1971-02-03 - Plan Commission - Minutes Tr14_,JA, 434
MINUTES OF A PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE VILLAGE
OF BUFFALO GROVE HELD ON FEBRUARY 3 , 1971 .
The following are minutes of a public hearing held on February 3,
1971 which is an adjourned public hearing from January 20 , 1971
reference an application for special use planned development for
property already zoned R-9 .
Chairman Berth called the meeting to order at approximately 8 : 07 F.M.
The following commissioners were present :
Chairman Berth; Mr. Guidotti , Mr. Genrich, Mr. Haarr, Mr. Gamm,
Mr. Fader and Mr. Yost .
Absent were : Mr. Heinrich, Mrs . Spence , Mr. Hoyt and Mr . Mendenhall .
Also present were Mr. Edward Fabish, Trustee, and Mr. Richard Raysa,
Village Attorney.
Chairman Berth stated that when the hearing was adjourned, Mr. Hoyt
had the floor and he asked whether Mr. Hoyt wished to add anything
further. Mr. Hoyt presented Chairman Berth with a petition signed
by 253 residents opposing the apartment project . Chairman Berth
read the petition which asked that the land be condemned and
purchased for a park site . Mr. Hoyt stated he had nothing further
at this time .
Chairman Berth then recognized Mr. Kiddie , President of the Park
District who stated they are a third party in the proceedings and
under the Qregg Builders Agreement the land reserved for the park
site is to be ee e to the Village . He stated he would hope that
the Village and Petitioner will settle their affairs in haste so
that the park district will receive the land. He stated the
attorney for the district has read the Gregg Builders agreement
and sees no reason for a delay in the conveyance . Mr. Kiddie
stated they would not start developing the site until they had the
deed. Further , Mr. Kiddie expressed concern relative the retention
pond shown in the exhibits near the park site . He suggested the
pond be relocated iri the residential portion of the project . He
further asked that the engineer will see to it that the lines of
easement are rigidly enforced.
Mr. John Walker of 272 Anthony was then sworn as a witness . Mr.
Walker stated he is represented the Buffalo Grove Women' s Club at
the request of the President of the Club and would like to read a
letter from the Club reference the proposed development . The
letter was read -by Mr. Walker and is attached hereto and made a
part hereof as Doc. #PC-6 .
• t
- 2
Mr. John Barger, Assistant School Superintendent of District #21
was then sworn as a witness . Mr. Barger stated he is not here to
either oppose or approve the project but simply as a representative
to find out items that they consider important . He stated there does
not seem to be adequate traffic patterns to the school for the
children to walk to school and asked that this point be given
consideration when the Commissioners make their decisions concerning
the project or recommendations for changes . Chairman Berth asked
Mr. Barger whether he wished to comment on the influx of children
from the development to the school . Mr . Barger stated that every
development presents problems to schools , however, the property
was zoned multi-family at the time the school was built so it was
anticipated that it would be developed eventually. He stated in
order to serve the area, attendance boundary shifts will have to be
made since they desire to keep all schools walking schools . He
stated it is not an impossible situation and questioned further
by Mr. Berth concerning split shifts , Mr. Barger stated he did not
think it would require split shifts to serve the development .
Mr. Haupt , attorney for the petitioner , questioned Mr , Barger as to
whether he had examined the statistical data presented to the Plan
Commission concerning the number of children projected and the tax
revenue . Mr. Barger stated the report is accurate as to projected
number of children, however , the financial figures are outdated by
a year due to rise in cost . Mr. Hoyt , attorney for the citizens
opposing the project , questioned Mr . Barger concerning the affect
of the day care center attracting families with young children
and stbsequent impact upon the school . Mr. Barger stated the amount
of children are based on certain norms which are difficult to
standardize . He stated it could be a factor, however, he did not
know. Questioned by Mr. Hoyt concerning the traffic pattern effect
on the school , Mr. Barger stated it wouldcbpend on the adequacy of
walkways which should be provided.
