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1980-01-16 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION Happ Farm Fiore/Hilltown JANUARY 16, 1980 L.../ Chairman Shields called the meeting to order at 7:50 P.M. in the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields Mr. Goldspiel Mrs. Sheldon Mr. Button Mrs. Reid Mr. Shifrin - arrived at 8:40 P.M. Mr. Glover Commissioners Absent: Mr. Davis Also Present: Mr. Jim Mikes, Attorney, Happ Farm Mr. John Mastandrea, Developer, Happ Farm Mr. Rick Burton, Happ Farm Mr. Joe McBride, Engineer, Happ Farm Ms. Susan Bartels, Engineer, Happ Farm Mrs. Verna Clayton, Village President Mr. Elliott Hartstein, Village Trustee Mr. Bill Balling, Village Manager Mr. Bill Sommer, Assistant Village Manager Mr. Greg Boysen, Public Works Director Mr. Dick Kuenkler, Village Engineer Mr. Jim Truesdell, Village Planner Mr. Stan Crosland, Director, Park District Mr. Bill Kiddie, Park District Mr. Jim Burowski, Park District Mr. Bill O'Reilly, Park District Mrs. Prudy Knaack, Park District TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION Commissioner Goldspiel reported he has received the final Ridership Report for Route 690. It is146,254 which is 30 - 14 ahead of last year. Li Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 2 - HAPP FARM Commissioner Goldspiel had a question on point one of the proposed recommenda- tion referring to streets and cul-de-sacs being dedicated to the Village. The map I have, lists them as being dedicated. Mr. Sommer explained that yes, but they are not conforming to Village standards. Li Commissioner Goldspiel said that he was disappointed with this proposal and did not want to discuss it any further. Mr. Sommer could understand his concern. There are a lot of points related to engineering information that the developer will be required to give on his preliminary plat before it is reviewed by the Village Board. Commissioner Goldspiel felt there were more problems with this than what appears on this draft recommendation. The Park District is lacking acreage, etc. I am still unhappy that about an acre of park land has disappeared between the time it was originally submitted and now. This is a very major area of the Village and I cannot see scrimping on streets and sidewalks and .I think many members of the Commission would like to have more green area. The whole thing does not seem to be the quality that matches our Ordinance and Master Plan. The density is off and the open space is inadequate. Commissioner Sheldon did not think the,project was ready to leave the Plan Commission. There are too many things still open to discussion I feel there are still many problems. I agree with Steve and the point he has made. I am concerned with the streets, etc. My main concern is that we seem to be Just meeting the ordinances and this is on Dundee Road where it reflects the Village. Commissioner Glover agreed with Commissioner Goldspiel. It seems that every meeting we have we are looking at a different park plan. I also feel the future access to the southwest portion of the property, not proposed for development, should be looked at at this time. I don't see how we can resolve it until the park is resolved. Mr. Sommer stated the park site has not changed in six months. What has changed is that they did not want to take the specific detention site. Dick has worked with the developer to let the developer use some Village property to extend the drainage. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the change he saw was the disappearance of an acre of land. Mr. Mastandrea stated that was because you did not want cul-de-sacs. Commissioner Sheldon wanted to see some plans to resolve the park problems. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 3 - Chairman Shields determined the Commission agrees with items 2, 4, 5, and 6. Mr. McBride stated that they have deleted the pond at the north end and carried the berm out into the White Pine ditch area to improve the slopes and since we will be raising the ground higher than what it would have been, we need additional storage. It allows me to split the two flows and that allows me to continue the bike path, swing it north across the realigned ditch. The south pipe carried along the east side will enter the stream alignment approximately 150 feet north of the property. It will carry the discharge north of the site, I am allowed to use that part of the ditch and continue to have a good underground system in the park area. This will allow a much quicker use of the park area after a rain storm. I have a personal preference for the other plan but they are both workable. Commissioner Goldspiel asked why the concrete drainage path across the north portion of the detention park site was necessary. Mr. McBride responded that it will be a 24" storm sewer that will become active very early in a storm. By allowing a 24" pipe to discharge in this area, it is almost impossible to maintain that area. That is why we are paving it. The detention area will have a 5-1 slope. This is a slope like what you have in front of the park building. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that in trying to picture the plan area, I was worried about the concrete. Mr. McBride said that this will be the wetter of the area and as you get further south there is almost 300 feet of active play area. Mr. Kiddie wanted to know if it would be possible to take the pipe and attach it to the one that is to the north instead of discharging it on to the concrete, Mr. McBride replied that no, with the storm water detention requirements that water must be discharged to the pond area. Commissioner Sheldon asked the Park Commissioner to give a summary of the con- clusions reached at the Park District meeting. Mr. O'Reilly responded that the concensus (3-2) was that the conceptual approach of the bike path area is leading in the right direction. Regarding the basin, it was 3-2 against. It appears only 60 feet in width is flat. As far as active or formal area is concerned, I don't think it would be useful for too much. We were looking for a viable grassy area and for possible ice skating in the winter. To make it viable in the summer time would also make it not viable in the winter for ice skating. