1992-09-10 - Appearance Commission - Minutes APPEARANCE COMMISSION
VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVE , ILLINOIS
THURSDAY . SEPTEMBER 10 , 1992
I . CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Eddie Larsen called the meeting to order at 7 : 30 P .M . on
Thursday . September 10 . 1992 at the Village Hall , 50 Raupp Blvd .
II . ROLL CALL
Commissioners Present : F . Weissman , A. Viehman , M. Cea ,
S . Trilling , R. Lundine and E. Larsen
Commissioners Absent : R. Gordon
Bldg . Dept . Liaison: James F . Kelly , Building Inspector
Village Board Liaison: Charles Hendricks . Trustee (For Wm . Reid)
III . APPROVAL OF MINUTES
August 27 , 1992 - Motion to approve as submitted was made by
Com . Viehman and seconded by Com . Weissman.
Roll Call Vote : AYE - Weissman . Viehman , Trilling , Lundine , Larsen
NAY - None
ABSTAIN - Cea
Motion Passed - 5 to 0 . 1 abstention.
Minutes of August 27 , 1992 were approved and will be placed on file .
It was noted that the word RESTAURANT on the Chipper ' s Canopy will
be added in nine inch (9" ) letters . The color will be #611 Cream .
IV , BUSINESS
A. First American Bank . One Bank Lane - Elevation Change
Mr . Robert Hill , Sr . V . P . and Mr . John De Marco , V . P . made the
presentation. Mr . Hill summarized their reasons for adding an
architectural enhancement to the fascia band over the drive-up .
The bank realized that in order to remain competitive in the
consumer market place . their locations would have to be made
more evident to passers-by so they would know banking services
were available to them.
Because there is a wide variety of architecturally styled
buildings , they targeted Buffalo Grove and three (3) other
sites to test the recommendations of their design consultants
before implementing changes at the other sixteen ( 16 )
locations .
A painted #090 aluminum panel (not panaflex) will be applied to
the facia around the drive-up canopy . It will range in color
from the corporate blue blended into the cash station green.
Ch. Larsen said he saw the treatment on their Elston Avenue
location. It caught his eye and looks real nice .
The sign panel will not be relocated ( strike from plan) .
Com. Trilling made a motion to recommend approval of the
facia panel architectural treatment as submitted by the
First American Bank .
Com. Weissman seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote : AYE - Weissman . Viehman . Cea . Trilling .
Lundine and Larsen
NAY - None
Motion Passed - 6 to 0 .
B. Mobil Oil - Additional Lighting at 3 Locations :
1 . 10 West Dundee Road
2 . 1200 West Dundee Road
3 . 1248 Mc Henry Road
Mr . Harry Graffia , Corkill Electric Company . 1645 Carboy Road ,
Arlington Heights , IL 60005 made the presentation. He said
additional lighting for security and safety is being proposed
for all the Mobil service stations in the area .
Low level lights are proposed for better illumination of the
driveways and fourteen foot ( 14 ' ) pole lights will be added
as described and shown on the attached diagrams . One change
was made to the plan for 1248 Mc Henry Road . The 2Y light
shown on the south border should be an L ( low level ) .
There will be no signs attached to the light poles . The low
level lights will be approximately five feet ( 5 ' ) in height .
All standards and fixtures will match the existing lights .
Com . Cea made a motion to recommend approval of the additional
lighting as indicated on the diagrams submitted by the Mobil
Oil Company for 10 West Dundee Road . 1200 W . Dundee Road and
1248 Mc Henry Road , with the stipulation that photometrics are
provided with the permit application.
Com . Lundine seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote : AYE - Weissman . Viehman. Cea , Trilling ,
Lundine and Larsen
NAY - None
Motion Passed - 6 to 0 .
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
September 10 , 1992 - Page Two
C . Woodland Commons - Ground Suns
Com. Lundine excused himself from the discussion because of
possible conflict of interest .
