2000-07-05 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
July 5,2000
Proposed Culver's restaurant with drive-through facility,
Buffalo Grove Town Center, 1.6-acre site northeast of Town Place,
Adjacent to Illinois Route 83,Amendment of a Planned Unit Development
(P.U.D.) and Preliminary Plan and approval of a Special Use for a
drive-through facility in the Commercial Sub-district of the B-5 Town
Center Planned District—Workshop#1
Proposed Starbucks Coffee shop,the Shops at Aptakisic Creek,
Southeast corner of Buffalo Grove Road/Aptakisic Road,Amendment
Of a Planned Unit Development(P.U.D.) and Preliminary Plan in the
B-3 District and variation of the Zoning Ordinance concerning stacking
Spaces for a drive-through facility—Workshop#1
Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council
Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove,
Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Trilling
Mr. Feldgreber
Mr. Johnson
Mr. Panitch
Mr. Smith
Commissioners absent: Ms. Dunn
Also present: Mr. Michael Werchek
Mr. Douglas Bean, Terraco, Inc.
Mr. Scott Gendell, Terraco, Inc.
Mr. Jack Barbaccia, Stewart Nosky Architects, Ltd.
Mr. Donald O'Hara, Kenig, Lindgren, O'Hara, Aboona,
Inc.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Trilling, seconded by Commissioner Samuels to approve the
minutes of the public hearing and regular meeting of May 3, 2000. Chairman
Ottenheimer noted the need for capitalization on page 1 of the public hearing minutes.
Commissioner Johnson noted that on page 11, paragraph 3 should stated that he had
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 1
worked with Mr. Francke on several developments in the Village of Green Oaks, but not
with Mr. Werchek as a builder.
All Commissioners were in favor of the amended motion and the motion passed
unanimously with Commissioner Smith abstaining.
Moved by Commissioner Trilling, seconded by Commissioner Samuels to approve the
minutes of the public hearing and regular minutes of May 17, 2000. All Commissioners
were in favor of the motion and the motion passed unanimously with commissioner
Feldgreber abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Panitch attended the Village Board meeting on June 19, 2000 and stated
the following items were discussed:
1. Referral of Starbucks development
2. Arboretum Golf Course is being reviewed and will come to the Plan Commission
shortly
3. Public hearing concerning the annexation agreement for the Chabad Synagogue
and pre-school was continued
4. Appointment of new commissions
PROPOSED CULVER'S RESTAURANT WITH DRIVE-THROUGH FACILITY,
BUFFALO GROVE TOWN CENTER, 1.6-ACRE SITE NORTHEAST OF TOWN
PLACE. ADJACENT TO ILLINOIS ROUTE 83,AMENDMENT OF A PLANNED
UNIT DEVELOPMENT(P.U.D.) AND PRELIMINARY PLAN AND APPROVAL OF
A SPECIAL USE FOR A DRIVE-THROUGH FACILITY IN THE COMMERCIAL
SUB-DISTRICT OF THE B-5 TOWN CENTER PLANNED DISTRICT—WORKSHOP
Mr. Michael Werchek stated he is presenting the plans for a Culver's Restaurant which
he and his wife will own personally. Culver's is a franchise based in Wisconsin where it
was started in 1984. They have currently opened their 100th store and it is a chain
coming to this area rapidly. They feature butter burgers and custard. It is a fast food
restaurant but also a family restaurant as everything is cooked to order. They also need a
bigger store than most McDonald's or Burger King's due to the custard they produce.
This is much more of an eat-in restaurant than take out. This is evident also in the trends
for drive through lanes. Since food is made to order, it takes a little longer to get the food
so they find their drive-throughs are not as busy as McDonald's or Burger King's.
Mr. Werchek stated that Culver's is a family-owned operation with a controlled business
expansion plan. They also have extensive training for owners. They also encourage the
training of managers well before store opens.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 2
Mr. Werchek stated he has also purchased a site in Vernon Hills, which was to be his first
store. However, the Buffalo Grove site now has priority and will be developed ahead of
the Vernon Hills store. Culver's has approved the site and the proposed owners.
Mr. Werchek stated the location of the driveway connection from Route 83 appears to be
acceptable based on the required distance from Route 83. The handicapped-accessible
parking spaces are as close to the main entrance as possible. He further stated they could
slide them over somewhat if necessary. The parking stalls are properly dimensioned and
conform to Village standards. He noted there are 69 parking spaces on the plan.
