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1980-09-17 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION Cedar View Office and Residential Development (Mueller Farm) Comprehensive Plan Update September 17, 1980 Chairman Shields called the Regular Meeting to order in the Municipal Building, �./ 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove at 7:35 P.M. Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields Mr. Goldspiel Mr. Davis Mr. Shifrin - arrived at 8:50 P.A. Mr. Glover Mrs. Reid Commissioners Absent: Mrs. Sheldon Mr. Button Mrs. Kaszubowski Also Present: Mr. Dave Haller, Developer, Mueller Farm Mr. Dick Adams, President, Northgate Civic Association Mr. Jim Truesdell, Village Planner, Buffalo Grove APPROVAL OF MINUTES Commissioner Goldspiel moved approval of the July 2, 1980 Regular Meeting minutes subject to correction. Commissioner Reid seconded the motion. Page 5, paragraph 3 change Golver to Glover; Page 5, paragraph 4 add at after point; Page 9, paragraph 1 add one after family; Page 14, paragraph 9 add not after was; Page 16, paragraph 7 change or to to. AYES: Commissioners Goldspiel, Glover, Reid NAYES: None ABSTAIN: Commissioner Davis ABSENT: Commissioners Sheldon, Button, Kaszubowski Commissioner Goldspiel moved approval of the August 20, 1980 Regular Meeting minutes subject to correction. Commissioner Davis seconded the motion. Page 3, paragraph 10 change have parking spaces to include the parking spaces; Page 7, paragraph 2 change curve to curb. `.i COMMUNICATIONS The Chesterfield property will be referred to the Plan Commission which is located at Arlington Heights and Lake Cook Roads. Also a request for the Northwest Community Hospital Professional Center to be located on the property adjacent to the Emergency Building located at Lake Cook Road and Buffalo Grove Road. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 - 2 - Commissioner Davis stated that it was his understanding that the emergency center was to be staffed by doctors from Northwest Community Hospital. That this was not the case. It is being staffed by emergency doctors from MESA. He felt that the Commission should not consider further development until this situation was cleared up. Mx. Truesdell stated that Northwest Community Hospital has their plans in 1 and will be ready to make a presentation at the October 1, 1980 meeting. Mr. Goldspiel - At the Village Board Meeting, regarding the dedication of park land, specifically with regard to Green Knolls, the Park District asked that the outlots which provide access to the open space not be conveyed until they are graded and seeded. The Village Board set a policy agreeing with that unless there are special circumstances indicating someother way of doing it. TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION There was a celebration on Monday, September 15, 1980. The one millionth rider on the two bus routes serving Buffalo Grove was awarded a plaque and ten free rides on the bus. There will be a survey going out with the water bills regarding community needs for transportation in Buffalo Grove. CEDAR VIEW OFFICE AND RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT Mr. Truesdell - This development was in front of the Commission in October, 1979 and Mr. Haller ran into problems with county right-of-way. He has now resolved those problems. The plan before us is similar to the October, 1979 plan. Mr. Truesdell then briefly reviewed Mrs Park's memo dated June 9, 1980 to the Plan Commission titled Cedar View Development. He further stated that one other comment of the staff was that the public right-of-way that runs east/west in the southern part of the plan shows a cul-de-sac which is smaller in dia- meter than the subdivision regulations require. Sixty feet radius on the right- of-way is required. In this plan the radius is fourty-three feet. Subdivision regulations require a fourty-three and a half radius on the pavement itself and this plan shows a thirty-five foot radius. Our major concern is there is adequate turn around for snow removal vehicles. The subdivision regulations do not allow a cul-de-sac longer than five hundred feet. This is longer but staff feels this we could accommodate. In this case it is something that we could accommodate because there is the road that connects to the north end of �./ that bulb and could be a secondary access route for emergency vehicles. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 _ _ 3 Mr. Haller - What we attempted, prior to the acquisition of the property, was to meet with the individual home owners that border the property. I tried to work out a plan that would maintain the integrity of the homes and of their investment. At the same time I tried to provide the multiple complex that exists with the units under the intergovernmental agreement between Arlington Heights and Buffalo Grove. ICI This plan shows fourteen point faurty-nine acres with a total of one hundred thirty-five dwelling units. It is under the minimum requirement per acre. The buildings are two story with twenty units per buildings. Each building contains fourteen two bedroom and six one bedroom units. The distance between the buildings at the nearest point is approximately sixty feet and at the widest is one hundred eight feet. The views of the majority of the people living in these units would be primarily landscapped areas. The land drops seventeen to eighteen feet to the east and the storm water detention is being provided on the east end of the property. An emergency exit is being provided by going onto Page Road. I am showing two hundred seventy parking spaces for the units. It is more than two per unit. There would be two accesses for the multiple and one for the single family coming from the east. The build- ings are cedar sided with twenty-five feet by sixty foot balconies with one major entrance and an auxiliary entrance in the rear. It will look very much like Oak Creek. Regarding staff comments on single family, I would suggest someone from staff, someone from the Northgate Civic Association and myself sit down and see what alternatives would be viable. Mr. Adams - I am with the Northgate Civic Association. We have met with Mr. Haller for two years. I think we have talked about many possibilities. Atter all that has been said and done this plan makes a lot of sense. It gives us single family backing up to our homes. It gives Mr. Haller two story condominiums and office area. Commissioner Glover - Regarding the northern portion of the office use, I really don't see anything wrong on that other than the set back which staff has pointed out. The condominium parking lot is a sixty-two foot wide by eight hundred foot long strip. There is a five foot wide buffer between it and the adjacent property. It would be very difficult to maintain that buffer. Mr. Hailer - Perhaps smaller shrubs similar to the bank in Palatine at Plum Grove Road and Northwest Highway Road. In terms of what we are abutting, it is really the rear end of all these projects. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 - 4 - Commissioner Glover - The point I am making about the whole layout is that we have strips of land. I just find the various strip land uses undesirable. Commissioner Davis - I do not understand your concern. It is behind a bank, a bank lot, a church, a parking lot and a commercial building to be built in the future. I think the concern can't be that great. We are dealing with a piece of property that is difficult to plan for and to build on. I do not think that concern should be there for that piece of property. Commissioner Glover - Our comprehensive plan depicts this entire piece of land as single family. I do not see where this plan is a better land use than what is depicted in our comprehensive plan. Commissioner Goldspiel then asked Mr. Haller if the cedar siding was allowed according to the Village ordinances. Mr. HA1ier - What you have is a cedar mansard effect that is built out away from the building. It does not carry over. The roof is not a cedar roof. Commissioner Goldspiel - Has the county given up the idea of building Three States Boulevard? I know that while the right-of-way has been purchased for the storm water area it still goes out to where the single family units are . If it is going to go on we have to worry about twenty-seven foot width as we approach Golf View Terrace. Mr. Truesdell - My understanding is that that road is not going anywhere. The county does not have plans now to do anything with that right-of-way. Commissioner Goldspiel - I would appreciate some research as to where that right-of-way ends up. What the plans are for it and the twenty-seven foot width. I wonder about the visitor parking. I wonder if it is really nec- essary to pull them off the street like that. Mr. Haller - The reason was to provide an island that could be landscapped. Commissioner Goldspiel - The thing that strikes me as being undesirable about this is the office area. Mr. Haller - The overall design concept was to make the office area look as much as possible like the condominium building with cedar mansard entry ways to give it a unified look and at the same time keep this as two story build- ings so that we have less impact in this area. Commissioner Goldspiel - Is that a lot of small offices? I am wondering about all that parking space. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 _ 5 - Mr. Truesdell - The ordinance requires one space for two hundred fifty feet of office space. Commissioner Goldspiel - The whole plat is either buildings or parking lot. Why do you feel it is important to keep the buildings to two stories rather than three? n Mr. Haller - Because of the visual effect. We are trying to make these office buildings look as much like the two story condominiums. Commissioner Davis - What is the phasing going to be on this? wearegoingto start with one commercial building Mr. Haller Initially outbui i g and two condominiums. Commissioner Goldspiel - The property to the east of Three States Boulevard is a large open, undeveloped area. Do you have plans to dedicate that to the Village? Mr. Haller - All that area remains county property. Once it is annexed it ultimately falls into that area. That