Mrs . Christy Wiegel , Project Engineer for Woodiand Commons . and
Mr . Bud Babbitt , Construction Superintendent , represented Zale
Companies , 100 Lexington Drive , Suite 100 . Buffalo Grove , IL
60089 (537-9191 ) , and Mr . George Woock , White Way Sign Company ,
1317 Clybourn Avenue , Chicago , IL 60610 ( 312/642-6580) was
also present .
The Woodland Commons Ground Signs were recalled for Appearance
Commission review because the Dominick' s tenant panels do not
conform with the design that was approved on Sept . 26 , 1991 .
At that time , Mr . Joseph Cohen of Zale , presented a color
rendering with black metal tenant panels . Dominick ' s was to
have their orange and green logo colors and copy for all the
rest of the tenants was to be ivory .
The signs were constructed with Dominick ' s corporate colors on
a beige background , similar to the "WOODLAND COMMONS top
portion of the sign. and with four (4) black tenant panels .
When the sign was reviewed on August 13 , 1992 , the Appearance
Commission proposed changing all the tenant panels to beige .
The representatives asked for the discussion to be Tabled until
August 27 . 1992 . and then called to ask for a postponement .
Mrs . Wiegel read a prepared statement outlining Zale ' s position
that they honestly believe the color of the Dominick ' s sign
panel change from black to beige had been approved by the
Village . Dominick ' s did not approve of the black sign panel
background and White Way Signs was commissioned to construct
the sign with Dominick' s background color to be beige . Zale
thought the proper permits had been obtained . Mrs . Widgel said
the cost would be approximately $7 . 000 if they were to comply
with the Appearance Commission' s recommendation to change the
tenant panels to beige . Zale is seeking a positive recommen-
dation from the Appearance Commission to the Village Board of
Trustees to keep the sign as it has been constructed and
failing to secure this recommendation. they are prepared to
appeal the decision to the Village Board .
Unfortunately the color change was never submitted to the
Village for approval . Mr . Kelly informed Mrs . Wiegel that the
Building Department does not authorize any color changes
without Appearance Commission approval . The permit application
was submitted with a description of the sign that specifies ALL
tenant panels are to be metal with black enamel finish and
ivory copy . Approved drawings are signed in red and copies are
always given to the developers when the permit is issued .
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
`./ September 10 , 1992 - Page Three
1 During the discussion that followed , Ch. Larsen questioned the
$7 . 000 figure . He suggested applying Stucco-tex paint to the
black panels at a cost of about S90 . 00 per gallon and estimated
that it would take about four ( 4 ) gallons of paint . The copy
color could be easily changed by putting a colored vinyl over
the ivory Plexiglas panels . The colorior colors of the
tenants ' copy would be left to the developer .
Mr . Woock presented a drawing of the sign with overlays showing
all the color combinations . it was the consensus of the
Appearance Commissioners that the sign would look nicer and
have "more class" if it was all the beige color . The black
does not fit on the sign anymore .
Mrs . Wiegel said they could not make any decision for Zale .
Com. Weissman made the following motion:
I move we recommend to the Village Board that the
Woodland Commons sign be put back to its originally
approved condition , or the black panels be converted
to the stucco color , to match the Dominick ' s portion.
with routed out letters with colored copy .
Com. Trilling seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote : AYE - Weissman , Viehman , Trilling , Larsen
NAY - None
ABSTAIN - Cea
Motion Passed - 4 to 0 . 1 abstention .
V . ANNOUNCEMENTS
None .
VI . ADJOURNMENT
Com . Cea made a motion to adjourn.
Ch. Larsen adjourned the meeting at 8 : 12 P . M.
Respectfully submitted .
Shirley Bates
Recording Secretary
sb
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
September 10 . 1992 - Page Four
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPT OF SEPTEMBER 10 , 1992
C . Woodland Commons - Ground Signs
Mrs . Christy Wiegei . Project Engineer for Woodland Commons . and
Mr . Bud Babbitt , Construction Superintendent , represented Zale
Companies , 100 Lexington Drive . Suite 100 . Buffalo Grove . IL
60089 (537-9191 ) . Mr . George Woock , White Way Sign Company ,
1317 Clybourn Avenue . Chicago . IL 60610 (312/642-6580) was
also present .
