2004-02-04 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: ❑A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 02/04/2004
Type of Meeting:
PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
February 4, 2004
ExxonMobil, 1248 McHenry Road/1250 Arlington Heights Road,
Rezoning of one parcel to the B-3 District, approval of a
Preliminary Plan in the B-3 District and approval of the
appearance plans for a gas station, convenience store and car wash
Chairman Ottenheimer called the hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Chairman
Ottenheimer read the Notice of Public Hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald,
explained the procedure to be followed for the public hearing, and swore in all persons who
wished to give testimony.
Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Smith
Ms. Bocek
Ms. Kenski-Sroka
Mr. Khan
Mr. Teplinsky
Mr. Stark
Mr. Cohn
Commissioner absent: None
Also present: Ms. Wendy Kenny, WD Partners
Mr. Bob Walker, WD Partners
Mr. Dan O'Connell, Trammell Crow Company
Mr. Dave O'Toole, ExxonMobil
Dr. Thomas Thunder, Acoustic Associates, Ltd
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
Mr. Greg Summers, Associate Village Planner
The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the public hearing:
Exhibit 1: Material Sample Board, prepared by WD Partners
Exhibit 2: Preliminary Site Development Plan dated December 19, 2003
Exhibit 3: Preliminary Landscape Plan, dated December 19, 2003
Exhibit 4: Car Wash Colored Elevations dated January 14, 2004
Exhibit 5: Convenience Store Colored Elevations dated January 14, 2004
Exhibit 6: Old Convenience Store Colored Elevations dated September 9, 2003
Exhibit 7: Existing Conditions Plan dated June 19, 2003
Exhibit 8: Projected Noise Levels dated October 10, 2003
Exhibit 9: Memo from Robert Pfeil to the Plan Commission dated January 30, 2004
Exhibit 10: Tree Inventory and Report dated November 4, 2003
Exhibit 11: Memo to Robert Pfeil from James Briskin, received February 4, 2004
Wendy Kenny noted the only change to the revised plan is that two signs have been removed.
One sign was an exit sign and another was an earn free car wash poster. She stated they are
proposing to remove the existing Mobil gas station and the vacant Coldwell Banker building on
the corner. They are then proposing a 4,100 square foot convenience store, free standing car
wash, new canopy and new fuel tanks.
Ms. Kenny compared the original convenience store elevations with the current proposed
elevations. She noted they have modified the brick color, the look of the front facade, reduced
signage and colors in working with staff.
Ms. Kenny stated one of the big concerns at previous meetings was for a bypass lane behind the
C-store, which they have provided at this time. In doing so they have had to change the building
to 4,100 square feet instead of 3,900 square feet. In addition they have a ten-foot dedication of
right of way along Arlington Heights Road. There are now two curb cuts along Route 83 and
they are proposing to close the one nearest the intersection and there will be one curb cut along
Arlington Heights Road. There are 16 parking stalls as required by code and they are asking for
a zoning variation of the front landscape buffer yard and the trash enclosure which is located in
the front yard of Arlington Heights Road.
Dr. Thomas Thunder stated they requested data from the proposed manufacturer, which shows a
level of about 76 decibels, which is almost the sound of a blender in the kitchen. He noted that
what makes this car wash different from many others is the fact that the doors at the entrance
remain closed during the blowing cycle. This is critical because even the weakest of doors can
provide a substantial amount of attenuation. By having this door closed it makes the sound
automatically one half as loud as it would be with the door open.
Dr. Thunder stated they also calculated the natural noise reduction that would occur from that
measurement position of 30 feet to the north to the residences and that brings them down by 11
decibels. At that point the level is about 51 decibels. The current Village code is 56 decibels.
This is an old code and he had to do a conversion in order to measure it. The operation of this
car wash would certainly meet the Buffalo Grove code. He noted the US EPA has a guideline of
55 decibels, the State of Illinois has a noise limit of 55 decibels. Therefore as long as there are
doors on the car wash that close, he is not concerned.
