1972-10-11 - Plan Commission - Minutes /e//V72
PLAN COMMISSION
u PUBLIC HEARING - LEVITT & SONS
KOELPER-DEMUTH & WAGNER PROPERTIES
HELD ON OCTOBER 11, 1972
Chairman, Carl Genrich, called the Public Hearing to order at 8 : 15
P.M. He read the Notice of Public Hearing and entered it into the
record as being published September 20 , 1972 , in the Buffalo Grove
\./ Herald.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich Mr. Yost
Mr. Mendenhall Mr. Harris
Mr. Van Engen Mr. Gamm
Mr. Friedman Mr. Fader
Mr. Haarr
Commissioners Absent: None
Also present were Mr. Arnold Seaberg, Village Engineer, Mr. Rex
Lewis of the Park District, Mr. William Hitzeman of School District
#96 , Messrs. Randall Rathjen and Tom Mahoney, Village Trustees , and
Mr. Bill Balling, Assistant to the Village Manager.
Mr. Kenneth Campbell, Regional Engineering Manager of Levitt, Mr.
Pat Hewitt, Chief Projects Engineer, Mr. William Vost, Director of
Land Use Planning, Mr. Ray Somenick, Director of Marketing & Sales
were sworn in.
Mr. Campbell testified that this proposal consisted of the Koelper-
DeMuth property which would have single family homes on 16 acres
with a neighborhood park in the center, 192 townhouses and 225
apartment units on 50 acres. The proposal for the Wagner property
consists of 404 townhouse-condominium units on 61 acres . He said
they have tried to plan around the flood plain and conform to it.
Levitt has offered a parcel on the southwest corner of the Wagner
property to the School District, but have not received a firm
answer from District #96 as yet. He stated there will be 10 acres
of public open space with 2 acres of play area and the rest retention
on the Wagner parcel. There will also be 5-acre club with swimming
pool and tennis courts .
Mr. Campbell stated the DeMuth parcel - in the apartment area, will
have a swim club. The townhouse area will have tot lots.
Mr. Hewitt testified Levitt has conducted soil investigations on
their own and have contacted the Soil and Conservation District
and asked for a report. The Koelper-DeMuth parcel is the best
parcel and is recommended as desirable for development. The Wagner
parcel report recommends the developer' s request not be granted
unless certain compensatory measures are followed. Mr. Hewitt said
they do not contemplate any major filling of the flood plain. They
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Levitt Public Hearing
October 11, 1972
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feel they can overcome any problems or limitations pointed out in
this report. He stated they will tie in to the Long Grove inter-
ceptor sanitary sewer. They have been assured by the County that
there will be more than adequate capacity. Mr. Hewitt said they
`/ will cooperate on the Village on a well for extra water. He said
the flood plain covers approximately 45% of the Wagner parcel.
They propose to direct the water from both parcels to the Aptakisic
Creek. They would hold the water on the property until flooding
is passed so there would be less water flowing downstream than there
is now. A ditch will be constructed through the Wagner parcel
1, 000 feet long and 150 feet wide. Runoff will be controlled by a
small dam. The volume of the flood plain will be equal to or
greater than before.
Mr. Vost testified the two parcels are proposed for a population
impact of 3, 000 people. This would generate 400-650 school age
children. The assessed value is in excess of $15 million. They
predict $160,000 total revenue to Buffalo Grove.
Mr. Sominek displayed three models of houses they would like to
offer in this development and also showed the members a sample
apartment house, but said this was not definite. He also displayed
sample cluster condominiums that would have 2-8 units in a cluster.
He said the townhouses and condominiums will be approximately
$31, 000 - $35 , 000 and the condominium/apartments will run an average
of $25, 000 (this average taken on 1, 2 , and 3 bedroom units) .
Mr. Hitzeman said the School District is not seeking any land
donations at this time. They are investigating another piece of
property and should have a decision within a month or two. He
said that regarding the soil, in many places their augers had to
be replaced with hand augers because the land was too wet to get
machines on it. He said they figure a projected 556 students
generated.
Mr. Lewis said the Park District has met with Levitt. There is con-
siderable open space and think they can gain considerable open
space in the retention areas. Total acreage of open space is with-
in their guidelines . If the area is used for retention, the total
would be marginal.
Mr. Tod Trayser of the Appearance Commission said they will need
larger scale drawings to determine their findings.
