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2001-12-05 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission Document Type: 0 A e g nda 0 Minutes Meeting ate: 12/05/2001 Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION December 5, 2001 Jacobs Homes, proposed Noah's Landing townhome development, North side of IL Route 22 and east side of Prairie Road, Rezoning To the R-8 District and approval of a Preliminary Plan Workshop #4 Village Development Ordinance and Zoning Ordinance—Review of Standards concerning driveway width and driveway apron width In residential districts —Workshop #1 Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer Mr. Samuels Mr. Trilling Ms. Dunn Mr. Feldgreber Mr. Panitch Mr. Smith Ms. Bocek Ms. Kenski-Sroka Commissioners absent: None Also present: Mr. Keith Jacobs, Jacobs Homes, Inc. Mr. John Green, Groundwork, Ltd. Mr. Richard Vane, Groundwork, Ltd. Mr. Bruce Kahn, Village Trustee Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner Mr. Greg Summers, Associate Village Planner APPROVAL OF MINUTES Moved by Commissioner Dunn, seconded by Commissioner Smith to approve the minutes of the regular meeting of October 17, 2001. All commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion passed unanimously. Moved by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka, seconded by Commissioner Feldgreber to approve the minutes of the public hearing and regular meeting of November 7, 2001. All commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion passed unanimously. COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS Commissioner Dunn attended the Village Board meeting on December 3, 2001 and noted the potential referral of a proposed bank at Dundee Road and Golfview Terrace, which was not accepted by the trustees. Commissioner Smith attended the Village Board meeting of November 19, 2001 and stated the following items were discussed: 1. Unanimous approval of the Public Works building addition 2. Discussion of residential driveway apron issues relative to safety issues and affect on streetscape 3. Pre-application conference concerning a plan for single-family detached lots on land on the north side of Parkview Terrace west of Golfview Terrace on Lot 2 of the Covington Office Plaza 4. Discussion of an 800 square foot addition to the Teriyaki Box restaurant for a sushi bar JACOBS HOMES, PROPOSED NOAH'S LANDING TOWNHOME DEVELOPMENT, NORTH SIDE OF IL ROUTE 22 AND EAST SIDE OF PRAIRIE ROAD, REZONING TO THE R-8 DISTRICT AND APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN—WORKSHOP#4 Mr. Green stated the revised plan shows 53 units instead of 55 units. There is a separation between all buildings of 24 feet or more which has opened the plan considerably. They have also been able to change the mix of the unit types somewhat. There are now 23 units that have a master bedroom downstairs. There are no four-bedroom units and no plans for same. This allowed them to open up some volume space in the 35-foot units on the ends. By opening up the volume space on the widest of the units and putting that on the outside end, it allowed them to take the end of the unit that would be on the end of the building and make it 1 '/2 stories high. Mr. Green stated they are using a combination of materials; caststone masonry and vinyl siding. Both will be in earth tones and he noted they will not change the materials but will change the tonality of the trim tone. Mr. Green stated they have worked to give the buildings variation and depth. They have designed each of the units so when you put one unit next to another unit, you will always have a stagger in the garage. There will not be two sets of garage doors that are in the same plane. The units vary in depth by 2 '/z feet. They have also developed the variation where you wrap around the side. They have also pushed some elements in on the second floor on the C and A units so that there are 5-foot deep recesses in the building. They have turned the roof at those points so there is no continuity of a large mass of roof. In addition, they have added to the elevations box bay windows on the backs of the units that will come out about 8-12 inches. Mr. Green noted they have put together preliminary engineering, which includes preliminary detention calculations and design. This has been reviewed by the engineering department and approved. In addition, by doing the preliminary engineering, they were able to focus more on the detention, side slopes, grade transitions and safety ledges. All of these have now been designed in as part of the landscaping package. Mr. Green noted they have slightly altered the street structure, particularly the street that runs parallel to Prairie Road. Someone was concerned with the road extending behind the property on the southwest corner and how it would impact. They have now brought the road in so it comes just to the end. That allowed them to increase the activity area, to extend the detention area in and to adjust the location of a couple of buildings along the south side so that the space is bigger while at the same time not impacting the ability to connect into the southwest portion. They have created the right-of-way portion so that it will continue at that point and can still be developable. Mr. Green reviewed the landscape elements of the plan, noting they now have sidewalks on both sides of the street and a parkway on both sides. They have a 52-foot right-of-way instead of a 60-foot right-of-way, but they have developed 6-'/2 foot parkway on each side of the sidewalk. They have a 21-foot setback and are 21 feet from the right-of-way line. The sidewalk is a foot away from that line so there is 22 feet at the minimum point to a garage door. He further noted they always allow for some tolerance in the building envelopes. He also noted that the 6-7 parking spaces that used to be scattered around on the plan were no longer needed and they now have place to put two cars between