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1979-11-08 - Appearance Commission - Minutes APPEARANCE COMMISSION VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVE, IL. THURS. , NOV. 8, 1979 WORKSHOP A Workshop relative to the B5• Proposed recommendation regarding the Town Center was. held before the regular Appearance. Commission meeting on Thursday, Nov. 8, 19?9. Com. Kirby acted as Chairman in the ab- sence of Don Hardt. The Workshop began at 7:10 P.M. James Truesdell - Plan Commission; and Robert N. Katz and Jerry Brim of Brim/Braun Associates discussed the problem areas outlined in the Oct. 9, 1979 letter from D. L. Hardt. A copy of Mr. Truesdell's consensus report is attached. In conclusion, the Commission asked to be represented on the Town Center Board. Also, the revised copy of the Ordinance is to be reviewed by the Appearance Commission at another Workshop when Brim/ Braun can be represented. 1. CALL TO ORDER At 8:08 P.M. the official meeting of the Appearance Commission was called to order by Com. Kirby. 2. ROLL CALL Commissioners Present: Lou Paolillo, Dana Knaak, L. Gibbs, Michael Holland, L. Kirby (Acting Ch. ) Commissioners Absent: Don Hardt (Chairman) Building Department Representative Present: James D. Griffin 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Sept. 27, 1979 - Motion to approve made by Com. Gibbs; seconded by Com. Knaak. Approved unanimously. Oct. 11, 1979 - Motion to approve made by Com. Knaak;• seconded by Com. Gibbs. ..Approved. ..(L... Paolillo abstained. Oct. 25, 1979 - No meeting due to lack of quorum. 4. BUSINESS a) Buffalo Grove T.V. - Wm. Steinkoff - Sign Change Mr. Steinkoff explained that the original sign was vandalized and that the new Zenith panel was ordered to replace the Anthony's T.V. . section of the sign. Ch. Kirby explained Sec. 10.1 (c) of the Sign Code, Loss e Non-Conforming Status. When a sign is changed it must come to the AC for review. Under the Ordinance, only idenitifica- tions are allowed; no advertising of Zenith or RCA. If the ti broken panel is replaced with Anthony's TV it would be OK. Or; a variance could be requested from the ZBA, but it is not likely- that the advertising would be allowed. Mr. Steinkoff asked if he could remove the whole top and put up a Buffalo Grove TV sign. The AC agreed to this and asked that a copy of the new sign be submitted within 60 days and be installed as soon as pos- sible after approval. b) Arbors - Al Davis - Temporary Sign on Dundee Road Mr. Davis said he thought the sign company has submitted the sign before it was erected. He explained that Al Frank had originally obtained a variation from the Village to put up the Oak Creek sign. The new sign has been moved 8 ft. out toward Dundee Road so that is more visable to the traffic. (Two large trees block the view from the East and West; and the cost of moving them is too high. ) The sign would be left up only until the units are sold, perhaps fall of 1980 but the mortgage market is not good. Ch. Kirby excused herself and appointed Com. Knaak Chairman: A site plan was presented and possible alternate locations were discussed. To meet the Code it would have to be 10 ft. from the lot line but it would not be seen from there. It is now 5-7 ft. over the line. Ch. Knaak said the sign could be reviewed for appearance,' but . a ZBA variance would be needed. The sign is Chocolate/green trees with white lettering. It is 8'x 16' or 128 sq. ft. This would require another ZBA variance. Also, Mr. Davis was instructed to come in first if any other changes are made. Mr. Davis stated it would not be changed, and described the permanent signage on the fence. Qom. Gibbs made the following motion: I move we accept the sign for the. Arbors as presented, for appearance, colors being brown, green and white as indicated on the drawing; being a temporary sign - time period not to exceed one year. If units are sold sooner, it is to be removed. The motion is predicated upon the approval of the ZBA variance of size and location of the sign. Com. Paolillo seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Holland, Paolillo, Gibbs and Knaak Nay - None Motion Passed. (Com. Kirby did not vote.) Com. Kirby returned to Chair the meeting. APPEARANCE COMMISSION Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Two c) Cambridge On The Lake - Al Swanson - Sign Change Mr. Swanson apologized for not having the "Models Now Open" portion of the sign approved before attaching it to the sign. He presented a different design to rectify the violation. The new copy will be painted on. Also, Mr.. Swanson asked that the directional arrow on the small 3' x 5' sign just inside the gates be reversed. Com. Gibbs made the following motion: I move we approve the request to move the arrow direction on the sign as presented; and also move we accept the "Models Now Open" as an addition to the sign now in existance, letters and colors as presented in the sketch. Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Paolillo, Knaak, Holland, Gibbs and Kirby Nay - None Motion Passed, Unanimously. d) Anderi - Jerry De Grazia - Parkway Trees Mr. De Grazia presented the Landscape Plan and named the Parkway Trees: Green Ash - dominant 43% Norway Maple ) Linden These three to be Locust equally distributed, 20% each. Mr. Paige has been consulted and his report will be completed next Tuesday (Nov. 13, 1979) . Some Green Ash trees are al- ready planted, but the remaining trees will be planted in any way the AC and the Forester prefers. They will comply with the Village Forester's report. Ch. Kirby asked that trees less than 2-1/2 inches be staked. Location of trees shall be subject to thePublic Works Dept. The number of trees dipicted shall be planted with the same. density as submitted. Requested trees be balled/burlaped.. Com. Holland made the followinguntion: I move we approve the Street Trees for Anden Corp. , Northwoods Subdivision as presented; with the following stipulations: 1 - Trees less than 2-1/2 inch caliper must be staked; 2 - All trees to be balled and burlaped. 3 -Species of trees and locations of trees be subject to the Village Forester; 4 - Number of trees to be as submitted exactly. Com. Gibbs seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Paolillo, Knaak, Gibbs, Holland and Kirby. Nay - None Motion Passed, Unanimously. ' APPEARANCE COMMISSION Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Three • . l' e) Hidden Lakes - Model Landscaping, Signs, Lighting Dearborn Development - Sonny La Brandt, Mr. Hyman (Arch. ) La Haie Landscaping - Bob La Haie Bruce Johnson & Assoc. - Tom Pitman Mr. Hyman presented the architectural materials for the six 8 unit condominium buildings.. Colors displayed. Soffit and Facia trim - #712 Olympic stain. Siding - Boise cascade - #918 Olympic Stain ,. . Common Brick - Beige -Brown. Exterior lighting - Antique Bronze as presented or similar. Com. Paolillo made the following motion: I move we accept the materials for Hidden Lakes as presented with the stipulation that the light fixtures are subject to change but the selection is to be similar quality and design, or equal with the approval of the Village administrator. Materials to be as stated in the minutes. Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Knaak, Gibbs, Holland,Paolillo and Kirby Nay - None Motion Passed Unanimously. Signage - Cut timbers of varing heights for posts. The lettering is flat white, background #712 - olympic below grade - creosote. stain. . A small temporary sign was requested at the entrance to the model area and a larger permanent sign will be constructed on an island at the main entrance. Maintenance of the Island sign was discussed and it will be up to the Homeowner's Assn. to accept responsibility of it. This will be written into the contract. It is 27 sq. ft. and it should weather well so maintenance would be minimal. The base will be. well landscaped. No lights. A Site Plan was discussed. A is a small version of the Island sign. B,D,E - Information Center signs directing people to parking then to models and •sales center. - 3 x 6 ft. F,G,H, - Model Signs - 3 x 3 ft. Model area will be lit but no lights on signs. Com. Holland made the following motion: I move we accept the signage for Hidden Lakes Dev. - as presented, with the following stipulations: a) Permanent sign on Busch Rd. to be erected on the Island Entrance be landscaped at the base and maintained by the ub-division APPEARANCE COMMISSION Nov. 8, 19?9 - Page Four • R Association upon the deeding of the land, or be removed. b) That Sign designated "A-"_ be considered a temporary sign, and be removed at the completion of the sales of the sub-division. ". Permit to be issued for a •period of 1 year, and renewed each six months thereafter if the sign is well maintained. Com. Paolillo seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye == Gibbs, Knaak, Paolillo, Holland and Kirby Nay - None Motion Passed Unanimously. • Lighting and Fencing The Fence is to be a split rail (2 rail) type used to route traffic to the model area and prevent traffic into the con- struction area. All fences that cross roadway will be on platforms so they will not damage asphalt on road . Lighting- Post lights 5 ft. high with two globes. A total of 7 lights which will provide a wash effect for the park- ing and walking area. Cedar posts to complement dev. color. Ground quartz lights will be screened and will not interfere with residential^areas. Lighting on the temporary ground sign was, discussed at length. Since no other construction signs in B. G. have been allowed lighting Com. Knaak and Com. Holland did not wish to have them. Other Commissioners felt this was a low sign, not large bill- board type and should be given lights on timers for when the sales office is open. Oh. Kirby stated that each sign must be treated individually and setting precedents is not an issue . Com. Gibbs made the following motion: (Sign A- not included. ) I move we approve the lighting as presented by Hidden Lakes as presented; including fences on plans, S - All 5'post lights and quartz floodlights as indicated on the drawing; 2 - Floodlights not to cause any problems to homeowners situated behind the signs. Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Paolillo, Knaak, Holland, Gibbs and Kirby Nay - None Motion Passed Unanimously. APPEARANCE COMMISSION Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Five • Com. Knaak made a motion that no lighting shall be on Sign A- 5 x 4 ft. as indicated as the Hidden Lakes identification sign. Com. Gibbs seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Paolillo, Gibbs and• Knaak Nay - Holland and Kirby Mr. Griffin th®nght a 4 vote is necessary for a decision. Therefore, the motion is automatically tabled until the next meeting, but the developer does not need to appear. If 3 votes re sufficient then the Motion is passed to deny lights on he temporary sign and can be appealed to the Village Board. Temporary Sales Trailer The drawing of the trailer was presented and discussed. It will face the development with the back to Busch Rd. The front will be landscaped and the facade of the front of the trailer is paneled with the same siding as the models. It will be used as a Sales Office until the models are ready in approximately six months, but this time can be extended. A sign on the front measures 4' x 16' - with the hours and phone number below. If the phone number is changed it is to be repainted (not attached in any way. ) Lighting will be along the walkway but no flood fights. Since the rear of the the trailer faces Busch Road and it is not attractive, even with the proposed birm, the AC ask- that both sides be sided with the wood paneling. Com. Holland made the following motion: I move we accept the treatment of the Hidden Lakes Sales Trailer as depicted, with these stipulations: a) The front side faces south away from Busch Road. b) The rear, facing Busch Rd. , be sided as shown for the front of the trailer. • c) Landscaping treatment for the front be as depicted. Com. Knaak seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken: Aye - Paolillo, Gibbs, Knaak, Holland and Kirby Nay - None Motion Passed. Landscaping • Mr. Bob La Haie presented the Landscape Plan showing the overall drawing of the entire project, but only landscaping for the Model Area will be completed for the opening. A complete plan will be submitted at a later date. The area at the East side is being left open for visibility. APPEARANCE COMMISSION Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Six j A . Large sized trees are being used. The Island around the parking area is sodded. Probably bark mulch will be used. Since a Forester' s report is not available a question arose over the use of Silver Maples, but the developer will follow the suggestions given by Mr. Paige. Com. Knaak made the following motion: I move we approve the Hidden Lakes landscaping of . the Model area as presented with the stipulation that the Forester' s review is followed. Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Paolillo, Gibbs, Holland, Knaak and Kirby Nay - None Motion Passed, Unanimously. 5. ANNOUNCEMENTS Mr. James Griffin reported that Mr. Bob Bogart has requested an amendment to the Sign Code to allow off-site signs for house sales because of the depressed market. • Pres. Clayton asked that the AC discuss the matter. Ch. Kirby was present at the Board meeting, as well as ZBA Chairman R. Heinrich, but because of the pressure of time, no discussion was heard. Ch. Kirby stated that if people are allowed to put signs on the right-of-way for any reason, others can also claim hardship also. The rest of the AC agreed and made the following statement to the Village Board: • It is the feeling of the Appearance Commission that the Sign Ordinance regarding `:For Sale" signs for - residential premises should remain as it is written. Regarding the letter Mr. Lou Shassian wrote concerning the house with the green roof, the AC agreed that he should come back for approval. Mark Drugs has resolved the Pylon Sign problem by establishing a Mark Family Drugs office. . This was agreeable to the AC. 6. ADJOURNMENT A motion to adjourn was made at 10:20 P.M. by Com. Holland, seconded by Com. Gibbs. Meeting adjourned by unanimous vote. Res ectfully submitted, Shirley Ba s, Secretary APPEARANCE COMMISSION Nov. 8, 1979 - Page Seven • • sb - IS S ' 1 TO: .Pres. Verna Clayton and Village Board FROM: Appearance Commission SUBJECT: Off-Premise "For Sale" Signs DATE: Nov. 15, 1979 It is the feeling of the Appearance Commission that the Sign Ordinance regarding "For Sale" signs for residential premises should remain as it is written. /9 L. Kirby, Ac g Chairman • sb 6. I • 672 • TO: William R. Sommer FROM: James Truesdell DATE: November 9, 1979 • SUBJECT: B-5 TOWN CENTER ORDINANCE - RESOLUTION OF DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE APPEARANCE COMMISSION AND BRIM/BRAUN ASSOCIATES At the November 8, 1979 Appearance Commission meeting, the Commission members, Brim/Braun Associates and I met to resolve the discrepancies which existed .in the appearance criteria of the proposed B-5 Ordinance. Basically, there were thirteen (13) issues to be resolved, I am happy to say that all points were thoroughly discussed and all problems were allev- iated to everyone's satisfaction. Below, I have listed the thirteen points and described how they will be resolved. • 1. In the August 7, 1979 draft ordinance, section 7.3.1-I allowed for signs on a building to be attached to one or more facades. This was in conflict with section 7.4.6-A which allowed only one wall sign per occupancy. The October 3, 1979 public hearing