2009-02-17 - Zoning Board of Appeals - Minutes A
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REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 17, 2009
Chairman Entman called the Zoning Board of Appeals regular meeting to order at 7:30 P.M. on
Tuesday, February 17, 2009 in the Council Chambers of the Village Hall, 50 Raupp Boulevard.
ROLL CALL
Commissioners Present: Commissioner Stein
Commissioner Dunn
Commissioner Windecker
Commissioner Shapiro
Commissioner Au
Chairman Entman
Commissioners Absent: Commissioner Lesser
Also Present: Brian Sheehan, Deputy Building Commissioner
William Raysa, Village Attorney
DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
January 20, 2009 minutes:
Corn. Dunn made a motion to approve the minutes of the Zoning Board of Appeals regular meeting
held on Tuesday, January 20, 2009. Com. Windecker seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote: AYE — Stein, Dunn, Windecker, Shapiro, Au, Entman
NAY — None
ABSTAIN — None
Motion Passed 6 to 0. Minutes approved as submitted.
BUSINESS
400 W. DUNDEE ROAD, VILLAGE PLAZA — SIGN CODE, SECTIONS 14.20.030 AND
14.20.070, FOR THE PURPOSE OF INSTALLING A GROUND SIGN THAT WOULD BE
LOCATED CLOSER THAN THE 13.5' TO THE PROPERTY LINE AS REQUIRED BASED
UPON THE SIGN HEIGHT
Mr. Barry Millman, Horizon Realty Services, 1130 Lake Cook Road, Suite 280, Buffalo Grove,
Illinois, was present and sworn in. The public hearing notice published in the Daily Herald on
January 28, 2009 was read.
Mr. Millman explained that Horizon Realty Services has managed the Village Plaza since the late
1980's. It is a twenty-four thousand (24,000) square foot shopping center located just west of Buffalo
Grove Road and east of Arlington Heights Road. It is more like a community or neighborhood
g
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center. It is composed of doctor and dental offices, a hair salon, and some destination retailers. They
have had a ground sign in front of the center from the day the center was built that just said "Village
Plaza 400". In the fall of 2008, that sign was knocked down by the wind. They have the opportunity
now to replace that sign. Many tenants over the years have requested to have their names listed on
the sign instead of having a sign that just lists the center name and address. They have approximately
fifteen (15) tenants in the center. Visibility is everything to a retailer. Most of the retailers have been
there a long time. Their businesses are suffering and they are trying to achieve more recognition by
having their name on a sign that people can see as they are driving by. The center is a mid-block
location and people drive by at a higher rate of speed. They do not have luxury of a stoplight
intersection. They need a sign that lets people know where they are located. They do have a vacancy
in the center. Being in the location they are, their taxes have increased about thirty-five (35) percent
in the last year and that has caused hardships on some of the tenants. Unfortunately, they have lost
some tenants due to the higher taxes. They are trying to keep the center full and the sign would help
entice prospective new tenants.
Ch. Entman read the Village Engineer's memorandum addressed to Brian Sheehan dated February 2,
2009 which states: "I have no comments on the proposal."
Ch. Entman asked if the proposed sign would be the same size as the previous ground sign that blew
down. Mr. Millman advised that the proposed sign would be the same size as the previous sign.
Corn. Dunn asked if the previous sign blown down by the wind was thirteen (13) feet tall and ten
(10) feet wide. Mr. Millman advised that is correct. Corn. Dunn asked if all the previous sign said
was "Village Plaza". Mr. Millman explained that was all they were permitted to have on the sign
when the center was built. Corn. Dunn does not recall the previous sign being so large. Mr. Millman
added that they had previously tried to get a tenant directory.
Corn. Shapiro inquired about the office suites and if the number of office suite tenants would change.
Mr. Millman stated that there are four (4) office suites and one (1) of the retail tenant's expands into
an office suite. The number of office suites will not change.
Com. Windecker asked if the previous sign extended to one and one half (1-1/2) feet from the
property line. Mr. Millman did not know the answer to that question. He provided a photograph of
the previous sign.
Ch. Entman stated that it appears that the previous sign did extend that close to the property line.
Ch. Entman stated that he is not in favor of signage listing all of the tenants. There are some signs in
the Village that have some of the tenants. There may be some that list all of the tenants. Quite a few
of the tenants in this center are not retail at all. There are three (3) dentists and an attorney. There are
other businesses which he would not classify as retail. There is some retail, but he would not classify
them as impulse retail. They are more destination retail. Destination retail would be when someone
knows where they are going, it is just a matter of finding the address and the name of the center as
opposed to not being able to find the business if they know that address. If the sign itself is being
replaced in the same location and it was this height, the Board usually sticks to nothing higher than
what is being proposed. He understands the need for the sign with today's economy. Ch. Entman
asked about the vacancy rate of the center. Mr. Millman stated that the center is twenty-two (22)
percent vacant right now. This year, there are five (5) leases up for renewal. This year they will be
marketing heavily because he is not sure that some of the tenants up for renewal will be able to
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sustain another year of rental.Ch.Entman stated that it is rare that he is convinced that the style,size
and shape of a sign is directly linked to the viability of any business.There are occasions where a
sign is essential.