There being no further testimony from Spokesmen from Groups ,
Chairman Berth stated he would now hear testimony from individuals .
Mr. John Walker stated he wished to give testimony on behalf of
himself concerning the project and adequacy of water. He then
read a letter which is attached hereto and made a part hereof as
Doc . #PC- 7 .
J There was no further testimony from individuals . Chairman Berth
then called for questions or comments from the audience . There
were no questions or comments . Chairman Berth then asked the
Commissioners whether they had any questions .
- 3 -
U
Mr. Guidotti questioned whether the developer was in a position to
present any data regarding the water supply and sanitary and storm
sewer drainage systems . Mr. Haupt stated their engineer, Mr.
`„/ Patzer was present and stated that the plans are in the possession
of the Village Engineer to check and verify, however, he has been
advised that there is adequate water to service the area. Mr .
. Guidotti further questioned whether the MSD policy concerning
storm water retention factilities would be followed. Mr. Haupt
stated they have not shown any provisions for storm water retention
because they were not aware whether the sanitary district would
make the requirement . He stated they felt the natural flow through
the property was adequate to handle the run-off flow. Mr . Haupt
stated they would agree that the development should be checked
for adequate drainage and asked that Mr. Patzer of Applied Engineering
be sworn as a witness so that he could answer the questions directly.
Mr . Roger Patzer was sworn as a witness and stated that preliminary
studies have indicated that there is an adequate culvert to handle
the drainage . The property drains through the Arlington Country
Club in an open swale . Mr . Guidotti questioned whether consideration
could be given to a closed storm sewer with inlets rather than an
open ditch to prevent breeding of mosquitos as well as eliminate
the danger of an open ditch . Mr. Patzer stated they have not
designed the final engineering, however , they would consider a
storm sewer. Mr . Haupt stated the owners did not object to such a
requirement. Mr. Guidotti questioned whether a traffic survey had
been made and Mr . Haupt stated Mr. Katzenberg ' s firm did conduct
one . Mr . Guidotti stated that in the plan , the development is
being treated as three separate areas rather than having inter-
connected streets . He stated he felt from the Police and Fire
standpoint , he would prefer to have interconnecting roadways .
Mr. Rodeck stated the entire picture was considered in terms of
traffic and pedestrian access with connections being made to the
three separate areas by pedestrian rather than vehicular roadways .
He further stated the property is not that big, however , they felt
the pedestrians would prefer to get from place to place within ,
the property. There would be paved areas of sidewalk width.
Mr. Haarr stated he considered the buildings as being basically
designed in a "I" shape and questioned whether the four story
/ was the same size as the three story. Mr. Rodeck stated that
\./ they are not truly "I" shape , however, the basic design was
combined in various ways to get the best use of the area. Mr.
Haarr questioned the floor area of the "I" shape . Mr. Rodeck
stated the floor area was approximately 9 ,000 sq . feet. Mr .
Haarr questioned the floor area of the 3 pool buildings . Mr.
Rodeck stated they have not been designed as far as sq. ft . area
as yet , however, he would guess approximately 2500 sq. ft.
Li Mr. Haarr questioned whether there is a floor plan available and
Mr. Rodeck stated there was not . Mr. Rodeck stated the ground ,
coverage ratio is under that allowable by ordinance . Mr. Haarr
questioned the proposed nursery area reference the age group
- 4 -
which will be involved. Mr. Rodeck stated it is based on an
estimate of 189 pre-school children. He stated present plans call
for the developer to be the owner and operator. Mr. Haarr stated
in reading the ordinance , he cannot find authority to operate a
nursery school in a residential area. Mr. Haupt stated he felt
the Planned Development Section would authorize a variation.