draft excluded section 7.3.1-I. It was the opinion of Brim/Braun Associates that multi-facade signs should be allowed in cases where buildings have double frontage or there are corner occupan- cies. • The Appearance Commission has agreed that in certain cases multi-facade signage should be allowed. However, since these would be special cases, they should be only allowed as a variati-on to the ordinance. Therefore wording needs to be added to the ordinance explaining that this situation would need a variance and also an explanation of the procedure for allow- ing this variance. • 2. It is agreed by both parties that a definition section, similar to that in our current sign code, needs to be added with some modifications in order to tailor the definitions specifically to the B-5 Ordinance. 3. Section 7.4.6-B allows for ground or free standing signs for any user with a 75 foot frontage. The current sign code only allows these signs at 500 foot intervals. The point was made by Brim/Braun Associates that a multi- tenant building would need to submit a sign package in which the entire center would only be allowed one ground sign, not each individual occupancy. Wording can be added the ordinance specifically clarifying this situation. It was also pointed out that since the minimum lot size is 5 acres, there will be very• few signs of this nature. The Appearance Commission agreed, however, they were still uncomfortable with the 75 feet figure and felt this should be increased. No specific recommendation was made at the meeting as to what the revised figure should be. • In the same section of the ordinance, ground signs could be allowed a max- imum height of 25 feet. The Appearance Commission would like this reduced to 20 feet. • -1- • B-5 TOWN CENTER ORDINANCE • November 9, 1979 • Page 2 • 4. Section 7.4.6-C allows directional signs of 8 square feet. The Appearance Commission would like this reduced to 6 square feet. 5. In section 7.4.6-D, it was agreed that wording should be added putting a one foot height limit on canopy signs. 6. Section 7.4.6-F currently allows the listing of all shopping center tenants on the ground sign. It was agreed that this should be limited to major tenants only. • 7. Section 7.4.6-E states that special requests for temporary window signs should be reviewed by a "Board". It was agreed that this "Board" should be the Appearance Commission. The ordinance should be worded as such. 8. Section 7.4.6-H mentions special event signs. It was agreed that these signs should be defined in the definition section. . 9. Section 7.4.6-I deals with residential signs. It states that residential signs shall not exceed ten square feet in area. The Appearance Commission was concerned that a series of 10 square foot signs could be allowed. Brim/ Braun Associates explained that this referred to total signage combined; it would not allow a series of such signs. Wording should be added to • further clarify this point. It was also agreed that a section should be added on construction signs. • 10. The Appearance Commission was concerned that section 7.4.6-J did not restrict neon signs. Brim/Braun Associates agreed that verbage should be added re- stricting signs with exposed neon tubes. 11. In section 7.4.7-A, the Appearance Commission questioned the purpose of the definition of miscellaneous structures. Brim/Braun explained that this was to give the developer an indication of the types of miscellaneous structures which are consistent with the town center goals and policies, and it also gives the Village a basis for review. It was agreed to leave this as written. 12. The Appearance Commission was concerned that the ordinance did no require plant material to be reviewed by the Village Forester. It was pointed out that this was required under section 7.4.3-E. The Commission was also con- - •cerned that section 7.4.8-H allowed a 90 day replacement period for dead planting. They felt that this time period was too lengthy in that it span- ned the better part of an entire planting season. It was agreed that wording should be changed to state that if planting conditions permit, it should be replaced within 30 days, however, in no event longer than 90 days. 13. The final point was that the Appearance Commission felt that they should • be the body to review signage in the Town Center. It was pointed out that our goal was to have Brim/Braun Associates do the review of the entire center in order to provide consistency .throughout the entire development and also to reduce the number of reviews a developer would need to be subject • B-5 TOWN CENTER-ORDINANCE November 9, 1979 Page 3 to. By reducing this time constraint, it could help attract developers to the center. The Commission agreed with this,_ however, they felt that when a development is considered they would like to have a work- - shop with staff only so that they can have their ideas considered in the review of the development. Although there are revisions to the ordinance which need to be made pursuant to the 13. points, I feel that we are now at a point ►were we can finalize the appearance criteria to everyone's satisfaction. • JAMES TR ESDELL Staff Planner JT/ps • . . cc William Balling • Robert Katz Donald Hardt