1980-05-21 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Wynnedale
May 21, 1980
Chairman Shields called the meeting to order in the Municipal Building,
50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove at 7:45 P.M.
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Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields
Mr. Goldspiel - arrived at 8:05 P.M.
Mrs. Sheldon
Mr. Button
Mr. Davis
Mrs. Reid
Mr. Shifrin - arrived at 7:47 P.M.
Mr. Glover
Mrs. Kaszubowski
Commissioners Absent: None
Also Present: Mr. L. Shassian, Developer, Wynnedale
Mr. L. Freedman, Attorney, Wynnedale
Mr. E. Baumgart, Planner, Wynnedale
Mr. J. Pezl, Engineer, Wynnedale
Mr, P. Morressey, Village Resident
Mr. T. Walsh, Village Resident
Mr. and Mrs. Homa, Village Residents
Mr. and Mrs. R. Thompson, Village Residents
Mrs. S. Murphy, Village Resident
Mr. J. Marienthal, Village Trustee
Mr. O'Reilly, Park District
Mr. W. Sommer, Assistant Village Manager
Mr. W. Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. G. Boysen, Public Works Director
Mr. D. Kuenkler, Village Engineer
Mr. Freedman - We are here tonight to discuss the property known as Wynnedale
zoned R9 Special Use Building unit development located at Checker and Arlington
Heights Roads. It is 39. 8 acres. This particular plan has been before this
Commission at least a couple of sessions before tonight. We propose to donate
the area North and to a small extent south of the creek for park area with
the exception of two buildings. These buildings will be eight plesus with 48
units and four stories. There will be parking on grade. This plan is a result
of a number of compromises and sessions with the staff. It is a PUD multiple-
family concept plan.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
May 21, 1980
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The two buildings north of the creek are there because of economics. We
have to realize a certain yield from the property. We require the additional
sixteen units to come out on the price.
During our workshop sessions there were a number of differences of opinion
between the developer and staff regarding engineering. We are not trying
to put you in a position of making a recommendation which requires the expertise
of an engineer. The real problem, as we see it, is to provide engineering data,
for which we are going to incur a great deal of expense - approximately $45,000.
Before we do that we want to find out if this plan will be approved. We are
presenting this plan as a concept plan. We would like you to approve this
concept, subject to our meeting all other engineering and staff requirements.
If this concept is approved, my client will pay the additional cost to create
further detail in the plan and submit it to staff. Then it will come back
before this Commission again for a final approval.
Commissioner Button - We are being asked to depart from our normal procedure.
Should we poll to see if we are to go ahead?
Commissioner Davis - We have a concept plan that has already been approved. Why
approve this plan?
Mr. Sommer - There are three stages in the Village process:
1) Concept Plan - presented in the workshop session
2) Preliminary Plan
3) Preliminary Plat
They are exercising the option to get recommendation on a preliminary plan
before they do a preliminary engineering study. This is an acceptable practice.
Chairman Shields - I would like to have you explain the difference between
your present plan and what was shown to us before.
Mr. Freedman - You approved a plan for single family homes. That plan never
got before the Village Board.
Mr. Baumgart - The basic building type for Phase 1 and Phases 2A and B is
that of a two story manor home with eight dwelling units for a total of eight
attached garages. There will be another eight parking spaces on the street.
The buildings will be in a tudor and colonial style. The two buildings on the
far east and backing up to the golf course will be developed similar to
Cambridge on the Lake.
Mr. Goldspiel arrived at 8:05 P.M.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
May 21, 1980
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Mr. Freedman in answer to a question from Commissioner Button, responded that
in order to obtain the dedication of the land north of the creek this plan
was developed to meet most of the demands of this Commission. If this plan
is accepted we will go back and put in the additional money for the engineering.
In response to aquestion from Commissioner Button, Mr. Pezl stated that theyp
sub-
mitted a preliminary plan dated April 22, 1980 for the preliminary engineering
to the Lake County Soil and Water Commission. Their response was a one page
addendum to that report dated May 13, 1980, which you have before you. It
describes in detail the suitability of the soils, natural amenities, etc. , of
the creek and of the site plus their concern and recommendation that they will
not approve any construction within the flood plain. In doing some research on
this we have found some discrepancies. We will build on part of this flood
plain but we will maintain the same flood plan storage area by excavation
and compensation in accordance with your Village ordinances.
Commissioner Button - You believe adequate compensatory storage can be main-
tained on this site?