driveways where they only had room for one before. Therefore, they have actually increased the number of on street parking opportunities. Mr. Green stated they key feature for the overall development is the activity area and detention area. A walk flows all the way through from one end to the other, from east to west. Along that walk there are two gazebos and one of the gazebos overlooks the pond. They have created a combination of wildflower planting and grass planting along and down to the detention area. The fencing within the gazebo will follow around the west end of the detention area between the activity area and the gazebo area. They have some interlocking stone terraces that step down between 18-24 inches at certain points. They have meandered the walk through the activity area. The swing set, which they feel is important to this type of development, is incorporated into the plan as well as a senior activity area. They have looked at the fence around the perimeter of the site, which will be a 5-foot fence. However, they have designed into it landscape niches which allows for landscaping along the right-of-way side of the fence. They are proposing that the existing hedge along Route 22 remains. They are dedicating the 10 feet as required along Route 22. There is a mature hedge in what would be part of that 10-foot strip. They propose to leave the hedge there until Route 22 is widened. They also propose keeping a similar hedge along part of Prairie Road. Commissioner Trilling asked if the developer has considered striping in three spaces for parking at the play area. Mr. Green stated yes, they would do so. Commissioner Trilling asked for a concept plan for how the corner lot will be developed for the next meeting. Commissioner Trilling asked what kind of landscaping the pond would have. Mr. Green stated they are trying to achieve a combination lawn and flower color. They want it to be perennial and solid ground cover, as well as indigenous to the area. That is what the flower and grass seed mix will do. Commissioner Trilling asked what the difference is between this pond and the one at Sterling Creek. Mr. Vane stated the Sterling Creek detention basin has a tributary area of 2.9 square miles. Therefore that detention basin is subject to extreme fluctuations in flow. Therefore the plants have a very rough time. The proposed detention pond is fairly normal and there are walls at some of the lower levels that will allow them to put plantings several feet above the normal water level so that those plants will not be inundated with water and will be able to flourish. Commissioner Trilling asked if any kind of brick piers had been considered for fencing. Mr. Green stated they looked at that but decided it was probably better to do the large offsets so that they could the landscaping moving in and out. Commissioner Trilling asked if the building commissioner had been contacted regarding sideward and front yard spacing. Mr. Green stated they do not have any yards, as they are envelopes. However, they have shifted the south building further to the east so the north does not overlap with the building to the east. Commissioner Bocek asked about material samples. Mr. Green stated they are in the process of collecting the materials for the next meeting. Commissioner Bocek stated she would like to see some of the masonry or stone carried around the building to the rear. Mr. Green stated they did not see a reason to carry the masonry or stone to the rear. They did see the point of carrying the movement to the rear. They have eliminated almost anything that backed up to anything else. There are three units that back up to Route 22 and eight units that come up to Prairie Lane. They concentrated the back with relief by the step-ins and the box spaces. Commissioner Bocek stated the scale of the roof is so prominent that she would like to see a nicer type of shingle. Commissioner Samuels asked if some of this property is being designated as right-of-way where the street is stubbed to the south. Mr. Green stated yes. Commissioner Trilling asked how deep the islands between the driveways are from the front of the building. Mr. Green stated they are about 5 feet. Commissioner Panitch asked about discussions relative to access with IDOT. Mr. Green stated the Village and IDOT are talking about Route 22. IDOT has indicated they intend to continue a barrier. IDOT, the Village and several other Villages will be deciding what will happen and we will all have to live with it. IDOT continues to say that the connection opportunities are about 200 feet further east where Prairie Lane is. Commissioner Panitch asked about Fire Department approval. Mr. Green stated they have access, although the Fire Department would like access to the community. Commissioner Panitch asked what the Plan Commission should do regarding access problems for the Fire Department with a new development. Mr. Pfeil stated the most recent comment from the Fire Department is that the restricted access is a big problem for them relative to response time and they are saying at this point that sprinklering the townhomes is something they seriously want to push as an alternative based on the limited access. That does not help the emergency ambulance response time, but it might be somewhat easier for an ambulance to defeat some of the restricted accesses than large fire rigs. Mr. Green stated he understands the Village is presently looking at what the time response would be. He further noted they are opposed to sprinklering. Mr. Panitch noted the fencing does not go all the way around the detention area. Mr. Green stated that was correct and noted fencing does not go all the way around virtually any detention facility in Buffalo Grove. Buffalo Grove has developed a very stringent set of standards for safety ledges, safety design, safety conditions within the water in order to have wet ponds be open features. Where the gazebo comes out and looks over