1978-12-20 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Williamsburg-on-the-Lake
Dearborn/Hidden Lake
DECEMBER 20 , 1978
Chairman Genrich called the meeting to order at 7 :30 PM in the Municipal
Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr. Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
Mrs. Sheldon
Mr. Button
Mr. Davis
Mr. Kelly
Also Present: Mr. Louis Shassion, Williamsburg
Mr. Paul Ulatowski, Williamsburg, Engineer
Mr. Lawrence Kettler, First Charter Service Corp.
Mr. Lawrence Freedman, Williamsburg, Attorney
Mr. Bill Kiddie, Park District
Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee
Mr. Bob Bogart, Trustee
Mr. Bart Delaney, Planning Coordinator
Mr. Jim Truesdell, Staff Planner
Mr. Craig Gilbert, Prospective Commissioner
Mr. Chris Palmer, Prospective Commissioner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Commissioner Sheldon moved approval of the minutes of the December 6, 1978
Regular Meeting, subject to corrections. Commissioner Davis seconded
the motion. Corrections are as follows :
Page 2 : Page 2, : The phrase "single cylinder, dead-bolt. " should
Paragraph C be added at the end of the paragraph.
Page 3: Paragraph 7 : The date of the Park District meeting should be
November 30, 1978, rather than December 1 , 1978.
Paragraph 8 : The last sentence should read: "Mr. Crosland
stated that they are unprepared to answer a
letter of intent because Dearborn did not deliver
what the Park District had asked for. "
Page 4: Top of Page : The date of the meeting should be November 30 , 1978,
rather than December 1 , 1978.
Page 5: 4th Full The sentence "The Plan Commission was provided
Paragraph a set of these slides. Mr. Genrich asked the
staff to take physical possession of these slides
and keep them available for future Village use. "
should be added at the end of the paragraph.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 20, 1978
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Page 6 : Paragraph 7 : The phrase "on the Buffalo Grove Road right-
of-way. " should be added to the last sentence.
Paragraph 9 : The first sentence should read: "Commissioner
Sheldon asked about parking for recreational
vehicles. "
Page 8: Paragraph 1 : The sentence should read: "Commissioner Goldspiel
asked if the state provides funds for building,
and Mr. Roggendorf said that they no longer do. "
Paragraph 4: In the first sentence, the words "economic
consideration" should replace the words
"school district" .
Upon voice vote, the motion carried unanimously.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS :
Commissioner Davis reported that he had attended the December 18, 1978
Village Board meeting. He reported that the Ethics Statement will be
sent to all commissioners for their review, and must be returned to the
staff no later than January 3, 1979, as it will be considered at the
January 8, 1979 Board Meeting. Mr. Davis said that the Statement should
be reviewed very carefully by the members of this Commission, and should
be given serious consideration by prospective members of the Commission,
particularly anyone associated with a builder.
Commissioner Sheldon stated that she had attended meetings of the Zonipg
Board of Appeals . She feels that the Plan Commission should know the
status of Dominick's in the Buffalo Grove Mall. Mrs. Sheldon does not
feel that there is any way that the ZBA can grant the variance requested.
Mrs. Sheldon also asked if the Plan Commission should have copies of
ordinances. Mr. Marienthal said "Yes" .
The Plan Commission requested the staff to distribute 2 or 3 copies of
the new Sign Ordinance to the Plan Commission, to be reviewed by all
Commissioners.
WILLIAMSBURG-ON-THE-LAKE:
Mr. Louis Shassion informed the Commission that he is now the contract
purchaser. He said that it was his feeling at the Board Meeting that
the Trustees would like higher density housing South of the Creek. Mr.
Shassion would like single-family housing, and stated that he would like
to pursue Sketch A, Exhibit #12, which is being presented to the Commission
at this meeting. Mr. Shassion also stated that he would like to make
this area single-family housing, and change the name to Wind Dale. He
said the houses will probably be priced at $120,000 and up.
Chairman Genrich stated that, in the plan which had been referred to
the Plan Commission, Mr. Kettler had said he could give the Village 15
II' acres of open space, and Mr. Shassion is now showing only 11 or 12 acres .
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 20, 1978
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Mr. Marienthal said that Mr. Kettler's agreement with the Board was
that there would be no more than 93 single-family homes, and he would
have 15 acres of open space which would be dedicated to the Village.
Commissioner Goldspiel said that policy was not to have a cash donation,
but to have a land donation.
Mr. Shassion asked the Commission if Mr. Kettler's plan, (Exhibit #11 )
is acceptable to them.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the Commission wants to develop the
best possible single-family plan.
