2000-08-02 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
August 2,2000
Proposed Culver's restaurant with drive-through facility,
Buffalo Grove Town Center, 1.6-acre site northeast of Town
Place,adjacent to Illinois Route 83,Amendment of a Planned
Unit Development(P.U.D.)and Preliminary Plan and approval
Of a Special Use for a drive-through facility in the Commercial
Sub-district of the B-5 Town Center Planned District—
Workshop#2
Proposed Starbucks Coffee shop,the Shops at Aptakisic Creek,
Southeast corner of Buffalo Grove Road/Aptakisic Road,
Amendment of a Planned Unit Development(P.U.D.)and
Preliminary Plan in the B-3 District and variation of the Zoning
Ordinance concerning stacking spaces for a drive-through facility
Workshop#2
Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council
Chambers,Buffalo Grove Municipal Building,50 Raupp Boulevard,Buffalo Grove,
Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Trilling
Mr.Johnson
Mr. Panitch
Mr. Smith
Commissioners absent: Ms. Dunn
Mr. Feldgreber
Also present: Mr. Micheal Werchek
Mr. Douglas Bean,Terraco, Inc.
Mr. Scott Gendell, Terraco, Inc.
Mr.Jack Barbaccia, Stewart Nosky Architects, Ltd.
Mr. Donald O'Hara, Kenig, Lindgren, O'Hara, Aboona
Ms. DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee
Mr. Jeff Berman,Village Trustee
Mr. Robert Pfeil,Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page 1
Moved by Commissioner Johnson, seconded by Commissioner Trilling to approve the
minutes of the regular meeting of July 5,2000. Chairman Ottenheimer noted a correction
needed on page six, paragraph five. Commissioner Trilling asked for a clarification of
paragraph five on page six regarding the number of parking spaces. Mr. Gendell stated
the original plan stated 139 spaces when in fact they had 149 spaces which was strictly a
typographical error. All Commissioners were in favor of the amended motion the motion
passed unanimously.
COMMTI"1'EE AND LIAISON REPORTS—None
PROPOSED CULVER'S RESTAURANT WITH DRIVE-THROUGH FACILITY,
BUFFALO GROVE TOWN CENTER, 1.6-ACRE SITE NORTHEAST OF TOWN
PLACE, ADJACENT TO ILLINOIS ROUTE 83, AMENDMENT OF A PLANNED
UNIT DEVELOPMENT (P.U.D.) AND PRELIMINARY PLAN AND APPROVAL OF
A SPECIAL USE FOR A DRIVE-THROUGH FACILITY IN THE COMMERCIAL
SUB-DISTRICT OF THE B-5 TOWN CENTER PLANNED DISTRICT—WORKSHOP
#2
Mr. Werchek stated they took all the suggestions made by the Plan Commission at the
last meeting and incorporated them into the site plan and have hopefully achieved all of
the issues.
Mr. Werchek noted one of the concerns had been as to how close the proposed facility
would be to Route 83. This coincided with the stacking lane and how to keep people out
of what will be the lane around the building by the drive through window. He noted that
by moving the entry down, they were able to achieve both objectives. It would now be
very difficult to get around the other side of the building, yet it will flow around nicely,
even if people come in and cannot park along the main row or in front of the building.
Instead they will automatically go around the building and park in the front site.
Mr. Werchek stated the dumpster has now been moved from the southeast corner and put
on the back of the building. It is not necessary now to take the garbage through the
parking lot when cars are coming and you are also not spilling along the way. In
attaching the dumpster to the building he will use the same split face stone as the rest of
the building. The dumpster area will be attached to the building and roof will be added
so that the neighbors to the west will not be looking onto a trash bin. This is also where
they have their drive up lanes where they place concrete instead of asphalt which will
clean easier and better. He noted he would like to pick up the extra 2-3 spots where the
`.i dumpster was originally placed for parking.
Mr. Werchek noted he did not fully understand the issue relative to handicapped spaces.
The memo states they would only need 46 spaces for this building. He noted they are
showing 69 spaces plus two handicapped spaces. The memo suggests he will need one
more handicapped space because of the amount of spaces. He stated he would go with
whatever staff recommends and wants.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000, Page 2
Mr. Pfeil noted the minimum zoning requirement is 46 spaces based on the floor area of
the building. The number of total spaces on the property is what is used by the State to
calculate the number of handicapped spaces. Therefore, based on the number of spaces
proposed on this site plan,three handicapped-accessible stalls will be required.
Mr. Werchek noted they easily have enough room in the front to provide another
handicapped stall.