Mr. David O'Toole, construction project manager for ExxonMobil, stated they have made
significant changes to their standard design based on meetings with the ART. He noted they
typically do not do brick and they typically have different colors. They have made a lot of
concessions to try and fit into the Village of Buffalo Grove.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted he would like some testimony on the suitability of the site for its
proposed use, how it is consistent with land patterns and zoning in the area and the need for the
use as well as the impact on adjacent properties.
Mr. O'Toole stated the suitability for the use goes along with the fact that there is an existing
service station on the facility which they propose to rebuild into a state of the arts facility. There
is currently no car wash facility on the location, but they feel that car wash would provide a
service to the customers coming on to the site. They try to make their sites a one-stop facility for
their customers.
Mr. O'Toole stated he sees no impact on the adjacent properties. The abandoned building
would, of course, be impacted, but it would now become part of the overall site. As far as the
neighbors, they are not expanding into their direction and upgrading this existing facility would
be a positive for them.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted the Commission had received a letter from Christine Mastandrea of
the Spoerlein Commons Shopping Center concerning the height and width of the new proposed
canopy and the impact on the tenants of their center.
Mr. O'Toole stated the new canopy is taller by less that one foot. As far as visibility impacts to
the facility next to Mobil, it can only improve the visibility, as the new canopy will actually be
raised slightly. The new canopy would be put where the current existing convenience store is
and the new convenience store would be set back further from the road increasing visibility to
the property adjacent to Mobil.
Ms. Kenny stated they had a tree survey completed for the existing site and the landscape plan
has a breakdown of the trees that will remain and the ones to be relocated. A number of the trees
were not in good quality and the Village Forester agreed that they could be removed. There
were a number of trees in the northwest corner which will be kept intact and there are also a
couple of trees in the southeast corner that were in good enough condition to be relocated on site.
A couple of trees on the spot where the parking lot is going are in bad condition and will be
removed.
Commissioner Smith asked if the facility would be a 24-hour facility.
Ms. Kenny stated yes.
Commissioner Smith asked where the vacuum cleaners would be located.
Ms. Kenny stated there is an air stand and vacuum unit located on the west side of the
convenience store building.
Commissioner Smith asked if the noise study would have included these vacuums.
Dr. Thunder stated the noise study did not include that, but the fans on the blower are much more
powerful. Vacuum cleaners can vary greatly in terms of their noise but it is something that can
be specked out in the project. This means they can spec it out not to exceed a certain decibel at
three feet and if it is higher, some simple shrouding and things of that sort can help reduce the
noise and maintain it within the limits.
Commissioner Smith asked if the facility would be closed during construction.
Ms. Kenny stated it would have to close and the construction period ranges from 90-120 days.
Commissioner Kenski-Sroka noted she wants the memo from James Briskin to Mr. Pfeil
regarding the building on the corner of Route 83 and Arlington Heights Road, which was once
Long Grove school, entered into the record. He noted he is not in favor of demolishing this
building due to its historical nature.
Commissioner Stark asked if there is any concern with carbon monoxide poisoning for the
people inside the car wash with closed doors.
Mr. O'Toole noted the doors are automated and they have done numerous car wash projects like
this across the country and obviously ExxonMobil would be concerned if there were a hazardous
situation in this building. All the evidence and experience ExxonMobil has had has never
resulted in any bad experience.
Commissioner Stark asked how the bypass lane would be marked.
Mr. O'Toole stated they could put striping on the pavement. If the desire is to separate the
bypass lane from the actual queue lane to the building they can definitely put pavement striping
to distinguish the two.
Commissioner Stark asked if the existing trees would block the trash enclosure sufficiently from
the adjacent residences.
Mr. O'Toole stated yes and noted there is an upgrade to the trash enclosure at this location. This
is a brick enclosure to match the building and it is on the side of the property nearest the road on
purpose to keep it away from the neighbors. The vacuum is also located on the road side of the
building and shielded by the building from the neighbors.