Discussion followed concerning the operation of the nursery under
the ordinances . Mr. Raysa felt it could be allowable under a
Planned Development since the purpose of the Planned Development
is to allow variations , however, he stated he would review the
section and submit an opinion . Mr. Haarr further questioned the
difference in the figures concerning the traffic survey as to
number of cars that will be generated during peak times . Mr . Hoyt
stated the figures submitted at the meeting were prepared by the
land planner and were prefaced with the remark that they were
preliminary at the time and the final figures would be available
after study.
Mr. Genrich questioned whether they would submit a preliminary plan
before moving ahead with the development . Mr. Haupt stated it is
his interpretation that a Planned Development is a special use and
they would follow the proce ures necessary or approva o t e special
use . He stated should the project receive approval , the ordinance
\iiii
approving and authorizing the special use would contain the condition
that all other applicable ordinances would be complied with in
the cbvelopment of the project. Mr. Genrich questioned whether
the petitioners would be amenable to minor changes in the plan .
Mr. Haupt stated the would be and Mr. Genrich stated he would
suggest these at the proper time .
Mr. Yost stated that in a Planned Development the maximum height
of buildings is 55 feet and questioned what the heights of the 4
story buildings would be . Mr. Rodeck stated in talking with the
architect and analyzing the structures , they can specify a 45 foot
height limitation to the buildings . Mr. Yost asked whether Mr.
Rodeck would be more specific concerning the day care center .
Mr. Rodeck stated it would be only for pre-school children of
the residents of .the development and would be owned and maintained
by the owners . Mr. Yost asked whether consideration had been given
to the fee for this service and Mr. Rodeck stated at the present
time that has not been established. Mr. Yost then questioned the
storm water ditch shown on the site plan . Mr. Rodeck stated it was
on shopping center property and not on the development itself.
Mr. Yost asked Mr . Patzer what volume of flow could be anticipated
j from the area. Mr. Patzer stated there would be 86 cfs from the 76
acre area surrounding, 52 cfs from the multi-family area or a total
of 138 cfs leaving the project , based on a 10 year rainfall . Mr.
4, 9 Yost questioned the sidewalks in the development . Mr . Rodeck
stated they would be comparable to the walkways within the Village.
.... Mr. Yost asked why the walkways were not shown on the exhibit .
p,` Mr. Rodeck stated that the reason for the various exhibits �", each
accenting different areas, was to prevent confusion by the "clutter"
that would be generated if all the requirements were put on exhibit.
i
- 5 -
Mr . Gamm questioned the drainage in the area of the park site .
Mr. Ibdeck stated there is an existing drainage pipe running through
the park site and part of the concept of the drainage in that area
of Unit 7 was a depressed area in the park site to allow for the
overflow. Mr. Gamm further questioned Mr. Rodeck as to why the
4 story building could not be moved to the South. Mr. Rodeck
stated it was placed there in order to meet necessary requirements
regarding access to buildings and number of parking spaces . He
further stated the planner felt it would be better to cluster the
4 story buildings into one area because they are elevator buildings
and would attract older tennants and, therefore , did not think they
should be spread all over the area. Mr. Rodeck stated, however ,
they are cpen for comments . Mr. Gamm asked whether the name of
the architect was known and could be revealed. Mr . Rodeck stated
the architect was Mr . Raccuglia . Questioned as to the outside
masonry, Mr. Rodeck stated the design will be worked on by the
architect , land planner and engineer to make an attractive and
not monotonous project .
Mr . Fader questioned what type of maturity the shrubs and trees to
be planted would have . He stated the drawings indicate matured
greenery with high screening value . Mr. Rodeck stated that they
will hire experts in landscaping in order tottilize trees and
shrubs in the best possible manner to create an immediate effect
since the marketability of the project will also be affected by
the landscaping . Mr. Fader questioned what kind of criteria was
given the land planner when he was retained to develop a plan for
the area. Mr. Rodeck stated the planners were given the acreage ,
the existing zoning , a copy of the ordinances and were told they
wish to develop in terms of garden apartments . He stated the
planners then did a market analysis of the immediate area and
presented the plan which they felt would be the highest and best
use based on the information they gained. Mr. Fader questioned
whether it was considered in discussion that this is a departure
from the general trend in building in the Village and from the
densities presently being planned and constructed and what the
impact would be on the Village . Mr. Rodeck again reiterated that
the type of units they discussed were garden apartments and the
planner developed the plan as being , in his opinion, the highest
and best use of the , area. He stated it would seem logical to put
the highest density near main roads and shopping centers rather than
somewhere else .
t Chairman Berth declared a recess at 9 : 30 P .M.