Mr. Werchek stated he wants to have extensive landscaping and a lot more shrubs than is
typically put around these facilities. He noted he also pictures a few areas of
outcroppings with large stones along Route 83. This would be particularly helpful as the
drive up windows are located along this area. However, they have not as yet done a
landscaping plan but are working on it presently.
Mr. Werchek stated he would first like to see a landscape plan before the suggestion for
an island in the parking row of 23 spaces is added.
Commissioner Trilling stated the concrete curbs for the parking stalls along the roadway
are adjacent to the sidewalk and asked if there will be curb stops.
Mr. Werchek stated yes. He further noted they would also like to get some type of shrubs
on there as well.
Commissioner Trillingasked about the parkingon the north side of the access road.
Mr. Werchek stated that is not part of their plan but rather part of the other plan.
Mr. Pfeil noted that area is a landbanked area on the Belmont plan. He noted staff is
working with Belmont on relocating their main driveway which would then shift into the
landbanked parking. The Belmont and Culver's driveways would still be offset, but the
goal is to move the Belmont driveway a little farther away from Route 83.
Mr. Werchek stated the major growth of Culver's is coming in this direction from
Wisconsin and that they are a very large chain. He stated they see northern Illinois as
their next big market. He further noted that everything on the inside of the store relates to
the colors on the outside of the building. He brought along a picture of a slate blue roof
used on another facility as well as some shingles used at one of their facilities, which are
options that could be used at this facility. He also brought samples of an earth tone rock
face stone used in a half brick to make it look more like an oversized jumbo brick.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the developer will be using the split face stone in a brick
or block.
Mr. Werchek stated they use a half block which will look like a jumbo brick. It is laid in
a brick pattern but it is a half a block so that it looks like an oversized brick. It is a stone
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page 3
look but it has a brick detail to it. He stated he hopes the Commission will realize that by
muting down with these colors they will not stand out very much.
Commissioner Trilling stated he has no problem using blue and white as colors but he
does not care for the split face block which is a cheap, industrial look. He would prefer
to see clay brick.
Mr. Werchek stated he is open to that look and will go along with whatever the
Commission wants for the brick. He further stated he would then look at some different
bricks because he does not really like the very white brick.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the developer could do a regular clay brick in a color
that is somewhat more earth toned.
Mr. Werchek stated he could probably fmd some bricks in that color but they will not
have the texture.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked about the Commission's opinion on the split-face versus
clay brick and color.
Commissioner Samuels stated he agreed with Commissioner Trilling.
Commissioner Panitch also agreed.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated he prefers the more muted toned colors rather than white.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated that what he is hearing is that no one wants a pure white
brick but rather a toned down color that will blend in better.
The Commission agreed.
Mr. Werchek stated he would prefer to use the "Interstate Blue" tin roof. However, he
noted the shingle could be used. He noted the standing seam would probably last longer
than a shingle and perhaps look richer.
Commissioner Panitch stated he does not mind the "Interstate Blue" which is more
subdued and darker and not as stark as the original blue presented.
`./ Commissioner Johnson stated he prefers the shingle roof.
Trustee Glover noted the blue gray shingle roof looks quite nice as she saw on one of the
facilities in Wisconsin. She stated the blue gray shingle roof at this location would be a
lot less commercial looking.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated he prefers the shingle roof.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page 4
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if the dumpster would have a roof on it.
Mr. Werchek stated yes.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked about signage.
Mr. Werchek stated any kind of sign the Village preferred would be fine with him.
Commissioner Trilling noted the Village Sign Ordinance limits content to "name and
nature"and does not permit interchangable letters.
Mr. Pfeil suggested that Mr. Schar, the Building Commissioner, should critique the sign
package and advise Mr. Werchek if variations are necessary. He noted that the Zoning
Board of Appeals would review the signs, including a hearing if variations are requested.
Mr. Werchek suggested that a monument sign would be consistent with the brick of the
building.
Ms. Diane Garber stated she lives in Cherbourg and represents hundreds of Buffalo
Grove neighbors who are concerned about the traffic flow regarding the proposed
restaurant. She noted travelers on Route 83 are well served by the Village's decision to
prohibit cars from crossing Route 83 to enter or leave Wendy's restaurant. Buffalo
Grove has wisely applied this policy to several retail related establishments. In
accordance with Buffalo Grove's policy of prohibiting cars from crossing over major
roads, residents of Buffalo Grove request that the proposed Culver's site be treated in a
similar manner. It is in the best interests of safe traffic flow to prevent cars from crossing
over Route 83. She stated she would like Buffalo Grove to comply with its precedent of
utilizing resources, i.e. the light installed at Pauline. She also noted that residents on
Newtown Drive are greatly disturbed by their claim that cars and trucks use that street as
a cut through, posing a threat to young children who play in the neighborhood. The
potential for the proposed Culver's restaurant to have yet another entrance and exit onto
Route 83 may also then give way to the Cherbourg community becoming yet another cut
through, avoiding the light at Route 83 and Buffalo Grove Road. She stated there are
over 200 home owners and residents in that community.
