1979-04-26 - Appearance Commission - Minutes •
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APPEARAi10E COMMISSION67-3
VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVES IL•.
Thurs. , April ..26,1979
1. Call to Order
In the absence of Chairman Don Hardt, Commissioner L. Kirby was
appointed to act as Chairman. The meeting was called to order
at 7:40 P.I .
2. Roll Call
Commissioners present were : Kirby, Knaak, Paolillo and
Holland.
Com. Gibbs arrived at 8:45 P.M.
Chairman Don Hardt was out of town on business.
Also present were: Dominic Saviano, Building Dept. Rep.
Ilene Strauss. and Gene Weiss, Prospective
Greg Boysen, Village Engineer. Commissioners.
QUORUM PRESENT
3. Approval of Minutes
t
Com. Knaak made a motion to accept the minutes as corrected.
(See Note attached. ) Com. Holland seconded the motion.
Roll was cubed and the Minutes for April 12, 1979 were
approved with additions and corrections unanimously.
4. Business
a) Early Learning Center
Arvid Olson, Owner ELC and Mark Mc Kenzie, Land. Arch.
Brad Olsen, Atty. for Homeowners -
Mr. McKenzie presented the plans and gave a ' eneral explan-
ation of the proposed additional landscape treatment of the
South East Corner of the property and along the existing fence,
Ch. Kirby read the comments of the Village Engineer, Greg Boy-
sen regarding to the drainage. A copy of these comments will
be given to Mr. Arvid Olson.
Mr. Brad Olsen said that the Homeowner' s would prefer sod to
be used in the 12 ft. buffer zone instead of the bark .mulch
• previously proposed around the plantings _ on._the East side of
the fence.
The discussion that followed concerned the swale and where the
sod would be placed. Mr. Arvid Olson agreed to sod from -Me/
tree line out to the swale area. The swale will s at
. it gradually returns up to the level of the homeowner s rear
yards. The area from the tree line back to the fence will be
mulched.
Mr. Brad Olsen asked that the Engineering Dept. inspect the
grading and -the swale. This will be taken care of in the proper
procedure that is required by the Village.
Com. Holland made a motion to approve the landscaping plan
submitted by the Early Learning Center with the following
stipulations:
1 - All notations on the Engineering Drawing be
approved and made part of the motion.
2 - Section B on the South side shall be sodded.
3 - Section C on the East side shall be sodded from
the tree line to the property lines of the residents.
4 - Mulch will be used from the tree line on the East
back to the fence.
5 - The precise location and specie of planting be as
• the concept shows on the drawing.
6 - The grade level be as shown on the Engineer' s
drawing.
Com. Knack seconded the motion. Roll call vote was taken.
Motion Passed unanimously.
Mr. Arvid Olson requested a written inspection report when the
swale is put in. Mr. Boysen said there is a form prepared and
will be signed and sent to Mr. Olson.
b) Commons Sign
Mr. Sa:iano asked that this be discussed later in the meeting.
c) Buffalo Grove Mall -Large Pylon Sign, Face Change
Jim Coconas, Kenroy Corp. presented the request to improve
the Buffalo Grove Mall Sign. They plan to rewire and re-
construct the face. Dominick' s and ►aalgreen' s, the princi-
pal tenants will have their standard color and scrip names.
Only the tenants who have stores inside thei'Iall will have
their names on the sign. Letter style is to be Helvetica.
Mr. Coconas proposed a white background for the whole sign.
The top part has been rewired and repaired with special
letters reading Buffalo Grove Mall. He proposed black let-
ters for the six stores in the center of- the sign. On the
bottom two lines, Dominick' s in Orange and Waigreen' s in Red.
Radio Shack has requested their usual lettering.
Plantings will be increased at the base of the sign and some
additional trees will be added along Dundee Road as well
as some shrubs.
After some discussion and planning followi colors were
agreed upon. Background - White, ominick' s - Orange, Wal-
lgreen' s and all other stores - Red. This combination was
considered preferable to the original presentation.