The hearing was reconvened at 9 : 55 P .M.
Mr. Fader then stated he wished to know, since he was fairly new
to the Commission and the area, whether the R-9 zoning was in the
original incorporation of the Village . Mr. Rodeck stated it was not
done at the time of the incorporation, however , the area was zoned
at the time of its annexation and was called Unit 7 . Mr . Fader
asked who the owners were at the time of the annexation .
Mr. Haupt stated the owner is a land trust of which there are four
`0
,; �er3 ,p, x .`.,.. ., :._ . . � " - ' ...,<., _..«_.w.....�..a...,_.... .....�____ _._,mow..,... -. - •,,.0 ., Qs�_".'
- 6 -
I
beneficiaries , namely , Albert Frank, Herbert Dorner , Ernest
Dorner, and Luba Friedman . Mr. Berth asked Mr. Fader what his
line of questioning was leading to since he did not feel the owners
of the property had bearing on the R-9 zoning . Mr. Fader stated
his trying to determine for himself and for the record, how the R-9
zoning was established and why. Mr . Berth stated that as far as the
Plan Commission is concerned the zoning is there , it is on the
official map and he felt Mr. Fader was heading into an area that
did not involve the Commission. Mr. Fader asked whether Mr. Frank
would be willing to answer the questions . Mr . Frank stated he
would and was sworn as a witness . Upon questioning by Mr. Fader ,
Mr. Frank stated he was an elected Trustee of the Village at the
time of the zoning of that parcel of land. He stated he was
elected in 1959 , re-elected in 1961 and served until he resigned in
1965 . He further stated he did not remember whether he voted in
favor of the zoning or whether he abstained, but that it was a
matter of record. He further stated he felt it was the best use
for the land at that time and still does at the present time .
Mr. Frank stated he felt that high density should surround a
commercial area since it could be destroyed if there is not
enough support to it . He stated presently presently Arlington
Heights is changing zoning from single family to high rise . He
stated they thought of going high rise around the shopping center
S11, since R-9 zoning has no restrictions , however, they were advised
against it because of market conditions . He stated they have
restricted themselves to one and two bedroom apartments and feel
they have demonstrated that they do have a feeling for the welfare -
of the Village . Vr. Frank further stated he felt even higher
density would be desirable and could be worked into a very beautiful
plan. Mr. Frank further added that the owners of the proposed
development are also wners of the shopping center . He stated the
Village has considered the area for 900 units for a long time and
the engineering studies and studies for the water and sewer bond
issue were based on 900 units and it should not come as a shock to
anyone , including the people who bought homes in the area.
Mr. Haarr questioned Mr . Frank as to whether at the time of the
zoning there was a plan or exhibit . Mr. Frank stated it was merely
zoned and there was no agreement reference annexation. Mr . Guidotti
questioned whether they are aware of the fact that the zoning
ordinance was recently changed requiring 1 . 7 parking spaces per
unit and the space was increased in area. Mr. Haupt stated that
when they come back with their final plans , all ordinances will
have to be complied with . Mr. Guidotti questioned who will maintain
the open spaces . Mr. Rodeck stated that all maintenance an open
spaces , roads , sidewalks , etc. , will be done by the owners and
developers . Questioned as to whether the State Highway Department
' '; has approved the proposed access on Dundee Road, Mr. Rodeck stated
the Highway Department suggested the location of the access and
1
/
7 -
1
LI
stated that possibly a left turn lane will be provided at the time
of widening the road. If not , it can be done at a later date .