strip is county storm water detention for the adjacent road and the water would all flow to the east. Commissioner Goldspiel - You are going to have your detention of eight hundred feet in three areas. Why not pull it together? Mr. Haller -I have to meet the EPA and Village requirements. This type of design does that. Commissioner Goldspiel - Are you going to make any donations to the Village of Arlington Heights to build up Frenchman's Cove Park? Mr. Haller - There will be a cash donation to Buffalo Grove. Commissioner Glover - I am still not clear about the land along Dundee Road and Three States Boulevard. It is a huge area for the detention of storm water for that street. Mr. Haller - I feel that part of the annexation agreement will dictate that this area be maintained by us unless Buffalo Grove wants to take on the expense of doing it. The Commission was polled to see if they agreed that the single family homes were desirable. Buffalo Grove Plan Cr,rmnission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 - 6 - AYES: Commissioner Goldspiel, Davis NAYES: Commissioner Shifrin, Glover, Reid ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Commissioners Sheldon, Button, Kaszubowski The vote was 2 3 -yes no. The Commission was polled as to whether the single family homes were objection- able. AYES: Commissioners Reid, Shifrin NAYES: Commissioners Goldspiel, Davis, Shields ABSTAIN: Commissioner Glover ABSENT: Commissioners Sheldon, Button, Kaszubowski The vote was 3 no - 2 yes. Commissioner Davis - Mr. Hailer, based on the phasing, Mr. Shifrin feels that the single family homes will never be built. At that point is there more space if the single family homes were knocked out to put in town homes? Commissioner Reid - Are your single family homes going to look like the rest of the project? Mr. Haller - Yes. Commissioner Goldspiel - Is anyone interested in making a cul-de-sac effect? Do we want him to go forward and break up the parking and make a cul-de-sac effect? Mr. Truesdell - Single family homes are not objectionable but you would like to see if there is any other feasible alternative? Commissioner Goldspiel - We would like the possibility of park, recreation donations going to the land immediately adjacent and Arlington Heights donat- ing that land to the Buffalo Grove Park District explored. Mr. Truesdell - Would the Plan Commission allow the cul-de-sacs to be smaller? Commissioner Goldspiel - Why don't we advise the police and fire departments to comment on that? We would like a topographical drawing and the area on the opposite side of Golf View looked into. Find out what is going to happen to the area by Three States Boulevard and what the width of Three States Boulevard is. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 - 7 - Mr. Truesdell - B3 zoning requires fifty feet but it can be varied to fourty feet. Mr. Wrier would like to have twenty-five feet yam his office buildings since the area abutting the property, although zoned residential, is really a church park- ing lot. One of the suggestions that we talked about is that it be zoned Bl which does not require that large set back. He would get his twenty-five feet and it would oe restricted to office use. This is the only way, without amending the ordinance, we can get around this. Commissioner Goldspiel - The Plan Commission suggests reducing the number of commercial buildings from three to two and increasing the stories from two to three and allowing the buildings more vista and green spaces along Dundee Road to the west. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN Mr. Truesdell - The process got started about a year ago. We began working on the entire plan and looked at several things. We looked at the environ- mental constraints, natural resources, flood plans, vegetation and soils. We then went out and surveyed what is on the ground now. Next we inventoried existing land uses. We covered the entire Village planning area. At that time it did not include the Fiore Property. In the final documentation of the plan we will have to consider it. We have added it on here. The Santucci property was considered. The next thing we did was look at the comprehensive plans of the surrounding villages to try to make our planning compatible with theirs. Then we looked at the school district boundries both proposed and existing. Then we looked to see what park areas are existing and are in the works for the Village to see what open space we had. We then mapped out the major roads in the Village. We looked at sewer and water for the Village. We compiled all the data that we had gathered and the first step was to take the existing plan and change the areas that had developed differently We also incorporated the greater neighborhood study that had been done. Last we added on the Fiore project. The result was alternate plan one. The next step was to look at this plan and determine where the conflict areas were. We zeroed in on these areas. The alternative plan two was the result. I will leave both of these plans in the Chamber Room for your review at any time. Mr. Truesdell briefly discussed the changes between alternative plans one and two. He further stated that these two plans were put together as a start- ing point for discussion. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 - 8 - Commissioner Goldspiel - My biggest disagreement is the industrial area on Dundee Road and the area west of Arlington Heights Road and south of Beechwood Drive. It seems to me that PUD 6 is too small to introduce another element in there. Between Strathmore Court and the other piece to the north I think that should stay single family. The industrial area north of Dundee Road is the most viable in the Village because it joins a successful Arlington Heights development and is near a Route 53 interchange. Mr. Truesdell - I would estimate that this area is roughly twenty acres. Commissioner Goldspiel - My feeling is that if you are going to make an error on a master plan make your error on the cheaper side of the zoning. You can always down zone easier than you can up zone. I wonder also about the big park in the center, in terms of viability and are we going to buy it? Re- garding the Prarie Road power line piece, I am concerned how it would fit the transportation network. I think with that we begin to worry about a transportation study. I like alternative plan one better than alternative plan two. I am concerned about the Village getting out of balance on the multi- family side. I think we need to keep the single family character. Commissioner Davis - Are we recommending as a Commission that we put the Fiore property into the master plan? Commissioner Reid - Absolutely. Commissioner Davis - This year, as I understand it, Twin Grove school has seven closed classrooms which indicates a dropoff due to the new school. The new school has a number of closed classrooms. Willow Grove's classrooms are not the population they felt they were going to be. Is that going to be enough to support that fact or are we going to be putting a burden of students in there and not be able to cover them. Mr. Truesdell - I think even with these students shown here I would guess that is on the high side. Even with that number, with the industrial chunk in there, that does show a positive impact. Commissioner Goldspiel - Regarding District 21 and 214, what we need to do is to figure some way to get more children into those districts. Commissioner Davis - I think we need to combine school districts to the north. Commissioner Reid - With regard to fiscal impact, did you use the same basis as Harland Bartholomew did? Mr. Truesdell - We used the same methodology as recommended by the staff. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 - 9 - Commissioner Reid - Regarding the school population figures, the numbers under that fiscal impact, did you use the same numbers as Harland Bartholomew? Mr. Truesdell - We used the methodology as agreed on by the staff. Commissioner Reid - The school population generation figures, how did you determine them? Mr. Truesdell - From the Illinois School Consulting Service using their latest chart. That is why I am saying the student population figure is probably going to be high rather than low. Commissioner Goldspiel - We show a lot of land there, I wonder if we should include, for example, the Johnson piece. To the extent that we are showing that in our figures and our plan, we might be just unrealistic and throwing off our figures. I wonder if we should take that out and a few other pieces that are going the other way? Three breakdown of fiscal impact analysis should be provided, 1) with existing community land use within the Village, 2) one for vacant unincorporated land outside the Village, 3) including already developed un- incorporated land outside the Village. Mr. Truesdell - I did leave it in although it is a clear possibility that it could be going to go to Wheeling. It is the Board's official position. Commissioner Davis to Commissioner Goldspiel - As you look at that plan, are you looking at it as a plan with no parks, no library, no post office and no transportation? Is that what we are coming to? Are we in a situation that we are going to have a network of roads that are going to be built to cover the Village but no public transportation to get the people to the office and industrial areas? No way of getting to the commercial property from your home unless you drive a car? Do you think we can get the public transportation to cover that area? Commissioner Goldspiel - You might have some public transportation on the Soo Line and along Milwaukee Avenue from Vernon Hills to Golf Mill. There is service from Hawthorne Center to Vernon Hills. Mr. Truesdell - For the next meeting I will have the three stages of fiscal impact analysis and a map depicting areas we propose to change. ADJOURNMENT Commissioner Davis moved to adjourn the meeting. Commissioner Shifrin seconded the motion. Chairman Shields adjourned the meeting at 11:40 P.M. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 17, 1980 1 - 10 - Respectfully submitted, V�Ka een zCiid ,z),J Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: (Acting Chairman) Pa l elds irman