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 4+ - As far as the ordinance for park donation land, there should be 5. 19 or 5.2 acres of active use. We are trying to determine what is active and what is not. At this point we are looking at 2 acres or less. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he felt another issue is the concept of cash in lieu of park land donation. It has been our practice to use that only when absolutely necessary. It seems to me that if we are short, we need to consider whether we are willing to recommend whether a cash donation be accepted in lieu of this property. I don't feel this is a case where cash is appropriate. Commissioner Glover wanted to know why they were terminating the pipe and not continuing it. Mr. McBride responded that he would prefer using the natural channel where available. I will be using the channel at about half what it now carries. When you are discharging water into a park area, what works well is a concrete swale. Commissioner Glover stated a major concern is flooding and we have to get this water into that ditch somewhere and if it is closed, is that possible? Mr. Boysen stated yes, it would be the same depth of the low flow channel. Commissioner Button asked if you put the pipe level with the bottom of the ditch and leave a swale on top this would work? Mr. Boysen answered yes. Mr. McBride said that he understood there will be a storm sewer to the east that people can hook up to. A resident replied that about a week and a half ago they noticed boring equipment and they went across that area and they never took a boring in that spot. Mr. Mastandrea said they previously took borings in that area. Commissioner Button asked Mr. O'Reilly if he understood correctly that the Park District was not willing to accept the basin area as park land with or without the pond. Mr. O'Reilly said if it were a pond, it definitely would not be accepted. Commissioner Button asked Mr. Mastandrea in the event that half of that parcel ended up not to be acceptable would you entertain looking at additional land. Mr. Mastandrea replied he would like to see a nice piece of ground used as park. He has incorporated the additional White Pine area of seven acres for a total of eleven acres plus a cash contribution. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 i . - 5 - `f You have agreed to this. All of the changes made have been changes made on your recommendations. But everytime I make a change you make more changes. Commissioner Glover stated that if they want land instead of cash and even if it was all acceptable, we are still an acre short. The Park District still is not sure this land is big enough for an active use. Commissioner Shields felt that was the Park District's business. Commissioner Goldspiel made a motion that the Preliminary Plan contain at least five acres of useable park land rather than cash donation. Commissioner Sheldon seconded. Commissioner Sheldon wanted to know what other recreational facilities are going to be in here other than park? Mr. Mastandrea stated they have agreed to eight foot sidewalk on Weidner Road and along Dundee Road. It was agreed this was the Park District's business. The motion was voted on and defeated 4-2. Commissioner Sheldon asked if the Park District were to receive money, would that money go into this park? Mr. O'Reilly stated the Park District does not want to get involved with developing developments, but Paragraph I of the Donation Ordinance specifies that the donation shall be planned as park first. Many times the developer plans water management and then says - Can we turn this into a park? Commissioner Button moved to reconsider the previous vote. Mr. Sommer stated that if we are going to reduce the density, we are also going to reduce the park requirement. Commissioner Button withdrew the motion. My original complaint was it was too dense. Commissioner Sheldon asked if the Park District would want to consider any other forms of recreation? Mr. Kiddle stated that they have an excellent example in Bicentennial Park. I would not went to have anything short of that. That is why there is this split. It took 2-1/2 years before we could determine what to put on the site. We don't even have the soil boring information this time. We have to have more material to work with. We still don't know if it will work. If it doesn't work, we will have to be responsible for it. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 6 - Commissioner Shifrin asked if we accept the park donation how will we be sure he will do everything possible to make it useable. Can we get some idea from the Park District what they will do with the property or if they accept cash only and what is the developer going to do? Mr. O'Reilly stated that approximately 55% of the basin area is 5-1 slope which leaves approximately 40% of it for active use. Commissioner Shifrin asked the developer if the Park District were to set up the criteria that would make this park acceptable, would you be willing to go along with it? Mr. Mastandrea said yes, I am. I am willing to bond myself to do that also. Prudy Knaak stated that we want quality land that is useable. I have objected to this because it is primarily detention and secondly a park. I would want flat land that is easy to maintain. Mr. Hartstein stated that what he hears from the Park District is they want useable park land. I would hope that could be accomplished. The motion voted down was requiring more land and here is an area of the Village that is land poor. I would think there would be a concern for this area and would urge the Plan Commis- sion to reconsider. Commissioner Glover stated the quality of land is more important than quantity. I think we need to direct the developer to go back and redesign his plan. Mr. Sommer responded that you say you want more park land. He has 5. 