1990-03-14 - Plan Commission - Minutes SPECIAL MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Strathmore Shopping Center
Carlyle Unit 2
Village Zoning Map
March 14, 1990
Chairman Sheldon called the Special Meeting to order at 7:33 P.M. in the
Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Sheldon
Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Krug
Ms. Howard
Mr. Braiman
Mr. Rubin
Mr. Rosenston
Mr. Charlette
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Rhodes
Also Present: Mr. Olsen, Rainbow Path Child Care Center
Mr. Edward Schwartz, Edward Schwartz & Co.
Mr. Jim Sylverne, Village Building and Zoning
Department
Mr. Gary Glover, Village Trustee
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Charlette, to approve
the minutes of the Regular Meeting of January 17, 1990. The motion passed
unanimously.
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Charlette, to approve
the minutes of the Regular Meeting of January 31, 1990, as amended. The motion
passed unanimously.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Rosenston attended the Village Board meeting of March 5, 1990, at
which the following matters were discussed:
1) Mormon Church, with a name change, a change in the number of events,
and timing for road improvements;
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission - Special Meeting - March 14, 1990 - Page 1
2) Weiland Road Industrial property referred to the Plan Commission; and
3) Carlyle Unit 2 zoning.
Commissioner Goldspiel attended the Village Board meeting of March 12, 1990, at
which the budget was discussed.
STRATHMORE SHOPPING CENTER, Arlington Heights Road/Route 83
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Since the owner of the commercial property was not present, Mr. Pfeil explained
the background. He stated that a problem exists whereby the space between the
fence on the commercial property line and some of the fences on the residential
create an area for littering and kids congregating. A proposed solution is to
have a one-fence system to eliminate any type of passageway. Mr. Pfeil stated
that at the east property line the commercial fence could easily be relocated
to the residential; however, on the south property line there is a retaining
wall that is higher than the residential.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that people also use this area as an access to
the commercial center and noted that some residents had indicated they would
like to maintain some access to the center. He suggested that in addition to
repairing the existing fence on the commercial property, the best alternative
would be to move the residential fences rather than the commercial. He
indicated in particular it would not be recommended to move the fence by the
day care center play yard both for reasons of safety and appearance and for
noise control as it abuts the residential.
Commissioner Goldspiel suggested that the two lot owners having the solid wood
5-ft. fences should put in either lower fences or ones they could see through
to be able to monitor the congregating. He stated if access is to be cut off,
then a fence would be needed at 1121 Belmar.
Chairman Sheldon noted that a safety and security issue exists as well in this
area because it is dark at night and cannot be viewed from the street for
patrolling by the Police Department.
Discussion followed regarding the area and the congregating that occurs.
Chairman Sheldon suggested that if the area were better lit it might not be as
attractive to kids. Commissioner Goldspiel also noted that this is an example
of the reason that buffering is now attempted instead to be achieved through
plantings, bermings and the positioning of buildings rather than with fencing.
Commissioner Braiman commented that they could not dictate to residents what
they should do to their fences.
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Commissioner Goldspiel stated that because 12 ft. is the required setback, the
shopping center should be required to maintain the area between the fences,
which Mr. Sylverne of Building and Zoning described as grassy and trampled.
There was discussion regarding gates and access to the area, including a gate
at the north and from the commercial to allow access for maintenance and a gate
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission - Special Meeting - March 14, 1990 - Page 2
at the west end at 1187 Alden and the east end at 1173 Alden. Mr. Sylverne
noted that the gates are consistently repaired and subsequently kicked down.
Mr. Olsen, owner of Rainbow Path, indicated that the reason the fence is
designed as it is was pursuant to Village request ten years ago. He reiterated
the problem of kids congregating, smoking, drinking and littering, and noted
the high incidence of vandalism. Mr. Olsen proposed that on the east end the
fence be moved over to the property line because that land is level and about
the same height as the residential. In the back there is a swail designed by
the Village Engineer to be a drainage ditch so it cannot be filled in or built
over. Therefore, Mr. Olsen proposes at that end they fix the fence, take off
the gates at both ends and allow access which would occur anyway but could now
be better patrolled because Police would be able to see into the area from the
ends.
