1980-08-14 - Appearance Commission - Minutes APPEARANCE COMMISSION
VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVE. ILL.
Thurs.. Aug. 14. 1980
1. CAIL TO ORDER
Chairman Don Hardt called the meeting to order at 707 P.M. at the Village Hall,
on Thursday. August 14, 1980.
2. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Present: Holland. Knaak. Gibbs. Garr. Hardt. QUORUM PRESENT.
Commissioners Absent: Kirby and Paolillo.
Bldg. Department Representative: Mr. James D. Griffin, Asst. Bldg. & Zoning Adm.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Chairman Hardt noted that with regard to the Pulte Models (Tanglewood) Recom—
mendation the Elevations of Model #725 should be as follows:
A: B: C (1 and 2): D and E.
This will clarify the intention of the Commission to consider Elevation C as one
elevation in using the Nonotny Code.
Com. Gibbs made a motion to approve the July 2.4. 1980 minutes as amended.
Com. Holland seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken:
Aye — Holland. Gibbs and Hardt.
Abstain — Carr and Knaak
Nay — None
The July 2.4. 1980 minutes were approved.
4. OLD BUSINESS
The Eyes Have It — Sign
Dr. Barry Katznelson and his attorney. Mr. Jeffrey Picklin (Einhorn and
Picklin) 1213 W. Dundee Rd. — B.G.
Ch. Hardt gave ar_ explanation for the benefit of the Commissioners 'rho were
not present at the last meeting, of why the sign was Tabled, Because the
sign man present had no authority to make any changes i.n. the sign he was
informed of the problems that the Commission had with the sign, particularly
with the Logo. The Sign Code vas reviewed with lir. Katznelson and his
attorney. The sections giving the limitations were pointed out. The
entire concept of the Sign Code is to have signage for identification pur—
poses only. The business is to be identified without additional adverti sing.
Logos are not normally accented by the Commission. The Dunell Center is an
old one and was probably constructed before the first Sign Ordinance was in
existance. Some of the signs have been changed under the former Code, but the
Commission is working under the present Code which limits the use of Logos.
Er. Picklin presented photographs of the existing signs in the Center and
explained that the name "The Eyes Have It" has been registered with the
federal government in Washington. A sketch of the eye was also ,sent in.
r .
At present this is a single business- but others with the same name have
opened up inthe U.S. and Dr. Katznelson is negotiating with them to combine.
The Illinois Corporate name is The Eyes Have It. One reason that the Logo
is important to the business is that people have already gone into the B. G.
Glass store thinking it was an eyeglass repair shop.
Ch. Hardt asked what they felt about using the name and the second line —
Preseription Opticians without the Eye. He explained the general rule for
determining what is a nationally recognized Logo. It needs no name. . .
He asked if the Half—eye with the glass would be people I,mow what it stood
for, as would Shell or Standard, for instance.
Mr. Picklin noted two other stores with Logo and advertising, namely the
C. C. Cycle store with the Bicycle and the "Got The Pictured with the words
Art and Frame Warehouse. Dr. Katznelson added that people do not always
know what Prescription Opticians means. especially children and old People.
Ch. Hardt said that there is no sign package for this center and that since
an existing sign is being changed. it must be brought into conformance with
the Sign Code. He explained the options that the petitioners have if the
Commission votes to deny signs or makes recommendations that are not in
agreement with the petitioner. An anneal can be made to the Village Board.
He added that since an existing can is being used that it be repaired and
painted. It should be brown to match the mansard. He asked what the Commis—
sioners felt: Does the sign appear less conforming to the code?
Con. Knaak said he does not favor Logos and feels Prescription Opticians
adequately defines the business.
Com. Holland suggested the eye be used on stationary. cards. etc. He said
he could allow the description but not the Logo. He would have to rethink
about using the Logo without the description — but not both.
Mr..Pi ckli n said that the Commission is descrimating against a small business.
and also reminded the Cori ssion that this is not a first time business. He
has used this symbol before.