Mr. Werchek stated they looked at the drive-through lane very carefully, not wanting it to
back up or disrupt any other traffic flow. Currently, Culver's operates by having the car
order and pay and then pull up into one of the four spaces to wait for the food to be
brought out to the car. He noted they have room for stacking 12 cars without
encroaching into any of the other parking spaces. There is also a by-pass lane for
motorists who want to leave the drive-through lane.
Mr. Werchek stated the dumpster encroaches on the front yard setback and they are
hoping that some extra landscaping and added greenery will make this location
acceptable.
Mr. Werchek stated the dumpster would have the same materials as the building. He
suggested that a roof over the dumpster could screen the area from adjacent residences.
Mr. Werchek stated the HVAC is hidden in the roof. He said that he will conform to any
Village standards for the outdoor lighting.
Mr. Werchek stated the biggest issue is the use of Culver's corporate colors for the
facility. They would like to use a split-faced block that looks like an oversized brick.
The colors are white and blue. He noted there is a bluish-gray shingle that corporate has
approved for Vernon Hills and other locations where the roof color became an issue.
Mr. Werchek stated they have top of the line equipment in the stores and the equipment is
constantly updated so any odors should be minimized.
Mr. Werchek noted they would like to have a few tables with umbrellas outside the
facility. The hours of the restaurant are roughly 10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
Commissioner Johnson asked if there are any Culver's restaurants that have used any
other color than white.
Mr. Werchek stated that color has not been a big issue for Culver's stores in Wisconsin.
He stated the blue-gray shingles have been used only two times so far. They have
recently gone to the split face block stone look, which gives it a more rustic look. He
noted the colors are a problem as the interior will be blue and white. He noted he will
discuss the colors with the corporate officers.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 3
Commissioner Johnson said that his preference would be for something other than white
and blue and something that would match the rest of Town Center's buildings. As far as
the dumpster, he would prefer to see it somewhere else, other than facing Route 83.
Commissioner Feldgreber asked if 4 spaces for cars in the waiting area are sufficient.
Mr. Werchek stated that is sufficient and the flow works quite well.
Commissioner Feldgreber asked if the outside tables and benches would be concrete with
blue canopies.
Mr. Werchek stated the tables and benches are concrete and the tables are usually placed
right in the front of the building. The canopies so far have all been in blue and this will
need to be discussed. He asked if stone would be something the commission would like
in an earth tone.
Commissioner Johnson stated he does not think it is the material itself as the color that
would be a problem.
Commissioner Panitch asked how long the drive-through service takes.
Mr. Werchek stated it is four minutes from the time it is ordered. As soon as it is ordered
at the microphone it gets automatically sent to all the stations and that order is put in
immediately. When the first car leaves the speaker and then pays and pulls up, for the
food it is about four minutes.
Commissioner Panitch asked what the percentage is for the drive-through customers
compared to walk-ins.
Mr. Werchek stated he would be able to get that information for a later date.
Commissioner Panitch stated he concurs with the other commissioners about the contrast
in color more so than the actual proposed colors being out of place.
Commissioner Panitch asked if there would be outdoor lighting for the tables outside.
Mr. Werchek stated no. There will be five to six tables outside only and they would be
served by the lights from the building and the parking lot.
Commissioner Panitch stated he has some concerns about the traffic flow.
Mr. Werchek stated most cars will come off from Route 83.
Commissioner Trilling asked if the parking on the south side of the parcel, which is
actually outside of the parcel, is useable for the restaurant.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 4
Mr. Werchek stated he is not sure of the cross easement there as yet. However, he feels
that 69 parking spots should make them pretty self-sufficient based on numbers. The
Village only recommended roughly 45 spaces for the site. He stated he will find out
about cross easements.
Commissioner Trilling stated he does not feel the drive-through needs to be as wide as it
is and that the encroachment could be shrunk on the landscape area along Route 83.
Therefore, he suggests narrowing that secondary method of egress.
Commissioner Trilling asked that the plan clearly designate areas that will be landscaped
in front and on the sides of the facility.
Commissioner Trilling noted the dumpster location could be placed against the building
and thereby unifying the entire structure instead of having a separate building, which
draws more attention. Possibly attaching to the rear of the building and arranging for
trash pickup when the restaurant is not open would help by not interfering with the drive
through in any way.
Commissioner Johnson commented that if a notch were put in the building, there would
be room to incorporates the dumpster into the building.
Commissioner Trilling stated traffic is going in a northerly direction when leaving the
drive through. He recommended eliminating any traffic going southbound parallel to
Route 83, which will help with any confusion by people leaving the drive through.
Commissioner Trilling asked where the sewer easement is across the property.
Mr. Werchek stated the sewer can be relocated and will be relocated to the back of the
parking lot.