Commissioner Braiman noted that if you bring the fence to the property line at
the east end some cut-through would be eliminated because it would cut off any
access, assuming access is made through 1121 Belmar, the only area with no
fence.
In response to a question from Commissioner Rosenston, Mr. Olsen explained that
the reason the fence is in 12 feet on the east end from 1111 Belmar is because
the residents originally requested the fence setback as a buffer, and
subsequently only two of the three adjacent homes built fences.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that if the fence were moved 12 feet closer to
the residential at that end, the buffer between the residential and the Rainbow
Path play yard would be reduced by that amount.
In response to a question from Chairman Sheldon, Mr. Olsen explained that
children are in the play yard at lunchtime from 11:00 to 12:30 and in the
afternoon from 3:30 to as late as 6:00 in the summer. No more than 50 children
are in the yard at any one time.
There was discussion regarding moving the fence to the property line on the
east side. Commissioner Goldspiel stated he feels it leaves the area at that
end too isolated. On the south end, Mr. Rubin suggested the fence be extended
to 1197 Alden, up to the shopping center fence. Brief discussion ensued
regarding the lining up of fences at that end of the property, elevation
differences, and heights that would be requested to achieve needed screening.
During discussion with Mr. Olsen, Commissioner Braiman suggested he might
approach the property owners on the end and allow them use of the 12-ft. area
up to his fence if they took down their fences. Mr. Olsen indicated they had
been advised not to do this because of the liability and he further stated his
mortgage company will not grant an easement because the area is for drainage.
Mr. Olsen restated his suggestion that both ends be opened to allow people to
pass through but to have visibility for patrolling the area. Lengthy
discussion followed regarding changes and alternatives.
Mr. Pfeil asked if Mr. Olsen would contact the residents of 1111 and 1121
Belmar regarding relocation of the fence. Mr. Olsen stated that if the
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission - Special Meeting - March 14, 1990 - Page 3
Commission recommends he relocate the fence, he will do so but he would not
assume responsibility for negotiating in anyway with the residents.
Commissioner Goldspiel indicated the need to make sure relocation of the fence
would not aggravate the drainage. Commissioner Goldspiel also stated the fence
should be designed to be continuous.
The impact of suggested changes was further discussed at length.
CARLYLE UNIT 2, Prairie Road, Brandywyn Lane
Mr. Edward Schwartz explained that the proposed Unit 2 of this subdivision is a
mirror image of the first with the exception of the grantingof an R-3
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transitional zoning with R-2 zoning on the balance of the property. The lots
in the R-2 area would be 15,000 sq. ft. In response to a question from
Commissioner Goldspiel, Mr. Schwartz indicated they would be offering the same
product as in the first phase utilizing the existing models. He stated the
size lots had forced them to go to a more expensive product and the homes are
2,400-3,500 sq. ft. and have a base price range of $232,000-$300,000. He noted
they could serve a larger market for a smaller size home at a lower price if
their lot sizes were able to be reduced, preferably to those allowed in an R-4
district.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked about completion of Brandywyn and whether the
Village has full right-of-way
west of this property. Mr. Pfeil advised he
would check on this subject.
Commissioner Braiman expressed concern regarding safety in having two
cul-de-sac areas opposite each other on a collector street, and asked that the
traffic engineer review that arrangement.
Discussion was raised regarding zoning. Commissioner Braiman noted that the
same size house could be built on an R-3 lot as on an R-2 lot. Mr. Schwartz
indicated they have the most demand for the homes on the smaller lots, and
stated they could build 40-42 homes if they had R-3 zoning as opposed to 35
homes with the R-2 zoning. With R-4 zoning they could build about 66 lots.
Commissioner Braiman commented that the market today is for more home and less
land.
