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1983-05-12 - Appearance Commission - Minutes APPEARANCE COMMISSION VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVE, ILL. THURSDAY, MAY 12, 1983 I. CALL TO ORDER In the absence of Chairman Hardt, Com. L. Gibbs called the meeting to order at 7:32 P.M. at the Village Hall , on Thursday, May 12, 1983. II. ROLL CALL Commissioners Present: C. Zusel , K. Krippes, L. Gibbs. QUORUM E. Larsen (arrived at 7:50 P.M. ) Commissioners Absent: C. Cea and D. Hardt. Building Department Liaison: Mr. Dominic J. Saviano, Jr. Deputy Bldg. Com. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES April 28, 1983 minutes were postponed because 2 Commissioners that were present at that time are absent. IV. BUSINESS A. Merchandising Inventives, Inc. - Wall Sign 700 Armstrong - Buffalo Grove Commerce Center Slol Berger presented the sign which will be erected by the Letterman Sign Company on the South Elevation of the building. They are White Acrylic Letters - 9 inches in height and will be mounted to the surface of the building. They are non-illuminated. They will be mounted 18 high, below the base line of the overhang. Lexington Dev. Corp. has approved the sign which meets the requirements of the Commerce Center. Com. Zusel made a motion to approve the sign as presented by Merchandising Inventives, Inc. 700 Armstrong. Com. Krippes seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Krippes Zusel Gibbs Motion Passed 3 to 0. Nay - None Mr. Berger requested permission to erect a flag pole with a 3'x 5' American Flag. Mr. Saviano said that a permit is not needed, but he asked that Mr. Berger bring in the specifications. The pole will be 22' . Mr. Berger also asked if it is necessary to present signage for the doors. Mr. Saviano said as long as the signs are directional signs, they do not require permits. B. EDP-Computers - Wall Sign 400 W. Dundee Road - Liebermann's Center Mr. Robert J. Whitehead of Olympic Signs presented the sign and Ms. Barbara Sabadash represented EDP Comuters. The sign will be Cream letters with a gold can. Because mounting the individual letters to the building leaves many holes in the fascia, Mr. White- head requested mounting the letters on a raceway. Mr. Liebermann has approved the sign. One other sign, at the Jewelry Store, is on a raceway. The AC approved that sign, and had no objections. Com. Krippes made the following motion: I move we approve the sign presented by EDP - Computers with the following stipulations: 1 . Colors to be Cream letters with Gold trim caps. 2. Letters to be mounted on a raceway. Com. Zusel seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Zusel Krippes Gibbs Motion Passed 3 to 0. Nay - None Com. Larsen arrived - 7:50 P.M. C. Levitt Homes - Sales Trailer for Serendipity Models - H. Goldstein The trailer is 60 feet long and will be located on Lot 79 at the corner of Bordeaux Court West and Brandywyn Lane. It will be wrapped on three sides with a 2 x 4 stud wall - painted white. The fourth side will be skirted. The trailer will be sided with the same aluminum siding that will be used for the homes, and the same trim colors, etc. Grey shingles, white trim and a covered entrance balcony in front. There will be a small balcony with stairs in the rear also. There are homes across the street and some down the street, but there are no homes to the rear. The back of the trailer will be off-white. The sales office is expected to open within six months. That will be the time period for which the permit for the trailer will be issued. In front, the latice work around the steps will be white including the rails. Com. Zusel made a motion to approve the Levitt Serendipity Sales Trailer as submitted for a period of six months. Com. Larsen seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Krippes Larsen Zusel Gibbs Motion Passed 4 to 0. Nay - None \/ APPEARANCE COMMISSION May 12, 1983 - Page Two 2. Landscaping of Levitt Serendipity Sales Trailer The area in front of the balcony will have 3 - 5' shrubs and there will be 2 lights screened with 3 - 3' dog woods. The entire Lot 79 will be sodded. The lights will be on photo cells and will be on all night for security purposes. The lights will shine on the sales trailer only, not out on to Aptakisic Road. The parking area will be Lot 80. Com. Krippes made the following motion: I move we approve the Levitt Serendipity Sales Trailer Landscaping as submitted. Com. Larsen seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Krippes Larsen Zusel Gibbs Motion Passed 4 to 0. Nay - None It was noted that part of the Split Rail Fence shown on the site-plan is missing a portion from the Sales Trailer to the model area, but there will be fencing included to direct customers back through the sales trailer. Com. Krippes made the following motion: I move we approve the lights on the Levitt Sales Trailer with the landscaping as presented. Com. Larsen seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Zusel Larsen Krippes Gibbs Motion Passed 4 to 0. Nay — None Signage on the Levitt Sales Trailer - On Lot 79. Mr. Goldstein presented a drawing of the trailer with the sign located on the front elevation. It will be painted on wood with one light directed on the sign. No other signage will be on the trailer. Com. Zusel made the following motion: I move we approve the sign as presented by Levitt Homes for the Sales Trailer. Color Pantone #281 - Serendipity Com. Larsen seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Krippes Larsen Zusel Gibbs Motion Passed 4 to 0. Nay - None APPEARANCE COMMISSION May 12, 1983 - Page Three D. Janies - Wall Sign at Strathmore Square Mr. Morelli was present and asked that the Commission wait a few minutes for Mr. John Doyle, of Doyle Signs to arrive The Strathmore Square Sign Package was discussed before Janies was submit- ted. Mr. Morelli explained that when the sign package was developed, he wanted a simple sign package with variations allowed with his approval . He did, in fact, stipulate that the letters were to be Helvetica and the color of all signs was to be White. He does not object to variations. A first time store coming in would be informed that the Sign package must be followed. With the former tenants who already have Logos; and with stores that have other locations and established letter styles, etc. _ Mr. Morelli said he has prior arrangements with H & R Block and Quinlan and Tyson. The leases stipulate that certain signage will be permitted. He commended the AC for the compromises that have been made and said he thinks the center will turn out "real nice." In the near future, Hall - mark will be coming in with their red sign with the crown. The sign package allows for variations with the approval of Mr. Morelli and the AC. Com. Larsen said Mr. Morelli was informed that he would have a problem with the sign package when he restricted it to White Helvetica letters. Mr. Morelli specifically stipulated that what he requested is what he wanted. Mr. Larsen recalled trying to include more colors , nationally recognized trademarks, etc. Now, people are coming in and saying that Mr. Morelli approved certain signs, and the AC is placed in the position of being in the middle. Mr. Morelli said that since he had previous agreements with some tenants, he had to approve the signs. The AC did not have to do so. He said, "That was his out. " There are no other former tenants who will be coming in, with the exception of Baskin and Robbins. There is some question about his staying at the center. No can signs will be allowed. Com. Larsen discussed the fact that some businesses lose some of their recognition when they are not allowed to put up their logos. And some logos can only be fabricated within cans. With reference to Sears, the box is part of their logo. It was possible to do theirs in the white plexiglas, but not all companies can do that. Heinemann's sign at Dominick's is a can sign, but Mr. Morelli said this is not on the same marquee and does not compare with the rest of the center. He would not allow 31 Flavors to go up in a can. Com. Larsen suggested that now is the time to change the sign package so that it is not so restrictive. Some cans are necessary to promote business. Mr. Morelli complimented the AC on the way they have handled the signage up to this time. He repeated that should a business come in without any previous format, he will insist the sign package be followed. Since Mr. Doyle had not arrived, the owner of Janies , Mr. Perry Wein presented the sign. He explained that this will be the third location, and the other two stores have Yellow letters in the letter style pre- sented. It is a Custom style letter. Com. Gibbs quoted the sign package: ' l " White Helvetica letters. APPEARANCE COMMISSION May 12, 1982 - Page Four Mr. Morelli interceded and gave his consent because this is a multiple store, with a recognized logo letter style and color. Mr. Doyle arrived and described the sign construction. Yellow Plexi-glas with bronze trim caps. He recalled other signs at the center that vary from the sign package. Sears, H & R Block and Quinlan & Tyson do not have the Helvetica letter style. He noted that the drawing showing the name on the window was done by the artist. There will not be anything on the window. Com. Larsen made the following motion: I move we approve the sign presented by Janies, with the following stipulations: 1 . Trim Caps will be bronze (not gold) 2. Letter faces will be #2037 Yellow Plexi-glas 3. Channels to be painted bronze 4. Electrical disconnect to be painted out to match the fascia 5. Letters are individually flush mounted. Com. Zusel seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye - Zusel Larsen Nay - Krippes Gibbs Motion defeated by a tie vote - 2 to 2. An appeal may be made to the Village Board, or a compromise with the AC can be worked out at this time. Sftw Com. Gibbs said that he would like to see the sign package followed. Com. Krippes said she would approve the letter style if the color was changed to White. Com. Larsen said that there is no provision in the sign code to appeal on the basis of color. Com. Zusel said that because the Appearance Commission has talked and talked about being more lenient with people with regard to logos and with regard recognizable logos. Janies is a clean neat sign and people are familiar with the Janies stores. The Appearance Commission should be more flexible. Mr. Wein said in defense of the sign, that because it is a recognizable logo; they have been in the area for over 20 years;, and they would like the store in Buffalo Grove to carry this logo with their color. With reference to his right to appeal to the Village Board, Mr. Wein said he would exercise that option. He prefers to have the color Yellow. Com. Gibbs recognized that right and informed Mr. Wein that he should make his request through Mr. Saviano to be placed on the Agenda for the next meeting which will be on June 6, 1983. The Commission discussed the fact that Quinlan & Tyson were granted a color variation, setting the precedence for other colors. It was noted that the AC only allowed a variation for the Q and T (Red) and that the compromise Sew was made because Quinlan and Tyson agreed to all white letters for the rest of the sign. A variation in letter style was also granted. APPEARANCE COMMISSION May 12, 1983 - Page Five Com. Larsen repeated his doubt that color can be appealed because there is no provision made for it in the Sige Code. N./ Mr. Doyle brought up the question of the Hallmark sign that will be soon presented, with their letter style, crown and color of red. He felt that since two factors are involved in Janies - Color and Letter Style - he felt that it would be easier to appeal on the basis of Color only, rather than for both Color and Letter Style. Com. Larsen repeated his doubt that the Sign Code has a proviso for appealing the color of a sign. Com. Zusel felt the discussion was deeper than just the color of a sign, it is the flexibility of the AC that is involved. Com. Larsen said this problem is not a question of flexibility or in- flexibility, but has been caused by the sign package for Strathmore Square. The criteria is more restrictive than the Sign Code and the Appearance Commission had been placed in a position of enforcing his criteria. Mr. Saviano expressed his concern about the Village Board's position when the Trustees realize that the Appearance Commission has already granted variations to the Sign Package, in Color and letter style. Com. Larsen repeated the problem the AC is having with the enforce- ment of Mr. Morelli 's sign package, and suggested that he could have read the Village Sign Code and decided that it was restrictive enough. He could have placed restrictions in his lease and it would be up to him to enforce his own leases. siww Com. Gibbs expressed the position of the Commission again, that because a vote was a tie that resulted in deniel , Mr. Wein has one recourse. He can appeal to the Village Board unless he is willing to compromise. Mr. Wein said that after listening to the discussion, he feels like he is being penalized for a set of guidelines that the developer has created. It appears that the tenants are the ones that are punish- ed, not the developer. Mr. Morelli has approved the sign which seems to indicate his admission that his guidelines were a little strict. The tenants should not have to pay the price for a disagreement between the Commission and the developer. Com. Larsen said that while Mr. Wein may have understood the situation that way, what the AC is trying to enforce is a sign criteria for a developer that is tight and yet it is basically very loose. Anything that anyone wants they can come in and ask for. If the AC approves a sign, the developer would probably go along with it. There isn 't one sign in that center that meets the criteria of the developer's sign package or that is the same letter style. Each store is different and that is the way it should be to set them apart from the others. He has no objection to the sign as presented. The Yellow is the Mc Donald's Yellow, not a gold yellow like the AC approved for Barry's Bar-B-Q. Mr. Saviano commented that when the Village Board realizes that the AC approved the Red Q and T for Quinlan and Tyson, they will find it dif- ficult to enforce the sign package because the precedent has already been set. APPEARANCE COMMISSION May 12, 1983 - Page Six Com. Gibbs assured Mr. Wein that the AC is not trying to penalize him or any one else. He is coming into a shopping center that is being re-structured and the Commission is trying to help the developer in the area of attractive signage. Com. Larsen asked that Straw Polls be taken to determine the Commission's differences regarding letter style and color. Com. Gibbs called for a Straw Poll concerning the color YELLOW: No objection: Larsen and Zusel Objection: Krippes and Gibbs Com. Gibbs asked for a Straw Poll concerning Letter Style: No Objection: Larsen and Zusel Objection: Krippes and Gibbs Since the straw polls indicated tie votes in each instance, there is no reason to have another vote. The next Village Board meeting will be June 6, 1983. Mr. Saviano will arrange to have Janies on the Agenda. V. ANNOUNCEMENTS - None VI. ADJOURNMENT Com. Larsen made a motion to adjourn. Com. Krippes seconded the motion. The meeting was adjourned at 8:40 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Shirley Bates, cretary Appearance Co scion APPEARANCE COMMISSION sb May 12, 1983 - Page Seven