1973-03-14 - Plan Commission - Minutes}
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.1 �, MINUTES OF THE
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Y PUBLIC HEARING - HAWTHORN PROPERTY (continuation)
HELD ON MARCH 14 , 1973
Chairman, Carl Genrich, called the meeting to order at 8 :17 P.M.
on March 14 , 1973 .
Commissioners Present: Mr. Genrich, Chairman Mr. Yost
Mr. Haarr Mr. Harris
Mr. Mendenhall Mr . VanEngen
Mr. Gamm Mr. Keister
Mr. Fader
Commissioners Absent: Mrs. Rech
Mr. Shields
Also present were Mr. Arnold Seaberg, Village Engineer, Mr. William
Dettmer, Building Commissioner, and Mr. Leo Passato of School Dis-
trict #102.
Mr. Beaubian introduced into the record, all Exhibits alluded to
in the Annexation Agreement and the revised Annexation Agreement.
He stated that the original Agreement mentioned Exhibit "E" , but
it was still not available so it was spelled out in the Agreement.
Mr. Lacy presented a Zoning Plat showing the zoning surrounding the
property and the existing zoning of the property in question and
what they are requesting. He stated that they are requesting B-3
for 5. 2 acres and B-2 for approximately one acre. They are also
requesting B-3 for another parcel of 12 .8 acres, R-9 for the "strip"
which is 2. 64 acres, R-9 PUD Special Use for 124 acres, and M-1
for 49 acres of industrial .
Mr. Beaubian testified that Lots 8 and 11 are presently farm land,
Lot 12 is commercial with a nursery located on it, Lot 13 is single-
family residential with a single family home on it, the 124 acres
has a farm on it, and the manufacturing parcel is presently vacant.
Mr. Beaubian stated that the street shown running north and south
through the project will connect with Horatio Boulevard in Horatio
Gardens.
Mr. Gingold stated that Exhibit 40 (C) shows the school site. He
said they are in agreement with the School District. There will be
24 .72 acres of school/park land. The school requires 8 acres, the
lake is 3 . 2 acres, leaving 13 acres of actual useable land.
Commissioner Harris asked Mr. Hooper if the drainage would take up
all of the open space. Mr. Hooper stated the drainage channels
will be 10-12 feet wide and the strips of land are 120-150 feet wide.
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Commissioner VanEngen asked them to strike the last sentence in
`./ Paragraph 11, Page 5, but Mr. Beaubian asked to be allowed to re-
word it.
Mr. Gingold distributed the Tax Impact Study.
Mr. Sheridan said they met with School Districts 102 and 125. They
also met with representatives of the Park District and have requested
`,/ a meeting with the Park Board as soon as possible, but the Park
Board did not feel it necessary to meet with the developer prior
to this meeting.
Mr. Gingold said that, regarding bedroom percentages, they are
trying to get as much flexibility as they can. They would like
to maintain total flexibility but also work out a satisfactory
arrangement with the School Board so they are not overburdened.
He said they would work this out with the School Board and if they
feel the impact would be too great, they would try to satisfy them.
Commissioner Harris said he does not feel another body should
speak for the Village; and you are saying the School District
should tell us if it is alright. Commissioner Mendenhall stated
that if they bring in more three-bedroom units than we would like,
they would alter the character of the Village because they sell
for very little more than the two-bedroom units. Commissioner
Haarr said we are looking for specific percentages, but if the
market is not what you expected now, you can come back to us to
change it. Mr. Gingold said he is still not comfortable enough
about the market to tie them down to specifics. Commissioner Haarr
said he is not comfortable with no specifics since the bedroom
count is the only real control we have on the best interests of
the Village.
Mr. Gingold said the first neighborhood is a good indication of
what we plan to build throughout the entire development, but that
he is not prepared to lock in any figures other than the first
neighborhood. Commissioner Fader asked why they objected to being
held to the figures listed in the minutes of March 7? Mr. Gingold
stated this is a six-year project and they do not feel they can
tie themselves down without any experience. After the first year
of sales experience, perhaps they would know better what the mar-
ket demands will be. Commissioner Fader said that what might be
beneficial to them as a developer, may not be beneficial to us.
Chairman Genrich said that if they cannot come up with some limits,
the Plan Commission will probably make a percentage suggestion to
the Village Board. We have to try to build some limits into the
project which will be workable. Mr. Gingold said they do not want
to make a restriction, but will let the Plan Commission recommend
to the Village Board what they feel would be an appropriate mix.