Commissioner Rosenston stated it was important to look at the possibilities for
the properties to the south and west when considering zoning of the adjacent
parcels, especially an R-4 zoning.
Mr. George Sperber, owner of one acre of property across the street from
Brandywyn, commented on the problem of debris from the current construction.
He then stated that he is favorable to the development and its appearance, but
would not like to see parcels less than 1-1k acres each.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission - Special Meeting - March 14, 1990 - Page 4
Commissioner Braiman asked for clarification between lot sizes in zoning
districts. Mr. Pfeil stated R-2 zoning calls for 15,000 sq. ft. lots; R-3 for
10,000 sq. ft. ; and R-4 for 8.750 sq. ft.
In response to a question from Chairman Sheldon, Mr. Schwartz stated on in an
R-2 zoningdistrict he could build approximately 1.7 homes per acre; in an R-3
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district 2.2-2.5 homes per acre; and in R-4 approximately 3.3 homes per acre.
Commissioner Charlette asked what the acreage is of each unit of the
subdivision. Mr. Schwartz stated each section is approximately 20 acres.
In response to a question from Commissioner Goldspiel, Mr. Schwartz indicated
that excluding calculations for streets, right-of-way, and detention, a house
would sit on approximately 1/3 acre in an R-2 zone.
Chairman Sheldon indicated that there had been a need in developing the streets
to provide a means to get from Aptakisic Road north other than by Prairie Road
and noted they had requested that the street through the subdivision be stubbed
to connect to the next phase of the development. Chairman Sheldon suggested
that the stub should be located further west of where it is shown on the plan
to place it more in the middle of the property. Chairman Sheldon also noted
that the street will be developed in a winding fashion to eliminate traffic
safety hazards.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the detention area would be located at the
lowest portion of the property. Mr. Schwartz advised they would be regrading
the area, but believe that would be the general location, and noted the pitch
is from east to west.
Chairman Sheldon asked if the developer had discussed donation to the Park
District. Mr. Schwartz indicated at the request of the Park District they had
satisfied their obligation by a cash donation in the first phase and would
likely do the same in this phase.
Commissioner Braiman asked if they had considered developing the two detention
areas as one unit which would have created a larger park-like area. Mr.
Schwartz indicated they did not have the second parcel at the time of
developing the first.
Nr. Sperber expressed concern about additional traffic coming out onto Prairie
Road. Commissioner Charlette indicated the plan is to go out south to
Aptakisic, not out Brandywyn, and no other access onto Prairie is contemplated.
Chairman Sheldon called for comments from Mr. Pfeil, who stated the need to
look beyond the boundaries of the plan to how the development fits with the
highway system and the Village water and sewer.
Mr. Pfeil stated that with respect to density, the master plan had called for
larger lots in the northern part of the Village but that planning goals do
adapt to market feasibility and housing need, thereby sometimes stepping down
from what the master plan recommends.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission - Special Meeting - March 14, 1990 - Page 5
Commissioner Goldspiel commented he feels R-4 zoning would be appropriate for
the entire parcel, but suggested the Commission consider R-3 zoning in the
portion of the property between Brandywyn and the detention area which would be
compatible with the R-3 zoning on the parcel to the north, with the remainder
of the property staying at R-2.
Commissioner Braiman stated they should consider contemplated zoning of the
properties to the south and west.
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Possible zoning patters were presented. Commissioner Rosenston suggested an
R-2/R-3 mix with R-2 on the west, thereby still allowing R-1 to the west of
that.
Commissioner Braiman suggested a mix to the while area would create more
character than a single continuous area.
Chairman Sheldon suggested R-2 zoning around the edge on the west and south of
the parcel transitioning to an R-3 or R-4 mix in the middle.
Commissioner Krug suggested either an R-2/R-3 or R-3/R-4 zoning, allowing the
developer to mix.