Regarding Radio Shack, Mr. Coconas will inform them that
the Appearance Commissioners favor Helvetica style lettering
for all the stores. If .they wish to come for a variance,
they can do so on their own.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
April 26, 1979 - Page Two
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The frame was discussed. It is baked enamel and if it is
painted it might crack and peel . Mr. Coconas i •
come back if after the complete renovation not acceptable.
The whole .sign will be reinforced with addit su p rts.
'o . .... p p - ; .oi o a .
Con. Paolillo made the following motion:
I move we accept the Pylon Sign presented for the
Buffalo Grove Mall with the following stipulations:
1 - Middle Half - Dominicks in Orange and
Walgreen' s in Red; on White
2 - Lower Half - All inside tenants Red on
White
3 - Lettering for the six tenants will be
six inch Helvetica.
4 - Lower part of the sign is to be reinforced
so that there will be no more problems.
5 - If a tenant vacates - a blank white panal
will be used on the sign.
6 - Mr. Coconas agrees to return to discuss
the frame if the AC so requests
at a later date.
Com. K^°ak seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken.
Motion Passed Unanimously.
Dominick' s - Sign on Arlington Heights Rd.
Mr. Coconas requested a 4' x 40' sign for Dominick' s to be on the
side facing Arlington Heights Rd.
Ch. Kirby determined that according to the Sign Code, Sec. 5.3 (a-b)
a second sign is allowed for stores located on corners. They are
within the prescribed footage allowed; within the 20% requirement.
Mr. Coconas explained their interpretation of the footage compu-
tation and the Commissioners agreed. The letters will be Orange-
Plexiglass , individual type letters, mounted directlyto the
brick with the disconnects on the inside (not visible) .
Com. Knaak made a motion to approve the Dominick' s sign as
proposed for the side facing Arlington Hts. Road with the
• stipulations that the letters be individual lit, mounted
individually to the building, with the electrical disconnects
. for each letter within the letter..as required by the Village
Building Dept. Size .of the sign to be 4' by 40' .
Com. Paolillo seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken.
. Motion Passed Unanimously.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
April 26, 1979 - Page Three
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d) ComcommonsSi� - Temporary construction sign
Ken Middleton
Duo Sign Corp. 94_ E. Dundee Rd.
- Mr. Middleton requested a 2nd sign identical to the sign
Buffalo Grove Rd. to be placed on their . on
pro
pert Mr. Saviano said Mr. Richard HeinrichChrty airman,
Rt.s#h3
• . and had interpreted the Sign Ccde , Sec ZBA
. 11.1,ld to allowanere
identical construction sign to be placed on both "phases. "
Ch. Kirby explained the intent of Sec.developers from advertising ll.l,d was to prevent
one located on said property. °they subdivision except the
Mr. Saviano noted that under Sec. 11.1 the Administrator ma
issue such a permit if the sign meets all requirments. y
Ch. Kirby agreed and instructed the Building Dept. to issue
permit for the Commons Temporary Sign on Rt. #83.
Com. Knaak expressed concern over the problems of interpreting
the Sign Code and asked for a Workshop meeting to discuss the
various troublesome areas that are appea .
Workshop will be May 3, 1979. The ZBAwillgbe requestedrtohe
participate.
A short break was taken.
e) Bonanza - 105 W. Dundee Road
Dennis Camfield, Manager presented the request after explain-
ing that a representative from Federal Signs was unable to
come because of illness. He said that since he is not too
familiar with the exact details but he would explain as best
he could.• He described the change
ing. . The lights pictured will nobenflashing, of the front s
t small
the build-
bulbs. The effect is to be a Colonade. The ledgeistobe
white, with stained glass windows.