Commissioner Cohn asked what the Illinois Pollution Control Board regulations provide for
decibel levels exceeding the ambient level. He asked if they are allowed to create a new use
where decibel levels exceed what already exists.
Dr. Thunder stated that is not addressed. He stated it addresses the absolute sound levels but in
cases where the ambient noise clearly exceeds that then the ambient noise by default becomes
the maximum limits.
Commissioner Cohn asked if the underground storage tanks on the plan are existing or will be
put into the ground when the facility is built.
Mr. O'Toole stated they are the proposed tanks. They will be new state of the art double wall
fiberglass tanks. The current tanks are in a different location.
Commissioner Cohn suggested the tanks perhaps should be located more centrally on the
property and farther from the property boundary just in case there are any leaks or spills.
Mr. O'Toole noted they could take that under advisement. The system is a double wall
fiberglass system. There would be spill containment around the turbine, which pumps the
product out of the tanks. He stated they try to locate the tanks in the most advantageous position
to allow safe ingress and egress to the tanker truck to come onto the site. The area in front of the
canopy may actually too narrow to fit these tanks which is why they are somewhat on the corner.
Commissioner Cohn asked if anyone has come to the petitioner to talk about the old Long Grove
School.
Ms. Kenny stated no.
Commissioner Teplinsky asked about the lighting plan and specifically how the intensity of the
lighting on the new plan relates to what is currently on site.
Ms. Kenny stated the proposed lighting plan has new lights under the canopy and there are also
some short pole lights, no higher than 16 feet, around the site just to provide proper lighting.
There is no over spillage over the property line. She noted the lighting will be improved but it is
a standard lighting layout which provides visibility all over the site without spillage onto
neighboring residences.
Commissioner Khan asked about the variation request to the design of stormwater detention.
Mr. Bob Walker of WD Partners stated the Village code specifies a 4:1 side slope and they are
requesting a 3:1 slope, which requires a variation. The other variation is in order to have native
vegetation like wetland type grass. The benefit of the wetland grass is that it actually helps
improve the water quality and helps filter any of the contaminants that run off the parking lot
itself. They need to do this because in order to get the actual volume of storage required they
would need to have underground storage, which is cost prohibitive. Therefore, the more they
can get above ground, the better and they can get more above ground by using a steeper slope.
Commissioner Khan asked the Village Engineer if it was agreeable to go from a 4:1 slope to a
3:1 slope.
Mr. Kuenkler stated that is still a maintainable slope and would be fine.
Commissioner Khan asked what kind of arrangement ExxonMobil has with the property owner
next door since they are using that property for the storage of their stormwater.
Ms. Kenny stated they are just expanding the detention basin only in the direction of their own
property. However, there is a current easement from the Village of Buffalo Grove for drainage
and utilities in this area. She further noted they are not impacting across their property line,
rather just expanding on their side. The drainage calculations take into account this basin as well
as everything that eventually leads out into the IDOT system and takes into account part of
Spoerlein's property as well.
Commissioner Samuels asked if there is any place else to relocate the trash enclosure in order to
avoid requiring a variance.
Ms. Kenny stated they have put the trash enclosure in this location to allow proper space for the
garbage trucks to come and empty the containers. She noted they have proposed that the
enclosure will be the same color brick as the building and there will also be landscaping around
it so it will not be a visible negative impact.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the variance to allow a right of way of 43 feet instead of 50 feet
from the centerline of Arlington Heights Road is agreeable to the Village.
Mr. Kuenkler stated the present right of way north of the site adjacent to Spoerlein is 40 feet and
it seemed reasonable not to require the 50 foot right of way in this location and there is a
standard parkway being provided.
Commissioner Smith stated it is his opinion that a 24-hour operation is fine for the gas and
convenience store operations but he feels the car wash and vacuum should be limited to 6:00
a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
Mr. O'Toole stated his personal feelings are that it is better for ExxonMobil to operate 24 hours
per day. He noted there may be a way to disable the vacuums after hours but he is not sure how
much use they would get after hours anyway. The car wash helps their economics and limiting
the operation would hurt the overall project.