Commissioner Button stated that the 15 acres of open space must defi-
nitely be in the plan.
Commissioner Shields said he would prefer Exhibit #11 .
Commissioner Sheldon asked Mr. Shassion if he understood the direction
would be single family. Mr. Shassion replied that he thinks the best
use of the land is single family. Mrs. Sheldon said that the direction
of the Board to the Plan Commission has been to work out single family
housing, as shown on Exhibit #11 (78165) .
Commissioner Davis stated that when this parcel of land went to the
Village as a referendum, 15 acres of open space was shown; therefore,
since that is what the residents expect, he feels the Village must
stay with that.
Commissioner Kelly said that his feeling is that there should definitely
be 15 acres of open space.
Mr. Shassion stated that he will do engineering on Exhibit #11 if the
Commission is in agreement that that is the plan to go with.
Mr. Ulatowski stated that they would excavate in the flood area to fill
in other areas . Approximately 75-80% of the land must be excavated.
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Mr. Shassion stated that, regarding the 15 acres of open space, he
must deal with the Park District as well as the Plan Commission.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that an inventory should be made showing
the valuable foliage, and a plan should be developed trying to save
such foliage .
Commissioner Sheldon said she is in consensus that the development should
be single-family housing with:
1 . Exhibit #11 as the base plan.
2 . Although she is in agreement with using Exhibit #11 as a base plan,
she would like to see fewer homes and bigger lots.
3. Until we know more about the engineering and what is salvageable,
and have answers to other questions, she does not see how we can
give any opinion to any plan.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 20, 1978
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Mrs. Sheldon would like to see at least R-4 zoning, or less, on the
entire parcel.
Mr. Shassion stated that they did 9 or 10 sketch plans , and he feels
that the two displayed at this meeting are basically what could be
done with the site.
Chairman Genrich stated:
1 . Exhibit #11 is essentially the plan which will be considered.
The Commission would prefer to have lesser density and higher
priced homes, except for Mr. Goldspiel who does not agree with
this , because , since there is all open space (the golf course and
creek area) , he does not think a large-lot development is suit-
able for the area.
Commissioner Button stated that his preference is multi-family
housing, but in order to consider the sensitivity of the resi-
dents to the North, and the school district, he agrees there
should be higher-priced homes.
Mr. Davis suggested the possibility of extending the larger
lots around the golf course .
2. The consensus of the Commission, with the exception of Mr.
Goldspiel, is that there be larger lots, lower density, and
higher-priced homes tYw:L ,gin t , E fr—
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3. The Commission is going to review Plan #11 . Mr. Genrich would
like to suggest that we ask the staff to meet with the developer
in terms of evaluating the traffic plan, specifically regarding
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the connection to the South, and the safety of same connection.
4. The Commission would like the staff to have the Village Forester
review the trees to see if there is anything which should be
saved, and get it documented.
5. Mr. Shassion should refine the retention/detention, and utilize
the Village staff and try to do what he can to maintain the
existing conditions as much as possible.
6. Exhibit #11 is the sketch plan, and the Commission would not meet
again until the engineering is further along. Mr. Shassion can
consider slight modifications to that, and future meetings will
be scheduled when necessary.
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Commissioner Davis stated that Exhibit #11 basically keeps the
Board 's promise to the people of Buffalo Grove before the refer-
endum, and he feels that is the plan to proceed with.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 20 , 1978
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The Commission will not meet again with Mr. Shassion until there is
engineering concept approval.
Mr. Delaney clarified two matters :
1 . The Plan Commission will not accept anything less than 15
acres of open space.
2 . Petitioner's request is for a down zoning from R-9 PUD to
R-4 and R-5 straight zoning.
Mr. Shassion asked why the zoning must be changed, and Commissioner
Goldspiel answered that it is for legal protection.
Chairman Genrich stated that, whether the zoning is changed or
not, it is a major change in the plan, and requires a Public
Hearing.
7. This will be a major change in PUD zoning from R-9 PUD to R-4
and R-5 PUD.
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Mr. Shassion asked if, since an agreement was reached relative
to the 15 acres, the Village will participate with the installation
of the 20" water main. Mr. Marienthal answered "no" .
Mr. Kettler stated that the agreement was that, if they were to
develop R-4, then the Village would undertake the responsibility
of the water main. If there were 81 lots, R-5, giving 15 acres,
the Village would assume no responsibility of the water main.
The Board then said they should put in 93 lots, and use the pro-
ceeds from the other lots for the water main.
Mr. Shassion asked why the zoning must be R-4. Mr. Marienthal
said it must be R-4 because that is the same as the zoning on the
North side of Checker Road.