The purpose is to better identify the hBonanza store ande facia board isothe
concept is one that is standard with' Bonanza.light bulbs are 11 watt and are meant to reflectThe so thatsthhe
store is seen better. •
•
After some preliminary questions which Mr.
said the
sign co. man could answer more satisfactorily) Ch. Kirby said
she thought it best if the Commissioners
ir
and then Mr. Canfield could come back at aa later ve edateeelinbs
Com. Gibbs said he was not favor of e±posed light bulbs. He
cited the Buffalo Grove Ice Cream Parlor as an example of
similar lights. Not knowing the number of bulbs or the amount
of illumination, it would be hard to say if they would pre-
sent a problem to motorists driving along Dundee Raad. He
thought such advertising is unnecessary and unattractive. He
would like to see a better drawing or a picture.
It was noted that two photos were included in Mr. Hardt' s
packet and were not available.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
April 26, 1979 - Page Four
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Com. Holland asked what rationale there is for this type of
illumination. Is it to offset the other sign presented with
, the reader board.
Mr. Camfield said, "No . The were two separate entities. " The
bonanza International designed- and offered to the managers.
He and Mr. Lawrence Olsen liked the concept and ordered it
before they knew of the -Sign Code. The same fronts have been
installed Chicago and Chicago Hts. , The intent is to light up
the front of the building so they can be seen. There is also
a set-back problem and they are attempting to improve their
identification.
Com. Holland continued his comments, saying that such lights
have a tendancy to burn put here and there. He does not have
a problem with the illumination, because of the low wattage,
but he feels maintainance will become a problem.
Ch. Kirby asked if this is to be considered a sign since a
sign co. is putting it up. • Is it an identification .device?
The feelings of the AC in general is against outlining a build-
in this matter. Flashing lights are forbidden by the Code.
She suggested some type of ground lighting would be just as
effective. She cited Sec. 5.10 - Illumination. Such illumina-
tion should be concentrated in the area of the sign, etc. to
prevent glare. •
Com. Holland said he felt the : best thing to do would be to •
table the request so that in fairness to Mr. Camfield the AC
can examine the entire question more extensively with photos
and proper representation.
Ch. Kirby said that if the AC has very strong objections to the
concept presented, they should say so now so that Mr. Camfield
can seek alternate means of lighting. She feels this request
is completely apart from the first request for signage . She
said she does not believe the whole thing is in keeping with -the
environment we are in. A straw poll was taken as follows:
Would you approve this presentation)after seeing •
pictures and having more information? Do you tend
toward being in favor of the treatment or are you
opposed?
Com. Holland: Not in favor, however would like to
see pictures
Com. Paolillo : Does not like to see buildings out-
. lined in lights, but would like to
see a full presentation
Com. Knaak: Agrees with others, he sees it as a sign,
• and wants to have more 'information
Com. Gibbs: No, also for all the reasons given
Ch. Kirby: No, also feels there would be a maintainence
problem and that would detract in the appear=
• .,ance of the building.
Com. Gibbs moved to table the matter. Com. Paolillo seconded.
Roll Call vote to Table - Aye Unanimously.
APPEARANCE COMLMISSION
April 26, 1979 - Page Five
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Mr.. Camfield repeated his statement that the basic problem is
identification and he asked the Commissioners to give him some
suggestions as to what type of signage they would approve.
He understands that reader boards and exposed light bulbs are
unacceptable , but what would the Commission propose?
Ch. Kirby asked about the set back of the sign and suggested
checking to see whether it could be moved forward. Also the
building could be illuminated with ground lights.
Com. Holland inquired about other Bananza packages that are
available. Perhaps another would be more suitable than the
Colonade effect.
Com. Knaak suggested an off-premise sign directing people to
Buffalo Grove Bonanza.
Com. Paolillo questioned the fact that signage is a problem
because it is true that competition with other family type
eating places is heavy on Dundee Road.
Mr. Camfield stated that customers often say they had not seen
the building. -
It was pointed out that cther restaurants have come in with the
1 same problem of identification asking for larger, brighter
signs when quite possibly it is the s
that is the problem.