Com. Gibbs and Com. Carr both agreed that Prescription Opticians would be
01Jowed0 Com. Carr added that either the Eye or the words P-0, but not both.
Ch. Hardt stated that the Eye was the main problem. He reminded the Dr. that
the it is a compromise to allow the words Prescription Opticians alongTith
the name.
Mr. Picklin asked if they could discuss the matter and come back later.
Ch. Hardt agreed and called for a motion to Table until the end of the meeting.
Com. Knaak so moved. Com. Holland seconded the motion and the Voice Vote was
Aye Unanimously.
b. Pulte — Landscaping
Dan Star, and Sharon Covey from Pulte. Mr. Carl Midland. Landscape Architect.
Ch. Hardt directed attention to the small drawing for corner lots. Four
plantings will be used in the positions best for each individual lot.
There were no obiecti.ons. Com. Gibbs made a motion to approve the four
items as presented on the drawing. Com. Holland seconded the motion.
Roll Call Vote was taken: Aye — Knaak. Holland. Carr. Gibbs and Hardt.
Nay — None
Motion Passed 5 to 0.
APPEARANCE CON d aSSION
August 14. 1980 .. page Two
Model Area Landscaping
Ms. Covey said there is a possibility that the narking lot. now located on
Lot 3 will be moved to Lot 4. Lot 4 belongs to Green Knolls and a bid has
been made. If the offer is accented, and Lot 4 is used for parking. all the
plants on Lot 3 will be moved to Lot 4 and Lot 3 will be completely sodded.
Mr. Griffin confirmed the annexation agreement terms does not limit the
number of models they may build. Mr. Griffin also explained that the Village
Forester only looks at street—tree plantings.
Ch. Hardt noted that generally the model areas are well done. He also asked
that the lighting be shielded so that it only provides lighting on the house,
not over property lines.
Mr. Midland said there are no houses behind the Models, but for protection
two lights are proposed in the rear. Busch Road is behind the models and
will have a lot of plants in front of the Swale. Because the Green Knolls
Models backed up to Levitt's property no rear lighting was necessary.
Ch. Hardt asked that the Landscaping be acted upon, then the Lighting.
Com. Knack made the following motion:
I make a motion that the Landscaping Plan for
the Pulte Model Homes (Tanglewood) be accepted
as depicted. That if Lot 3 is not used as a
parking lot that the entire lot will be sodded.
That the landscaping depicted around Lot 3 will
then be utilized around Lot 4 which will then be
the narlcing lot.
Com. Carr seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken:
Aye — Gibbs, Carr, Holland,
Knaak and Hardt
Nay — None
Motion Passed 5 to 0.
Lighting
Com. Gibbs made the following motion:
I move we approve the lighting as depicted for the
Pulte Homes (Tanglewood) on the landscaping sketch.
Com. Carr seconded the motion. Ch. Hardt asked ifthere was discussion.
Com. Knaak commented that if the lights are on a timer set to go off at
11 P.M. then he did not feel the rear lights we- ?. necessary.
A gentleman from Pulte explained that a timer is used on the first models,
but the rear lights on these would probably not be turned off at night.
The only house behind the models is the Green Knolls office which may be
sold. If it should ever be occupied then a timer should be used.
Corm. Gibbs added the following stipulation to the motion:
Should Green Knolls sell Lot 76, and it
becomes occupied by a non—business: that
timers be set on the four front lights and
the rear lights be removed. Also, Pulte
has the oution to return for re—consideration.
Corr. Carr seconded the Amendment.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION e Three
August 14: 1980 -- page
Roll Call Vote was taken. Aye — Knaak. Hardt. Carr, Gibbs and Hardt
Nay — None
Notion Passed 5 to 0.
M . Covey asked the Commission to look at a new front for one of the
Model elevation. Also the sips in front of the fodels need approval.
Ch. Hardt asked that they come to the next meeting for these two items.
4. HE'.I B'U,STLTT:S S
a) Big Daddy's
Ben Bartell, President of Tn ter—Lei sure Coro. and Oi.mer of Big Baddy'
Mr. Bartel_ presented his sign, and informed the Commi_ssion that when he
began proceedings to rent his store at Kohl's Commons he was given copies
of the Sign Package for Kohl's Commons and a Sign Code from Buffalo Grove.
Mr. Simpson and Mr. King advised him that he could have two lines for his
signs, Other stores have two lines and one of the crite_ria he had for rent—
the store was that he could have a sign that could be seen. His store was
formerly Karibu — PFTS and GT"TS. (Two Trine^) Er. Bartel] noted that the
requirement of individually internally l i.rhted letters i.s extremely expen—
sive. The rep stered name is really Big'Daddy!s — Records. Tapes and Video.
They have reduced the length of the sign by eliminatine the word Tapes in
order to comply with the letter size. They are ready to open for business
and must open without a sign because of this matter.
Ch. Hardt familarized the Commissioners with the situation. The Commission
initially approved the Sign Package brought in by Mr. Simpson soecifing the
size, color. letter style and installation criteria. What he failed to do
was to supply the early tenants with a copy of the Sign Package. Several
stores put up signs that did not comply. The three stores that have two
lines` Cambridge Cleaners: Karibu Tropics — Pets and Gifts; and Vanco —
Wall Coverings. The Cleaners complied and added Cambridge. but the other
two businesses atmealed to the Village Board. The Board upheld the Appear—
Commission and required them to add Karibu and Vanco to their signs. The
Sigma Package specified one line but the Sign. Code does not necessarily say
one like. therefore the Appearance Commission is authorized to grant varia—
tions with respect to a Sign Package provided that it does not conflict with
the established Sigma Code.
Ch. Hardt then addressed the sign itself. He noted that Mr. Bartell needs
more copy than can normally be put within the frontage of his store. He
said the sipn as presented is in reality three linos.
Hr. Bartell presented photos of other stores and advertising in the newspaper.
He said he believes he is entitled to use his registered name. He has spent
1/4 of a million dollars to rut together these stores. He is spending another
1/4 of a milLion_ dollars in advertising to develop the business and let people
know who tarry are and where they are. As a merch^nt (owner of 143 stores in
California. Ari Iona and Nevada) he said that if he does not develop his Logo.
and his identity. people do not come in.
Concerning the letter style which is to be Helveti ca Mr. Bartell said that
the line Records and Video is the proper style but that Yr. Simpson had told
him asurodly he could have his special style for Big Daddy's. He noted that
Fizst Federal also has their own letter style.
Com. Knaak made a comment that the Village has a shopping center where the
Si go. Package i s inoperative.
APPEARANCE COIn1ISSICN
August 14. 1980 — Page Four
Coma Gibbs made the following motion:
{
I move we accept the screen option No. 2 for the
refuse container at the Northwest Community Hospital
Ambulatory Care Center.
Com. Knaak seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote was taken:
Aye — Holland, Carr, Knaak, Gibbs and Hardt
Nay — None
Motion Passed 5 to 0.
c) Buffalo Grove Datsun — Revised Landscaping
No representative was present.
Old Business — a) The Eyes Have It were recalled.
Mr. Picklin repeated the request for the Eye as part of the sign.
He pointed out that children and older people depend on the picture
and they feel that other signs in the center have logos so they should •
be allowed to have one also. Other signage was discussed.
Ch. Hardt explained the status of legal non—conforming signs. He said
that actually the can that is going to be used is really larger than would
be allowed under the Sign Code. He cited page 49 of the Code and said the
Commission must decide if the change proposed will make the sign any less
conforming that it now is. The Commission has proposed a compromise by
allowing the words Prescription Opticians. He outlined the proposed
compromise and explained again the right of the petitioner to appeal.
Con. Gibbs made thefollow?rig motion:
I move the sign for The Eyes Have It with
the second line — Prescription Opticians —
be approved without the Logo (eye). Also
the can should be repainted brown.
The colors are as depicted, red and black,
with the electrical disconnect to be painted out.
Como Knaak seconded the motion, Discussion followed: Ch. Hardt asked that
the petitioners consider the possibility of adding their name to the pylon
sign that is up at Duneil Ce_r.ter. The right of appeal was again noted.
Dr. Katznelson said he has asked to have this done but he has not gotten
any response from the owners. He will agree to the motion.
Roll Call Vote was taken: Aye -. Holland, Knaak, Carr,
Gibbs and Hardt.
Nay — None
Motion Passed 5 to 0.
6. ANI`TOUNCE14TNTS
Mr. Griffin told the Appearance Commission that two signs are going for a
variance next Tuesday, at the ZBA meeting. Poppint Fresh Pies and NW Community
Hospital for a temporary sign permit.
The Commissioners noted that Suffield Place needs some care. Also since they
are out of buisness the sign is abandoned and should be removed.
7. ADJOIJRITLF T
Com. Holland rade a motI on to adjourn at 9:50 and Com. Gibbs seconded it.
fleeting was adjourned.
Respectfully s ub7.11 ttcd,
sb OF,hirley Sates, Secretary .. �PPEAR?INCE CCIrnSSTpr'Auto 3t 14. 1O�?0 `°=''` S i xc •
Com. Holland offered as a compromise, the Records and Video to be in the
right size and style letters; and allow Big Daddy's in the same size let-
ters as Karibu. Vance and Cambridge used in a single line.
Mr. Bartell agreed if he can have the Daddy's in an arc. This is his Logo
nationally. He must have that,
The cost of the lettering was discussed. and Mr. Bartell said he only planned
to light up Records and Video to conserve costs. To light the whole sign
would be an economic hardship. He offered to compromise if he could have
his letter style he will illuminate it. The difference between the lower
line of the sign. U.500 and Big Daddy's -
Compromise was discussed at length. Ch. Hardt argued that Big Daddy's is
the most important part of the name and definitely should be lighted.
Com. Knaak suggested the name Big Daddy's could be in larger letters on
one line and Records and Video in 18 inch letters, second line.
Mr. Bartell agreed that larger letters would better identify his store.
and asked that he be allowed to keep his letter style.
The Commission discussed this offer and agreed that it was a good compromise
if the letters were individually lit with disconnects as stated on the plan.
Com. Knaak made the following motion:
I move we approve the sign for Big Daddy's. Records and Video
as follows:
1) That Big Daddy's be on one line,
using twelve (12) inch letters- white
internally illuminated and in
the type style depicted in the drawing;
2) That Records and Video be in eighteen (18)
inch letters. white Helvetica style and
internally illuminated.
3) All letters white with black drop shade,
internally lit a th white bulbs. (Individual)
Com. Holland seconded the moti on. Roll Call Vote eras Woken:
!_ye: Gibbs, Carr, Holland.
Knaak and Hardt
Nay: None
Motion Passed 5 to 0.
b) Northwest Community Hospital - Screening of Dumpsters.
Mr. Carl Hundrieser; Architect explained the location of the proposed
dumpster and noted that two choices of screening have been suggested.
One is a redwood fence and the other a live plant screen. They prefer
the plants because of the heavy use. His response to the question of
why they are not using all internal refuse disposal as they intended was
that the volumn of patients has been triple what was expected. They
are having 75 patients every day. The dumpster is about 31x61x41 and
will not really be seen from the roads. Should any of the plants die
they are guaranteed by the landscaper,
The Comrrieeioner-s discussed the proposed plant screen and agreed it to
be the most esthetic. They also complimented Mr. Hundrieser on the whole
project. It is most pleasing both inside and outside.
APPEARANCE COMMISSION
August 14, 1980 = Page Five