Ms. Stan Berg, 504 Cherbourg Dr., asked about noise control. He noted the Amoco
station on the corner is the source for a great deal of noise from car radios. He stated his
concern is that people in the drive up window will have their radios blasting. He asked if
there is any noise ordinance that could be enforced or perhaps any signage that could be
used to control noise.
Mr. Werchek stated the facility will only be open from 10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. as this is
more of a family restaurant rather than one mainly for young people.
Mr. Dick Isaacs, Vice President of Cherbourg Townhouse Association, noted he
questions the wisdom of yet another hamburger type business at this location. He asked
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page 5
why the Village would not be more interested in a Buffalo Restaurant type business here
than a Culver's.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated that is a great deal of history behind this site. When
Belmont Corp proposed the assisted living project, the Village Trustees made it clear that
this outlot must be a restaurant. Considerable time and effort was spent trying to locate a
restaurant for the site. Culver's was the only restaurant that expressed interest in the site.
Mr. Werchek noted the average Culver's is in towns in Wisconsin of 3,000 people, yet
they do more business per store than McDonald's right now. Culver's is at the top of the
volume per store numbers for restaurants. He noted that the Buffalo Grove location has a
much larger population base to draw from, so he is confident of success at this location.
Commissioner Samuels noted the 4 car stalls adjacent to the drive through window for
customers waiting for food to come out needs to be reviewed by the traffic consultant
regarding the merging process.
Commissioner Johnson asked if the developer still wants to put 2 to 3 parking spaces in
the area along Route 83 previously proposed for the dumpster.
Mr. Werchek stated he would like those spaces for employee parking only and it would
be a convenient place for snow to be pushed in the winter.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if the plan is ready for public hearing. All Commissioners
agreed that that a public hearing should be scheduled.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked that the following items be addressed at the hearing:
1. Signage(locations and approximate sizes)
2. New brick with shingled roof
3. Landscape plan
4. Exterior lighting
Mr. Werchek noted that currently drive-through customers are approximately 35 percent
of the total customer volume, but the higher-volume stores tend to have a lower
percentage of drive-through customers.
Commissioner Samuels asked Mr. Winer of the Disabilities Commission to comment
concerning the proposed plan.
Mr. Mark Winer asked if the extra handicapped parking stall would also be in front of the
store.
Mr. Werchek stated yes.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000, Page 6
PROPOSED STARBUCKS COFFEE SHOP. THE SHOPS AT APTAKISIC CREEK,
SOUTHEAST CORNER OF BUFFALO GROVE ROAD/APTAKISIC ROAD,
AMENDMENT OF A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (P.U.D.) AND
PRELIMINARY PLAN IN THE B-3 DISTRICT AND VARIATION OF THE ZONING
ORDINANCE CONCERNING STACKING SPACES FOR A DRIVE-THROUGH
FACILITY—WORKSHOP#2
Mr. Gendell stated he wanted to clarify the previous question about parking spaces
approved for this shopping strip. He noted the previous approval was based on 139
parking spaces, although the site plan actually provided 149 spaces. The plan had a
misprint which went through the entire approval process believing they only had 139
spaces.
Mr. Pfeil commented that the site data table on the approved plan was incorrect, but the
actual delineation on the plan had the correct number of spaces.
Mr. Gendell stated at the last meeting they felt that the volumes at Walgreens and the
projected volumes at Starbucks did not require drastic measures to ensure adequate
circulation and safety of the site.
Mr. Gendell stated it appears that both traffic consultants are in agreement as to what
should happen on this site. He stated the originalPlan showed two drive aisles that were
two way drive aisles between the Walgreens and Starbucks. One drive aisle is 20 feet
and the other is 15 feet. The Village's consultant has recommended that those two drive
aisles be narrowed to 11 feet each and the landscaping increased, although there would be
a cut out for a by-pass lane in the Starbucks line. The Village consultant has expressed
concerns relative to refuse pickup. However, they are willing, by contract, to limit the
hours of pickup to non-peak Starbuck times. Their own traffic consultant, having studied
other Starbuck drive-throughs have indicated the stacking, even during peak hours,
amounts to no more than 6 cars at a time.