Mr. George Vanderbosch of the Long Grove Plan Commission said the
Wagner parcel had been proposed for annexation to Long Grove at
one time and they decided against it because of the negative aspect
of the flood plain.
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Levitt Public Hearing
October 11, 1972
Page 3
Mr. Seaberg said there are problems on the Wagner parcel. He felt
Levitt had covered these in their presentation. He spent the day
with Levitt discussing the sanitary and storm sewers and was more
'�- satisfied with their presentation as given now.
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Mr. Drummond of Associated Planners said the proposals conform to
the overall plan.
In answer to a question from Commissioner Mendenhall, Mr. Campbell
said there would be at least two different elevations and possibly
three on each style of house. Also in answer to a question from
Comm. Van Engen, he said they have added an access for a road to
the south on both parcels. They also added a walkway in the single-
family section to the park.
Mr. Fritz Kreidler, Officer of the Concerned Citizens presented a
prepared statement to the Plan Commission asking that they not
approve any new building until the Village Master Plan is approved.
A recess was called at 9 : 30 and the meeting reconvened at 9 : 50.
`./ Mr. Brandwein, Attorney for Levitt, was asked to summarize the
conditions of the preannexation agreement. He stated that at the
present time there is an 11-acre school site donation but they
will make a cash donation if that is more desirable.
In answer to a question by Comm. Haarr, Mr. Campbell said on Page 4
referencing the waver of the side yard requirement, if this pre-
sents a problem in the future, they would withdraw it.
Comm. Yost asked if they would add a street on the DeMuth parcel
going from the main street on the south edge of the single-family
area to the park. Mr. Campbell said they would rather not have an
intersection at this point and feels people in this area can still
walk to the park. Commissioner Yos said he would like to see them
provide a parking lane along the ccess road on the DeMuth parcel
and wondered if they would dedicate a miner street in the northeast
section of this parcel. Mr. Campbell said where there is a concern,
we will dedicate a right-of-way plus a small maintenance area on
the side. He said they will commit themselves to a dedication of
\../ part of the street running through the center of the parcel.
Comm. Yost said he strongly suspects the flood plain is higher than
shown because a guage on Buffalo Creek shows this to be true there.
Mr. Campbell said they have to go by the data on hand.
Comm. Yost said he thinks there are ordinances preventing the trans-
ference of water from one basin to another. Mr. Campbell said they
will have to have the approval of the Department of Waterways, and
feels they will agree that this is the best way to handle it. The
alternative would be to keep this water in the Buffalo Creek water-
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Levitt Public Hearing
October 11, 1972
Page 4
shed. We have done this transference in the past in Illinois and
it has worked well.
Comm. Yost stated that, according to the Soil Report Levitt has 32
buildings within the flood plain and this sounds like a large number
and could create a serious problem. Mr. Campbell said where they are
encroaching on the flood plain, we will meet all requirements to d 1
41
compensate for it. Comm. Yost said the flood plain Ordinancefallow#
for building within 150 feet on each side of the creek through the
flood plain. He said Levitt has some areas within this. Mr. Camp-
bell said he understood the ordinance to allow building to be done
if compensatory retention was provided. Commissioner Yost said
then they must be going to take fill from the flood plain and move
it and make a new flood table and this is against the ordinance.
Mr. Campbell said he felt the buildings would lie beyond the flood
table land. He said if their interpretation is incorrect, they
would modify the plan with a 150-foot adjustment.
Comm. Yost said an alternative approach besides drain tiles and sump
pumps will be needed. Mr. Campbell said this is being considered.
Comm. Yost asked if Levitt is going to fill in the school site. Mr.
Campbell said the area where the actual building will be is higher
than the flood plain. Comm. Yost said his contour map did not show
it as being higher. He also said there is nothing mentioned in
the pre-annexation agreement about a flood-way easement to permit
maintenance of waterways , etc. Mr. Campbell said they would agree
to this. Comm. Yost said the wording in Paragraphs 8 and 9 which
involve the water main tap-on fees and bringing sewers to the pro-
perty needs revision. Our Tap-on Fee Ordinance allows for different
fees for each type of housing. Mr. Campbell said they would comply.
Comm. Yost asked if the developer would provide this distribution
main from 83 to the site. Mr. Campbell said they feel this is a
double payment and this should be provided by the Village, and with
respect to the sewer, we will provide this up to the property line.
