2001-09-05 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: 0 A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 09/05/2001
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
September 5, 2001
Jacobs Homes, proposed Noah's Landing townhome development
North side of IL Route 22 and east side of Prairie Road, Rezoning
To the R-8 District and approval of a Preliminary Plan —
Workshop #2
Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in theVillage Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Trilling
Ms. Dunn
Mr. Feldgreber
Mr. Panitch
Mr. Smith
Ms. Bocek
Ms. Kenski-Sroka
Commissioners absent: None
Also present: Mr. Keith Jacobs, Jacobs Homes
Mr. John Green, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Richard Vane, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Joseph Jaeger
Mr. Jeff Braiman, Village Trustee
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
Mr. Greg Summers, Associate Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Feldgreber, seconded by Commissioner Dunn to approve the
minutes of the regular meeting of June 6, 2001. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion
and the motion passed unanimously.
Moved by Commissioner Dunn, seconded by Commissioner Smith to approve the minutes of the
public hearing of July 18, 2001. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion
passed unanimously.
Moved by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka, seconded by Commissioner Feldgreber to approve the
minutes of the regular meeting of July 18, 2001. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion
and the motion passed unanimously.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Feldgreber attended the Village Board meeting on August 20, 2001 and stated the
following topics were discussed:
1. Expansion to the public service facility across from the police department to increase the
size of the main building and upgrade the parking lot area. This item was referred to the Plan
Commission.
2. Avis Investments are interesting in building 120 condominiums across the street from St.
Mary's church, wrapping around to the Deerfield Bakery and butting up to the back of Town
Center. There were many concerns about the layout, size, density, and parking. The Board
wants to figure out a way to incorporate that piece into Town Center.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted he has been advised by several Trustees that when this project
comes to the Plan Commission, the Commission should look at the project in conjunction with
Town Center and make some recommendations to incorporate and coordinate the new
development with the Town Center.
Commissioner Dunn stated she attended the August 6, 2001 Village Board meeting wherein the
Belmont Village development needed a variation regarding the engineering plan for the
stormwater management facility. Mr. Pfeil recommended that the hearing be held at the Village
Board level rather than have it come back to the Plan Commission. After some discussion, the
Board decided to handle the variation request.
Mr. Pfeil noted the hearing will be held on September 10, 2001 and it is basically a request for a
4-foot high retaining wall on the edge of the stormwater facility rather than providing the
standard 4:1 side slope.
JACOBS HOMES, PROPOSED NOAH'S LANDING TOWNHOME DEVELOPMENT,
NORTH SIDE OF IL ROUTE 22 AND EAST SIDE OF PRAIRIE ROAD, REZONING TO
THE R-8 DISTRICT AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN—WORKSHOP#2
Mr. Green stated the site is 7.9 acres located on Half Day Road and Prairie Road east of the
Wisconsin Central railroad line. The site does not include a small portion of the corner at the
northeast intersection of Prairie and Half Day Road. The Wilson Enterprise building abuts the
site on the west. There is unincorporated Lake County single-family housing to the north and
the Powernail facility is immediately to the south of the site.
Mr. Green stated the plan has now been reduced from 65 units to 58 units and they are now at
7.3 units per acre. The land area is now listed at 7.9 acres where originally it was at 8.1 acres.
The reason is that as the annexation agreement that had been developed between the Village and
sellers came through, they discovered there had been included an agreement to provide an
additional 10 feet of right-of-way along Prairie Road, which has reduced the gross land area to
7.9 acres.
Mr. Green stated the tree survey has been concluded and they have found that while there are
some trees through the center of the site, they are almost all silver maples, black cherry, and
chokecherry, which are not considered to be desirable specimens. There is a small collection of
weeping willows along the north line. There is a collection of silver maples and black locust
along the north line adjacent to the single-family residences. Most of these are in poor condition
and are not of much value. There is also a continuous hedge along Route 22 and there is a hedge
along the north half of the Prairie Road frontage. They are dedicating 10 feet along both of those
roads. There is already an existing sidewalk along Route 22 and it is their suggestion that since
the Route 22 improvements are being contemplated at this time, the hedge be kept at this time
until those improvements are started. One of the advantages of the additional dedication along
Prairie is that the setbacks are now an additional 10 feet further away from the center of Prairie
Road.