Commissioner Harris said it would be difficult to pick out a number.
Mr. Gingold stated he was suggesting they recommend a percentage
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variation such as, not varying 20% for the total project. Comm-
issioner Yost said the concern is the number of three-bedroom town-
houses, which produce the most children, so how about switching
some of these three-bedrooms to more condominium three-bedrooms.
Mr. Gingold said they cannot do this.
Mr. Beaubian said, regarding the rewording in the Agreement, the
Exhibit is built to scale and if it meets your standards, recommend
it to the Village Board and if it does not, reject it and we will
have to try to work this out. After further discussion, the word
"shall" was changed to "must" .
The developer stated they are asking for the variations required
to construct a service station on the one-acre commercial parcel.
Commissioner Haarr said they would have to have four (4) acres to
ask for B-2 zoning. Mr. Beaubian said they are requesting B-2
and the Plan Commission can make a recommendation requesting a var-
iation. Commissioner Haarr asked why they picked that site? Mr.
Beaubian said it is on an intersection and Weiland Road could con-
ceivably be widened to four lanes and we feel it is an ideal site
for a service station. Commissioner Harris asked why they did not
run that road straight. You have created a piece of property
which you may not be able to build on. Mr. Johnston said this just
seemed to be the most logical solution and it enables us to run
the road into Weiland at a 90 degree angle. Commissioner Harris
stated this is surrounded by residential and you are asking to stick
a dot of commercial in the middle of it. Mr. Johnston said this is
a semi-major entrance to the development. Mr . Gingold said the
parcel of property between there and Lake-Cook Road is bound to go
commercial on up to this parcel. Commissioner Harris said you can-
not be sure of that. Mr. Gingold said they are anticipating this
and want this to be commercial because of this.
Chairman Genrich asked Mr. Dettmer to give some comments on the
fire protection. Mr. Dettmer said he is presently setting up a
conference with the Fire Officials who will be setting up the pro-
tection for this area. It was discovered that this will fall into
the Long Grove Fire District. These Officials are from the Long
Grove and Buffalo Grove Fire Districts and the meeting is an effort
to have this area annexed into the Buffalo Grove Fire District.
The "strip" is the only area not contiguous to the Buffalo Grove/
Wheeling Fire District, and there is one small parcel in the indus-
trial area which is in the Vernon Fire District. The Fire Chief
of that District has agreed that, if the parcel is not large enough
to be to their advantage, he will sign the papers necessary to have
it annexed to the Buffalo Grove District, but if it is large, he
will not want to relinquish it.
Commissioner Haarr asked Mr. Dettmer about access to the 5-story
building. Mr. Dettmer said he has looked at this and to use the
truck we now have, we need to get within 55 feet of the building
and there is one side we cannot get to. This is not acceptable
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and will have to be worked out. We will need a 10-foot fire lane
capable of holding the fire apparatus. This capability has to be
determined by Mr. Seaberg. Commissioner Haarr asked Mr. Gingold
if they were willing to work this out with the Fire Department and
he stated he would be.
Commissioner Haarr stated he had requested a change in the reversion
clause and this was not made. Mr. Beaubian said the Lake County
Industrial Zoning for the property is the middle of the three zon-
ing districts they have. He said they are requesting M-1 and this
will allow them to build similar to the zoning they now have in the
County. He said it is very conceivable they would not build this
area by the end of five years. Commissioner Haarr suggested we
could write the reversion clause to revert to M-1. Mr. Beaubian
said this is something the Village Board and the Village Attorney
should work out. Chairman Genrich asked what their reaction would
be if we recommend the Manufacturing District plans be brought in
when you are ready to build? Mr. Beaubian said he did not think
we could do that.
Commissioner Haarr asked if they would agree to coming in under
R-8 since R-9 may not be in existence much longer. The main
difference would be the height restriction which would be three
(3) stories or 35 feet. Mr. Gingold said they do not want any-
thing more restrictive than what they now have. He suggested we
give them the variations under R-8 to meet the height they are
requesting. Commissioner Haarr said we cannot waiver more than
10 fieet on height, which would be 3-1/2 feet.