Com. Lundine excused himself from the discussion because of
possible conflict of interest .
Mrs . Wiegel read the following prepared statement :
"We appreciate the stay that was granted to us at the last
Appearance Committee meeting . August 13 . 1992 . That stay
allowed us to further search our files for documentation
and contact all the concerned parties regarding how we
should proceed with the Dominick ' s pylon issue . Our
conclusions are as follows :
First . we do not think that we did anything wrong in
changing the Dominick ' s panel . We honestly believed
at that time that White Way obtained whatever permit
was necessary to make the change .
Second . we are unable to locate the full colored
rendering that was presented at last September ' s
hearing . I was not at the meeting that evening .
I do not have anything to go on except the minutes
which are a little bit ambiguous . One sentence says
that ail tenant panels are to be black . and later in
the minutes , it says all tenant panels are to be
cream .
Everyone that we have spoken to like our pylons the way
they are . We have gotten competitive bids to alter the
pylons , per Mr . Larsen ' s August recommendation. To
change the lower panels to beige would require a Plexiglas
color change that would drastically alter the beige and
cream theme which serves as a monochrome background with
the Dominick ' s orange and green logo . With beige panels ,
black copy would be fine for daytime viewing , but as Mr .
Larsen pointed out , would not be readable at night . We do
not want to use a rainbow of colors that could match
corporate logos but would not be in keeping with the color
scheme of our project . With Dominick ' s dictating orange
and green , our complimentary colors would be severely
limited . And quite frankly . we don' t want to spend $7 , 000
altering what ' s an already pleasing acceptable color
\../ scheme .
Woodland Commons - Page 2 .
Finally , we recognize that the Appearance Committee is
only a recommending body to the Village Board of Trustees .
Tonight . we would ask that you make a positive recommenda-
tion to the Board of Trustees on our behalf . Failing to
secure that , recommendation from you we are prepared to
direct a plea on this issue to the Village Board of
Trustees . Thank you . "
Ch. Larsen asked Mrs . Wiegel about the loss of the colored
rendering that was originally submitted at the Sept . 26 . 1991
AC meeting and if the Building Department had a copy of it?
(There was only one copy and Mr . Joseph Cohen of Zale took it
with him . The tape of the meeting is available . sb)
Ch. Larsen asked if by ' it " being lost meant that nobody
remembers what it was supposed to be?
Mrs . Wiegel responded , "That ' s correct . Sir . `
Ch. Larsen said he and some of the AC members remember what it
appeared to be . He questioned the cost figure of S7 . 000 and
said all that would need to be done to the Plexiglas panels
would be to put a colored vinyl over them and put them back in
place . They would not have to have new panels . If you put red
over ivory , it reads red . He asked Mr . Woock to verify this .
Mr . Woock replied that you cant very well put ivory over the
black .
Ch. Larsen explained the procedure : Pull the Plexiglas panels
back out . They are fastened behind the aluminum routed out
spaces , put a piece of vinyl on them or spray them , what- ever
you wanted to do . You can use ivory just like white in that
use and then paint the can the matching color of the box .
Ch. Larsen said he was not quoting the job . but he questioned
whether it would cost as much as was quoted and primarily there
is only one other tenant . Ace Hardware , on all the signs . He
would not be able to give a favorable recommendation, but was
open to the vote of the Commission and would not be dictatorial
in any way. He asked for other comments . There are new
commissioners and one has recused himself , so there may be
other opinions .
With reference to the August 13 , 1992 AC minutes . it was noted
that White Way submitted a colored rendering of the original
sign with an overlay showing the existing sign.
Woodland Commons - Page 3 .
Mr . Woock said that the last time this was discussed he had a
�./ new drawing . He presented a drawing of the sign as it appears
and used an overlay to depict the original submission. He said
Dominick ' s feels very strongly that orange on black does not
read very well . . . .we all know that . He used another overlay
depicting the sign as the AC recommended with all ivory
panels .
Ch. Larsen recalled that the original intent was for Woodland
Commons to have a different treatment . It has 3 - 4 inch
reverse channel black letters standing off from the background
that illuminate that part of the sign at night . The rest of
the letters were to be backlit and project out through the face
at night so that all that was seen was the menu-board of
letters . In daytime . they would be ivory on a black field .
Mr . Kelly quoted from Mrs . Wiegel ' s letter . dated May 13 , 1992 :
It states that she " sought Dominick ' s approval from
Dominick ' s for the black face with logo colors and Mr .
Carpman . Supervising Architect at Dominick ' s requested two
(2) alternatives , of which the cream background with logo
colors seemed the most appropriate . We subsequently
changed the color scheme on our permit request , again
through Whiteway .
Mr . Kelly informed Mrs . Wiegel that the Building Department
does not a permit change of colors by request .
Mrs . Wiegel said that as part of the permit request they had to
submit construction drawings and they had to submit the
graphics . White Way did the graphics with colors for us in
October 1991 . When they realized that Dominick ' s hadn ' t
approved the color scheme . they went in for a color change on
November 4 and November 5 . The permit was issued Nov. C . 1991 .
This was done by Kevin Flannery from White Way .
Mr . Kelly repeated his statement that the permit would not have
been issued with a change of color without Appearance Commis-
sion approval . Dominick ' s may have approved the change , but
not the Village .
Mrs . Wiegel had a drawing with her that says the colors were
changed on November 5 . 1992 and maintained that it is a copy of
the construction drawing that was submitted with the applica-
tion and it has been hanging in the Woodland Commons office at
400 Half Day Road .
Mr . Kelly said if there is not a signature on the drawing in
red . the Village did not approve it .
Woodland Commmons - Page 4 .
Ch. Larsen quoted the Sept . 26 . 192 AC minutes and said there
`./ is not a conflict in the colors . One sentence says the tenant
panels are black routed out anodized aluminum and then it says
the Ace Hardware and other tenant panels will be ivory , which
was the insert (copy will be ivory) and that was the only color
Zale was going to allow . Zale changed their own criteria to
acquiesce to Dominick ' s desire . They are a major tenant and
Ch. Larsen said he did not blame them and was not being
critical . The whole appearance of the sign was changed .
Com . Weissman said the only color change he recalls is when the
whole center was changed from white with yellow awnings , then
Dominick ' s did not want white and the AC agreed to change to
ivory with various colored awnings .
Ch . Larsen said that a solution has been recommended , or Zale
can appeal to the Village Board . and the AC may be overruled .
Com . Weissman commented that the ivory color really makes the
sign nicer .
Ch. Larsen agreed and said it would have a " lot of class" and
the AC should probably have originally approved it that way .
Mr . Babbitt said it would cost Zale $7 ,000 to do it .
Ch. Larsen suggested getting another bid . He noted that there
are a total of 10 panels that are designated with tenants . The
other panels will have to be manufactured at a later time . if
Stucco-tex paint is used on the black , at the cost of $90 . 00
per gallon, it would not take four gallons of paint .
Mrs . Wiegel said they could not make any decision for the
developer . Dominick ' s is the only sign with stucco texture and
they do not want the rest of the sign to be finished that way.
Ch. Larsen said the AC will make a recommendation to have
Dominick ' s changed back to what was approved , but if they
(Dominick ' s ) want to keep it as it is , they could pay Zaie
money to change the rest of the sign so it will be acceptable .
The AC does not object to the ivory color . The black does not
fit on the sign anymore .
Woodland Commons - Page 5 .
Com . Weissman made the following motion :
I move we recommend to the Village Board that the
Woodland Commons sign be put back to its originally
approved condition, or the black panels to be converted
to the stucco color , to match the Dominick ' s portion ,
with routed out letters with colored copy.
He added that in many shopping centers where there is a
Dominick ' s store , their sign is slightly different from the
rest of the tenants .
Com. Trilling seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote : AYE - Weissman . Viehman . Trilling , Larsen
NAY - None
ABSTAIN - Cea
Motion Passed - 4 to 0 . I abstention .
The sign will be sent to the Village Board on Oct . 6 . 1992 .
Shirley Bates .
Recording Secretary
sb