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1979-07-26 - Appearance Commission - Minutes • • 6224z141, APPEARANCE COMMISSION • VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GRUVv IL. TIIURS. , JULY 26, 1979 • 1. CALL TO ORDER • Chairman Don Hardt called the meeting to order at 7:34 P.M. at the Village Hall on Thurs. , July 26, 1979. 2. ROLL CALL • Commissioners Present: Lorraine Kirby, L. Gibbs, D. Knaak, L. Paolillo, G. Weiss and D. Hardt Commissioners Absent: ; M. Holland - - - - QUORUM PRESENT . Also present: Mr. Jim Griffin, New Asst. Building and Zoning Administrator .- 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES July 12, 1979 - P. 2, Paragraph 3 of #5 regarding Skylights - typo "drawing" - also Mr. Gibbs commented that he had visited the site of the Rolling Meadows branch and the Skylights are visible. He asked that careful inspection be made when the B. G. facility is constructed because the AC did not okay them to be seen. • P. 3 - Recommendations, Uptown Federal • d) # 618; f) Pink Antique Con. Gibbs made a motion to approve the minutes of 7/12/79 as amended. Com. Knaak seconded and roll was called, as follows: Aye - Kirby, Knaak, Paolillo , Gibbs and Weiss. Abstain - Hardt. Minutes 7/12/79 approved. June 28, 1979 - Executive Office Center Sign - Sections of- Sign Code applicable on P. 50, Sec. 11.2 and P. 28 • 5.1 (f) . Zoning District B-3. Com. Kirby made a motion to approve. Com. Knaak seconded. Roll was called as follows: Aye - Knaak, Gibbs, Kirby and Hardt. • Abstain - Paolillo and Weiss. Minutes 6/28/79 Approved. • Chairman Hardt introduced Mr. Jim Griffin to the Commission and welcomed him as liaison to the Building Dent. He will also be liaison to the ZBA and will be the •Administrator of the Sign Code. He was encouraged to observe the working of the AC and make any suggestions that would upgrade its performance. : He was also in- Lormed that he should feel free to make comments regarding the discussion at the meetings. As a matter of information, Mr. Burt Harris explained that the land for the Bank of B. G. and Office Center was zoned 3-3 origin- . ally. A Seven-Eleven and a gas station were to be built but the land was sold and it was not nebessary to request re-zoning. $-3 is Planned Business . • 4. , OLD BUSINESS a) OOf -Premise Sign - Uptown Federal Representatives will present this sign on Aug. 9, 1979 . 5. NEW BUSINESS a) Bank of Buffalo Grove - Pylon Sign Mr. Burton Harris distributed an alternate drawing of the sign they wish to erect. The design is similar but the time-temp. is different. Mr. Harris indicated on the Site Plan the two planned entrances. One on Lake-Cook Rd. and the second on Arlington Heights Rd. He indicated that the "walls were previously approved before they were designed. The site for the Pylon Sign is at the corner of Lake-Cook Rd. and Arlington Hts. Rd. Same as Bank of B.G. on Dundee. The colors of the sign are Brown lettering on White back-.. ground, posts also white. The time-temp. operates by means of "flippers" - little squares which are black and yellow, changing- -to form numbers. The time-temp. will be lit from above .with florescent tubes which are less expensive and con- sume less energy; also is more indirect ultra-violet light. The height Of the sign is 20' to the top and is about 11' off the ground. The size of the time-temp. numbers is 16 inches. The discussion revealed that to meet the reouirements of the Sign Code : Square footage, height (measured from curb) and use of the light on top, and including all embellishments; the sign will need a variation from the ZBA before the AC can consider the aesthetics and make a recommendation. Mr. Harris commented that to reasure from the top of the curb would present a problem because they are on a very high grade, making the sign so low that there would be a vandelism pro- blem. They can Probably meet the area reouirements by reduc- ing the lettering, etc. but the bottom of the time-temp. is to be above reach of any one who would bother the sign. Entrance Walls - Chairman Hardt asked Mr. Harris if he was aware that in fact they were requesting five (5) ground signs? Each pier would be a sign, totalling four (4) plus pylon. Since they are not requesting any facia signs, an because Mr. Harris explained that according to the way he interprets the Sign Ord. he feels that they have enough total frontage to have two ground signs. ' Chairman Hardt gave the intended concept of the Sign Code and the reasons for defining- "Developed Parcel" to include one or more business activities so that pylon signs would be limited. Two