminary form; however, it is anticipated that Plan Commission input will be required as the program develops; specifically, with regard to the population �..J projections and land use development. Chairman Genrich took note of Mr. Sommers ' comment, and stated that the Commission would be willing to participate in any way that they could. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978 - 12 - ADJOURNMENT Commissioner Button moved that the meeting be adjourned. Commissioner Goldspiel seconded the motion, and upon voice vote, the motion was unanimously approved, and the meeting was adjourned at 11 :35 PM. Respectfully submitted, Janet Sirabian Recording Secretary APPROVED: ‘144;1,4 Carl Genrich, Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting December 6, 1978