Mr. Gendell stated that during the maximum observed time at the other Starbuck drive
through, which will be appreciably busier than the proposed Starbucks, the average was
50 cars per hour and the maximum stacking was 6 cars. Therefore, the maximum that
any car could have been in line was 7 minutes. He stated that given the traffic counts at
the Walgreens during peak hours, and the relatively low traffic counts generated, you are
not talking about a hazardous situation. In fact, it provides an amenity that makes the
center better, makes citizen's lives easier and will facilitate better service to customers of
Starbucks.
Mr. Gendell stated they would like to incorporate the Village consultant's comments to
the original plan, going with 11 foot drives going two ways, increase the landscape buffer
to 27 feet with a cutout for a pass through. Now, instead of having basically two tree
planting islands in the center, you would have a 27 foot landscaped buffer with the moon
shaped cutout for the pass through.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000, Page 7
Commissioner Samuels stated that it its not clear what the developer is proposing since a
new plan has just been presented at the meeting this evening.
Mr. Gendell stated he wants to do is what they first came in with, with minor
modifications which are in accord with the Village's consultant.
Mr. Pfeil noted the Commission's packet contained the plan that the Village consultant
reviewed. He has not seen the sketch presented this evening by the developer.
Commissioner Samuels stated he would like to forget the revised plan handed out by the
developer this evening and just look at the original plan, compare it with what the
consultant said so they can modify same accordingly.
Commissioner Johnson noted that in referring to the "second plan," you are referring to
the fact that the traffic consultant reviewed the July 11,2000 plan.
Mr. Gendell noted that the traffic consultant has also reviewed the revised plan, which is
actually the plan that was originally submitted to the Village Board for referral.
Commissioner Samuels noted the July 11, 2000 plan shows a one way, eastbound aisle
going between the traffic island and the Walgreens drive through.
Mr. Gendell stated the major difference is that they have made the aisle one way.
Commissioner Samuels then noted the traffic consultant noted that instead of the one-way
aisle it would be better to leave it as two-way.
Mr. Gendell stated that was correct.
Commissioner Samuels noted the stacking space has been increased to nine spaces on the
revision and he would like that change to remain on the plan. He stated the defect,
probably also noted by the traffic consultant, is that the escape lane does not work. On
this plan a vehicle is trapped once is passes the landscaped island and someone pulls up
behind. Then if the driver decides to escape, the vehicle at the cash at the window creates
a very narrow throat that only accommodates one vehicle. He stated it would be better to
take the two bulges out of the landscape island and create a true escape lane that allows a
vehicle to exit the drive-through lane at any point.
Mr. Gendell stated they would like to widen the lane at the window so that there would
be enough room for two cars to get by the window for the escape lane.
Commissioner Samuels stated the lane has to be wide enough at all points to allow a
vehicle to exit at any time.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page 8
Mr. Gendell noted he had thought that increasing the green space was a favorable
objective. If the Commission believes the circulation overrides that concern, then it
would be easy to fix.
Commissioner Samuels stated the two-way traffic aisle north of the landscape area along
the drive-through is probably necessary.
�./ Chairman Ottenheimer stated he shares some of Commissioner Samuels' concerns about
the two-way traffic in between the Walgreens and Starbucks drive-through areas.
Commissioner Panitch stated he agrees with Commissioner Samuels that the by-pass
needs to be further east. In addition, the landscaped area between Walgreens and the new
large landscaped area stops at the pedestrian walkway on the west side. It should
continue on, and there should be some barrier that extends from the five foot landscaped
area westbound for the pedestrian area to prevent cars from coming out of the Starbucks
and cutting a corner and going into the Walgreens.
Commissioner Johnson stated he still has a problem with the layout at the mouth of the
drive-through area. He noted there are too many lane crossings for someone coming in
from Aptakisic Road and going straight south toward Starbucks. He noted the June 2,
2000 plan seems to be a better plan because the travel lane going into the loading area
only has to cut across one area as it has already by-passed the two drive throughs coming
from Walgreens as opposed to cutting straight across all four lanes as shown on the plan
dated June 27, 2000. He further noted the June 2, 2000 plan should be modified
according to the traffic consultant's comments to include the 11-foot lanes and the escape
lane. It seems that the area between the property line, the exit of the drive through and
the entrance at the mouth of the drive through for Starbucks has too many different traffic
directions going through it on the plan dated June 27, 2000.
Commissioner Samuels asked how the loading area will be handled.