Mr. Green stated they went through the Village Comprehensive Plan and has listed 23 townhome
and manor home developments. They used 22 of the developments to analyze density figures.
They found the overall Village average developments for townhomes and manor homes are 7.3
units per acre. With that information and comments from the Plan Commission and the
developer's needs, they have achieved the 7.3 units per acre target.
Mr. Green noted Mr. Pfeil's report indicated that higher density might be warranted on this site
because of proximity to mass transit and because it assembles parcels that would be difficult to
develop individually. They believe they are being consistent with the Village's intent when it
annexed this property.
Mr. Green stated they have inter-related the detention amenity with the gazebo and play area
amenity. He noted they have sized and planned the detention to incorporate the current
standards that would be applicable to this corner parcel under similar development. By locating
the detention area as proposed, there is a natural opportunity for that expansion to occur and
become part of this detention without impacting any of the development opportunities on the
corner piece.
Mr. Green stated they have now developed a double walk system along what is now continuous
roadwork and it has been extended to the north. As indicated, all of the road construction will be
done in complete accordance with the Village public road standards. That means it will be
27-foot wide road and will have the same curbing, drainage and paving thickness as if it were a
public road. The same thing would apply to the walks. They will be constructed as would be
required by the Village. This can now be either a privately maintained system or a public road
with a reduced right of way. This choice is up to the Commission and the Village.
Mr. Green stated they continued to work to integrate the corner parcel. That development can
continue to be built in, presuming a similar type of development in the future. At the same time,
they discussed with staff how they might collectively reinforce the direction of that area for
residential purposes. One of the suggestions is the concept of having a dual public hearing
where at that time the Village, as petitioner, would modify its existing Comprehensive Plan to
indicate the desired use for that site. That way any potential developer or development would
know what is the program for that site and that could happen simultaneously with the regular
public hearing process.
Mr. Green stated they also investigated changing the north end of their development. He noted
there are three remaining parcels to the north of the site that are same as the parcel that is now
extending to the north. They felt they needed to plan for that to have a natural and regular now
into the development whether it is townhomes, zero lot line or single-family. Therefore, they
have situated the road system to accomplish that and created a T turnaround.
Mr. Green stated they gathered some population information. The question was what kind of
population had resulted in Manchester Villas which was 58 zero lot line units. They found that
of the 58 units, 48 of them or 80 percent were bought by the traditional empty nester. 6 of the
units or 10 percent were bought by young couples. 2 of the units were purchased by single
individuals and only 2 of the units were purchased by individuals with children. He noted he
does not have information on subsequent resales.
Mr. Green stated their original plan was for a series of 26-foot wide boxes. They have now
zeroed in on three unit types: namely, 26 feet wide, 30 feet wide and 34 feet wide. They have
also looked at depths, which vary from 47 feet to 50 feet. This means they now have some
staggering that will occur naturally as the units mix together. They have also designed the units
so that vertically they don't all align. They have also staggered and stepped the units over
garages and other rooms so that as you move up and down the facade you will not get a flat
facade on either the front or the back. This site plan provides for 15 of the 34-foot wide units, 21
of the 30-foot wide units and 22 of the 26-foot wide units. They have endeavored to have the
larger units on the ends of the buildings and the narrowest units are in the middle of the building
and the mid size units are either in the middle or the end. They are all still proposed to be 3 and
4 bedrooms units, which is not inconsistent with what they did in the Villas. There were five
unit types in the Villas, ranging from 2,000 to 2,500 feet with 2 to 4 bedrooms. In this program
they are looking at 3-4 bedrooms.
Mr. Green further noted that the units would all have decks and would all have to look identical
and have the same railing style. He further stated there would be an association and there would
be standard color packages. It will also be a maintenance free development. There would be a
standard landscape package developed for the overall sitescaping.
Mr. Vane stated he has now received their topographical information and he has meet with Mr.
Kuenkler on a conceptual level. The preliminary engineering is basically ready to go. Mr.