Commissioner Smith stated the Shell station across the street has the same operation and they are
limited by those hours and he does not feel it is unreasonable to limit the car wash.
Mr. O'Toole stated ExxonMobil is excited to rebuild this location and they feel they have given
many concessions and noted their preference for 24-hour operation of the car wash.
There being no further comments or questions from anyone else present, Chairman Ottenheimer
closed the public hearing at 8:25 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
LESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair
Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: 0 A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 02/04/2004
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
February 4, 2004
ExxonMobil, 1248 McHenry Road/1250 Arlington Heights Road,
Rezoning of one parcel to the B-3 District, approval of a
Preliminary Plan in the B-3 District and approval of the
appearance plans for a gas station, convenience store and car wash
Alcott Center, 530 Bernard Drive, Review of a Preliminary Plan for a
parking lot expansion in the R-5 District—Workshop #1
Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 8:25 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Smith
Ms. Bocek
Ms. Kenski-Sroka
Mr. Khan
Mr. Teplinsky
Mr. Stark
Mr. Cohn
Commissioners absent: None
Also present: Ms. Wendy Kenny, WD Partners
Mr. Bob Walker, WD Partners
Mr. Dan O'Connell, Trammell Crow Company
Mr. Dave O'Toole, ExxonMobil
Dr. Thomas Thunder, Acoustic Associates, Ltd.
Mr. Michael Rylko, Executive Direct, Park District
Mr. John Green, Groundwork Ltd.
Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney
Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
Mr. Greg Summers, Associate Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka, seconded by Commissioner Teplinsky to approve the
minutes of the regular meeting of December 17, 2003. All Commissioners were in favor of the
motion and the motion passed unanimously with Commissioner Khan abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS—None
EXXONMOBIL, 1248 MC HENRY ROAD/1250 ARLINGTON HEIGHTS ROAD,
REZONING OF ONE PARCEL TO THE B-3 DISTRICT, APPROVAL OF A PRELIMINARY
PLAN IN THE B-3 DISTRICT AND APPROVAL OF THE APPEARANCE PLANS FOR A
GAS STATION, CONVENIENCE STORE AND CAR WASH
Moved by Commissioner Samuels, seconded by Commissioner Teplinsky, to recommend
approval to the Village Board of the petition for approval of an amendment of a Planned Unit
Development(P.U.D.) in the B-3 District and rezoning of Parcel 2 described below from the B-1
Limited Retail District to the B-3 Planned Business Center District and approval of a Preliminary
Plan with the following variations: ZONING ORDINANCE--section 17.32.020.A. (to allow an
accessory structure (trash enclosure) in the front yard along Arlington Heights Road); Section
17.44.040.D.4. (to allow a landscaped yard of 12 feet in width instead of 22 feet for a portion of
the frontage along McHenry Road); DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE — Section 16.50.040.C.
(concerning design of the stormwater detention facility); Section 16.50.070.D.2 (to allow a right
of way of 43 feet instead of 43 feet instead of 50 feet from the centerline of Arlington Heights
Road) so that the petitioner may construct its proposed convenience store, car wash and new
canopy for the gasoline service facility, pursuant to the evidence produced and the exhibits
introduced in the public hearing and subject to demonstration that the vacuum cleaners will meet
Village noise ordinance.
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka to limit the hours of
operation of the car wash only from 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
Commissioner Samuels noted this is a public hearing and there is the opportunity for the public
to object to the proposal and there is no one here to object. He stated he does not feel, in the
absence of public objection, that this is something that the Commission needs to add to the
matter at this point.
Commissioner Teplinsky stated he agrees. He noted there has been no one from the public from
the neighboring shopping center or townhomes at the workshop meetings and no one is here
tonight and he therefore agrees with Commissioner Samuels.