Mr. Gendell stated none of the tenants now uses the back loading area. He stated they are
not planning to have rear loading of the tenants in a center of this size. He stated they
could specifically prohibit same.
Commissioner Johnson pointed out that people will be driving up and ordering right next
to the refuse container and this might create some new issues such as appearance and
odor.
Chairman Ottenheimer commented that this is not a minor issue as people might not use
the drive through if it is offensive, and apparently the drive-through is important to the
viability of the Starbucks.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the refuse area at the other end of the center could be
used.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page 9
Mr. Gendell stated Starbucks will not use the refuse area at the other end of the center
and what they throw out will smell like coffee.
Commissioner Trilling noted the recommendations are for an 11-foot two way traffic
aisle as well as a by pass lane which should even be extended. In addition,
Commissioner Panitch suggested extending the Walgreens island farther to the west. He
noted this gives you greater turning radii. However the bigger issue is whether to have
stacking or 24-hour access to the refuse area.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted there are certain stacking requirements that must be met.
Mr. Pfeil noted that after the plan with the six vehicle stacking spaces was presented to
the Village Board, the plan was revised prior to the first plan commission workshop. The
developer has increased the number of stacking spaces on the plan presented to the
Commission.
Commissioner Trilling suggested a polling to get a feel for where the commission feels
the stacking issue belongs. Should the loading refuse area be sacrificed from a 24-hour
basis to a scheduled basis to facilitate greater stacking or should there be 24-hour access
to the refuse area and have a shorter stacking lane.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated the greater consideration has to do with safety, and this
means that the stacking should be increased.
Commissioner Smith stated he agrees with Chairman Ottenheimer that there should be
more stacking.
Commissioner Johnson stated that although the layout of the loading area is a problem,
he would prefer that the stacking be increased to the 9-vehicle design.
Commissioners Trilling, Samuels and Panitich concurred that the preferred design would
provide a 9-vehicle stacking lane.
Commissioner Samuels noted he would push the order sign farther east.
Mr. Gendell stated he disagrees and what you really want is to have the order sign further
west because otherwise you have the potential to have stacking into the aisle. The
further west the order sign is,the less potential you have to get stacking into the drive.
Commissioner Trilling stated there is a blind corner at the pedestrian crosswalk near the
exiting area of the Starbucks drive-through. He suggested a railing system installed at the
end of that sidewalk and to pulling people 5 to 8 feet away from the building before they
start crossing the area so they can look around the corner for on-coming vehicles.
Mr. Gendell stated they agree.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page t0
Commissioner Trilling asked that the turning radii be verified for the next meeting.
Commissioner Panitch asked if the refuse area could be moved.
Mr. Gendell stated they believe this is the best area. He will, however, look to see if
there is additional screening that can be provided to soften the refuse area for the drive up
customers.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if the Commission thinks the plan is ready for a public
hearing.
Commissioner Johnson stated the issue of whether to have a public hearing is really the
petitioner's risk. Therefore, if the petitioner is willing to take the risk that the hearing
may be continued,he would favor going with a public hearing.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked for a polling.
Those in favor of a public hearing were: Smith,Johnson,Trilling, Samuels,Panitch
Commissioner Trilling noted it would be helpful for the public hearing to be as detailed
as possible in the plan, showing landscaping and signage.
Trustee Berman suggested the petitioner bring photographs or a video of the other
Starbucks drive through site be brought to the public hearing to help the commission and
the board have a better understanding of the circumstances on the site.
PRAIRIE ROAD II SUBDIVISION—FINAL PLAT
Moved by Commissioner Johnson, seconded by Commissioner Smith to recommend
approval of the Prairie Road II Final Plat.
Chairman Ottenheimer called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: Trilling,Panitch, Smith, Ottenheimer
NAYES: None
ABSTAIN: Johnson, Samuels
ABSENT: Dunn,Feldgreber
The motion passed 4 to 0.
Chairman Ottenheimer congratulated Commissioner Johnson on his appointment to the
l� Po
Village Board.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page I
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated the next meeting will be on August 16, 2000 concerning the antenna
tower on the Cotey property at Milwaukee Avenue and Estonian Lane.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS—None
STAFF REPORT—None
NEW BUSINESS—None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Johnson, seconded by Commissioner Trilling and carried
unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Ottenheimer adjourned the meeting at 9:20 p.m.
Respectfully submittgd,
.._,,- -11.--( 6:t,‘A—
Fay Rubin, ecording Secretary
API VE Y:
1
LESTER 0 FI'LNHEIMER,Chair
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-August 2,2000,Page 12