ground signs would be allowed - not five. Mr. Harris described their efforts to present an attractive sign that is low, and unobstructive to traffic or homeowners. The only identification they are requesting in on the .piers, and the pylon for the Bank itself. • • APPEARANCE COMMISSION July 26, 1979 - Page Two. Ch. Hardt repeated that they understood , but that since the AC operates under the Sign Code they do not have the authority to do anything tonight. The ZBA must make a decision. Oh. Hardt asked 1) Were the walls discussed in the minutes previously? Coo. Knaak had copies of the 7/27/78 minutes and it was noted that the only discussion recorded concerning the walls • was that the brick would match exactly. pnly the words "entrance wall" was shown on the landscaping plans, no design. • 2) A straw poll was requested to ascertain the feelings of the Commissioners concerning accepting the piers with signage as presented; considering that under B-3 parcels, the Bank which is located on the corner would normally be entitled to two (2) facia signs and one (1) sign on the ground. Also the Office Building, would be entitled to a facia sign and a ground sign - Totalling five(5) signs. • prom an aesthetic standpoint facia signs might not be appro- priate for this type of development. Should the AC give the ZBA a recommendation at this time:- Gene Weiss: I prefer this to wall signs from an aesthetic • . point of view. lou Paolillo: Asked about size of letters and lighting? Mr: Harris did not know the size of the lettering but he did say the piers would be front lit with flood lights. Mr. Paolillo did not comment at this time. later he said he would _prefer the low ground signs to wall signs. Bud Gibbs: Asked what the letters were ma-3.e o-f? Answer: Either white plastic or enameled metal . . He is opposed to lettering on the walls. Lorraine Kirby: Does not recall ever seeing the walls be- - . fore and would not have approved any land- scaping without knowing about the walls. She feels opposed because of possible future • vsndelism. Mr. Harris answered that the letters would be fastened securely into the bricks and they would be maintained. They anticipate a pro- blem with the lights which could be eliminated. Ms. Kirby said she would include a stipulation if the walls were approved, to the effect that facia signs would not be given at a later date. Asking for five(5) ground signs would set a precedent and care must be taken. Also, the distance factor between ground signs would be violated considering each pier as a separate sign. Bud Gibbs: •Would want to .see the actual sign as it would be. Dana Knaak: Commented later he prefers low walls to pylons. APPEARANCE COMMISSION July 26, 1979 - Page Three • Chairman Hardt said the only thing the AC can do tonight is approve the architectural format of the wall and their • location on the property; specifically excluding any agreement by the AC of the intent of -putting identification signage on the walls. According to the Sign Code , prior to any review of signage on the walls, a variance must be granted. The straw poll indicated that the Commissioners were split on their views. Considering the architectural concept of the walls it was determined that the height is to be 7.6 inches and this is also in violation. Mr. Griffin stated the Fence Ordinance allows only 3 ft. ornamental fences and this too would need . a variance. Property on a corner has two front yards. Mr. Harris' assistant commented that much discussion has taken place concerning the temporary construction sign and a neighbor is unhappy because it is offensive from his rear yard. Since the piers would be low they would not be- seen by residents, and the lighting would not be as offensive as a pylon or other signage on the building. Mr. Harris commented that s>on the shrubbery around the edge . of the property line would soon be higher than the piers. Chairman- Hardt concluded the discussion by stating that the AC can-do nothing more tonight. Definitely, variance of the size of the Pylon, a variation for the signage and a clari- fication of the fence requirements, will be needed. The general discussion continued, the intent of the Sign Code was stated and needed variations are as follows: a) Pylon Sign - Size and height need variance. Embellishment (light) must be approved by the AC. If si zee is . changed, no variation needed. b) ,Signage on Piers - Considered as 4 ground signs and if names are on both sides there • would be a proximity problem;• (Could have one low long wall as an alternative. ) c) Height of walls would need variation; and • a clarification is needed also. • Motion to table was made by Com. Knaak and seconded by Com. Gibbs. Roll call vote was taken. Motion to Table was Aye Unanimouslys for both Signage and Entrance Walls. Corm. Hardt repeated that the AC is limited in how much they can review before the ZBA has granted variations. The ZBAmeeting will be August 21 , 1979. Mr. Hardt Personally does not want to set a precedence for numerous ground signs, so he will let tne• ZBA made the decision. 