Commissioner Smith noted people do not always come to these meetings and it does not mean
the Commission should not stick up for those people. He noted he speaks to those people on a
daily basis and they have given him information. He stated it is not unreasonable to limit the
hours nor will it be much of a financial hardship.
Chairman Ottenheimer called for a vote on the amendment to the motion, which was as follows:
AYES: Smith, Kenski-Sroka, Stark, Cohn
NAPES: Samuels, Khan, Teplinsky, Ottenheimer
ABSTAIN: Bocek
The motion failed.
Commissioner Bocek noted the Commission's recommendation does include findings that the
suitability of the site for the proposed use is acceptable and consistent with the pattern of the
land use and the zoning in the area and it is an existing facility so the community need is there.
In addition, the impacts on the adjacent properties are not negative.
Commissioner Samuels noted the development team bent over backwards to accommodate the
Commission. He thanked the petitioner for accommodating the bypass lane and stated this will
be a welcome improvement to the corner.
Commissioner Smith stated he also appreciates the concessions made by the development team
but feels strongly regarding the hours of operation of the car wash which will have somewhat of
a detriment to the surrounding community and has no choice but to vote against the motion.
Commissioner Stark stated he feels this plan will enhance the areas around it and will vote for
this plan.
Commissioner Cohn stated he wishes there had been more comments from the public about the
Long Grove School.
Chairman Ottenheimer called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: Samuels, Bocek, Kenski-Sroka, Khan, Teplinsky, Stark, Cohn, Ottenheimer
NAPES: Smith
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: None
The motion passed 8 to 1.
ALCOTT CENTER, 530 BERNARD DRIVE, REVIEW OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN FOR A
PARKING LOT EXPANSION IN THE R-5 DISTRICT—WORKSHOP#1
Mr. Pfeil stated that when the Village Board referred this matter the context was that it was a
preliminary plan as defined by the Development Ordinance and this kind or review includes the
Plan Commission, workshop and public hearing process. That is the Plan Commission's role in
the development ordinance preliminary plan process. It is not being put in front of the Plan
Commission as a Special Use amendment and is therefore not a zoning action per say; rather a
development plan review.
Mr. Green stated this is a development ordinance process. The Park District has an ordinance in
effect for what is the Alcott Center and the Alcott Park going back to 1986-1987. This project is
a need that has been reviewed by the Park District since July.
Mr. Green stated the Park District was aware when they began talking about this that there
would be those who would not be as pleased with the concept as others. He noted the program is
to add parking to service the existing operations at Alcott Center. Alcott Center has by default
and definition become the central operating location of many of the Park District programs. A
few years ago an addition was put on at the northeast corner of the facility that provided a room
for seniors and other activities where growth had demanded that additional space be provided.
The parking is being proposed adjacent to and in conjunction with the wing that services the
adult and senior programs.
Mr. Green reviewed the overall site plan noting the area where the parking is proposed in
relation to the entire park. There is an existing parking lot behind the building now. That
parking lot would be modified so that an additional 11 spaces would be added in that area. 14
existing spaces will be removed as part of this program and 25 spaces added in the existing
parking area. Some spaces need to be removed in order to provide for the expansion of the
parking into the main area where they are putting parking and some of the spaces need to be
removed in order to provide for the expansion of the parking closer toward the building and the
senior room that was added. They would then add 43 parking spaces in the corner of the site.
The Village ordinances provide that parking can be located in a rear yard or side yard. However,
the Park District has requested that no parking cross the building setback line, which is a 35-foot
setback line. All of the parking is significantly further away than that. In addition the Village
had expressed some concern that there should be provided the detention necessary for the paving
that would be done. Right now there is unrestricted flow of this area of the site to the existing
adjacent creek. Detention is now being provided and is shown on the plan as part of the
program.