Kuenkler is fine with the concepts of the engineering. The sewer is readily available and the
water is already along both Half Day Road and Prairie Road. The stormsewer is the only thing
in question. He noted he has sent a memo to IDOT to get their input on the detention facility.
Mr. Green noted that because it would be an IDOT sewer that will be tied into, one of the things
IDOT requires is an extra foot or two of freeboard and they have designed to meet that standard.
Mr. Green noted they have designed a right out only which will permit people in the
development to exit out onto westbound Route 22. They will have full access into the
development from Prairie Road, but it precludes moving westbound traffic on Prairie Road from
entering and cutting through the development. Prairie Road plan for lanes calls for a median
barrier along Prairie Road which would preclude people moving eastbound to turn to the north,
including the Prairie and Route 22 intersection. The Buffalo Grove Fire Department has
indicated that they are concerned that the IDOT plan is to preclude that turn from an emergency
vehicle standpoint. IDOT has stated they do not object to a right in, right out. He noted they
wanted to develop some concept to help mitigate the concerns of the Fire Department and still
work within IDOT's interests. They are therefore proposing is that there would be a reduced
barrier opposite the right out point so that emergency vehicles moving eastward on Route 22 can
mount the curb and come in at the right out only so that they would have access to the north.
Commissioner Samuels asked how anyone would get to this development.
Mr. Green states you get to this development from the east. If you are coming from the west you
will have to come in from the north.
Mr. Joseph Jaeger, representative of School District 103, stated the district is very concerned
about the number of school-aged children this development would bring into the school district.
Although Mr. Jacobs states the project is geared to empty-nester buyers, the 3 and 4-bedroom
floor plans make the units attractive to families with children. In fact, the addition of a play area
suggests that children would be welcome. He noted that School District 103 is getting close to
capacity at this time. There are also other parcels in the district that may be developed for
residential uses, and the cumulative impact would put a tremendous strain on the capacity of the
school district. He urged the Plan Commission to either reject this plan or adapt the plans more
closely to empty-nester homebuyers.
Commissioner Trilling asked if District 103 has done any research to identify what is lacking in
the plan or what should be included in the plan to help market it as an empty- nester
development.
Mr. Jaeger stated the 3 and 4-bedroom units will attract families with children. He said that
District 103 will provide information at the next workshop further explaining the concerns with
the proposed plan.
Commissioner Samuels asked how many students are coming from this area
Mr. Jaeger stated he has just been elected and is not yet prepared to answer these questions.
Commissioner Samuels noted if the school district is going to ask for restrictions or limitations
on the petitioner, the plans by the school district for the area should be brought out.
Commissioner Trilling stated the following:
1. Buildings appear very linear in the back with no undulations as there are in the front of
the buildings.
2. The width of the street and no availability for street parking is a concern.
3. The northernmost units along Prairie appear to go beyond 35-foot setback.
4. The driveway length appears to be 21 feet, which seems would not leave enough room to
pull up to the garage and would then obstruct the sidewalk.
5. He noted if there is a path around the pond, there should be a sidewalk.
6. If only 15 feet of separation between buildings is to be planned, then windows would not
be appropriate.
Mr. Green stated the backs of the buildings do appear to be flat, but some of the units do not
stack directly over one another so you will see some relief on the backs as the plans are
developed. The streets will be constructed to Village standards of 27 feet. They are not
proposing any restrictions on parking on the street, especially as they ensure that cut through
traffic is reduced, this development would not have to be concerned with everyone trying to park
here for some other reason. They are still showing parking off the streets also.
Mr. Green stated the northern units are indeed shown setback less. They felt that if this was
going to be integrated as a development, it should flow. The minimum separation between
buildings would be 24 feet. If someone were to come in in the future and want to continue with
the same kind of development, then it would not look like there is an unnatural gap there. That
is why they are looking to moving those buildings closer at that point and it would be a variation.
Commissioner Trilling stated the concept of allowing for future development, but the more
important issue to him is to maintain the space there and would prefer to make those units 2
instead of 3 so that a variance is not necessary.
Mr. Green stated he will look at this and it may work out to a rearrangement.