19 acres with 1.4+ for water management. That leaves us with 3.79 acres. One more acre should satisfy the requirement. You will need 2.39 acres if you want the entire 5.19 Commissioner Glover made a motion to table this and direct the developer to go back and develop suitable park land donation that would be acceptable to the Park District. Commissioner Goldspiel seconded the motion. Commissioner Shifrin made an amendment that rather than acceptable to the Park District, say, in agreement with the Ordinance and standards. Commissioners Glover and Goldspiel agreed. Mr. Mastandrea stated that if you want more land then that would eliminate any- thing I would put in the White Pine area. This was agreed to. The motion carried unanimously 6 - 0. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 7 - Chairman Shields called a reoess at 9:40. The meeting reconvened at 10:00 with the additional following people attending. Mr. Dave Gewalt, Harland-Bartholomew Mr. Tom Dyke, Harland-Bartholomew Mr. Bob Hamilton, Harland-Bartholomew Mr. Robert Friedman, Fiore/Hilltown Mr. Don Asher, Fiore/Hilltown Mr. John Kinley, Land Planner, Fiore/Hilltown Mr. Jim Mikes, Attorney, Fiore/Hilltown Mr. Hamilton explained how the traffic study was done. The first exhibit showed P.M. peak hour which is traditionally the highest of the day. This showed 30% of the trips are along Route 22 to the east for a total of 465, with 255 going west. The impact at Schelter Road won't be significant because it is in final design for 4 lanes. He stated his biggest concern was Buffalo Grove Road and Route 22. The project will generate 1200 southbound on Buffalo Grove Road and 1000 north- bound. When you get closer to the present village limits, it will be 880 south- bound and 740 northbound. Mr. J ►ilton stated that some changes can be made without affecting these fig- ures very much, but if the light industrial were to become office, that would generate 4 times as much traffic. He said he assumed that 5% of the residents would work on site, but this could be much higher. Regarding Buffalo Grove Road extension, Mr. Hamilton said he preferred the align- ment along the Pegelow property. If the county is willing to take this road, then they could use their powers of condemnation to acquire the alignment, but before we accept this alignment, you should make sure you get a road through to Route 60. If it ends at Port Clinton Road, it will not do much good. He added that if it were to run through the industrial area, you might end up with multiple driveways coming out onto Buffalo Grove Road; whereas if it were along the edge, you could use a collector. He felt there should be four lanes of traffic through out the development. There was some discussion about whether the developer should contribute to the improvement of Route 22. Mr. Hamilton said there is no precedent for this. �•/ Mr. Hamilton said he would recommend closing Port Clinton Road and let Long Grove do whatever they want with their part of it. The remainder of Port Clinton Road should be upgraded to Village standards. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 8 - He said they anticipated the developer accepting the cost of Buffalo Grove Road north of Aptakisic to Route 45. He recommended the Village set up a recapture with him. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if consideration was given to public and rail trans- portation on the Soo Line. Mr. Hamilton said there is no place for a station. He added that the only signal arm crossing would be at Route 22, and he would recommend signal arms at Buffalo Grove Road also. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if there studies indicate where a station should be. Mr. Hamilton said that is the land planner's field, but he would not want to see one on Route 22. He said bus service should be done once the final road lay- out is done. Commissioner Button asked if any consideration had been given to road improve- ments for the total area beyond that property. Mr. Hamilton said they did not becuase they were looking at developer-paid improvements. In response to further questions about road improvements, Mr. Hamilton said we should concentrate the funds from this project where it will do the most good, which is Buffalo Grove Road. Mr. Dave Gewalt presented the waste water situation. He said the numbers have changed but the final result has not changed significantly. He said his conclu- sion is that there is available capacity for this development and those known developments. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if this would necessitate further expansion of the treatment plant. Mr. Gewalt said he did not think a firm conclusion can be made because the ques- tion of the North Shore Contribution is up in the air, and if you remove that consideration, he did not think there would be a level of capacity that would t warrant expansion. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the pipes have enough capacity or are we going to have to build some more pipes somewhere. Mr. Gewalt said there is an addi- L/ tional capacity of 10,000 people. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if we should increase the interceptor line. Mr. Gewalt said it does not appear anyone should be concerned about it. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 9 Mr. Gewalt presented his findings on the on-site sanitary sewers. He mentioned that each one has to cross at least one stream. He added that consideration was given to the population generated by the Pegelow property. He said he felt one lift station would be required. Gravity service seems to be available to all parcels. He said sizing would be the important factor and not the precise location of the line. Mr. Gewalt summarized his findings and said his recommendations are there is available treatment capacity and interceptor capacity and he sees no reason to discourage the plan as submitted for these reasons. Mr. Gewalt presented his findings on the water service requirements. He recom- mended the Village rely on the deep well water until the Lake Michigan allocation because there are problems with the shallow aquifier. Since the total water supply of the Village would be exceeded, he had to estimate the demands the Village would have with and without this development. He said he took the maximum daily demand and got peak flow factor of 2.2. There is the