Commissioner Trilling said he recognizes that this restaurant is new to the Chicagoland
area and one would hope it would be successful. The facility may be more successful if it
has its own visual identity rather than looking exactly like the other buildings in Town
Center.
Commissioner Samuels asked if the developer would be willing to go with a shingle roof.
Mr. Werchek stated he is open to that and is looking for direction.
Commissioner Samuels stated the fact is that the Town Center does have green standing
seam roofs and he therefore sees no objection to a metal roof. The big question will be
how the blue fights the green. He suggested the architects superimpose an elevation of
the building against the backdrop of the center.
Commissioner Samuels stated he agrees somewhat with Commissioner Panitch's
comments on circulation and noted some of those problems would go away if the
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 5
entrance were moved further to the west and let everyone access the main flow more
directly.
Commissioner Johnson stated it would be very beneficial to move the driveway farther
southwest both in terms of the proximity to Route 83 and on site direction. In addition he
noted he would not like to see white landscape stone incorporated in this facility as it is in
the other Culver facilities.
Commissioner Feldgreber asked the developer to bring several different roof colors along
for the next workshop.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked that some thought be given to heavy landscaping along
Route 83 in order to lessen the impact of the stacking of cars in the drive through that you
see as you drive by. In addition this would shield some of the headlight glare from those
cars. He further stated he is not in favor of the blue and white color scheme for this
location. The materials are fine but the colors need to be in harmony with the other
buildings in the Town Center. He also noted he does not like the present dumpster
location and noted that if the dumpster cannot be relocated he would like to see a roof
cover the dumpster.
Commissioner Smith commented that the muted blue would not be a problem. He noted
he does not feel that everything must look like the other buildings in Town Center.
PROPOSED STARBUCKS COFFEE SHOP.THE SHOPS AT APTAKISIC CREEK,
SOUTHEAST CORNER OF BUFFALO GROVE ROAD/APTAKISIC ROAD,
AMENDMENT OF A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT(P.U.D.)AND
PRELIMINARY PLAN IN THE B-3 DISTRICT AND VARIATION OF THE ZONING
ORDINANCE CONCERNING STACKING SPACES FOR A DRIVE-THROUGH
FACILITY—WORKSHOP#1
Mr. Gendell stated they have signed a letter of intent with Starbucks for a location at
Aptakisic and Buffalo Grove Road. The store would 1,950 square feet and the retail
building measures out to 12,720 square feet. The site plan approved in 1998 listed 137
parking spaces in the data table, but 149 spaces were actually provided. The proposed
plan shows 134 spaces. The code requires 119 spaces.
Mr. Gendell stated approximately 50 percent of Starbuck's business will be generated
through the drive through. Their peak hours will be done before 12:00 noon on any given
day. He noted there is a similar Starbucks at a shopping center at Army Trail Road and
Route 59 in Bartlett. The Starbucks there is at the end cap also. In addition that 10,000
square foot center shares a parking lot with a 17,000 square foot gymnastics academy.
That particular center also backs up to and is contiguous to a neighborhood that has
homes close a million dollars in value. The center works well, the Starbucks performs
nicely and he invites all to see how that site functions. This particular site has six car
stacking and that intersection has 30 percent more traffic than the intersection in question
this evening. Therefore, they anticipate not doing as much volume as that shopping
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 6
center. He noted KLOA has surveyed the area and found a maximum stack at peak hours
in the morning of six cars and an evening maximum stacking of five cars.
Mr. Gendell noted their plan shows two additional stacking spaces, which would really
be for emergency overflow and do cross the loading area. In a center of this size, they
have two loading points, one on each side of the center. Those loading points are
primarily used for refuse removal and most stocking of stores is done in front loaded
basis for service oriented stores. Additionally, they have narrowed the east and
westbound lanes between the Walgreens drive through and the Starbucks drive through.
Instead they have created a 22 foot landscaped belt between the Starbucks drive through
and those two lanes. He noted that if he could generate a significant landscape belt there,
he could do something substantial in terms of creating some evergreens and real
screening that will highlight and augment the strip. This 22 foot wide green belt will
substantially improve the aesthetic of that end cap. Additionally, this creates an easier
movement into the drive through lane for people in the westbound to eastbound lane. If
you push these people further away from the drive through out, it is an easier movement
for them to make. Secondly, it gives some increased room to do some substantial
landscaping on that end cap which is sorely needed.
Mr. Gendell noted that the drive through for the Walgreens was there mainly as an
accommodation. It is a minimal traffic generator. The analysis for Starbucks peak times
shows there is no single time period within that range that has move than four cars per
hour. The potential for conflict of movement is very minimal between those two users.