Mr. Green stated driveway lengths are 21 feet and then there is the 50 foot right of way which
means the walks are a foot away from that which is 22 feet and that is on the longest unit. The
other units have been designed to be shorter units from front to back and they could be 23, 24 or
25 feet on the driveways.
Mr. Green noted that Mr. Pfeil has asked them to look into a path around the pond and
connecting to the play area. It appears at this point that they will be able to make a connection
through.
Mr. Green stated they would meet all the Village standards relative to the 24 feet versus 15 feet
separation between buildings. All windows can be eliminated where the spacing is 15 feet.
Commissioner Trilling strongly recommended changing the name from play area, which brings
the thought of children, to rest area. Some type of benches or gazebo would be nice instead of
any kind of swings.
Mr. Green stated they always put a playground area in even for places like the Sunrise Assisted
Living facility. This is because the grandparents want the grandchildren to have a place. It
becomes an important part of the amenities.
Commissioner Kenski-Sroka noted concern with the density. She noted she is not convinced
they are empty nester units. Most of the time these people tend to want a single floor unit, which
is not being offered here. Therefore, it would seem that the 3-4 bedroom unit would draw
families for whatever reason. Also, the play area is a good idea even in an empty nester
community. However, the placement of the playground in such close proximity to the water
detention basin is asking for trouble. She further noted the traffic study was conducted on June
25th and July 31st which were non-school times. She suggested a study during the school year,
which would probably show significantly different numbers.
Commissioner Feldgreber asked if overnight parking would be allowed on the streets.
Mr. Green stated the Village of Buffalo Grove does not permit overnight parking on a street and
they will be following the same program.
Commissioner Feldgreber asked what impact the changes on Route 22 and Prairie Road would
have on cut through traffic to the neighborhood to the east and north of this complex.
Mr. Green said that the traffic pattern for the area is already established, including whatever
cut-through movements motorists may be using between Route 22 and Prairie Road. He said the
IDOT plan will restrict northbound turns at the intersection of Route 22 and Prairie Road.
Commissioner Feldgreber noted he also has a concern with the density. This plan is still 22
percent over what the Village would like to see.
Commissioner Dunn asked if there are any negotiations to acquire the corner parcel at Route 22
and Prairie.
Mr. Green stated there have been discussions.
Mr. Jacobs noted the owners have no intention of selling the properties.
Commissioner Dunn stated she feels that corner parcel should be an integral part of this
development.
Mr. Green stated they are trying to design it so that it would be able to incorporate this corner
parcel.
Commissioner Dunn stated she also has concerns with the density, but more significantly, by
proposing two-story, 3 and 4-bedroom units, it is not marketing only to empty nesters.
Commissioner Bocek asked about the front building elevations.
Mr. Green stated there has been no specific thought on front elevations or materials at this point.
Commissioner Bocek asked if any monument signs would be proposed.
Mr. Green stated they have not yet proposed any.
Commissioner Bocek asked what the starting costs of the units would be.
Mr. Green stated that depends on the density. He further noted their program was to have the
units start at the mid $300,000 range to start.
Commissioner Bocek noted her concern with the corner parcel and she noted she feels the
detention pond belongs on that corner.
Commissioner Samuels suggested this street should probably be a public street right, as most
associations do not want the long-term maintenance costs. He noted there are two dead end stubs
planned and he asked how school buses would be able to maneuver in these locations.
Mr. Green stated they have designed it so there is complete flow back out onto Route 22. The
turnaround is designed per Village standards of 87 foot wide.
Commissioner Samuels noted that the proposed development does not have anything that
distinguishes them toward an empty nester use while the Lincolnshire units are all one story for
the most part and accommodate the older clientele more easily. Where the option to create a
third bedroom does exist, there is no bathroom near it, so it really is a study. The likelihood that
the study will be converted into a bedroom is diminished.
Mr. Green stated it is not their interest to have unit over unit. They do not wish to create units
where fifty percent of the people have to walk up an entire flight of stairs to get to their unit.