Mr. Green stated the new lot is set squeued from the lot lines and is done on purpose to help
maximize the opportunity for screening and to minimize the amount of paved area that would be
necessary and to maximize the distances that would exist from any adjacent lot line. The
proposed parking would have an open, dry detention area which would have all the detention and
which would then restrict the flow of the water into the adjacent creek area. Berming would be
created along two of the sides of the parking lot that face existing residences. Those berms
would vary in height from two feet up to seven feet depending on the amount of soil that needs
to be removed. He noted they have designed the lot to remove as much soft soil as possible
which takes the lot itself down as low as possible. There is an existing grouping of trees that
runs along the existing parking. Those 5-6 trees would be removed and relocated on the east
side of the detention area. It is the Park District's desire to try to take the existing trees, which
are 12-14 feet high and move them over because that provides an effective screen immediately.
Mr. Green noted that just the senior programming alone from 1999-2003 has increased by 21
percent. The membership has gone from 369 to 448. That does not count those who attend
programs who are not members of the programs. The Park District has heard from its
constituency that it is exceedingly difficult to attend many of the programs because parking is
not available. There are also many evening programs as well.
Mr. Green stated 54 parking spaces are probably not the right number of required spaces.
Considering that there has been a 32 percent expansion in the number of bookings and
operations at Alcott in the last 4 years and that there are 107 existing parking spaces, one could
say only 35 spaces today. However, that would not count those who have reported that they
have no place to park so they don't even come, or those who say we need to exceed the number
of handicapped spaces that are required by law because there are a number of senior operations
here. The Park District has said they need to create parking where it needs to happen at a scale
that will accomplish their goals for the next 3-4 years considering the growth in the projections.
So the 54 parking spaces is what they believe is appropriate for that.
Mr. Green noted that there are many people who park illegally in the back now even when there
are 3-4 parking spaces available in the front. People park along the driveways and on striped
areas. These people are not necessarily seeking to break the law. He believes these people are
demonstrating the need, demand and location for spaces.
Mr. Green stated the detention is being provided adjacent to the parking lot. The trees that are
now located to the west of that lot would be relocated to the east and considerable berming is
programmed to both the north and south so that additional screening can be provided. The
program also calls for additional landscaping on those berms.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted the BGRA uses part of that open field as a T-ball field and asked if
that is still needed by BGRA.
Mr. Green stated this field would be eliminated and noted the field was not in use last year. In
addition to that there are two new fields coming on line this year at Busch Grove Park.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked what additional amount of impervious surface would be added
with the proposed parking lot as opposed to what was being offered for Safety Town.
Mr. Green stated originally on Safety Town it was proposed to be somewhat over 13,000 square
feet of paving. The proposed parking lot is approximately 11,000 square feet of paving.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if there was any thought given to reconfiguring the front of the
building for parking.
Mr. Green stated there has been consideration given to locating the parking in a number of
places, not just the front. They were all considered not appropriate or viable. Appropriate has to
do with opportunity and need. The parking demand is at the wing adjacent to where the parking
is proposed. The opposite wing is where most of the pre-school and children's programs are.
The need over there and in the front is more for drop off and pickup. You will usually find 2-3
parking spaces open there when the back is already being illegally parked. It is adjacency and
the structure of operation within the building that dictates this plan.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted there is a definite need for more parking but he is disappointed that
they have not seen an alternative plan for the front of the building.
Mr. Green stated the Park District did not ignore those considerations. He noted that 400-500
feet is a considerable obstacle to many people who are seeking handicapped parking spaces. In
addition to that it does not solve all of the issues that do exist at the front and there is a great deal
more work that needs to be done to solve that. It will not handle the parking need because it is a
circulation issue.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked how many handicapped spaces are required.
Mr. Green noted that for 107 spaces, 5 handicapped spaces are required.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if there would be any handicapped spaces in the proposed new
area.
Mr. Green stated they are proposing that some of the existing spaces immediately adjacent to the
senior entrance would be reconfigured so that there would be three at that location. There would
also be two more added in the existing lot immediately adjacent behind the building.
Commissioner Samuels noted there is a large front yard area currently that makes the front
parking remote from the building. He asked how that would change in a new plan and if that
area would be eliminated.