DEARBORN DEVELOPMENT:
Chairman Genrich asked Commissioner Sheldon to chair a committee con-
sisting of herself, Mr. Davis and Mr. Kelly to review, on behalf of
the Plan Commission:
1 . The Park plan for recreation and open space .
2. To coordinate with the Appearance Commission in terms of the Ap-
pearance Commission review of whether or not the plan meets the
conditions for giving incentive benefits under the PUD ordinance.
Mr. Kiddle stated that, as of today, Mr. Crosland said that Dearborn
wants to come back and meet with the Park District on January 11 , 1979.
There will be a committee meeting regarding engineering on January 4, 1979.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 20, 1978
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Mrs. Armstrong 's letter to the Village contains more detailed information.
Chairman Genrich appointed Commissioner Button to chair a committee
consisting of himself, Mr. Shields, and Mr. Goldspiel to review and
make suggestions on the proposed Ethics Ordinance . Mr. Genrich
stated that the Board has asked for review and comments individually
to the Board by January 3, 1979.
Mr. Delaney discussed his letter of December 20, 1978.
PARK DISTRICT: Mr. Crosland confirmed that Mrs. Armstrong would be
sending a letter to Chairman Genrich. Through discussion of the
overall concept, the staff is trying to establish what the Park Dis-
trict's position is. It is expected that full credit will be granted
for the pool area, and Mr. Crosland expected that full credit would
be given for the East/West bike path.
The detention area in the Southeast corner will be worked in a coordinated
effort with the existing detention area in the Highlands. Until then,
some partial credit will be granted. The same will be true for the
municipal site . At least one acre will be needed for this site, for
use as a fire station.
Discussion couldn' t narrow an opinion down on the creditability of the
Lakes. It is possible that it can be credited. The developer intends
to make the 3 lakes deep enough so that fish can spawn.
There will be a Park District meeting on January 11 , 1979, and a work-
shop on January 4, 1979.
STREETS : The Plan indicates a turning radius of 44' , which is in accord-
ance with the subdivision regulations . The cul-de-sacs must be paved
to a diameter of 87 ' . The intention of the cul-de-sac areas is to
provide one-way traffic , and to prohibit parking along cul-de-sac
areas. The outer rim would remain the same, and the pavement would
decrease from the inside .
A 22 ' pavement is recommended in the cul-de-sac areas for the following
reasons :
1 . To control one-way movement around cul-de-sacs,
2. To prohibit parking around the cul-de-sacs,
3. To allow more area for unassigned guest parking.
Mr. Boysen brought up the fact that all public dedicated roads require
sidewalks, and Dearborn is not proposing sidewalks . The staff does not
feel it is necessary to have sidewalks. Mr. Truesdell said that, al-
though there are no sidewalks, there are a number of interior paths
and sidewalks between the units.
Where minor streets are collector streets, subdivision regulations call
for 27' pavements. The staff wants it to be increased. The increased
pavement width was suggested by Mr. Boysen, who felt 33 ' would be suf-
ficient. There will be a firm recommendation from the staff. The ad-
vantage of the increased pavement width is that it will aid in overflow
parking. The disadvantage of the increased pavement width is that it
will decrease the plantings along the street.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 20, 1978
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Commissioner Davis voiced a concern about the cul-de-sac areas having
clear visibility, so that children playing would not be endangered.
Regarding the 25 ' setback on dedicated streets, Mr. Delaney pointed out
that this plan shows 22 ' . Mr. Goldspiel said that we have required 23 '
in other subdivisions. The staff has endorsed Mr. Goldspiel 's point,
and endorsed 23 ' setbacks .
Chairman Genrich polled the Commission on whether or not they are in
agreement with going ahead with the 22 ' pavement as proposed by the
staff.
1 . The Commission is in agreement with the 22 ' pavement in the cul-
de-sac areas.
2. After a poll, it was decided that the Commission endorses sidewalks
on the loop streets , but not on the cul-de-sacs.
3. After a poll, the Commission endorsed increasing the width of the
collector streets to 33 ' .
4. After a poll, the Commission stated that it is agreeable to 23 '
setbacks.
Chairman Genrich asked the staff to check into the following:
1 . The staff is asked to look into the idea of the parking spaces within
the cul-de-sacs. Do they present legal or visual problems? How
far do you have to pull parking areas off the edges of the cul-de-
sacs so that someone coming around the corner has adequate visibility?
The Commission would also like comment from the Police Department as
to how the parking can be ,patr-olhed.
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2. The Commission must have engineering concept approval before the
Public Hearing.
Mr. Delaney stated that Mr. Boysen could have conceptual input
by January 3, 1979.