possibility the firm pumping capacity cannot be met. Mr. Gewalt stated the storage has not changed in quantity from last time but more thoroughly reflects what is on-going in the Village. Besides storage, you should have an emergency reserve. The developer's contribution toward the well supply should be an equivalent con- tribution of 2.2 million gallons and a storage of 1 million gallons. A second well may not be needed if the peak demands do not reach this level. If the shallow aquifer is chosen, the development should provide some means that, if the well does not work adequately over a 5-year period, or it does not provide the capacity or quality is such that it would need treatment, that would be their obligation. Commissioner Glover wanted to know what the situation would be if you take the worst condition or Lake Michigan water does not arrive. Mr. Gewalt said it is hard to assess. The most reliable studies estimate that at the present rate, the deep aquifer capacity is such it could provide water through the year 2,000. Commissioner Glover asked if we would have to change the well depth. Mr. Gewalt said that every year you continue to mine the aquifer, you risk having to lower the pump settings. Commissioner Glover asked how low you can go before you need a new sleeve. Mr. Gewalt said he was not sure. Commissioner Goldspiel asked what happens in the 2,010? Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 10 - Mr. Gewalt said the pumps have to work harder and water quality deterioration will result. He said he is not in a position to say all the wells go off and no one has water. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that Mr. Gewalt had taken into consideration that one well could go out, but we have had more than one out of service at one time. Mr. Gewalt said he did not think it would be a reasonable engineering concern. There are other available options at that time such as sprinkling bans, etc. It was determined that the staff agrees with Point Number 1. Mr. Balling said it is conceivable that Lake Michigan water will be available to Buffalo Grove by 1985. Mr. Boysen said if we do not expand, we will still experience draw-down. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the way he sees this is if this development is built, we will get Lake Michigan water and still have to keep pumping at the rate we are now. Commissioner Glover asked how likely is it that our allocation would be increased if we go ahead with this project? Mr. Boysen stated that the Keefer Company has accepted the population projections so it looks like it is going to serve as the basis for the allocation. Commissioner Glover asked what increase we could expect. Mr. Boysen said he did not have the figures with him. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that it is expensive to build a deep well and by opening this development now instead of when we have the Lake Michigan water, are we raising the cost to the existing residents? Mr. Boysen said no; we are still paying off well number 6 and are accumulating reserves and could possibly lower the rates. Mr. Balling added that we are in a position to have a capital reserve or issue a rebate. He said it will probably cost more to the people requesting to hook up to the system, but we don't contem- plate water rates would pay for system expansion. The exception would be if the system improvement fees would not come in at approved rates. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if someone could stop us from drilling these wells. Mr. Balling said no. Regarding flood management and detention, Mr. Gewalt said they are effectively utilizing on-stream detention. These plans meet the criteria established by IDOT and are designed according to the MSD and Village requirements. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980 - 11 - Mr. Dyke said the fiscal impact is a positive result. There is essentially 350,000,000 market value. There is commercial, office and industrial land use that will improve the tax base of the Village. In summary, there is capacity in TAke County to handle this project. One matter the planners are looking into is park space. The density might have to be re- duced to provide the park land. We feel it looks good for the Village. There are certain things the developer needs to do so it does not become a burden on you. Chairman Shields asked Mr. Dyke how he arrived at these figures. Mr. Dyke said he believes that is the formula for Lake County. Chairman Shields stated that this is a conservative way to do it but it is not legal and you come up with a higher value. Mr. Dyke stated they are coming to the conclusion of their work on the analysis. He said they feel the Fire Department essentially only serves the industrial and they recommend the lines be changed. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if they had an opinion as to how likely it will be built like this or whether market forces will change it. Mr. Dyke said the land use recommendations regarding residential would appear to be essentially sound and you could expect the housing would be built over a period of time. It is our experience that the market keeps chAnging and a developer will come back and want to change the home style or such. Generally speaking, there was not enough retail/commercial land. It would increase the tax base. This would revolve around the corner of Buffalo Grove Road and Route 22. With respect to office and industrial, I think you should give some more thought to deciding how much office and how much industrial you want. The developer is going to have to have a market strategy on how to move that land. I don't question that it won't ever happen, but feel it needs to be addressed more. We think it is wise to give more attention to the market analysis of that type of land. Commissioner Sheldon made a motion the meeting be adjourned. Commissioner Shifrin seconded the motion, which carried nntnimously. The meeting was adjourned at 12:15 A.M. Respectfully submitted, Astrid Hasley Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: Yatric1 Shields, Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting January 16, 1980