Mr. Boysen - Yes.
Commissioner Glover - I have a concern that this compensatory storage and the
engineering plans be resolved between the developer and staff.
Mr. Freedman - There are some engineering problems. They can be taken care of
properly. We will not build if we cannot solve these problems.
Commissioner Goldspiel - Has the staff had the opportunity to review the pre-
liminary plan for compliance of the ordinances for buildings, lights, streets,
etc. ?
Mr. Sommer - Yes, there are no variances of the plan.
Mr. Glover - The two eyebrows in front of the parking spaces on Phase 2C,
would you explain those?
Mr. Baumgart - Those are access drives for guests and they will have canopies
over them.
Commissioner Goldspiel - I have real reservations in the way those are laid out.
It seems there is a problem with safety and snow removal. It also appears that
you have two way traffic in and out of there.
Mr. Baumgart - There will be a canopy over that area as far as snow removal
goes. It will be a drive for guests. We will make it one way traffic from
south to north in both cases.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
May 21, 1980
Mr. Shifrin - One of the big advantages to this property is the large amount
of park area. Has there been any study as to how much of this land is useable?
Mr. O'Reilly - I can only render a personal opinion. We do not anticipate
any activity on that land. It will be totally passive. We do not anticipate
any athletic activity. We are looking into Village garden plots. We are told
that the natural seeds for wild flowers are dormant and will grow again.
Commissioner Shifrin - The land will be used for more of a nature center and
picnic groves then?
Mr. O'Reilly - Yes, there should be a bike path there. You realize that there
are a number of acres here. You realize we are looking at totally passive land.
We still look for the 5. 5 acres of active land and if this is not available a
cash donation.
Commissioner Sheldon - The drive before Burnt Ember, do you see many cars park-
ing there?
Mr. Baumgart - Yes, ten to fifteen.
Commissioner Sheldon - That would be adequate for the models. Do you anticipate
parking for cars on Checker Drive?
Mr. Baumgart - At peak periods on weekends, if both buildings are built for
models, I could see some parking. However, we anticipate building only one
as a model.
Commissioner Sheldon - I am also concerned about access to Arlington Heights
Road off of Checker Road. Is there any plan for a traffic signal in that
location?
Mr. Kuenkler - I doubt that there will be one in that area.
Commissioner Sheldon - You feel with the density we do not need to control the
traffic? There is a problem getting out on to Checker now.
Mr. Boysen - It would be a site somewhat similar to Golf and Dundee as it
develops. We do not have anything planned to address that now.
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Commissioner Sheldon - Have the Fire and Police Departments looked at that
looped street? Do they have any problem with it?
Mr. Sommer - They no problem.
roblem.
Mr. Baumgart - We did provide access into the commercial development area.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
May 21, 1980
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Commissioner Sheldon - In Phase 1 the building to the west, what is the dis-
tance to the ditch?
Mr. Baumgart - About 25 feet.
Commissioner Sheldon - Does that meet our flood plan.
Mr. Boysen - We require 25 feet from the flood elevation and it does meet
our standard.
Commissioner Davis - On the driveway of the building facing Checker Road
the cars will be backing out once they are occupied.
Mr. Baumgart - No there is a frontage road.
Commissioner Davis - How did you go about donating the land for the garden
plots?
Mr. Freedman - A request was made of Mr. Shassian from the Village asking if
it could be used as garden plots.
Commissioner Davis - Your land is private property, could you please see that
the consumption of alcholic beverages is stopped.
Mr. Freedman - The Village has our permission to go in there and take care
of the situation.
Commissioner Davis - Since the land has been used for garden plots will the
developer reseed it for prarie grasses?
Mr. Freedman - I cannot control that. We did not make any changes in the land.
Commissioner Davis - You permitted the use of that land for something else.
Mr. O'Reilly - We have takenspecimens to see what is on the land.
Commissioner Davis - You are saying that if the land was plowed under prarie
grasses will grow again.
Mr. O'Reilly - We are studing that possibility.
Mrs. Sara Murphy - The Aspin Ditch does flood where it backs up to Arlington
Heights Road.
Mr. Baumgart - We only plotted the flood plain on our land.
Mrs. Murphy - I am also concerned that after the property is developed that
there will be a traffic signal at Checker and Arlington Heights Roads.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
May 21, 1980
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Chairman Shields - We recognize that it is a problem and if we can do some-
thing about it we will.