Mr. Guidotti questioned Mr. Raysa concerning his opinion reference
maximum allowable density . Mr. Raysa stated he would rather
discuss that at a later time , he stated the Commission is a fact-
`/ finding body and should determine what the developers propose to do .
He stated he would reserve his opinion at this time .
Mr. Gamm stated that in his research he has found that Gregg
Builders is an Illinois Corporation. Mr. Frank stated the
corporation was dissolved in December and changed to a partnership .
Discussion followed concerning floor area of the apartment units .
Mr. Yost felt they were in violation. Mr. Raysa stated he would
check into the interpretation of the various sections concerning
floor area. Mr. Yost questioned drainage from the development
and further whether it would affect the problems in the Cambridge
area. Mr . Patzer stated nothing South of Dundee Road would be
affected. The area will be drained northeasterly across the
Arlington Golf Course to the Buffalo Creek .
Mr. Kiddie questioned Mr . Rodeck concerning the drainage on the park
site . Mr. Rodeck stated that when the area was annexed and zoned
it was also engineered . The single family area was developed and
through engineering, the drainage is through the park past the
multi-family area. He stated the system was designed for the
entire area and further , the depressed area in the park has never
1 flooded. Mr. Kiddie questioned Mr. Berth as to whether the
developer will be required to build a retention pond on the
development . Mr . Berth stated that if the Village engineer
deems it necessary , it will have to be done , however, he cannot
say at this time . Mr. Patzer stated that any plan they develop
will have to be submitted to the MSD and the Village engineers for
review and approval as to adequacy. He further stated that the
MSD is having second thoughts concerning retention and have not
adopted that portion of the policy manual as yet . Every project
may be examined for its own merits rather than a standard require-
ment . Mr. Kiddie questioned the slope of the buildings reference
drainage to the park, since there are baseball diamonds in the
area. Mr. Rodeck stated that the park area is 10 feet higher than
Buffalo Grove Road, therefore , the drainage will be away from the
Park . Mr. Kiddie further stated he wished to reiterate point 2 in
Li their letter and request and urge that territorial integrity be
maintained.
There were no further questions from the Commission at the present
t time , therefore , Mr. Berth questioned whether Mr. Hoyt would care
to summarize his presentation. Mr. Hoyt stated he wouldcesire to
summarize at the time the Plan Commission will be reaching their
decision so that the facts may be clear in their mind.
{
r
8 -
Mr. Haarr stated since there are discrepancies in figures , he would
wish to see a preliminary floor plan of the buildings before the
conclusion of the hearings and further would like to talk to the
planner concerning the traffic patterns . Mr. Haarr moved to continue
the hearing to the 10th to clarify certain facts and also storm
water drainage . Mr. Gamm seconded the motion .
Mr. Frank stated he would hope the Plan Commission would not decide
on the project on the merits of a floor plan . He stated they will
have to go to the Building Commissioner and comply with the code
and he did not feel this was the Plan Commission ' s responsibility.
He stated he has seen meetings get bogged down because of the color
of the buildings or the size of bathrooms which should have no
bearing on thetotal project .
Mr. Berth stated that if the Commission feels they have not heard
enough testimony to make a recommendation to the Village Board, it
will have to be adjourned to another date , at which time a date
will be set for placement on the agenda of a regular plan commission
meeting for final consideration.
Mr. Genrich stated he felt the hearing should not be continued and
further felt that questions could be answered at a regular meeting
of the Plan Commission. He stated he would recommend the public
hearing be closed.
Mr. Haupt requested that should any member have specific questions
or suggested changes , it would be helpful if they conveyed them
to the petitioners at this time to give them time to work on it .
Chairman Berth called for a vote on the motion and the vote was
as follows :
AYES ; Mr. Guidotti , Mr . Haarr , Mr. Gamm, Mr. Fader, Mr . Yost
NAYS : Mr . Genrich , Chairman Berth
Chairman Berth declared the hearing continued until February 10th,
1971 at 8 : 00 P .M.