Ch. Kirby- suggested signs IN and OUT to direct people ' s at-ten -
tion toward them and this type of sign does not need a permit. •
She assured Mr. Camfield that the AC is not anti-business, but
at the same time it is felt that Buffalo Grove residents will
know where the places to eat are located. How much drive
through business do they expect? •
Mr. Camfield again expressed his desire to co-operate with the
AC and Buffalo Grove. He added that the methods they are pro-
posing have been tried and have proven to attract business.
Sales figures are not yet available on the newer building's, .
but he can say definitely that their sales are now up after
taking over a dying business last year. They now hope _ to
improve their signage as the next step of development. He
thanked the Commission for the hearing.
f) VIP - Face Change to Century 21 - Berth Associates R.E.
Mr. Bob Bogart, Representative (301 Dundee Road)
Mr. Bogart explained that VIP is changing their affiliation
• to Century 21 and requested a change of the existing sign
which is located on the middle panel of the triple signboard.
The sign proposed meets the specifications of the Code,
Colors - Romanhaus, 2418 Brown; 2016 Gold, 7328 White; and
slips into the can that is already there. The sign is in
good repair. •
Com. Knaak brought up the question as to whether the words
Real Estate denoted advertising? The discussion centered
around the use of the term Realtor as being preferable to
Real Estate.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
April 26,1979- Page Six 1
Mr. Bogart explained the term Real Estate denotes• the sale of
property (commercial or residential) and Realtor is the term
used to include many facets of the business.
Com. Gibbs added that a Realtor is the man who meets the codes,
laws and regulations laid -down by the Association for which
he performs. He suggested that the words Real Estate could
be smaller; Century 21 is OK as the Company ID that Berth and
Assoc. is securing. But the name Berth and Associates should
be larger than Real Estate.
Mr. Bogart was agreeable to this change but said he would have
. to get approval to change Real Estate to Realtor. P. 24 of
the SC, Sec. 4.3 a) allows for name and nature of occupancy.
Mr. Bogart said that all VIP are members of the Multiple
Listing and- are almost all realtors.
Ch. Kirby added that the DBA name is important and other AC
members felt that we need to be consistent .
Mr. Bogart said he did not have the power to stipulate or
agree to Realtors. He asked for time to make a phone call.
This was granted. He returned later saying the phone lines
are out of order and asked for a motion which .could later _
. be appealed to the Village Board. He could stipulate to
4" letters saying Real Estate.
Com. Kirby polled the AC as to the words Real Estate? .
A strew poll was taken as follows:
Holland - No Gibbs - Aye
Paolillo - No Kirby - Aye
Knaak - - Opposed .
Ch. Kirby suggested a motion to accept the Berth & Assoc.
sign as presented with the stipulation that the words
• Real Estate be eliminated and the word Realtor be inserted
in 6 inch letters. Berth and Associates will be moved down.
Com. Gibbs so moved and Com. Knaak seconded the motion. .
Roll Call Vote was taken aid the Motion Passed Unanimously.
g) ¶ony of Italy Hair,._ Design •
Mr. Saviano asked the Commission to advise Mr. Tony Boccia con-
cerning his request for a facia sign. He was scheduled to go
to the Village Board on April .22, 1979 and was tabled because
he was undecided. He now feels that a tree in front of his
store is in the line of sight of the sign.
Mr. Boccia explained that the sign - Tony of Italy Hair Design-
(17 / has been approved by the AC and the ZBA, but one of the trees
planted by the Prudential Shopping Center WOuld_block any kind
of sign he might install and heasked that the tree be removed.
He presented a photo showing •the tree which would obstruct traf-
fic coming North on Arlington Heights Rd. from see4Ving his shop.. N Mr. Conrardy (Prudential Realty) has said that he would r
the tree if the Village , or the AC made a decision. remove .
APPEARANCE COIMISSION
April 26, 1979 - Page Seven
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The Commissioners discussed the situation and several
comments were made :
a) Remove the tree and replace with low shrubbery.
b) Relocate the tree. There is not another place
for it.
c) The tree specie was not known. It is true
that some trees are not dense and do .not have
a large crown. Some you can see right through.
d) Prudential must come in and ask for a variation
of $Ze Landscaping Plan.
Mr. Saviano asked that a decision be made so that Mr. Boccia
would be able to make up his mind and let the Village Board
act upon the request for the sign.
It was decided that the Appearance Commission has no power
to change the Landscaping Plan that was approved for Pruden-
tial. Mr. Tom Conrardy would have to come in for a varia-
tion. Tony was advised to inform Dominicby. May 3, 1979
if he wanted to be on the agenda for the 5/7/79 Agenda.
Tony said he would do this and he added that the AC was
causing his business a hardship because he came after speaking
to Mr. Conrardy. Mr. Conrardy told him to ask the AC for
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approval to remove the tree.
' Ch. Kii:uy repeated that the Commission has no authority to
� 464-44.1P- removal of the tree unless Mr. Conrardy Made the
request. The AC cannot set a precedent by acting on such
4):I
a ecause any other business could come in and .e�-,
they don' t like the landscaping, etc.
\ii) Village of Buffalo Grove Street Lights
Mr. Greg Boysen, Village Engineer presented a photo of the
street lights that have been chosen for Arlington Heights Road.
They are quite different from the subdivision street lights.
They will not e set in concrete bases which cause considerable
damage to autos raveling at speeds of 35 MPH. They have been
chosen because hey are attractive , show a uniform amount of
light on the pavement and can be cut off at the right-of-way
so that they do not shine on any houses. He described them as
follows: Metalic, square tapered pole
Steel with baked on enamel
• High pressure - 35 ft. high .
Sodium Bulb with cut off feature
• Glare will be reduced
Circular fixture
In answer to placement, Mr. Boysen said they would be South of
Lake/Cook Road on Arlington Heights Road, on the Buffalo Grove
Road' s East side. The Village of Arlington Heights will light
'their half of the road and the fixtures might not match. What-
ever lights are chosen for Buffalo Grove will be used on all
arterial roads from now on. They will become standard. The
Engineering Dept. is asking the AC for an opinion on the geome-
try of the lights. The finish is open for suggestion. The are
also researching a plastic pole. They prefer the short cross
arm which is about 18 inches. Their consultant will work with
County authorities. APPEARANCE COMMISSION
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Lake County is involved as well as Cook County and the
Engineering Dept. will co-operate with them.
In general the AC preferred matching lights for both B.G. ,
Arlington Hts. , and Long Grove. A copper finish was
suggested for added distinction.
Ch. Kirby summarized the feelings of the Commission and
repeated the desire for uniformity, copper color whether
the baked enaminal or spun aluminum but she added that
if Arlington Hts. . does pot agree then it is alright for
Buffalo Grove to be different. The photo that was presented
was accepted as a good model.
A question came up as to the necessity of having to stock
several different types of bulbs and concern expressed to use
as few different ones as possible.
The Commissioners thanked Mr. Boysen for coming and said it
was good meeting him. He was wished well for his endeavors.
Workshop- cont 'd
Mr. Saviano read a letter from Mr. Balling to Prudential Realty,
citing some action with regard to the fence. Com. Kirby signed
the letter because of a May 1st deadline ; and as Acting Chairman.
Mr. Saviano asked for a letter to be written by the Appearance
Commission to Mary Heimann concerning a complaint about the
condition of the Island at Plaza Verde in front of the Day Care
Center and the Dog Grooming place.
5. Adjournment
Com. Gibbs moved for adjournment at 10:45 P.M. Com. Knaak
seconded the motion. The meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
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Shirley Ba , Secretary
Appearance Commission
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APPEARANCE COMMISSION
April 26, 1979 - Page Nine