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3 . The Village Forester presently has pneumonia; however, his review
of the vegetation plan will be available for the Public Hearing.
4. The developer will developan additional f � p parking scheme . The staff
should conduct an evaluation before the Public Hearing.
5. The Commission wants the emergency access for the Fire and Police
Departments to be shown on the plan which is presented at the
Public Hearing.
6. The list of property owners should be placed in the files.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 20 , 1978
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Commissioner Goldspiel is still concerned about the status of the
soil. He wants an investigation of the soil for the fire station.
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7. The Commission wants to recognize Mr. Goldspiel 's concern regarding
the status of the soil for the fire house, and, as the engineer
evaluates the plan, he should consider Mr. Goldspiel 's request.
The staff should respond on the soil problems, and how they would
be handled in building the fire station on the site identified.
LI 8. The Plan Commission wants to reserve its opinion as to what their
recommendation is on Buffalo Grove Road until after January 10, 1979 .
Mr. Delaney stated that the Public Hearing will be held on January 24,
1979. The staff anticipates that everything will be in hand at
least by January 17, 1979, including the revised plan.
Mr. Kiddle stated that the Park District is looking for something
unique . He hopes that the Park District can get the help of the
Plan Commission and the staff to find out if this is a viable in-
strument going into the 1980 's . Mr. Kiddie suggested that the
developer take Hidden Lake and do something unique with it. He feels
that if some consideration is given to developing something unique,
it could be a top notch private factor.
9 . Mrs . Sheldon and her committee will consider the point that Mr.
Kiddie made about evaluating whether or not the Plan Commission
should take a position relative to recommending that the open
space and lake might better be maintained in the long run by a
homeowner's association or by public ownership and maintenance.
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Mr. Kiddie said that the developer would have to develop the land.
The Park District will not take a swamp.
PROSPECTIVE COMMISSIONER:
Chairman Genrich brought up the possible appointment of Mr. Craig Gilbert,
who is employed by Centex, as a Plan Commissioner. Mr. Genrich has
checked with the Village and found that Centex has nothing which could
come before the Plan Commission. Mr. Balling said that Centex does not
have any plans for building in Buffalo Grove in the future. Mr. Raysa
said that there is no basis for conflict of interest.
Mr. Chris Palmer restated his background for the Commission.
Commissioner Davis suggested holding off recommendation of anyone new
as a Plan Commissioner until after the Ethics Statement is finalized.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 20, 1978
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Commissioner Shields made a motion that the Plan Commission recommend
the appointment of Mr. Craig Gilbert, 280 Red Bud Place, as a Plan
Commissioner, to the President and Board of Trustees, through April 30,
1980 . Commissioner Kelly seconded the motion, which was unanimously
approved by voice vote. Commissioner Sheldon had to leave before the
vote was taken.
Commissioner Goldspiel suggested that Mr. Gilbert be given a copy of
the Ethics Ordinance before his appointment by the Board. Mr. Delaney
will supply same.
Mr. Bogart thinks that a detailed resume should be supplied by Mr.
Gilbert, because of the possible conflict.
LONG RANGE FINANCIAL PLAN:
Mr. Truesdell distributed and commented on his report of the Long
Range Financial Plan. This report deals with population and land use
projections through 1990. He said that commercial and park lands will
increase at a rate of 4 acres and 5.5 acres per thousand population
respectively, and the 1990 population projection is 33,000. He also
said that the original 1990 population projection in the Comprehensive
Plan of 55,000 is no longer realistic . Therefore, these revisions are
being made in order to accurately project future finances in the Village .
VILLAGE CENTER :
The Village Center Committee will probably be making a recommendation to
the Board by mid-January. There is some concern that the Village might
have to go to developing the Village Center on a pragmatic basis.
1 . The Village is, in all probability, going to hire Brim/Braun as
consultants to provide aesthetic compatibility of the Center.
2 . Frank Callaghan and Burt Harris are both being considered as possible
consultants to acquire as much land as possible, leaning toward the
fact that the Village might condemn land if necessary. They will
primarily try to acquire land and prepare the plan, and subdivide
the land.
Mr. Goldspiel commented that money has been paid for Village Center con-
sultants, and this looks like they are no further along than they were
before .
ADJOURNMENT:
Commissioner Shields made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Commissioner
Button. Upon voice vote, the motion was unanimously approved, and the
meeting was adjourned at 10 :25 PM.
Respectfully submitted,
Janet Sirabian, Recording Secretary
APPROVED:
.�� Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
�ia '1. lieT1T' c , airman Regular Meeting
December 20, 1978