During discussion, Chairman Sheldon stated the R-2 border with an R-3 and R-4
mix would create a good transition along Prairie and the Creek, would provide
more character and would give the developer more ability to be creative, noting
the need to provide more flexibility for a site this small.
Commissioner Rubin cautioned that in light of the fact that the parcel was
referred for R-2 zoning, it might be inadvisable to give the developer
direction that may not ultimately be fruitful for the time and effort put in
for changes. He suggested R-2 and R-3 might be appropriate, but felt any
suggestion for R-4 would be a waste of time.
Commissioner Braiman asked Trustee Glover for the background and comments
regarding the Village Board's desire and recommendation for R-2 zoning on this
site, especially in light of the fact that the property abuts R-4 and R-8 to
the north and west.
Trustee Glover explained that the overall density in the surrounding R-4 use is
reduced because it is adjacent to the golf course, and the R-2 was looked at as
a transition to estate zoning to the north. He further indicated there was
consideration to the need for a balanced housing stock in the Village including
larger lot zoning. Brief discussion ensued.
Commissioner Rubin suggested a poll be taken to provide specific direction for
the developer.
Chairman Sheldon called for a poll for those in favor of the entire site to be
zoned R-2. All Commissioners voted against this proposal, indicating the Plan
Commission's desire for an alternative to straight R-2 zoning on this parcel.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission - Special Meeting - March 14, 1990 - Page 6
Chairman Sheldon called for another poll for those in favor of a mix of R-2 and
R-3 zoning. All Commissioners voted in favor of this proposal with the
following comments: Commissioners Charlette and Howard would suggest R-2 be
maintained to the outside of the property toward the west and south.
Commissioner Goldspiel would be willing to go smaller. Commissioner Rosenston
would be willing to go to an R-2/R-3/R-4 mix.
Chairman Sheldon then called a polling of those in favor of an intermix of R-4
zoning within the parcel. Commissioners Rosenston and Krug stated they would
consider such a mix. Commissioners Goldspiel and Howard indicated they would
be in favor of such a mix. Commissioner Braiman stated he is not in favor of
it for this parcel but feels it should be considered for the parcels to the
south and east. Commissioners Charlette and Rubin were not in favor because
they felt it would not ultimately be approved and would, therefore, be a
misdirection for the developer. Commissioner Rubin noted he personally would
favor R-4 on the parcel.
VILLAGE ZONING MAP
Mr. Pfeil reviewed the changes in the Zoning Map, including those relating to
the following:
1) Weiland Road right-of-way
2) Trip School
3) Peter David property
4) Forced annexation of a residential estate straddling Lake Cook Road and
Route 83
5) Knopf's Subdivision
6) Vernon Township property
7) Seigle's sign parcel
8) Mormon Church/Fiore Triangle
9) Lincoln Woods
Discussion included questions regarding the Malnati's sign parcel, the status
of the land and business of the Reader/Advisor, and information regarding
declaring the Peter David property an historical site. Chairman Sheldon
indicated the Village should look into the Federal funding possibly available
to help fund the maintenance and restoration of historical buildings.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT - None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated the March 7, 1990 meeting was cancelled because the Town
Center matter scheduled was not ready, and no other matters were ready.
Mr. Pfeil indicated the March 21, 1990 meeting would review Checker Square and
a proposed zoning ordinance to link together two buildings under separate
ownership.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission - Special Meeting - March 14, 1990 - Page 7
Mr. Pfeil noted a special meeting is scheduled for March 28, 1990 to review the
Berth site.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS - None
STAFF REPORT
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Commissioner Krug asked about improvements at Plaza Buffalo Grove. Mr. Pfeil
responded and reviewed the changes being made.
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Rosenston, seconded by Commissioner Howard, and
unanimously passed, to adjourn. Chairman Sheldon adjourned the meeting at
10:57 P.M.
Respectfully Submitted,
ROSEMARY ALLEN, ording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
BARBARA SHELDON, Chairman
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission - Special Meeting - March 14, 1990 - Page 8