6. ANNOUNCEMENTS Ch. Hardt has discussed the Sign Code with Mr. Frank Hruby and it is agreed that there is an urgent need to review it care- fully and revise portions of it to clarify the intent, etc. A meeting early in August is advisable and the AC will give W. Griffin all the help it can. Errors were discovered to- night in typing as well as footage. The date set was 8/2/79 for a Workshop to get started. • APPEARANCE COMMISSION July 26, 1979 - Page Four Before Mr. Harris left, Ch. Hardt mentioned that he noticed • the Bank of Buffalo Grove at Dundee and BuffaloGrove Rd. just repainted their sign from Grey/White to Brown/White. . This could be a. problem since non-conforming signs must be maintained as they are , or take a chance on losing; their non-conforming status. Mr. Griffin is make an inspection and check to see if a permit was issued. This will be required. - Mr. Griffin presented a drawing of the proposed Buffalo Grove Mall sign and asked if it is OK to use 4 inch letters as second . lines because of numerous letters in Computer Service (Radio Shack) and Women' s Apparel (Lady Marmalade). It was noted that there is possible advertising on the sign and Mr. Griffin was advised to check the DBAs to determine if the legal names are as they appear on the rendition. The signed drawing was not available •to determine what was approved originally on 4/26/79. Com. Kirby made the following motion:- :. I move we deny the requested change of letter size • as presented by Buffalo Grove Mall ' s ground sign • this evening specifically referring: to the 4" let- ters added to Radio Shack and Lady Marmalade. Com. Gibbs seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken. • The Motion- to Deny Passed unanimously. A homeowner close to the temporary sign at the Harris project has made a complaint that it is unsightly to his family and can be seen just at the edge of his yard. . The loc'tion has been checked and it was determined that it . does comply with the Sign Code. Care should be taken by the AC in the future to screen the back of such signs that are near homes. - Ch: Hardt will write a complimentary letter to Dominic Saviano thanking him for his work and service with the AC. - Mr. Griffin outlined his projected schedule regarding Sign Code 'Enforcement. At present he has reviewed the Code and is in the process of making a card file listing all Village signs. He has completed Plaza Verde and the. Mall. Then he will check the files for permits. Cross-check to see who has paid and thc-a set up a schedule on a staggered basis to send notification of fees. He commented, . "Most other Villages do not require a fee for a change of face." But Buffalo Grove does ask that the AC review such changes. The reason for this is to attempt to bring older signs into conformance with the Sign Code. The re-inspection procedure was discussed. Businesses will be notified when the inspection and fee are due. The Village will issue a license which can be hung inside the business, rather than putting it inside the sign since special equipment is • needed to reach the Pylons. APPEARANCE COMMISSION July 26, 1979 - Page Five • Several illegal signs have been noticed around the Village. Since the last meeting, the Lieberman's - Store for Rent sign • has been removed from the parkway. Starck Realty has a sign on the parkway and last weekend at the Strathmore Shopping Plaza the bakery had an Ice-cream cone displayed, but removed it. Some realtors are - once again putting up many Open-House and directional signs on parkways. Does the Village Board want to enforce the Ordinance? The Youth Center has a rough sign attached to the studs. And the Golf Course still has the sign hung over the edge of the roof. This has been a violation for many months. Once again it was noted that the Village should set the example! • 7. ADJOURNMENT Com. Paolillo made a motion to adjourn. . Com. Knaak seconded the motion. All Commissioners: - Aye. Meeting was adjourned at 9:20 P.M. respectfully submitted, Shirley ates, Sec. • Appearance Commission • • • • • • • APPEARANCE COMMISSION • sb • July 26, 1979 - Page Six F .