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Commissioner VanEngen suggested that, regarding the reversion
clause, we leave it up to the Village Board O Zoning Board in
five years because we may come up with a new zoning classification
in five years which would better fit what they are asking. Comm-
issioner Haarr said, if in five years we have the same book in front
of us, do you want to give them R-9 with no Special Use? Mr. Gin-
gold said all they are asking is that whatever Ordinance is in exis-
tence at that time that conforms to County UR-9, will be what this
property will revert to.
Commissioner Harris asked Mr. Hooper how they intended to conform
to our Ordinance for Retention? Mr. Hooper said it would be the
same as proposed for the Otis property. Comm. Harris said there
is not retention lake so how are you going to take care of the
Village requirement? Also, is the lake they plan only for looks
or is it part of the retention? Mr. Hooper said most of the re-
tention will be done within neighborhood "B" , which will be the
first one to be constructed. Your Ordinance can be met by ponding
within the green areas, not to exceed one foot. He said the storm
here last night would only get these areas damp and you would not
have water standing there. Comm. Harris asked, then how have you
retained any water? It would all run off this property. Mr.
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Hooper said he doubts that there would have been any runoff from
this area last night. Commissioner Harris said it has to go some-
where and this seems like a poor way to do it. There will be
puddles for children to play in and get muddy and grass will not
grow there. Mr. Seaberg said there have been no Engineering Plans
submitted. Commissioner Harris said that, regarding the grading of
these areas, a landscaper could disturb this grade and we will have
people complaining at the meetings about standing water everywhere.
Mr. Seaberg said the drainage tiles will carry away water from a
two-year storm and anything more than that will create ponding in
the green areas. Commissioner Yost said this Ordinance was taken
from the MSD Ordinance which requires a centralized retention or
detention and nowhere does it state this type of retention. If
you are going to have standing water, you will have to treat this
area. I think what is proposed is a bad way of retaining water and
I do not think it is allowable in Buffalo Grove. Mr. Seaberg said
there is no intent in the Ordinance saying how this must be done.
Commissioner Harris said he would hate to see all of our green areas
flood everytime we have a storm, which is what we are doing. Also,
we will have a health problem with mosquitoes and stagnant water.
Mr . Seaberg said this is going to drain underground into catch
basins where it will drain out of the property. Commissioner Yost
said, but these release pipes are for a two-year storm so if we
get any more than that, we are going to have wet areas for lengths
of time. My interpretation of the Ordinance is that this is not
allowed. Mr. Seaberg said he might not agree with it when the
final plans come in and will ask to have it changed, but this
cannot be determined now.
Commissioner Harris said in the Annexation Agreement, Paragraph 21 ,
Page 8 , regarding signs, you use some very vague terms such as
"conventional signs" . Mr. Gingold said there is a size limitation
in our Ordinance that they want to exceed (10 x 40) . Commissioner
Harris stated this comes under the Zoning Board of Appeals and you
will have to go to them and ask for a variation. Mr . Gingold said
why doesn't the Plan Commission stipulate "no sign over 10 x 40 "'?
Chairman Genrich suggested this be left to the Village Board.
Commissioner Harris said, in the "strip" Annexation Agreement, Page
5, Paragraph 8 , would they agree to add "nor expand present water
facilities"? Mr. Beaubian agreed to this and said he would check
with the owners. Commissioner Harris said his reasoning is that
if the well dries up, they should tie in to the Village water system.
He then asked why they changed their request from M-P to M-1? Mr .
Beaubian said M-1 is more specific.
Commissioner Harris said he only received a tax study on the School
District and wanted to know if they had one for the Village. Mr.
Sheridan said, because of the substantial revenue generated for the
Village, they met with Dan Larson and agreed the tax revenue will
surpass the requirements. They did not want to attempt to evaluate
it at this time, but only tried to determine the requirements. He
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said they cannot evaluate the commercial or industrial parcels at
this point, so rather than put in an arbitrary number, we are
putting in the minimum.
Commissioner Mendenhall left at 10:35 P .M. He made a statement
for the record that he had no major objections to the project,
and as far as the reversion of the zoning, I think the Annexation
\./ Agreement spells it out quite well.
Chairman Genrich closed the Public Hearing at 10 :45 P.M.
The members present then went into a workshop with the Hawthorn
representatives until 1 :20 A.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Recording Secreta0
Approved:
Carl Genrich, Chairman