the water, they have fenced the area and it wraps around to where the water moves away and there are safety ledges. Commissioner Samuels asked for an illustration using something like a Ford Exhibition in every driveway so that he can see some scale. Commissioner Samuels asked where snow would be put. Mr. Green stated they have 6'/2 foot parkways abounding so that the snow can all be piled and moved to. Commissioner Feldgreber asked what variances are now being requested. Mr. Green stated they would be looking for reduced right-of-way width because they are at 52 feet. They are again proposing to keep the hedge along both Route 22 and Prairie Road and technically they are supposed to put a walk in a foot off the right of way. They are dedicating the right of way. There is a walk along Route 22 and they are proposing a walk along Prairie Road but they are looking for a variation to not put it a foot away from the right of way line. If there is not a walk on the north side of the site, they will look for a variation for not putting a walk along the north end of the property. It is up to the Plan Commission to determine if they want a walk on the south piece and if not it would be a variation request for a walk on one side of the right of way. Also, technically a 25 foot setback is required under R-8 zoning and they are showing only a 21 foot setback which will require a variation. Mr. Pfeil asked what the assumption is concerning the side to front building separation for the two buildings at the southeast corner of the site. Mr. Green stated he is not sure and will speak to staff about that. Chairman Ottenheimer asked why the developer chose to build this project not to comply with each and every Village ordinance concerning setbacks, right of ways and density. Mr. Green stated the elements that relate to some of the variations are certainly also related to the size and shape of any parcel of land which is one of the elements that is driving this. They have developed right of way and parkway and they are asking for an 8-foot variation on the standard right of way width and the front yard because of the overall depth of the property. With regard to the 6 units per acre, the 6 units per acre are a PUD. The PUD also says that part of the goal of a PUD is to get certain amenities and features in exchange for certain considerations in order to make it a plan. They have been focusing on making that a very good plan and bringing the amenities and features together. Chairman Ottenheimer noted the density has been reduced from 55 to 53 and asked why they could not accomplish the same plan by reducing the units from 53 to 50. Mr. Green stated they are perfectly aware that if they had been able to come in at 50, they would not be dealing with some of these questions. However, it must work economically also. In addition, there were other ways to reduce some of the variations but they have been working on a PUD which allows an entire community to be built and that is what they have been trying to do. Without this the plan would not be as good as it is and the number of units does not really make the big difference. Chairman Ottenheimer stated what has been done up to this point is admirable. He asked what the price range of these units would be. Mr. Green stated marketing has determined the average price for similar projects is $301,000. He noted they are actually looking at $325,000 average. Chairman Ottenheimer stated there are two issues, which concern him greatly. The first is the density. He noted he understands there are some economics involved. He noted he is also very concerned with the ingress and egress and the limited access for this site which impacts the safety of the residents who move in. He noted his concern that the developer has no interest in putting in sprinklers. Mr. Green stated he would reserve comment on the sprinkler issue as he noted it is one of the questions still being studied. Commissioner Smith asked staff if the Village or the Fire Marshall could somehow lobby IDOT with their concerns. Mr. Pfeil stated the Fire Chief and the Village manager both sent letters in the last several months to IDOT and so far the written response has not been favorable. Basically the Village is asking that the intersection at Prairie Road and Route 22 allow left turns for emergency vehicles or to allow a median design making it feasible for emergency vehicles to get through. The Fire Chief is also looking at the response times that he would predict for this development and one of the alternatives is to use Route 22 to Prairie Lane to reach Prairie Road and then into the townhome site. If the response time looks acceptable, it might make a difference the next set of review comments for the Commission. Commissioner Samuels noted that the Beaconsfield development in Lincolnshire has some similarities to the Jacobs proposal, but appears to have a more attractive mix of building materials. He commented that he considers an amenity to include aesthetics of the overall development. The proposed overall presentation of the Jacobs proposal is very mundane. In a multi-family environment such as this, masonry on the first floor should be workable within a budget. He noted he would like to see some limestone sills instead of trim boards. He also cannot get excited about vinyl siding. He noted he could better tolerate densely packed nice looking units. Commissioners Trilling noted that the developer could easily lose three units on the plan, not change anything dramatically, and end up with the full 60-foot right-of-way. Ms. Terry Moons of District 125, stated they were pleased to see the reduction from 55 to 53 units and that there are no more 4-bedroom units being proposed. She stated the Cherbourg development, which was marketed to empty nesters currently, brings in 20 students. In the Manchester apartments and townhouses there are 9 children. The Fiore townhouses on Willow Parkway have 22 students