Also, they do not want to invite the sound issues that exist in unit over unit. They also do not
want to create a situation that while you may be living on one level; you must go down one level
just to get in and out of the garage. There is considerable difference between the unit types but
there are also considerable differences in unit styles and the lifestyles of the people. He noted
their choice is to create the units as units over units and to develop the master bedroom on the
first floor. He noted the Lincolnshire unit has 56 units, this development is 58. Their
development has more land; however, their development does not have the same street
opportunities that are being put in here.
Commissioner Samuels asked what would the density go to if 25-foot front yards were
maintained.
Mr. Green stated it would go to zero. He stated what drives the yards is the width front to back.
If you increase the setback by 20 percent, you would have to increase the width of units by 10-15
percent, and decrease the units by that percentage or 6 units.
Commissioner Samuels stated that personally he would like to see no four-bedroom units
Commissioner Panitch stated less than a mile away is a shopping center and he is concerned if it
will be too inconvenient to get in and out of the development to get there.
Commissioner Panitch stated he liked the concept of a circular walk. He noted it is important to
make sure that the detention area is protected for anyone using the open areas. He further stated
he feels the schools have cycles that go up and down and will work out. In most areas with good
school districts, children and young families are an asset. He noted he would prefer no parking
in the cul de sac. He asked that the access issue be rethought.
Mr. Green stated the access on Half Day Road is not in their control or the Village's control. He
noted what is happening is that the proposed expansion of Route 22 is going to be negotiated by
the Village on how these things impact them. The Fire Department has already stated to IDOT
they do not like this being closed off. IDOT has said they feel everyday traffic is a bigger issue
than emergency traffic.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted the following items needed to be addressed at the next workshop:
1. Elevations and building materials
2. Landscaping plan
3. Size and make up of equipment to be installed in the rest or play area
4. Lighting scheme
5. Signage
6. Pond location
7. Traffic study perhaps done during school hours
Chairman Ottenheimer noted density appears to be a large issue for most of the Commissioners
in terms of both the aesthetics and the impact on the schools. He stated there has to be some
kind of compromise regarding the issue of attracting empty nesters. Perhaps if the density were
lessened to around 48 it would help this Commission. He noted a recent meeting he attended
where the overriding concern was the impact of developments on a school district. He asked that
the developer come back with some alternatives for the density issue.
Commissioner Trilling stated he is not looking at the density, but feels he has given valid reasons
for changing the plan. He noted that if the developer can accomplish the things he has brought
up relative to the northernmost units, the proximity to the sidewalk and the other things brought
up by Commissioner Samuels and if they can be accomplished by the number of proposed units,
then it is fine. However, he feels there is no choice but to reduce the number of units in order to
acquire those requests.
Commissioner Trilling further noted that his calculations of other similar developments in the
area comes up with roughly 6.7 units per acre which is more representative than the proposed 7.3
units per acre.
Commissioner Samuels stated that perhaps the developer could do something spectacular with
this development which would go a long way toward convincing the Plan Commission of its
benefits.
Mr. Jacobs noted he is sure he could make a beautiful development. He noted that the
Lincolnshire property, which Commissioner Samuels alluded to, is not on the railroad track nor
is it across from a commercial enterprise that loads its trucks at 4:30 a.m. This is a completely
different site with a different aura about it. He further noted that he cannot develop units,
landscape plans and expend another $100,000 to $150,000 before he knows where he is going
with the project. He clearly stated if he has to cut the number of units to 48, there will be no
project. He noted the property is too expensive, the units would be in the upper $400,000
bracket and this property will not carry that price. As far as empty nesters go, they have received
phone calls from the articles that get published about the meetings here. Most of the people are
looking for the master bedroom down unit, which indicates they are empty nesters. Empty
nesters by nature all want additional bedrooms for their grandchildren.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
Chairman Ottenheimer noted he attended a meeting with Trustee Braiman, Trustee Kahn, Mr.
Pfeil and Mr. Hartstein regarding development along the borders of Lincolnshire and Buffalo
Grove. For the most part both Villages were in agreement as to the types of development they
wanted along both borders.
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil noted the next regular meeting would be held on September 19, 2001.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS—None
STAFF REPORT—None
NEW BUSINESS—None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Trilling, seconded by Commissioner Dunn and carried unanimously to
adjourn. Chairman Ottenheimer adjourned the meeting at 9:25 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
LESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair