1980-06-12 - Appearance Commission - Minutes APPEARANCE COMMISSION
VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVE. IL
THURSDAY. JUNE 12. 1980
J
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Don Hardt called the Appearance Commission meeting to order at 7:35 P.M.
on Thursday, June 12, 1980 at the Village Hall.
2. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Present: D. Knaak, L. Paolillo, L. Kirby, B. Gibbs and D. Hardt.
Commissioners Absent: M. Holland (Out on Reserve Duty) and P. Carr.
Building Department was represented by James D. Griffin.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
May 29, 1980 — Com. Knaak made a correction of the location of Dr. Wolin Is
sign (a). The sign is to be placed on the column that is at
the SOUTH end of the White Hen Pantry as indicated on the site
plan submitted by Dr. Wolin.
Com. Gibbs made a motion to approve the May 29, 1980 minutes as revised.
Com. Knaak seconded the motion. Roll was called:
Aye — Paolillo, Knaak, Gibbs and Hardt
Nay — None
Abstain — L. Kirby
May 29, 1980 minutes were approved as corrected.
4. BUSINESS
a) Anders — New Model — Architecture
Mr. Jerry De Grazia presented the proposed new model with the explanation
that nine (9) will be built on existing foundations in Units 1 and 3.
It is a one story Colonial, with 1,100 square feet of living space to be
constructed with the same materials and color combinations that were pre—
viously approved. The model has no basement.
The discussion centered about the exact appearance of the garage because the
plans submitted showed a one car garage, but the model will have two car
garages with no window. Also, each foundation is a bit different so there
will be minor changes is each model.
Com. Knaak made a motion to Table the discussion until actual plans are
submitted.
Com. Paolillo seconded the motion.
Com. Kirby asked is the Plan Commission had been advised of the modification?
Mr. Griffin confirmed the fact that there are no major changes. The Staff
and Mr. Balling have seen the plans and approved their construction. The
Building Department will be given complete plans to be reviewed before they
are built.
Mr. De Grazia said that is some demand for this type of house because of the
present market condition and added they believe the style will add interest to
the Sub—division. •
Ch. Hardt thought the Commission could work from the plans that were
submitted and added that the only change is that the window shown on
the front elevation is the door. He called for a vote on the motion \J
to Table. Roll Call Vote was taken as follows
Aye (To Table) — B. Gibbs, L. Kirby, D, Knaak
and. L. Paolillo
Nay D. Hardt
Motion to Table Carried 4 to 1.
Ch. Hardt informed Mr. De Grazia that he need only to submit exterior
elevations and that they would be on the Agenda June 26, 1980.
b) Uptown Federal Savings — Wall Signs
Representatives — Cindy Kreiger, Bank Officer
Tom Forbes — Whiteway Sign Co.
A model showing the location of the signs was presented and the dimensions'
will be as follows: Front of Building facing Arlington Hts. Rd.
will be a Single Line with Logo — 94 sq. feet.
Logo will be 24" high and Letters 12" high.
Side Entrance on Rt. 83 — 49 sq. feet with a
• large Logo and three lines of copy for name.
The background panel will be Dark Brown with White letters, internally
lit with high output, florescent tubes, with the disconnect behind one of
the panels. The location of the disconnect will be indicated on the sign.
The lights will be on a timer and will go off at approximately 11 P.M.
The sign will extend out from the recessed front columns but will be
attached to the facia so that it does not come out past the building
line of the front elevation.
Com, Gibbs was concerned about the 7 ft. square sign (49 sq. ft.) on the
Route 83 side of the building. He felt the Logo is too large and the
lettering too small to be read.
The Commissioners recalled a similar situation with another bank and do
not, want to allow the Logo to exceed the size of the letters,
Ms. Kreiger said the same Logo appears on their other facilities in North—
field and Rolling Meadows. They use it for identity. She agreed to
eliminate it from the Rt. 83 elevation and enlarge the letters to fit into
the space. She wanted to keep the Logo on the front. As a compromise,
reducing the Logo to 18 inches was mentioned.
Com. Kirby made a statement that most all Logos the Appearance Commission
have allowed in the past have been nationally know Trademarks, and that
the arrow is not e,•lential for identification.
Mr. Forbes felt that for artistic reasons the Arrow should be larger.than
the letters, but after some discussion he agreed to draw new sketches to
show Ms. Kreiger and the Commission. But they felt that reducing the Logo
to 181 was a good compromise, since they were willing to eliminate the #83 one.
In general the Commissioners were in agreement that the Logo should be no
higher that the other letters, and recalled the other Bank situation as
the reason for not being willing to compromise.
Ch. Hardt directed that two motions be made.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
June 12, 1980 — Page Two
r 1
Motion #1: Made by Com. Kirby —
I move we accept the Wall Sign onthe North elevation
of Uptown Federal, with the perimeter to be as depicted.
The Logo be eliminated and the letters be spaced on
three (3) lines uniformly on the sign; with the letter
size not to exceed thirteen (13) inches.
Colors to be Brown with White paint.
The sign to have interior lighting with the disconnect
inside the sign and that the location of the disconnect
will be marked for access.
Com. Gibbs seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken:
Aye — Knaak, Paolillo, Gibbs,Kirby and Hardt.
Nay — None
Motion Passed — 5 to 1.
Motion #2: Made by Com. Kirby=—
I move we accept the facia sign on the 'rest side of the
building (Uptown Federal Savings) as represented here
tonight with these stipulations:
a) the size of the Logo be reduced to
eighteen (18) inches;
b) the electrical disconnect will be
located in the interior of the sign;
with said location designated on the
front;
c) size of the copy letters will be
twelve (12) inches high;
d) the can will be affixed to the facia
of the building and not as depicted on
the first page of the drawing;
e) the colors will match the other sign:
Brown with White lettering.
Com. Gibbs seconded the motion. Discussion followed:
Com. Knaak made a statement that he felt that if the Commission approves this
sign that it is not being fair to others that have appeared with Logos. If the
compromise is accepted, they will be accepting something which they were not
willing to accept before. Com. Knaak said he has always stood for consistency
without discrimination. He believes that this situation involves principles.
Chairman Hardt responded by: reviewing past situations where Logos have been ac—
cepted in rare circumstances depending on their aesthetic taste.
Com. Knack felt this is not a rare situation, nor is the Logo in question an
attactive one (in his opinion). Uptown has presented a sign with the name and
a Logo. In other situations since he has been on the Commission, where Logos.
were approved, they have stood alone without the name.
Ch. Hardt noted Real Estates have been approved with Logos and Com. Knaak said
he has opposed all these signs and is opposed to ALL Logos.
Com. Paolillo commented that the other bank seems to be the correlating factor
in this situation, but one difference is 'it' (Home Federal) had three walls.
APPEARANCE COMMTSSION
June 12, 1980 n Page Three
Com. Knaak stated he would be willing to accept the Logo if it is the same size
as the letters, not 50% larger. He recalled the Commission's hard work in coming
to this compromise decision and felt it would be wrong to change this criteria.
Roll Call Vote was taken on the Notion before the Commission:
Aye — Gibbs
Nay — Knaak, Paolillo, Kirby and Hardt.
Motion Denied — 4 to 1.
Ch. Hardt gave the representatives an explanation for denial of the motion;
"Because of the size of the Logo"
He advised them of their options:
a) To reconsider the sign without a Logo;
b) Reducing the size of the Logo to the size
of the letters;
c) Appealing to the Village Board. To do this
Mr. Jim Griffin would arrange to have them
on the next Agenda possible.
Ms. Kreiger and Mr. Forbes considered these alternatives and said they would first
draw up a new sign and resubmit it with the Logo the same size as the letters.
Com. Gibbs said he would so move to approve the Uptown Federal facia sign on the
West side of the building with these stipulations:
a) the size of the Logo be reduced to
twelve (12) inches, to be the same
size as the letters;
b) the electrical disconnect will be located
in the interior of the sign; with said
location designeted on the front;
c) the can will be affixed to the facia of the
building and not as depicted on the first
page of the drawing submitted tonight;
d) the colors will match the other sign:
Brown with white lettering.
Com. Knaak seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote:
Aye — Kirby, Paolillo, Knaak,
Gibbs and Hardt.
Nay — None
Motion Passed — 5 to 0.
Mr, Forbes asked if there is a specific ordinance that forbids Logos?
Ch. Hardt informed him that the Sign Code specifies that Logos are permitted
ONLY upon approval of the Appearance Commission. He explained the process of
complying with Sign Packages developed for Shopping Centers and why any departure
from the Sign Package requires coming before the Commission for approval. The
reason for requiring this procedure is to eliminate the proliferation of Logos in
Buffalo Grove.
c) For Sale — Sign presented by Salvatore Santoro
Mr. Santoro described the signs and their locations as outlined in the cover
letter he submitted with the drawings. The colors are to be Red and Black on
White. The signs will be fabricated by Diamond Sign Co., Des Plaines.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
June 12, 1980 — Page Four
Com. Kirby mentioned that such signs carry a 6 month time limit with the
right to renew provided the sign is kept in good repair.
The discussion centered around the telephone numbers on the sign. The area
code is necessary for the benefit of those traveling through the Village.
Com. Knaak asked that the numbers be spaced so that they are in line with
each other. This was agreeable to Mr. Santoro and he also stipulated that
should the telephone numbers be changed they would be painted on the sign.
The sizes of the letters were noted on the drawing — Lines 1 and 2 are 15" —
Lines 3 and 4 are 8" with the smaller lettering between 4" and 6".
The locations of the signs will be located as follows:
a) On the 40 feet of property North of the
Shell Station and the sign would be approxi—
mately centered and set back at least 10 ft.
b) Facing Lake/Cook Rd. — 125 ft. section West
of the Shell Station and the East line of the
sign will be about 40 ft. West of the Station.
Com. Knaak made the following motion:
I move we approve the signs as presented. Colors to be as
presented. Locations as presented. Size of the letters as
indicated on the signed copy. The back side of the signs to
be painted White. Sign subject to Sec. 11.2 of the Sign Code
with extensions to be granted by the Village Administrator; if
the sign is in good repair. Also if the property is sold the
sign shall be removed within 3 days of the closing sale of the
property. Telephone nos. to be balanced. Sign will be set on
4 x 4 posts, with no back braces.
Com. Gibbs seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken:
Aye — Paolillo, Kirby, Knaak, Gibbs
and Hardt.
Nay +- None
Motion Passed 5 to 0.
d) Tony of Italy, Facia Sign, Stra-thmore Shopping Plaza
Tony Boccia and Joe Channey, North Shore Sign Co.
Before the discussion began the previous hearings were outlined by Ch. Hardt.
It was noted that the Sign Package for Strathmore Shopping Plaza calls for
Helvetica style lettering, Capitols to be 18 inch and Lower case to be 10 inch.
The mnutes of these previous hearings before the Appearance Commission, the ZBA
and the Village Board were summarized. The final decision was for a facia sign
with one : line of lettering to read Tony of Italy Hair Design. Also it was noted
that because there is a tree in the line of sight in front of the store, should
Tony erect the sign the tree may be removed and replaced by lower shrubbery.
Mr. Boccia presented the new sign and indicated the reason it appears on two lines
was because of the Sign Company's opinion that two lines of copy would be more
easily read. He comes before the Appearance Commission seeking help because he
is need of a sign to maintain his business. Every day people come in who are
residents of the Village and say that they did not know he was located there.
He indicated that of the six stores located on Arlington Hts. Rd. all six are
different.
Chairman Hardt explained that they all are in conformity to the Sign Package
which allows for different combinations of the two designated letter sizes.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
June 12, 1980 — Page Five
Mr. Channey explained that they do not use letters smaller than 9" because the
stroke gets so small that they tend to arc on both sides creating a maintenance
problem.
The Commission recalled the sign was ultimately was approved (Mar. 8, 1979)
and was to use 12" uppers and 8" lower case letters. Mr. Channey was asked if
he could make up a sign using 9" lower case letters and eliminate "ers" to fit
in the 21' of space over Tony's store? To read Tony of Italy Hair Design.
Mr. Channey said that the sign would be about 17 feet long and that he would
have to draw it up and bring it back with 12 " Uppers . and 9" Lowers. He said
when he learned tonight that the tree could be removed it made a difference in
the necessity for two lines of copy. The word Designers was probably his error.
Com. Knaak asked that a drawing of Starck and the Bakery be presented with the
Tony sign in relation. Mr. Channey agreed to do this. The bottoms of all the
letters should be on the same line as stipulated in the Sign Package.
Ch. Hardt suggested Tabling the matter until the next meeting and said they
would be second on the Agenda after Uptown. The next meeting is June 26, 1980.
He also noted that the sign being discussed is a variance to the Sign Package.
Com. Kirby made a motion to Table — Tony of Italy, Hair Design until 6/26/80.
Com. Paolillo seconded the motion. Roil was called — Aye Unanimously.
5. ANNOUNCEMENTS
Sign Packages were discussed. It was agreed that should another Strip Shopping
Center be brought in the A/C should try to formulate a very comprehensive Sign
Package that allows the Commission to view each sign. It was noted that since
sign packages usually coma in before the Centers are built, it is difficult to
visualize how the signs will look. They do not all have to be exactly alike to
look good. It was suggested that copies of all signs be kept for reference.
The Arco Sign was reviewed because is is somewhat different than the one that was
damaged. According to the Sign Code — a Non—Conforming sign only loses its Non—
Comformity if it is altered in such a way that makes it Less Non—Conforming. The
Commission and the Village Administrator agreed that the Arco sign looks better
now that previously.
6. ADJ0URNMENT
Com. Gibbs made a motion to adjourn the meeting at 9:22 P.M. Com. Kirby seconded
the motion. Chairman Hardt adjourned the meeting after unanimous consent.
Res ectfully submitted,
_-k /L' f e
Shirley Bates, cretary
Appearance Commission
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
June 12, 1980 — Page Six
sb