Mr. Gendell stated this is an important lease for the center and the community. It will
create a buzz in the center and it is supported by the Walgreens. It will also compliment
the other tenants. It will offer traffic relief in terms how the shopping center is parked in
the future. This lease will distinguish this center amongst other centers in terms of
working for higher end users.
Mr. Gendell stated they have added a stop sign just north of the Walgreens for east bound
traffic in that drive aisle. Also there is a do not enter sign at the mouth of the drive
through for Starbucks so that people will not go in the wrong way there. Additionally,
there is a stop sign at the end of the median cut for the Walgreens drive through as you
are going westbound in between Walgreens and Starbucks.
Commissioner Ottenheimer stated he senses there is no problem with a Starbucks but
only with the drive-through.
Commissioner Samuels stated his concern is with the drive through. Even assuming
there is no problem that cannot be worked out between the traffic flows between the
Walgreens and Starbucks drive through, he has a serious problem with the 15 spaces that
would be removed from the side of the building. Now there are two drive through lanes
going in two different directions. He stated this now causes pedestrian problems as you
have now virtually segregated the parking for this center from the Walgreens center. He
noted he does not like the idea of people walking past two drive through lanes in order to
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 7
park and get into this center. He stated he feels this will be a serious problem in terms of
sufficient parking, especially when the center is leased out.
Mr. Gendell stated he would welcome anyone talking to the Village of Bartlett's planner
because they have a very similar situation there in terms of end cap parking, sufficient
parking space, etc. He noted this plan is 16 spaces over code and they are also talking
about a component of Starbucks that will actually alleviate a parking problem.
Commissioner Samuels noted the excessive length of time it takes to get an order in
Starbucks due to the type of drinks they make. Therefore, he will need a lot of
convincing that this drive through can work. He also noted, that the Walgreens drive
throughs appears to be getting more use. Things do catch on and where it is anticipated
that not many people go through the drive throughs, they are likely to be used more and
more in the future.
Mr. Genell urged the commission to get out to the Starbucks in Bartlett during peak hours
in the morning and check out the drive through to see how well it works. Mr. Bean noted
they have the same cross pedestrian traffic in the Bartlett location and there they have the
gymnastics academy with lots of mothers and children crossing the drive through lanes
and all works fine and they have not had a single complaint.
Mr. Gendell stated he has no concerns that they are underparked. He noted they would
not be able to lease the center if they were.
Commissioner Panitch noted there are only four of the 127 Starbucks have drive-
throughs.
Mr. Gendell stated the drive-throughs are a new concept in the Chicago area for
Starbucks and they are trying to do it wherever and whenever possible. There is a much
higher likelihood of getting a deal approved with a drive through. He noted they have
tried for nine months to get a Starbucks approved at the proposed location. The only way
to get an approval from Starbucks was with a drive through. This deal is approved
contingent upon a drive through.
Commissioner Panitch stated he has the same concerns as Commissioner Samuels
relative to pedestrian traffic. He noted there are no walkways shown for pedestrians and
would like to see it for the next workshop.
Commissioner Johnson asked if the Bartlett location has three different traffic directions.
Mr. Gendell stated no.
Commissioner Johnson then noted that the proposed development in Buffalo Grove is a
more severe traffic situation than in Bartlett.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 8
Mr. Gendell stated the Bartlett lot is tighter and more convoluted although it does not
have as many directions.
Commissioner Johnson noted if there is someone southbound behind the Walgreens who
has to cross the exiting drive through traffic, which could be as many as 10 per hour, and
then cross the eastbound lane of the through traffic line to get to the loading area. This
will cause a great deal of confusion. If there are more than 8 cars in the staging area, it
will back up into the northbound traffic lane for going behind the Walgreens. Secondly,
if anyone comes from the west to the east and wants to make a sharp right hand turn
around to get into the staging area, that would also cause a traffic tie up. In short, this
traffic configuration is trying to fit something into an area where it will not work.
Mr. Donald O'Hara of KLOA stated they are currently in the process of completing the
traffic study. He noted they have asked for modification to the site plan relative to the
circulation. There are two lanes being served by the drive-through, which are going
contrary to the lanes that are for through traffic. He stated they have taken and narrowed
the lane down so that there are two lanes but have also put in an 18 foot median. The
width of that median can be bermed and landscaped which will hide the volume of traffic.
Commissioner Johnson stated his concern is that at the confluence of the exit from the
Walgreens drive through and the two through lanes and the mouth of the proposed drive
through which all merge at the location where there is a stop sign. Southbound traffic
from behind the Walgreens has to cross over the proposed drive through traffic as well as
the proposed eastbound through traffic in order to get to the drive through lane for the
Starbucks.