Also in answer to a question from Comm. Yost, Mr. Campbell said
they did not consider erosion a problem on this property, but if
there were some, correction of it would be normal procedure.
Comm. Mendenhall said he can see 404 structures on the Wagner pro-
perty looking all alike. Mr. Campbell said these buildings will
vary in size and there will be condominium and cluster houses. He
said when they submit final plans , if they were not satisfactory,
they could tell them what we want at that time.
Commissioner Harris said the developer has agreed to many changes
and amendments in the agreement and he would like to see an amended
agreement before he would vote on the proposal. Mr. Brandwein said
he has kept notes and the Plan Commission should submit something
in writing in case he missed something. Comm. Harris said they also
do not have a document on the number of buildings, height, etc.
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Levitt Public Hearing
October 11, 1972
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Mr. Campbell said they will provide this and a zoning map showing
the districts.
Commissioner Fader asked if the southwest corner of the DeMuth
parcel would become a swamp full of weeds and mud. Mr. Campbell
said they will drain this dry at a controlled rate so it can be
used for recreation.
Chairman Genrich then asked for questions or statement from the
public.
Mr. Edmunds lives on Aptakisic between the two parcels of property.
He said there is a distance of 700 feet between the two pieces of
property. He said the easement for running the sewer from one
parcel to the other looks like it runs through his property and
no one has talked to him about it. He also said there is at
least 100 feet in elevation difference between the two parcels.
The watershed now drains the opposite way into the Buffalo Creek
and he asked if they were going to change the direction of the
water-flow. Mr. Campbell answered that less than 1/3 of the DeMuth
parcel is in the Buffalo Creek watershed. Mr. Edmunds said this
is wrong because he has lived there several years and has watched
it. Mr. Edmunds asked how they figured they would have 3,000
people and only 500 children. That would be only one child per
two families. He also said there will be a bad traffic problem
on Aptakisic because it is very bad now. Also there are always
cars backed up during rush hour at 83 and Arlington Heights Road.
Mr. Campbell said they have not approached the property owners yet
regarding easements.
Mr. Gerald Ostick on Arlington Heights Road said he faces the DeMuth
property. He asked if it would be possible to have the homes face
Arlington Heights Road so he would not have to look at their garbage
cans, clothes lines and fences. He stated that someone is dumping
a huge mound of concrete on the DeMuth property. Mr. Campbell
answered that the homes will not face Arlington Heights Road because
he did not think the Village would be favorable to that many drive-
ways exiting onto Arlington Heights Road. He also said Levitt is
awl undergoing a concrete replacement program in Buffalo Grove and we
are using these sites for this concrete and it will be buried.
Commissioner Mendenhall asked that a fence be erected®along Arlington
Heights Road.,of a m nimum of 6 feet ado a solid construction.
Mr. Al Hines on Arlington Heightstoad asked when the cement would
be covered up. He asked why a fence was needed because this is a
dead-end road. He also said he thinks something will have to be
done about Arlington Heights Road because it will not handle this
heavy construction traffic.
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Levitt Public Hearing
October 11, 1972
Page 6
Mr. Seaberg said Arlington Heights Road and Aptakisic are controlled
by Lake County Highway Dept. and we do not know yet what they plan
for these roads. Commissioner Mendenhall stated Mr. Larsons ' s letter
states it has been discussed regarding a 4-lane highway so there is
\./ talk about it. Mr. Campbell said this is something we will be dis-
cussing and looking into.
Mrs. Justine Smith of 7 Springside Court stated that, as a resident,
she would hope we would plan the Village as a rural area. She said
she wishes we would not consider these developments at this time
and would keep Buffalo Grove rural. She said she would recommend
light industry to relieve the taxes. Also, she said the water
pressure was low this year even though they did not have to water
their lawn once.
Commissioner Fader said we cannot plan industry, we have to attract
it. The Plan is a forecast and not an ironclad plan.
Mrs. Smith asked what about the water situation? Mr. Seaberg said
there is a well that we just finished two weeks ago and there will
be a possible well site in this area and there have been many improve-
ments made. The possible well in that area will be contributed to
by the developers and not be increasing taxes or water rates. There
are plans that will alleviate this problem and we do not take each
development as it comes but we try to plan ahead.
Mr. James Broskow of 258 Lincoln Terrace said he would like to add
to the statements made about the type of development the Village is
taking in. He said he has a flooding problem and cannot believe
the statements made that there is not seriously going to be an im-
pace on Buffalo Creek. He said he would like to see more single
family dwellings and more green area and would rather see business
than high-rises to help with taxes .