Mr. Pezl in response to a question from Commissioner Davis stated that the
statement that the Lake County Soil and Water Commission made in its report
does not take into consideration the engineering that will be made on the site.
Mr. Friedman - In order to get this plan approved we are going to have to get
the engineering plans approved by your engineer.
Mr. Pezl in response to a question from Commissioner Davis stated that the
basins will have underdrains.
Mr. Pat Morressey, 1 Knight Hill Court, stated his displeasure with the fact
that the property is now planned for multi-family units when the last plan
that he viewed was for single family homes.
Mr. Tom Walsh, 319 Checker Drive, stated that he wanted to know if this developer
has built in the Village before. If so, has the Village encountered any difficulty
with him.
Commissioner Goldspiel - Yes, this developer has built in the Village previously.
I do not think you should base your decision on a particular developer. Many
times a plot has been sold and built by a different party. You have to keep
personalities out of it.
Mr. Walsh - You are approving a plan which can be altered. Developers have
built in the Village and have not met codes before. The concern of the Commission
should not be just the developer but his past performance.
Mr. Sommer - This developer is no different than any other developer in town.
It is incumbent upon the Village to see to it that our codes are conformed to.
I am confident that our Building and Zoning Departments can do this.
Commissioner Sheldon - With the economy the way it is today, what protection
is there if a developer does not finish what he has started?
Mr. Sommer - That is not a problem with our performance bonding. We would take
the necessary steps to see that building is completed.
Mrs. Homa, 11 Knight Hill Court, stated her displeasure with the garden plots.
Commissioner Davis - The problem of the garden plots has been extreme particul-
arly for two of my neighbors on Knight Hill Court and two other neighbors that
are here tonight.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
May 21, 1980
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Mr. Sommer - I have faced critism on both sides of this issue. Previously
there was concern expressed about the weeds in that section. Now there is
concern expressed about the garden plots. If I plow up that land tomorrow
I will have 150 gardeners unhappy. The Park District is going to grow wild
flowers in that area. I must state that there was no other developer in the
Village willing to donate his land and get involved in a successful garden
plot program.
Chairman Shields - Next year, if you are not under construction, would you be
willing to have a garden plot program?
Mr. Shassian - Last year we were approached by the Village to participate in
this program. This year, again, we were approached. We want to cooperate
with the Village.
Commissioner Shifrin responding to Mrs. Homa, we are not elected officials of
the Village. It is a serious concern of the Commission but you will have to
talk to the Village Board about this problem.
Commissioner Button - I agree with Mr. Shifrin. The Village Board is the
only avenue open to you.
Mr. Marienthal - I am the originator of the garden plot program in the Village.
I really think that last year there were no complaints and that is why we put
the plots back again. This developer did a public service for the Village.
He is not to blame.
Mr. Ron Thompson, 319 Burnt Enber, - What is the next procedure with regard
to this plan?
Chairman Shields - It would be referred to the Village Board and they would
resolve the situation concerning the engineering.
Mrs. Thompson - Regarding the creek between Arbor Gate and Burnt Enber, is
there still going to be much drainage for the water to come down?
Mr. Pezl - Your property is located up stream and we are down stream. We
will not be distributing any more water into the creek after the development
is completed.
Mrs. Murphy - What is the population for this development.
Mr. Freedman - This property is zoned for 319 units and will be developed with
298 units.
Mr. Walsh - Are these condominiums?
Mr. Shassian - Yes.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
May 21, 1980
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Mr. Boma - I would like to know why this land is now multi-family instead of
single family? How will this development effect our water pressure?
Commissioner Button - That property is zoned R9 which is multi-family.
Originally the builder submitted a single family plan and did not follow
through with it. The water pressure will be improved because this builder
will install a 20" water main up to the loop near you.
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Mr. Qubeck - To the west of this development we have open space. You are now
placing multi-family dwellings there.
Commissioner Davis - Those two buildings face the golf course. They will
have a height of 45 feet.
Mr. Rayse, in answer to a question from Mr. Morressey, stated that this
property was zoned R9 when it was annexed on April 9, 1973. Annexed land does
not change zoning. The builder can build no more than 319 units on that
land. The Village cannot revoke that zoning.
Mr. Ken Belaw, Checker Drive, - There seems to be a conflict as to whether
we can build on this flood plain.
Mr. Freedman - Lake County Soil and Water District stated that there should
be no building on this flood plain. The only body that can make a decision
as what to build is the municipality in which it is developed.
Chairman Shields closed the Public Hearing at 9:40 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
thleen Comer
Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Patrick Shields
Chairman
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
May 21, 1980
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Wynnedale
Citrust/Hilltown Property
May 21, 1980
Chairman Shields called the Regular Meeting to order in the Municipal Building,
50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove at 9:50 P.M.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
Mrs. Sheldon
Mr. Button
Mr. Davis
Mrs. Reid
Mr. Shifrin
Mr. Glover
Mrs. Kaszubowski
Commissioners Absent: None
Also Present: Mr. L. Shassian, Developer, Wynnedale
Mr. L. Freedman, Attorney, Wynnedale
Mr. E. Baumgart, Planner, Wynnedale
Mr. J. Pezl, Engineer, Wynnedale
Mr. P. Morressey, Village Resident
Mr. T. Walsh, Village Resident
Mr. and Mrs. R. Thompson, Village Residents
Mrs. S. Murphy, Village Resident
Mr. J. Marienthal, Village Trustee
Mr. O'Reilly, Park District
Mr. W. Sommer, Assistant Village Manager
Mr. W. Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. G. Boysen, Public Works Director
Mr. D. Kuenkler, Village Engineer
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Shifrin moved that the minutes of the April 30, 1980 meeting be
approved. Commissioner Sheldon seconded the motion. The minutes were unanimous-
ly approved.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
Transportation Commission
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the Village has shown an interest in a
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
May 21, 1980
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comuter pick up along the Soo Line. Chicago Area Transportation Study
(CATS) has adopted that plan.
If the Chicago and NorthWestern Railroad should go on strike the end of this
week or the beginning of next week, Nortran has a contingency plan. There
will be information in the papers as to schedules and pick ups.
Commissioner Button - Regarding the cash flow problems with Chicago and
Nortran, are there any fare increases in the offing?
Commissioner Goldspiel - I do not know of any plan to change the fare structure.
There is a freeze on extended service. The NorthWestern is going to add another
car to each train making them nine car trains.
Commissioner Davis - I was at the meeting of the Village Board Monday night.
I was informed that Commissioner Goldspiel's term as Chairman of the Trans-
portation Commission has ended. I feel we should give Commissioner Goldspiel
a proclamation for his excellent work on the Transportation Commission. The
vote was unanimous.
WYNNEDALE
Commissioner Button moved that the Plan Commission recommend the Wynnedale
Preliminary Plan of April 1, 1980 as revised on April 17, 1980 be forwarded
to the Village Board for conceptual approval. Commissioner Glover seconded
the motion.
AYES: Commissioners Goldspiel, Button, Reid, Glover, Kaszubowski
NAYES: Commissioners Sheldon, Davis, Shifrin
The motion passed 5 - 3.
Commissioner Davis - The residents have asked why those buildings have to face
Checker Road.
Mr. Freedman - The position we have taken for these buildings is because of
the problems of the ordinance on set back and sufficient distance from the
creek.
Commissioner Goldspiel - I wonder whether it is appropriate to base our decision
on the preliminary plan without having the results of the Park District's in-
put on this matter.
Mr. Freedman - We indicated before, we are going to go before the Park Board
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
May 21, 1980
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presuming you approve this plan and the Village agrees. We want to be sure
that you want this plan before we spend the money to proceed.
Commissioner Goldspiel - The matter of the two eyebrows, is that something
that will be worked out with staff?
Mr. Freedman - We have indicated that we will try.
CITRUST/HILLTCWN
Mr. Sommer - Jim Truesdall had planned to be here tonight. The purpose of
his memo of May 16, 1980 was to give you some areas to review regarding the
Fiore plan. His memo has addressed five areas. Ingred Park's report tries
to address the concept of innovative housing. There are many different defini-
tions of this concept.
Commissioner Reid - Regarding the density transfer concept, I understood what the
developer presented. He can only borrow within the same PUDS. Could you elabor-
ate further on this subject.
Mr. Sommer - If you take it out of the PUDS, what are you going to put back
in ten years. We have no guarantee that that is going to work. I think it
is more of a gamble than the give and take he would have us believe. We are
confident that our zoning is going to work on this piece of property.
Commissioner Reid - Is this density transfer common on a large piece of land?
Mr. Sommer - It is if you do not have good zoning laws.
Commissioner Goldspiel moved the meeting be adjourned. Commissioner Glover
seconded the motion. Chairman Shields closed the meeting at 10:4+5 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Kathleen Comer
Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Patrick Shields
Chairman