Time : Approximately 10 : 50 P .M.
Respectfully submitted,
/4
d-edt7:
Recording Secr tary
rr�3'ss..:•.� f;: , ---- �._._ - ,. .ram _ -�---
/ r 914 ,,ilP , "'s 1412 A
°Y )1J //1Y0d°j \\\6,14' cul") ,)
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION - FEBRUARY RU ARY 3,
The Chairman called the regular meeting to order at approximate)
11 : 05 P.M. following a public hearing. Chairman Berth stated y
because of the hour the agenda would be varied.
`J
COMMUNICATIONS
Chairman Berth read a letter from Mr. Ken Gill of District #2
reference the school site in Mill Creek 1
information to the plan C0�1 He stated it was
11SSion,
REPORTS OF COMMITTEES -t�. Pc_ ketk
(I.. .s...w.� i,,,_..7
Chairman Berth requested Mr . Genrich give a report to he Commission
reference the Village Board meeting . Mr. Genrich stated the Village
Board approved a request from the Plan commission to/rezonOoland in
Cambridge currently zoned R-9 and R-7 a+ being built R-5 . Further,
the Village Board denied the reappointment of Richard Heinrich
to the Plan Commission. He stated the Village Board is essentially
in agreement concerning the approval of Villa Verde with the 5 story
office building because they feel it is a good plan for that area.
He stated they have suggested the Plan Commission take steps to
hold a public hearing to amend the ordinance removing the height
triction. Further , a request from Wheeling Trust f Savings
Bank requesting rezoning of the property commonly referred to as eb seh the Gerschefske property to M-1 . The Board also expressed the wish
that the Plan Commission accelerate their work on the PUD Ordinance .
Mr. Berth stated he would exercise his usual perogative and set the�,
public hearing dates as soon as possible within the limits of the
/,Q, law.
vr, OLD BUSINESS
Mr.W a rence , Planner for the Villa Verde property, approached the
Plan Commission stating that they are wit)out council tonight , but
he has been authorized to state that the owners of the land would
proceed with a 3 story building to keep within the limits of the
,(, ordinance so that the project may proceed since they have made
certain commitments . He stated should the Village decide to amend
the Ordinance affecting the height , they could then come back at a
later date and ask for a change .
,
•
_ 2 _
Mr. Guidotti moved that the minutes of the Public Hearing on
January 27 , 1971 affecting the Villa Verde property be approved.
Mr. Haarr seconded the motion and it carried unanimously.
Mr. Haarr moved that the Plan Commission recommend to the Village
Board, approval of the development known as Villa Verde with the
stipulation that the 5 story building be limited to 3 stories or
45 feet to comply with the ordinance . Mr. Gamm seconded the
motion. Mr. Genrich stated he would like the motion to include that
7 the de eloper will (ubmit a preliminary plan to the Plan Commission
on the�engineering,O andscape and planting, an5detail plans on r
th.ant,ing:_ d the service station prior to seeking final
approval . Mr. Haarr and Mr. Gamm so amended their motion and
second. Chairman Berth called for a vote on the motion and the
,-"' motion carried unanimously by the seven Commissioners present .
ri '1 ',, Chairman Berth stated the next regular Plan Commission meeting is
February 17th at which time hopefully the Commission will make a
• recommendation to the Village Board concerning the Ranch Mart
property . He further stated that should the public hearing
adjourn at a reasonable time on the 10th, the work shop session
of the Plan Commission will consider further work on the PUD
Ordinance .
Mr. Haarr moved to adjourn the meeting. Mr. Gamm seconded the
motion and it carried unanimously.
Chairman Berth stated he wished to extend a public thank you to
Rosalie Kaszubowski for volunteering to record the minutes of the
public hearings .
Respectfully submitted,
. , Leet--tted-a; / a
Recording Secre ry
i
.
i