Mr. Vanderbosch said he would like to comment as a member of School
District #96. He said we had the best school with no school pro-
blems until we had a 300o increase from another municipality. If
you continue to conduct hearings as you have tonight with the thor-
oughness and insight you have demonstrated, I am sure the conclusion
of the impact and the answers will speak for themselves.
Mr. Ed Smith of 7 Springside Court stated we have to realize we will
be dealing with builders and it becomes obvious they will fill small
areas at a time and it will be a piecemeal effect with no building
planning. We cannot avoid building completely but I feel we should
slow it down so you know for sure what the impact on flooding,
schools, etc. will be.
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Levitt Public Hearing
October 11, 1972
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Another resident on Arlington Heights Road asked if Arlington Heights
Road north of Highway 83 will become impassable as it was south of
83. Mr. Campbell said the roads are under County jurisdiction and
weight limits are imposed. The cement trucks will exceed this limit.
�./ These trucks will have to go to the site partially empty which is
what makes costs go up.
Commissioner Haarr stated that Mr. Campbell said there would be no
low level living in this area and, upon questioning we find there
might be basements in some houses. Mr. Campbell said they will
have basements in the areas where the water table permits them.
Comm. Haarr said on the soil report for the DeMuth parcel they say
approximately 81% of this property is in moderate soil limitations
and the only place you could put a basement on this property is a
small piece in the northwest corner. I do not think you can even
consider basements on this property. Mr. Campbell said they do not
concur with the report as written. With proper grading, proper
sewers, etc. this makes what is a wet condition now not necessarily
true when it has been developed.
Commissioner Yost stated the Ordinance says no basement should be
less than four feet above the flood table so you are going to have
to bring in fill which is not allowed. Mr. Campbell said we are
not planning to put basements on every home and we realize this.
Commissioner Haarr stated he was talking about the tri-level, and
as far as I am concerned that is a basement level and if there is
any doubt I would not want to see it built. Mr. Campbell said we
have not ever had a problem with flooding in a tri-level in the
Chicago area.
Commissioner Haarr said he does not want to see the 10-foot side-
walk-g.,-1-ncy•t7 the park. Mr. Campbell said it can be added or
eliminated. o-x k-c}-4.,
Commissioner Haarr stated if the developer' s Annexation Agreement
is agreed on and our PUD Ordinance is then passed, would you be
willing to conform to it? Mr. Campbell said we will be glad to go
over it. The only limits we do not agree with is the time table
for construction. We feel this would be very difficult for anyone
to commit themselves to.
Commissioner Haarr asked if they are asking for preliminary plat
approval at this time? Mr. Campbell answered no.
Commissioner Gamm said he did not feel they should loop into the
Strathmore water main.
Mr. Hitzeman was asked if this other site they are looking into
will pose many problems . Mr. Hitzeman said we may be in trouble
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Levitt Public Hearing
October 11, 1972
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with a school site in that area. Comm. Gamm asked if it would then
be premature for us to vote on this now. Mr. Hitzeman replied yes.
-�_ Mr. Campbell said regarding the water main, I feel it will be det-
rimental to have a part of the Village on a different water system.
Comm. Yost said he did not think that was what Comm. Gamm was im-
plying. Comm. Yost said he personally feels there are a lot of
loose ends that should be tied down before we rule on this proposal.
He suggested we go into another workshop session and have another
Public Hearing. Chairman Genrich said he agrees this is a difficult
property to rule on. He said he feels this hearing fulfills our
Public Hearing requirements and we should have more meetings before
ruling on this since there will be another Public Hearing before
the Village Board. He told the builder that he would like to see
more refined plans and an updated Annexation Agreement, since we
are here to iron out problems and not pass them on to the Village
Board.
Commissioner Haarr said there seems to be a problem in the inter-
pretation of the flood plain ordinance and I feel the Village
Attorney should come to a workshop session prepared to interpret
this for us .
Chairman Genrich asked Levitt if they would be available next
Wednesday to discuss this further. They said yes . Comm. Haarr
told the audience that our workshop sessions are open to the
public and everyone would be welcome.
Chairman Genrich closed the Public Hearing at 12: 20 A.M.
Respectfully submitted,
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Recording Secretary
Approved:
\w/ 144-4-e---
Carl Genrich, Chairman