Mr. Green stated that area would not be entirely eliminated as there are utilities there and they
ultimately need to have a drop off lane closer to the building. One of the inefficiencies that exist
there now is that you have a lot of aisle with very little parking so the goal would be to establish
double aisles. One of the other significant issues that exist on the front of the building is that in
order to park or see if there is another parking space you actually have to go back onto the street
and come back on the site. All of that needs to be addressed and the drop off lane needs to be
isolated from the rest of the parking lot.
Commissioner Samuels asked if they had tried to see how many new spaces they could get into
the front area.
Mr. Green stated yes. He noted he also included the lot that the Park District now owns and the
number they come up with is 46 and there are now 37 parking spaces there. That does not count
the 3 drop off spaces that are often used as parking. That comes up to a 9 parking space
increase.
Commissioner Bocek asked why more events are being booked here knowing that there is
already a parking issue here. Even if the proposed spaces are added, it still is not enough
parking.
Mr. Green stated that is because there are no other facilities available.
Commissioner Bocek stated that perhaps that is the issue that should be looked at.
Commissioner Teplinsky stated that while is convinced the need exists to accommodate more
people, it seems this need would have existed back when the Safety Town proposal advanced
which would have increased use of the facility and parking did not seek to be the issue then. In
addition, he noted his primary concern is with the drainage issues and asked for more detail on
how the proposed plan would affect drainage. What is being done to improve drainage in the
area and what studies have been conducted, if any?
Mr. Green stated the floodway drainage question is a separate question. He stated he
understands the desire to link it but they are not linked. The proposal is to provide some
additional paving for parking. Now that area is uncontrolled on its release. The proposed paving
would be served by a stormwater detention area in compliance with Village ordinance. The
detention will handle stormwater from the paved surface and will provide a restricted release into
the floodway area, which does not now exist.
Commissioner Teplinsky asked if the flooding issue would be made better or worse by the
parking lot.
Mr. Green stated none of this work is being done in or at the floodway and should have no effect.
Commissioner Khan noted that if there is no one downstream then when the water leaves the
parking lot it ends up in the creek that runs on the northeast side of the building. He stated that
this proposal must be taken seriously, as we are not allowing the Park District to build any other
buildings. There is a need for this kind of programming and if the Park District does not offer
this kind of programming then the people will find someplace else.
Commissioner Cohn asked how the Park District reconciles the fact that the previous Safety
Town proposal would have taken up the area now proposed for the parking lot.
Mr. Green stated at the time Safety Town was proposed there were 14 additional parking spaces
included in that. At that time the Park District indicated it was their goal to establish Safety
Town as a temporary facility for 2-4 years because they had a need to provide that program.
They knew at the time that they would have a demand but they rationalized and balanced that
need because they would have been providing those additional parking spaces for the Safety
Town program while they searched for a final location for Safety Town. They always indicated
that the location of Safety Town here was intended for temporary use.
Commissioner Stark asked for a quick lesson on detention and what is required.
Mr. Green stated there are formulas for how much impact impervious surface or buildings have.
There are requirements and Village standards and other standards for requirements to hold the
water after certain amounts of rain. You have to hold water based on the 100-year storm rate of
water coming onto the site. You then have to restrict the release of that water from that site over
an extended period of time so that it does not all rush into the same place at the same time. The
proposed detention exceeds the requirement.
Commissioner Kenski-Sroka asked why the number of programs are not reduced to a level at
which the facility can handle them if there is such a shortage of parking. It is apparent that the
Park District has outgrown this facility and she is troubled that the Commission is being asked to
put the needs of the adjacent residences on the same footing as those residents who come to use
the Park District facilities. She noted she is not comfortable with the trade off here because she
is not convinced that the additional surface area would not impact the water problem. She noted
the Park District has to do something to alleviate the number of people who are using the facility.
Perhaps this is one way to drive home the point to the Village residents that another facility is
needed if they want to continue at this level.
Mr. Green noted the Park District would not know which of the senior they should eliminate. In
addition he would suggest that the Park District is not in the business of offering programs that
do not have a demand or a need expressed to them because they have serious budget concerns
and considerations. They offer programs when the demand comes up and when the program
needs to be filled. They do do lotteries and they do have limitations but you cannot stop the
people from demanding the programs.
Commissioner Kenski-Sroka stated there are limited resources here and she is not convinced that
the additional parking is not going to materially impact the people behind it. She stated she is
not convinced that the reduction from 13,000 square feet to 11,000 square feet is material and
she does not see how this will work.
Mr. Green noted that when the Park District began this process they knew what they were facing.
As a government they have an obligation to fulfill the needs.
Commissioner Smith asked the Village Engineer what effect this additional paving going to have
on the runoff into the creek and ultimately to the neighbors.
Mr. Kuenkler stated it would have no effect.
Commissioner Smith asked what the situation is with the creek now and if there is a problem
with runoff to those neighbors at this point and the way it is.
Mr. Kuenkler stated there is no problem with runoff from the Park District site now. He noted
that the White Pine ditch at this point probably has a tributary area approaching a square mile so
10,000 square feet of paving or grass or anything really will make no change to the creek
whether it is restricted or not.
Mr. Green indicated the Park District spent a great deal of time working on their scheduling of
programs so that they do consider the load that is coming in the fulfill the program needs and
they are constantly re-scheduling them and constantly working to ensure that the balance can be
maintained.
Commissioner Bocek noted that the Plan Commission makes sure that any use coming before the
Commission has adequate parking. She feels it is reasonable to put those same criteria towards
this use.
The Plan Commission indicated this project is ready for public hearing.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil noted the next meeting would be held on February 18, 2004.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS
Mr. David Borenstein, 259 Cottonwood, stated with respect to what Mr. Green said that there is
a disparity or difference between the flooding issue and the separate development question that is
absurd. He noted he has lived here for 17 years and the flood plain is adjacent to a flood zone
and he has seen the whole north Alcott field flood 3-5 feet on several occasions. He noted the
Park District has bought a house directly west of the Alcott Center. He asked what they plan to
do with that house and suggested they tear down that house and build additional parking. This is
the beginning of the end of the park area of the Alcott Center. Eventually they will probably
need more programs and space and parking. He further noted that the back parking lot only has
one access which is very restrictive when emergency personnel are required. He stated there are
schools in the area that the Park District should be able to find ways of putting some programs
into. He noted the north Alcott field is the only open space area where people can play.
Mr. Borenstein noted the White Pine ditch is small and inadequate to carry any more water.
There is a culvert at St. Mary's which gets blocked up and St. Mary's gets flooded and this has
not been adequately addressed. He stated the Park District would essentially be destroying the
character of the neighborhood.
Mr. Irwin Krimke, 840 Weidner, stated he has walked the area of the White Pine ditch where it
starts and stated he does not think the creek rises any more than about 18 inches even after it
rains.
Mr. Sid Mitchell, 2272 Avalon Drive, stated there are many seniors in the Village and he does
not feel that enough programming has been provided for them. He noted the Park District
programs provide camaraderie and good ways to spend their time. He noted that if there are
engineers who state this will not add to any flooding, why not believe them.
Ms. Alyssia Pavalon, 241 Cottonwood, stated this is a residential neighborhood and if this is
only going to work for 4-5 years and then they build some place else, they have ruined this area
for nothing.
Ms. Eleanor Hesse, 787 Beechwood, stated there has been flooding in Lyon Park. She pointed
out the area between Dundee and Lake Cook Road has had a lot of new condominium
development with no new park space provided. She stated she would hate to see this park space
taken away. She noted it might be possible to put some senior programs into empty weekday
churches.
STAFF REPORT—None
NEW BUSINESS—None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Stark and carried unanimously to
adjourn. Chairman Ottenheimer adjourned the meeting at 9:53 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
LESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair