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1981-07-23 - Appearance Commission - Minutes , APPLARANCE COMMISSION VILLAGE OF BUFFALO GROVE, ILL. THURS., JULY 23, 1981 I. CALL TO ORDER Chairman Don Hardt called the meeting to order at 7:35 P.M. at the Village Hall on Thursday, July 23, 1981. II. ROIL CALL Commissioners Present: Paolillo, Knaak, Kirby and Hardt. QUORUM Commissioners Absent: Gibbs, Carr, and Cea. Also Present: J. Griffin, Asst. Bldg. and Zoning Adm. Marc Schwartz, Trustee Liaison III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Com. Knaak made a motion to approve the July 9, 1981 minutes as presented. Con. Paolillo seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye — Paolillo, Kirby, Knack and Hardt. Nay — None July 9, 1981 minutes approved as presented. IV. Old Business A. Buffalo Grove Car Care — Signage Dan Ingebritson, Manager �✓ Mr. Ingebritson described the signage that is now up. From the east side, they removed the General Car Care sign. They also removed all the Goodyear signs except for the two inserts. He presented a drawing of the station and the proposed sign "BUFFALO GROVE CAR CARE" to be on the brick portion of the front of the building. He said they needed the Car and Van Wash on the Exit to identify that they do wash vans. Ch. Hardt noted that at the last meeting, the station owners were asked to bring in photos of all sides of the building showing all existing signage. From these photos, the AC would work with the owners to determine which signs are necessary for operation of their business. Regarding the pylon sign, Mr. Ingebritson said that the sign man will be able to remove the word 'General' but he is not certain that Buffalo Grove will fit. If not, they would like to leave 'Car Care' up there to identify their service. If necessary, they would remove the whole portion. The signs that are along the side of the car wash island, in the grass telling people what to do. There are also directions on the building that say the same thing. 1'r. Ingebritson said they would prefer to have the signs on the build— ing He said that for legal purposes, these directions are necessary. Ch. Hardt explained that some of the signs at the station have a legal non— conforming status. It is the purpose of the AC to eliminate all unnecessary signage. Only when each sign is reviewed separately and each side of the building separately can the Comrii ssion judge ihat should remain, etc. The services described above the bays was questioned. Mr. Ingebritson said, "These were left because they help identify the station as a car repair, not just car wash or gas. Vany people have asked if they could recommend a good car repair place. These were existing signs. Com. Kirby noted that they are small letters and cannot be seen from Dundee Road. Com. Knaak and Com. Paolil— lo agreed. Ch. Hardt would prefer only: Buffalo Grove Car Care. r • i On the front, the sign presented would be white, non—illuminated letters It was noted that signage is determined by percentages. ?'ith a pylon sign, usually 20% of the facia space is allowed. This would have to include the Goodyear signs and the signs over the car wash exit. It was suggested that the Goodyear sign could be put in the window. They are actually selling tires through Berry Tires of Libertyville, but they do have Goodyear National Accounting system. Goodyear credit cards are used. Signage on the gas islands was discussed. Arco changes the tpump toppers' about 4 times a year. The Goodyear tire racks are kept out side because of limited space inside. The racks would fall apart if the Goodyear tops are removed. It was suggest— ed that they be painted out. Eany good changes have been made. Ch. Hardt explained how difficult it is to keep a non—conforming status. All the signs must be reviewed individually. Each sign requires a permit. It was suggested that the matter be tabled again until the next meeting, if possible. Ch. Hardt proposed that the sign company be represented to answer questions and rsake suggestions. Buffalo Grove Car Care could be put on three sides. Com. Knack made a motion to Table Buffalo Grove Car Care until August 13, 1981 of August 27, 1981. Com. Kirby seconded the motion. Roll Call Vote: Aye — Paolillo, Knaak, Kirby and'Hardt. Nay — None Motion to Table passed 4 to 0. V. NEW BUSINESS A. Elite Draperies — 249 W. Dundee Road Wall Sign — Millie and Bud Kruglick Mr. Kruglick presented pictures of the sign he is using at Lynn Plaza. It is 4 ft. high by 8 ft. — Total 32 sq. feet. and is 4 1/2 years old. It is in good condition. Colors are Brown with yellow letters. Ch. Hardt noted that the AC has been trying to update the center by having all new signs conform with the new sign package. However there are several other 4 foot signs up already. The sign is back lit and can be mounted on the existing brackets. Mr. Kruglick explained that the Elite script is a 40 year old logo and cost of a new sign would be prohibitive. There were no objections. Com. Knaak made the following motion: I move we approve the sign for Elite Draperies as presented. Com. Paolillo seconded the motion. Com. Kirby asked that it be amended to include: The disconnects to be painted out. No side braces exposed and no exposed conduit. These additions were made to the motion. Poll Call Vote: Aye — Paolillo, Knaak �-/ Kirby Nay — Hardt Motion Passed 3 to 1. APPEARANCE COMMISSION July 23, 1981 — Page Two r B. Irving's For Red Hot Lovers Country Court Sign - David Stein Mr. Stein presented a sign which he proposes to afix to the Country Court pylon sign. It is 12 ft. by 2 ft. 6 in. and would 'match the existing sign colors. The sign presented depicted a red hot in a heart and included the words Vienna Pure Beef in the copy as well as Irving's For Red Hot Lovers. Ch. Hardt informed Mr. Stein that the sign as presented would make the sign exceed the 120 sq. ft. limit; and would therefore need another variance. He said he thought the plan was to change the interior portion of the sign. Mr. Stein said that was the original intent when La.Z-Boy was going to share the sign and the cost. After the ZBA denied the request for variation, the Village Board reversed that decision and gave Irving's the right to change the sign. Mr. Marc Schwartz, Trustee said the Board did not see the signs being pro- posed at this time and it was the understanding of the Board that the varia- tion was to the existing sign. It did not approve any copy or an addition to the sign. Ch. Hardt stated he had listened to the tape of the Board meeting discussion on July 6, 1981. It was clear that Irving's was aware of the situation that the center had restrictions on any more ground signs. Mr. Irving Greenspan was quoted as saying he was not asking to put up an addition sign, just ask- ing to redo a sign that is already there. Also, Mrs. Greenspan said that if the Logo cannot be on the sign, just the name would be acceptable. That was the request to the Village Board. Mr. Stein asked if the sign was 4 inches shorter (2 ft. x. 2 inches) would it be accepted. The Commission said that would bring it into conformity to the 120 sq. feet, but the copy also would need revision. Mr. Stein agreed to delete the Logo. He had not actually asked the sign man to include it. He would like to have Vienna Pure Beef left on. Mr. Stein presented some pictures of other Village signs that have logos and advertising. Ch. Hardt pointed out that all the signs pictured are legal non-conforming and the Commission would gladly eliminate them from the Village. After discussion, Ch. Hardt said the AC's purpose is to determine how the sign looks aesthetically and how it blends with the overall sign, its rela- tionship to the Center. After Mr. Stein agreed to remove the logo and Vienna Pure Beef as well as make the sign 4 inches shorter, Ch. Hardt stated that the AC would like to see what is actually going to be on the sign and how it will look on top of the Country Court sign. He suggested tabling until the next meeting. Con. Kirby made a motion to table. Com. Fneak seconded the motion. Yr. Stein asked how the Commission would vote even "if" he brought in another drawing from Federal Sign Co. He asked for a polling of the AC. COM. Knack said if the sign was identical to the Country Court sign with the business name only, he would approve. Com. Paolillo said he did not like the sign personally, but if the sign was well balanced and done to match the Country Court sign, he would approve it. APPEARANCE COMMISSION July 23, 1981 - Page Three i Ch. Hardt asked Mr. Schwartz exactly what the Board granted Irving's? Does it imply that if Irving's should leave, any other business could have the sign? Mr. Schwartz responded that the variation was approved granting Irving's a sign, but no restrictions were made. The AC would decide on aesthetics. Discussion continued concerning the signs' legal non-conforming status. Yr. Schwartz recalled a similar situation concerning Bob Pavetto's center. The ZBA gave "Got The Picture" a variation provided the four signs were welded together, making it "Cne Sign." Ch. Hardt clarified the options before the Commission: 1) Adding on the present Country Court sign, keeping the total square footage under 120 sq. ft. 2) Changine the existing face to include identification for Red Hot Lovers. Ch. Hardt favors the face change. He felt the Commission could not make a- decision without seeing a rendering of what exactly is being proposed. He cautioned the Commission about setting a precedence. Irving's should bring in confirmation from the center that an add-on would be allowed. Com. Kirby noted that by allowing the add-on, they would bring the sign up to the maximum size and no other business could request to add-on. Ch. Hardt called for a vote on the motion to Table until August 13, 1981. Aye - Paolillo, Knack, Kirby and Hardt Nay - None �./ Ch. Hardt summed up the feelings of the Commission are three in favor of the add-on of_the same material, colors, etc. with no logo or advertising. He prefers a face change of the Country Court sign. Should the AC deny the proposed sign, Mr. Stein can appeal to the Village Board. Mr. Schwartz agreed the Village Board could hear an appeal but the Board does not feel as q»A1ifi.ed to judge appearance as this Commision. VI. ANNOUNCEMENTS Several Village sign problems were mentioned. At the Buffalo Grove Mall, the Magic Touch Cleaners sign needs attention. The entrance signs are not down. Regarding new schools, Mr. Griffin said the Village has nothing to say about, schools. Ch. Hardt made further comments about the ViilAge Board meeting concerning the Irving's sign. Mr. Schwartz refrained from expressing his views at this time. Ch. Hardt feels the AC should be represented at all future appeals to the VB. VII. ADJOURNMENT . Com. Knaak made a motion to adjourn. Com. Kirby seconded the motion. The meeting was adjourned at 9:35 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Shirley Bates, Secretary \.s APPEARANCE COIISSION sb July 23, 1981 - Page Four