Corn.Au confirmed there are sixteen(16)tenant panels and four(4)office suite panels,for a total of
twenty(20)tenant panels on the proposed sign.She inquired if they had discussed listing only one
(1)or two(2)of the major tenants on the sign.She is not sure if she would be able to read the sign as
she was driving by.The proposed sign seems to be a mess of words.
Mr.Millman stated that it is hard to list only one(1)or two(2)tenants in a center such as this one
because most of the lease spaces are pretty much the same size.Normally in a shopping center,it is
determined by square footage.He added that at the office,they ask all the time if the larger tenant
should get the large space on the sign or should the smaller tenant get the larger sign space.In this
instance, other than two (2) tenants, the spaces are all about the same size. They also have the
situation that the property was constructed in an"L"shape so not all of the tenants have dead on
street visibility.A couple tenants are obstructed in the corner by foliage.It is difficult to decide as to
which tenant would have the right to be exposed to the street.In this instance,they would have a hard
time deciding which would get sign space.
Corn.Stein stated that due to him being employed by Allstate and Allstate is a tenant in this center;
he is recusing himself from this request.
Corn.Dunn agrees with Ch.Entman and that the businesses have very large signs above them on the
building itself.The proposed sign has a lot of text on it and going by on Dundee Road at forty(40)
mph would be hard to read.She is not in favor of all the language on the proposed sign.She asked
about the construction of the sign.Mr.Millman stated that the proposed sign would be constructed of
aluminum with white faces and bronze graphics.The sign would be internally illuminated.There will
be landscaping around the base of the sign to replace what existed previously.He is not sure of the
specific type of shrubbery.
Mr.Millman stated that if the Board believes that there is too much lettering on the sign now,what
would the Board propose.
Ch.Entman stated that the Board could not recommend anything.He has not received any evidence
that supports that by putting a sign in a certain shape,size,or color with these panels that would
guarantee to increase business.As a result,he looks at what type of tenants are in a center.He does
not see these tenants as the type that would attract someone that is just driving by.The previous sign
was an appropriate sign for this center. The previous sign was also higher than what he would
normally allow for this size center.He is not in favor of having tenant identification on it.
Corn.Shapiro asked about the length of time for the tenants.Some seem to be longer term tenants.
Crown Trophy and the Fire Hydrant have both been there a long time.Mr.Millman stated that some
are long term tenants,but several of the tenants are on month to month leases.They have allowed
them to retain month to month leases because some tenants just cannot commit to long term leases.
Corn.Shapiro agrees that tenant panels for non-retail tenants seems unnecessary.He understands that
some tenants do not face the street.He believes that most people coming to this center know where
they are going and the address identification is sufficient information.
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Corn. Windecker stated that the proposed sign is too busy. Village Plaza is what should be
emphasized on the sign since traffic is moving at forty (40) mph on this road. They won't be able to
see the tenant panels at that rate of speed. He believes that the sign should emphasize the name of the
center and the address.
Ch. Entman stated that the comments from the Commissioners are consistent with not having
identification of tenants and staying with the name and address of the center.
Mr. Millman understands about having sixteen (16) tenants listed on the sign. It would be hard to
read them all. He inquired about redesigning the sign to have two (2) or three (3) tenants listed and
then periodically change them. So every tenant, at one point or another would have exposure on the
sign. He cannot envision a sign yet, other than a reader board, which would be approved. He would
like achieve the result of a digital reader board, possibly with a smaller reader board with changeable
letters to advertise businesses.
Ch. Entman stated that the Board would review any new proposal. He does have an issue with and
would not approve anything with advertising on it. He would consider a sign that has less tenant
panels that could be interchanged monthly. He would like to see a smaller sign with what they are
trying to accomplish.
Mr. Sheehan advised that if the Petitioner decides to go with interchangeable panels or panels that
would be moved around, the Village would need to republish for a changeable copy sign.
Mr. Millman requested to Table this matter until the next regular meeting to provide alternative
proposals.
Corn. Windecker made a motion to Table the request made by Horizon Management, 1130 Lake
Cook Road, Suite 280, Buffalo Grove, Illinois 60089, for variance of Sign Code, Section 14.20.030,
pertaining to Business Districts; and Section 14.20.070, pertaining to Ground Signs, for the purpose
of installing a ground sign that would be located closer than the thirteen and one half (13.5) feet to
the property line as required based upon the sign height for the property located at 400 W. Dundee
Road.
Corn. Dunn seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote: AYE — Dunn, Windecker, Shapiro, Au, Entman
NAY — None
ABSTAIN — Stein
Motion Passed 5 to 0, 1 Abstention. Item to appear on the March 17, 2009 Zoning Board of Appeals
agenda.
1701 WEILAND ROAD, ROYAL TOUCH CAR WASH — SIGN CODE, SECTION 14.40.025,
TO ALLOW THE NORTH AND SOUTH GROUND SIGNS TO CONTAIN CHANGEABLE
COPY FOR THE PRICE ONLY
Mr. John Imreibe, Royal Touch Car Wash, 1701 Weiland Road, Buffalo Grove, Illinois was present
and sworn in. The public hearing notice published in the Daily Herald on January 29, 2009 was read.
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Mr. Imreibe explained that he previously appeared before the Board to request to allow "Exterior
Wash" and the price on the two (2) ground signs. At that time, the price was $3.95. They recently
lowered their price to $3.00. The pricing is a vinyl decal that they peeled off and replaced with the
new price. It was brought to his attention by the Building Department that they should have
originally applied for a changeable copy sign to allow them to change the price as needed.
Ch. Entman recalls the previous request and the discussion that took place. The variance was granted
but it was made explicitly clear that the Petitioner would be stuck with that price on the sign the way
it was presented. This request is to allow for the price portion of the sign to be changeable. He does
not have any issues with the request.
Corn. Windecker agrees that the issue about the price was discussed previously.
Mr. Imreibe confirmed that if this variance is granted, he would not have to return to change the
price.
There were no additional questions or comments from the Commissioners. There were no questions
or comments from the audience.
Corn. Stein made the following motion:
I move we recommend to the Village Board to grant the request made by Royal Touch Car Wash,
1701 Weiland Road, for variance of Sign Code, Section 14.40.025, pertaining to Changeable Copy
Signs, for the purpose of allowing the north and south ground signs to contain changeable copy for
the price only. The remainder of the signs will not be changeable copy.
Pursuant to Sign Code, Section 14.44.010, Sub-section A.
Corn. Dunn seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote: AYE—Stein, Dunn,Windecker, Shapiro,Au,Entman
NAY—None
ABSTAIN—None
Motion Passed 6 to 0. Findings of Fact attached. Item to appear on the March 9, 2009 Village Board
agenda.
Mr. Imreibe asked if he would need to obtain a permit to change the price. Mr. Imreibe was advised
that he would not need a permit to change the price.
2871 DUNSTAN LANE, ROBERT AND RANDI SOBEL — FENCE CODE, SECTION
15.20.040, TO CONSTRUCT A FIVE (5) FOOT WOOD FENCE THAT WOULD EXTEND
THIRTY (30) FEET BEYOND THE BUILDING SETBACK LINE ALONG BUFFALO
GROVE ROAD
Mr. Robert Sobel and Mrs. Randi Sobel, 2871 Dunstan Lane, were present and sworn in. The public
hearing notice published in the Daily Herald on January 31, 2009 was read.
Mr. Sobel explained that they moved into the house a little over a month ago. They have three (3)
small children and a dog. With no fence being on either side they run the risk of either the children or
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the dog getting out. And since Buffalo Grove Road is right there, they would like to fence in the
backyard so they can let both the dog and the kids in the backyard and not have to worry about them.
Mrs. Sobel added that there are existing fences on three (3) sides of the house. They just want to
finish off the fence.
Ch. Entman read the Village Engineer's memorandum addressed to Brian Sheehan dated February 2,
2009 which states: I have no comments on the proposal."
Mr. Sobel added that the fence that would be past the building line in the back yard would be covered
by ten(10) foot high bushes.
Ch. Entman confirmed that the Petitioner would install fencing from the house to the existing fence
on either side of the house. One of the fences running along Buffalo Grove Road is the wrought iron
fence. There is a wood fence in the rear and another wood fence in side yard on the north side of the
house. They would be connecting with a five (5) foot wood fence.
Mrs. Sobel stated that since there are three (3) different kinds of fences, they would install a basic
traditional wood fence.
Com. Shapiro asked if the existing wood fences are the same type of wood fence they are proposing.
He knows about the wrought iron fence. Mrs. Sobel advised that they are two (2) different fences.
Corn. Shapiro confirmed that they are both five (5) foot high wood fences. He asked if they could
match the wood fence that they would be butting up against on the north. Mrs. Sobel advised that the
wood fence on the north is a tall black fence. She does not know what style of fence it is on the
property to the north. The style would be similar. Com. Shapiro does not have any issues with the
request.
Com. Windecker asked if the Petitioner's would be using the contractor as shown in the proposal
submitted with the application. Mr. Sobel advised that they will. Corn. Windecker stated that the
fence posts should be put into concrete so the fence does not blow down.
Mrs. Sobel presented letters from neighbors showing no objections. Ch. Entman accepted the signed
letters,read them into the record and marked them as Exhibits"I1" I2" "I3" and"I4".
There were no additional questions or comments from the Commissioners. There were no questions
or comments from the audience.
Corn. Dunn made the following motion:
I move we grant the request made by Robert and Randi Sobel, 2871 Dunstan Lane, for variance of
Fence Code, Section 15.20.040, pertaining to Residential Districts, for the purpose of constructing a
five (5) foot wood fence that would extend thirty (30) feet past the building setback line along
Buffalo Grove Road. Said fence would begin near the southeast corner of the house and extend
southeast to the existing fence along Buffalo Grove Road.
Subject to the Village Engineer's memorandum dated February 2, 2009. The Petitioner's have
demonstrated hardship and unique circumstances. The proposed fence will not be detrimental to the
public health, safety and welfare and will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood.
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Corn. Windecker seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote: AYE—Stein, Dunn,Windecker, Shapiro, Au,Entman
NAY—None
ABSTAIN—None
Motion Passed 6 to 0. Findings of Fact attached. Permit may be issued in fifteen(15) days—March 5,
2009.
ROGERS CENTRE FOR COMMERCE, ARTHUR J. ROGERS & COMPANY — REVIEW
OF THE STATUS OF THE "FOR RENT, SALE, LEASE SIGN" LOCATED AT THE
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF BARCLAY BOULEVARD AND APTAKISIC ROAD
Mr. Norman Ross, Arthur J. Rogers & Company, 1601 Barclay Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois,
was present and sworn in.
Mr. Ross explained that the leasing sign is located at the corner of Barclay Boulevard and Aptakisic
Road. The Centre consists of four hundred six thousand (406,000) square feet. They currently have
eighty-six thousand (86,000) square feet or twenty-two (22) percent of vacancy and another fifty
thousand (50,000) square feet of leases expiring in the next six (6) months. They are twenty-seven
hundred (2,700) square feet ahead of where they were six (6) months ago. They are looking to keep
the sign up. The sign is beneficial to them.
Ch. Entman does not have any issues with allowing the sign to remain but would like to keep the
review at six(6)months.
There were no additional questions or comments from the Commissioners. There were no questions
or comments from the audience.
Corn. Windecker made a motion to allow the existing For Rent, Sale, Lease Sign for Arthur J. Rogers
& Company to remain at the southwest corner of Barclay Boulevard and Aptakisic Road for six
months. This sign will be reviewed at the August 2009 Zoning Board of Appeals meeting for status.
Corn. Stein seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote: AYE—Stein, Dunn,Windecker, Shapiro, Au,Entman
NAY—None
ABSTAIN—None
Motion Passed 6 to 0. Item to appear on the August 18, 2009 Zoning Board of Appeals agenda for
status review.
JCYS—SIGN DISCUSSION
Ch. Entman read the memorandum addressed to the Commissioners from Brian Sheehan dated
February 10, 2009 concerning the JCYS sign. The content on the sign will be modified back to text
only as approved by the ZBA.
`FOR RENT, SALE, LEASE SIGNS"UPDATE
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Mr. Sheehan advised the Commissioners that the Village is in the process inventorying the leasing
signs within the Village. As of this date, over fifty(50)letters have been sent out.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
Ch. Entman stated that the proposed text amendment to the Fence Code Criteria looks good. It
incorporates what the Commissioners discussed. The brackets should be removed and the language
included. This item will be on the March 17, 2009 Zoning Board of Appeals agenda and a
recommendation will be made to the Village Board.
Corn. Windecker stated that there are a lot of fences that are falling down. He read an email from
Ghida Neukirch, Deputy Village Manager. He suggested that the Fence Code be modified to include
that all fence posts should be placed in concrete and that stockade fences should be prohibited.
Mr. Sheehan advised that this could be discussed as an amendment to the Fence Code. He would be
concerned about the posts deteriorating at the concrete.
ADJOURNMENT
Motion to adjourn the meeting was made by Corn. Windecker and seconded by Com. Stein. Voice
Vote—AYE was unanimous.
Ch. Entman adjourned the meeting at 8:37 P.M.
Submitted by,
lie Kamka
ecording Secretary
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