Mr. O'Hara stated the volume of the driveway between the proposed Starbucks and the
Walgreens is relatively low. It will not be anywhere near the volume going across the
front of the store and almost all of the driveways when you have a typical shopping
center have parking bays running up to the front of the store. You therefore have cars
circling around continuously with cars going in each direction and pedestrian flows
crossing them. The problem is anyone coming in is going across the Walgreens drive
anyway. Now anyone coming in here that has a desire to go into the drive through will
look for traffic. This is not an unusual situation.
Commissioner Johnson stated in his opinion it is an unacceptable situation because it will
cause traffic tie ups and a bad traffic flow.
Commissioner Samuels noted the annexation agreement provides for 2,000 square feet of
restaurant space in the center. He asked if Papa Johns qualify as a restaurant for that
purpose and would this then bring that issue into focus.
Mr. Pfeil stated Papa Johns does not have seating and therefore technically it does not
count as a restaurant for purposes of those calculations for the annexation agreement.
The Starbucks space is approximately 2,000 square feet, would basically uses the
maximum amount of restaurant space allowed on the property.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 9
Commissioner Samuels asked if this entire facility count as the 2,000 square feet even
though they may only be dedicating about 500 square feet within the facility for seating.
Mr. Pfeil stated the Starbucks is approximately 2,000 square feet and that is all the
restaurant space that this center would get.
Commissioner Feldgreber stated he does not have a problem with the drive up, although
the traffic does look a bit confusing. However, he is leaning more to a pedestrian
crossing and how the sidewalks will be tied together as well as perhaps adding another
landing area for people to stop and be able to look both ways. Can the island on the
Walgreens side be extended or something.
Mr. O'Hara stated he can do that but it takes Walgreens to be included in that. It gets
down to the fact that Walgreens is not generating a lot of volumes to their drive through.
There is a painted median here which could have been a barrier median. There are a
number of things that could be done on the Walgreens side but that is their property.
Commissioner Feldgreber noted it is a very large staging area for two lanes of drive up.
If Walgreens took the opening to a single lane it would help the developer out a great
deal.
Mr. Gendell stated they could create a nice walkway from Walgreens for pedestrians.
Commissioner Smith stated he loves this use and would love to have it here. He stated he
has no concerns with the parking. Papa Johns is mainly delivery and the cleaners is in
and out quickly. However, he has concerns with the stacking and the traffic pattern and
the traffic expert seems to have no concerns.
Mr. O'Hara stated the volumes they have collected on this site are fairly low. Once they
evaluate the numbers they will look at the conflicting movements and how to control
them.
Commissioner Smith suggested having the Village traffic consultant look at this plan.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked what happens if the volumes go up and suddenly the low
volumes in this center are outgrown.
Mr. Gendell stated if drive-throughs become full, people tend to come inside. Drive
throughs are a self-limiting amenity. Therefore, even if traffic grows and volumes grow,
people will seek the least time consuming means of getting whatever product they are in
search of.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted the zoning ordinance requires a stacking lane for service
windows to accommodate a minimum of ten vehicles.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 10
Mr. Gendell stated they have shown stacking for eight vehicles which they believe is
overkill. However, they are asking for a variation since the standard of 10 spaces is not
provided on the plan.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted Mr. Pfeil's memo asking the petitioner to describe current
and proposed practices concerning deliveries and other services for all of the other
tenants.
Mr. Gendell stated the one thing he touched upon is that centers of this size, service-
oriented centers are typically front loading. The two delivery spaces on either side of the
building really accommodates refuse pick up which can be scheduled for non-peak hours.
He stated he will commit to scheduled pick-ups that do not conflict with peak Starbuck
times.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil noted the next meeting will be July 19,2000.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS
Ms. Diane Garber asked if there would be a traffic signal at the exit from the proposed
Culver's restaurant onto Route 83.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated no.
Mr. Garber noted that the experience of Culver's outside of Wisconsin is an uphill
struggle. The taste profile for this type of restaurant in Buffalo Grove is much different
than other locations where Culver's has located.
Commissioner Samuels noted that this is a question for the Plan Commission basically of
use and planning issues, not ultimate viability. He noted Ms. Garber is really speaking of
investment issues, which is not an area that the Plan Commission addresses in terms of
planning review.
STAFF REPORT-None
NEW BUSINESS -None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Feldgreber, seconded by Commissioner Panitch and carried
unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Ottenheimer adjourned the meeting at 9:55 p.m.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 11
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Ru in,Re o ding Secretary
APE BY:
ESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission-Regular Meeting-July 5,2000-Page 12