enrolled. The Tenerife development brings 54 students and these were marketed for families. She noted they would probably not have many students coming out of 53 units, especially as there is no 4-bedroom option any longer. Mr. Joseph Jaeger of District 103 stated the 1998 Comprehensive Plan shows this area as unincorporated which, of course, projected 0 students. In 1999 they received some projection numbers of what the multi-family housing units would be to help them prepare their report and at that time there was also zero units projected. In checking their numbers from the various developments they have found as Ms. Moons mentioned that those developments marketed as empty nesters provide few students for the system, whereas those such as Tenerife provide many students. Chairman Ottenheimer noted the Commission appears to feel this project is ready for public hearing and noted a few items that will need to be addressed at the public hearing: 1. Conceptual planning for the adjacent parcels at southeast corner of Prairie Road/Route 22; 2. More information concerning appearance issues, specifically the proposed building materials, including sample boards; 3. Information illustrating the impact of the proposed bulk variations such as the 21-foot front yard and the adequacy of the driveways for parking large vehicles. VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE AND ZONING ORDINANCE — REVIEW OF STANDARDS CONCERNING DRIVEWAY WIDTH AND DRIVEWAY APRON WIDTH IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS —WORKSHOP 91 Mr. Pfeil stated the Village Board recently looked at the issue of driveway apron width in residential districts. An application has been filed with the ZBA for a cul-de-sac lot in the Highlands requesting a wider than standard driveway and apron. The Village Board decided it would not be appropriate to have the ZBA handle this type of variation based on the current provisions of the Development Ordinance. The Village Board wants the Plan Commission to look again at whether the standard for the width of an apron for two car driveways needs to be re-evaluated and perhaps expanded beyond the current 18-foot limit and whether or not any variation procedure is appropriate to exceed the width standard. Staff is reluctant to give people standing to have variations of the apron in right-of-way since it is public property. If the width standard can be modified to eliminate requests for variations, staff believes this would be a good solution for property owners and the Village. Commissioner Samuels stated the same rationale that would apply to two car garages would apply to three car garages. If he builds a house that has three 9 foot single garage doors divided by 2 or 2 '/z feet between each door, you end up with the same situation on the three car as you have on the two car. Why then limit it to a two-car situation? If we are trying to encourage people to have two single garage doors instead of one double, why not encourage them to have three single doors instead of two. Mr. Pfeil stated they are trying to address the situations that are actually coming to the Village. The fact is that for three car and bigger garages, the Village is sticking with 27 feet at the property line. You can do as much as you want in the front yard as long as you are within the 40 percent of coverage limit. Commissioner Samuels noted the same thing applies to the two-car garage. He noted it does not take you more than 18 feet at the curb to get onto a driveway. Why do you actually need anything wider than 18 feet? He stated it could be wider at the house, but why is it necessary to be wider at the sidewalk to access your two-car garage. Mr. Pfeil stated if you have a three-car garage, you get 27 feet. If, however, the garage is larger than the traditional 18-foot standard for a two-car garage, would there be harm in allowing an apron width 20 or 21 feet at the property line? That is really the specific question that was asked previously. Is it a bad thing to go from 18 feet to 20 feet at the property line? Commissioner Samuels stated that his argument is why should it be tied to the width of the spacing of the garage doors. If you are going to give someone with a two-car garage the right to have a 20-foot wide driveway, then give everybody with a two-car garage the right to a 20-foot driveway. Commissioner Samuels stated he does not see the rationale for offering a wider apron as you can taper to 18 feet without much trouble. He further noted that there are those communities that do not allow the 27-foot cut handle their three car garages with an 18-foot cut. Buffalo Grove chose to handle their three cars with a 27 foot cut, but he still does not see why that now means they should vary to the two car cuts. Commissioner Panitch stated he concurs with Commissioner Samuels. Commissioner Samuels this is without getting into street parking issues. For every number of houses on the block that widen their driveway by that two feet, you are losing a parking space eventually after three or four houses do that. Commissioner Samuels further noted that the application of this would be so limited because there is very little new construction going on that has this element to deal with. Mr. Pfeil stated he would review this with the Village Manager, the Village Engineer and the Building Commissioner to see if there is any more information they can provide to the Commission. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE Mr. Pfeil stated the next regular meeting would be held on December 19, 2001. PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS—None STAFF REPORT—None NEW BUSINESS—None ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Trilling, seconded by Commissioner Smith and carried unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Ottenheimer adjourned the meeting at 9:27 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: LESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair