1979-11-08 - Appearance Commission - Minutes APPEARANCE COMMISSION
VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVE, IL.
THURS. , NOV. 8, 1979
WORKSHOP
A Workshop relative to the B5• Proposed recommendation regarding the
Town Center was. held before the regular Appearance. Commission meeting
on Thursday, Nov. 8, 19?9. Com. Kirby acted as Chairman in the ab-
sence of Don Hardt. The Workshop began at 7:10 P.M.
James Truesdell - Plan Commission; and
Robert N. Katz and Jerry Brim of Brim/Braun Associates
discussed the problem areas outlined in the Oct. 9, 1979 letter from
D. L. Hardt. A copy of Mr. Truesdell's consensus report is attached.
In conclusion, the Commission asked to be represented on the
Town Center Board. Also, the revised copy of the Ordinance is to be
reviewed by the Appearance Commission at another Workshop when Brim/
Braun can be represented.
1. CALL TO ORDER
At 8:08 P.M. the official meeting of the Appearance Commission was
called to order by Com. Kirby.
2. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Present: Lou Paolillo, Dana Knaak, L. Gibbs,
Michael Holland, L. Kirby (Acting Ch. )
Commissioners Absent: Don Hardt (Chairman)
Building Department Representative Present: James D. Griffin
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Sept. 27, 1979 - Motion to approve made by Com. Gibbs; seconded
by Com. Knaak. Approved unanimously.
Oct. 11, 1979 - Motion to approve made by Com. Knaak;• seconded
by Com. Gibbs. ..Approved. ..(L... Paolillo abstained.
Oct. 25, 1979 - No meeting due to lack of quorum.
4. BUSINESS
a) Buffalo Grove T.V. - Wm. Steinkoff - Sign Change
Mr. Steinkoff explained that the original sign was vandalized
and that the new Zenith panel was ordered to replace the
Anthony's T.V. . section of the sign.
Ch. Kirby explained Sec. 10.1 (c) of the Sign Code, Loss e
Non-Conforming Status. When a sign is changed it must come
to the AC for review. Under the Ordinance, only idenitifica-
tions are allowed; no advertising of Zenith or RCA. If the
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broken panel is replaced with Anthony's TV it would be OK.
Or; a variance could be requested from the ZBA, but it is not
likely- that the advertising would be allowed.
Mr. Steinkoff asked if he could remove the whole top and put
up a Buffalo Grove TV sign.
The AC agreed to this and asked that a copy of the new sign
be submitted within 60 days and be installed as soon as pos-
sible after approval.
b) Arbors - Al Davis - Temporary Sign on Dundee Road
Mr. Davis said he thought the sign company has submitted the
sign before it was erected. He explained that Al Frank had
originally obtained a variation from the Village to put up
the Oak Creek sign. The new sign has been moved 8 ft. out
toward Dundee Road so that is more visable to the traffic.
(Two large trees block the view from the East and West; and
the cost of moving them is too high. ) The sign would be left
up only until the units are sold, perhaps fall of 1980 but the
mortgage market is not good.
Ch. Kirby excused herself and appointed Com. Knaak Chairman:
A site plan was presented and possible alternate locations
were discussed. To meet the Code it would have to be 10 ft.
from the lot line but it would not be seen from there. It
is now 5-7 ft. over the line. Ch. Knaak said the sign could
be reviewed for appearance,' but . a ZBA variance would be
needed.
The sign is Chocolate/green trees with white lettering. It
is 8'x 16' or 128 sq. ft. This would require another ZBA
variance. Also, Mr. Davis was instructed to come in first
if any other changes are made.
Mr. Davis stated it would not be changed, and described the
permanent signage on the fence.
Qom. Gibbs made the following motion:
I move we accept the sign for the. Arbors as presented,
for appearance, colors being brown, green and white
as indicated on the drawing; being a temporary sign -
time period not to exceed one year. If units are sold
sooner, it is to be removed.
The motion is predicated upon the approval of the ZBA
variance of size and location of the sign.
Com. Paolillo seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye - Holland, Paolillo, Gibbs
and Knaak
Nay - None
Motion Passed. (Com. Kirby did not vote.)
Com. Kirby returned to Chair the meeting.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Two
c) Cambridge On The Lake - Al Swanson - Sign Change
Mr. Swanson apologized for not having the "Models Now Open"
portion of the sign approved before attaching it to the sign.
He presented a different design to rectify the violation.
The new copy will be painted on.
Also, Mr.. Swanson asked that the directional arrow on the
small 3' x 5' sign just inside the gates be reversed.
Com. Gibbs made the following motion:
I move we approve the request to move the arrow
direction on the sign as presented; and also
move we accept the "Models Now Open" as an
addition to the sign now in existance, letters and
colors as presented in the sketch.
Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye - Paolillo, Knaak, Holland,
Gibbs and Kirby
Nay - None Motion Passed, Unanimously.
d) Anderi - Jerry De Grazia - Parkway Trees
Mr. De Grazia presented the Landscape Plan and named the
Parkway Trees: Green Ash - dominant 43%
Norway Maple )
Linden These three to be
Locust equally distributed, 20% each.
Mr. Paige has been consulted and his report will be completed
next Tuesday (Nov. 13, 1979) . Some Green Ash trees are al-
ready planted, but the remaining trees will be planted in any
way the AC and the Forester prefers. They will comply with
the Village Forester's report.
Ch. Kirby asked that trees less than 2-1/2 inches be staked.
Location of trees shall be subject to thePublic Works Dept.
The number of trees dipicted shall be planted with the same.
density as submitted. Requested trees be balled/burlaped..
Com. Holland made the followinguntion:
I move we approve the Street Trees for Anden Corp. ,
Northwoods Subdivision as presented; with the
following stipulations:
1 - Trees less than 2-1/2 inch caliper must be
staked;
2 - All trees to be balled and burlaped.
3 -Species of trees and locations of trees be
subject to the Village Forester;
4 - Number of trees to be as submitted exactly.
Com. Gibbs seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye - Paolillo, Knaak, Gibbs, Holland
and Kirby.
Nay - None
Motion Passed, Unanimously. '
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Three
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e) Hidden Lakes - Model Landscaping, Signs, Lighting
Dearborn Development - Sonny La Brandt, Mr. Hyman (Arch. )
La Haie Landscaping - Bob La Haie
Bruce Johnson & Assoc. - Tom Pitman
Mr. Hyman presented the architectural materials for the
six 8 unit condominium buildings.. Colors displayed.
Soffit and Facia trim - #712 Olympic stain.
Siding - Boise cascade - #918 Olympic Stain ,. .
Common Brick - Beige -Brown.
Exterior lighting - Antique Bronze as presented or similar.
Com. Paolillo made the following motion:
I move we accept the materials for Hidden Lakes
as presented with the stipulation that the light
fixtures are subject to change but the selection
is to be similar quality and design, or equal with
the approval of the Village administrator.
Materials to be as stated in the minutes.
Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye - Knaak, Gibbs, Holland,Paolillo
and Kirby
Nay - None
Motion Passed Unanimously.
Signage - Cut timbers of varing heights for posts. The
lettering is flat white, background #712 - olympic
below grade - creosote. stain.
. A small temporary sign was requested at the
entrance to the model area and a larger permanent
sign will be constructed on an island at the
main entrance.
Maintenance of the Island sign was discussed and
it will be up to the Homeowner's Assn. to accept
responsibility of it. This will be written into
the contract. It is 27 sq. ft. and it should
weather well so maintenance would be minimal.
The base will be. well landscaped. No lights.
A Site Plan was discussed. A is a small version of the
Island sign.
B,D,E - Information Center signs directing
people to parking then to models and
•sales center. - 3 x 6 ft.
F,G,H, - Model Signs - 3 x 3 ft. Model area
will be lit but no lights on signs.
Com. Holland made the following motion:
I move we accept the signage for Hidden Lakes Dev. -
as presented, with the following stipulations:
a) Permanent sign on Busch Rd. to be erected
on the Island Entrance be landscaped at
the base and maintained by the ub-division
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
Nov. 8, 19?9 - Page Four
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Association upon the deeding of the
land, or be removed.
b) That Sign designated "A-"_ be considered
a temporary sign, and be removed at the
completion of the sales of the sub-division.
". Permit to be issued for a •period of 1 year,
and renewed each six months thereafter if
the sign is well maintained.
Com. Paolillo seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye == Gibbs, Knaak, Paolillo, Holland
and Kirby
Nay - None
Motion Passed Unanimously.
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Lighting and Fencing
The Fence is to be a split rail (2 rail) type used to route
traffic to the model area and prevent traffic into the con-
struction area. All fences that cross roadway will be on
platforms so they will not damage asphalt on road .
Lighting- Post lights 5 ft. high with two globes. A total
of 7 lights which will provide a wash effect for the park-
ing and walking area. Cedar posts to complement dev. color.
Ground quartz lights will be screened and will not interfere
with residential^areas.
Lighting on the temporary ground sign was, discussed at length.
Since no other construction signs in B. G. have been allowed
lighting Com. Knaak and Com. Holland did not wish to have them.
Other Commissioners felt this was a low sign, not large bill-
board type and should be given lights on timers for when the
sales office is open.
Oh. Kirby stated that each sign must be treated individually
and setting precedents is not an issue .
Com. Gibbs made the following motion:
(Sign A- not included. )
I move we approve the lighting as presented by
Hidden Lakes as presented; including fences on plans,
S - All 5'post lights and quartz floodlights
as indicated on the drawing;
2 - Floodlights not to cause any problems
to homeowners situated behind the signs.
Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye - Paolillo, Knaak, Holland, Gibbs
and Kirby
Nay - None
Motion Passed Unanimously.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Five
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Com. Knaak made a motion that no lighting shall be
on Sign A- 5 x 4 ft. as indicated as
the Hidden Lakes identification sign.
Com. Gibbs seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye - Paolillo, Gibbs and• Knaak
Nay - Holland and Kirby
Mr. Griffin th®nght a 4 vote is necessary for a decision.
Therefore, the motion is automatically tabled until the next
meeting, but the developer does not need to appear.
If 3 votes re sufficient then the Motion is passed to deny
lights on he temporary sign and can be appealed to the
Village Board.
Temporary Sales Trailer
The drawing of the trailer was presented and discussed.
It will face the development with the back to Busch Rd.
The front will be landscaped and the facade of the front
of the trailer is paneled with the same siding as the
models. It will be used as a Sales Office until the models
are ready in approximately six months, but this time can be
extended. A sign on the front measures 4' x 16' - with the
hours and phone number below. If the phone number is changed
it is to be repainted (not attached in any way. )
Lighting will be along the walkway but no flood fights.
Since the rear of the the trailer faces Busch Road and it
is not attractive, even with the proposed birm, the AC ask-
that both sides be sided with the wood paneling.
Com. Holland made the following motion:
I move we accept the treatment of the Hidden
Lakes Sales Trailer as depicted, with these
stipulations:
a) The front side faces south away
from Busch Road.
b) The rear, facing Busch Rd. , be
sided as shown for the front of
the trailer. •
c) Landscaping treatment for the
front be as depicted.
Com. Knaak seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken:
Aye - Paolillo, Gibbs, Knaak, Holland
and Kirby
Nay - None
Motion Passed.
Landscaping
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Mr. Bob La Haie presented the Landscape Plan showing the
overall drawing of the entire project, but only landscaping
for the Model Area will be completed for the opening. A
complete plan will be submitted at a later date. The area
at the East side is being left open for visibility.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Six
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. Large sized trees are being used. The Island around the
parking area is sodded. Probably bark mulch will be used.
Since a Forester' s report is not available a question arose
over the use of Silver Maples, but the developer will follow
the suggestions given by Mr. Paige.
Com. Knaak made the following motion:
I move we approve the Hidden Lakes landscaping of
. the Model area as presented with the stipulation
that the Forester' s review is followed.
Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye - Paolillo, Gibbs, Holland,
Knaak and Kirby
Nay - None
Motion Passed, Unanimously.
5. ANNOUNCEMENTS
Mr. James Griffin reported that Mr. Bob Bogart has requested
an amendment to the Sign Code to allow off-site signs for
house sales because of the depressed market. •
Pres. Clayton asked that the AC discuss the matter.
Ch. Kirby was present at the Board meeting, as well as ZBA
Chairman R. Heinrich, but because of the pressure of time,
no discussion was heard. Ch. Kirby stated that if people
are allowed to put signs on the right-of-way for any reason,
others can also claim hardship also.
The rest of the AC agreed and made the following statement to
the Village Board: •
It is the feeling of the Appearance Commission that
the Sign Ordinance regarding `:For Sale" signs for -
residential premises should remain as it is written.
Regarding the letter Mr. Lou Shassian wrote concerning the
house with the green roof, the AC agreed that he should come
back for approval.
Mark Drugs has resolved the Pylon Sign problem by establishing
a Mark Family Drugs office. . This was agreeable to the AC.
6. ADJOURNMENT
A motion to adjourn was made at 10:20 P.M. by Com. Holland,
seconded by Com. Gibbs. Meeting adjourned by unanimous vote.
Res ectfully submitted,
Shirley Ba s, Secretary
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Seven
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TO: .Pres. Verna Clayton and Village Board
FROM: Appearance Commission
SUBJECT: Off-Premise "For Sale" Signs
DATE: Nov. 15, 1979
It is the feeling of the Appearance Commission that the
Sign Ordinance regarding "For Sale" signs for residential
premises should remain as it is written.
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L. Kirby, Ac g Chairman
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TO: William R. Sommer
FROM: James Truesdell
DATE: November 9, 1979 •
SUBJECT: B-5 TOWN CENTER ORDINANCE - RESOLUTION OF DIFFERENCES BETWEEN
THE APPEARANCE COMMISSION AND BRIM/BRAUN ASSOCIATES
At the November 8, 1979 Appearance Commission meeting, the Commission
members, Brim/Braun Associates and I met to resolve the discrepancies which
existed .in the appearance criteria of the proposed B-5 Ordinance.
Basically, there were thirteen (13) issues to be resolved, I am happy
to say that all points were thoroughly discussed and all problems were allev-
iated to everyone's satisfaction. Below, I have listed the thirteen points
and described how they will be resolved.
• 1. In the August 7, 1979 draft ordinance, section 7.3.1-I allowed for signs
on a building to be attached to one or more facades. This was in conflict
with section 7.4.6-A which allowed only one wall sign per occupancy. The
October 3, 1979 public hearing draft excluded section 7.3.1-I. It was the
opinion of Brim/Braun Associates that multi-facade signs should be allowed
in cases where buildings have double frontage or there are corner occupan-
cies.
• The Appearance Commission has agreed that in certain cases multi-facade
signage should be allowed. However, since these would be special cases,
they should be only allowed as a variati-on to the ordinance. Therefore
wording needs to be added to the ordinance explaining that this situation
would need a variance and also an explanation of the procedure for allow-
ing this variance. •
2. It is agreed by both parties that a definition section, similar to that in
our current sign code, needs to be added with some modifications in order
to tailor the definitions specifically to the B-5 Ordinance.
3. Section 7.4.6-B allows for ground or free standing signs for any user with
a 75 foot frontage. The current sign code only allows these signs at 500
foot intervals. The point was made by Brim/Braun Associates that a multi-
tenant building would need to submit a sign package in which the entire
center would only be allowed one ground sign, not each individual occupancy.
Wording can be added the ordinance specifically clarifying this situation.
It was also pointed out that since the minimum lot size is 5 acres, there
will be very• few signs of this nature. The Appearance Commission agreed,
however, they were still uncomfortable with the 75 feet figure and felt this
should be increased. No specific recommendation was made at the meeting as
to what the revised figure should be.
• In the same section of the ordinance, ground signs could be allowed a max-
imum height of 25 feet. The Appearance Commission would like this reduced
to 20 feet.
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B-5 TOWN CENTER ORDINANCE •
November 9, 1979 •
Page 2
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4. Section 7.4.6-C allows directional signs of 8 square feet. The Appearance
Commission would like this reduced to 6 square feet.
5. In section 7.4.6-D, it was agreed that wording should be added putting a
one foot height limit on canopy signs.
6. Section 7.4.6-F currently allows the listing of all shopping center tenants
on the ground sign. It was agreed that this should be limited to major
tenants only.
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7. Section 7.4.6-E states that special requests for temporary window signs
should be reviewed by a "Board". It was agreed that this "Board" should
be the Appearance Commission. The ordinance should be worded as such.
8. Section 7.4.6-H mentions special event signs. It was agreed that these
signs should be defined in the definition section.
. 9. Section 7.4.6-I deals with residential signs. It states that residential
signs shall not exceed ten square feet in area. The Appearance Commission
was concerned that a series of 10 square foot signs could be allowed. Brim/
Braun Associates explained that this referred to total signage combined;
it would not allow a series of such signs. Wording should be added to
• further clarify this point. It was also agreed that a section should be
added on construction signs.
• 10. The Appearance Commission was concerned that section 7.4.6-J did not restrict
neon signs. Brim/Braun Associates agreed that verbage should be added re-
stricting signs with exposed neon tubes.
11. In section 7.4.7-A, the Appearance Commission questioned the purpose of the
definition of miscellaneous structures. Brim/Braun explained that this was
to give the developer an indication of the types of miscellaneous structures
which are consistent with the town center goals and policies, and it also
gives the Village a basis for review. It was agreed to leave this as written.
12. The Appearance Commission was concerned that the ordinance did no require
plant material to be reviewed by the Village Forester. It was pointed out
that this was required under section 7.4.3-E. The Commission was also con-
- •cerned that section 7.4.8-H allowed a 90 day replacement period for dead
planting. They felt that this time period was too lengthy in that it span-
ned the better part of an entire planting season. It was agreed that wording
should be changed to state that if planting conditions permit, it should be
replaced within 30 days, however, in no event longer than 90 days.
13. The final point was that the Appearance Commission felt that they should
• be the body to review signage in the Town Center. It was pointed out that
our goal was to have Brim/Braun Associates do the review of the entire
center in order to provide consistency .throughout the entire development
and also to reduce the number of reviews a developer would need to be subject
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B-5 TOWN CENTER-ORDINANCE
November 9, 1979
Page 3
to. By reducing this time constraint, it could help attract developers
to the center. The Commission agreed with this,_ however, they felt
that when a development is considered they would like to have a work-
- shop with staff only so that they can have their ideas considered in
the review of the development.
Although there are revisions to the ordinance which need to be made
pursuant to the 13. points, I feel that we are now at a point ►were we can
finalize the appearance criteria to everyone's satisfaction.
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JAMES TR ESDELL
Staff Planner
JT/ps
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. . cc William Balling •
Robert Katz
Donald Hardt