1973-03-21 - Plan Commission - Minutes 3/21/73
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
HELD ON MARCH 21, 1973
Chairman, Carl Genrich, called the meeting to order at 9 :30 P.M. ,
March 21, 1973.
`./ Commissioners Present: Mr. Genrich, Chairman Mr. Harris
Mr. Haarr Mrs. Rech
Mr. Mendenhall Mr. Keister
Mr. Gamm Mr. Sheilds
Mr. Fader
Commissioners Absent : Mr. Yost
Mr. VanEngen
Also present were Mr. Arnold Seaberg, Village Engineer, Mr. William
Kiddle, Park Commissioner, Mr. Stan Crosland, Park Director, and
Mr. Di Vincenzo of School District 102, and Mr. Richard Raysa.
Approval of Minutes
Commissioner Harris made a motion, seconded by Commissioner Haarr,
to approve the minutes of the Hawthorn Public Hearing on March 7,
1973, with the following corrections : Page 7, Paragraph 3, 1st
line, should end with the word, "blank" instead of "blanketed".
Motion carried.
Commissioner Harris made a motion, seconded by Commissioner Haarr,
to approve the minutes of the Hawthorn Public Hearing of March 14,
1973, with the following corrections : Page 4, Paragraph 2, last
line, should be "10%" instead of "10 feet". Page 4, Paragraph 3,
2nd ]Line, should read "Village Board or Zoning Board". Motion
carried.
Hawthorn Project
Mr. Gingold said there were two major issues to be resolved with
reference to the Annexation Agreement. The first issue is the
classification of the two business parcels. The fourth revision
to the Annexation Agreement, submitted this evening, is asking
for B-2 on each parcel, which would require a waiver on the smaller
parcel, and we would be required to come back before the Plan
Commission with Plans.
Commissioner Haarr said he still feels it should be B-1 because
of the type of development and we are under the impression this
Page 2 3/21/73
is going to be a local-type neighborhood business. Mr. Gingold
said they feel that, by giving the Plan Commission the right of
review, this would be adequate. Commissioner Haarr said he and
Comm. Harris wno p � that B-1 would be adequate
for the type of development they want to put on that property and
do not feel B-2 is necessary.
`./ Commissioner Harris asked Mr. Raysa, since B-2 requires a minimum
of four (4) acres, can we grant this much of a variation? Mr.
Raysa said he did not think we could waive it and it would take
an amendment to the Zoning Ordinance, which would require a special
Hearing and revamp the Ordinance in order to do it.
Mr. Gingold asked if they could connect the two parcels by a strip
and then have a 5-1/2 acre piece? Commissioner Haarr asked how
big would that strip have to be? Mr. Raysa said the old "strip
annexation" is basically against the law, but the Supreme Court
O.K. 'd it at O'Hare, so you could say this was alright also.
Commissioner Fader asked Mr. Raysa what about zoning the piece B-1
and give them Special Use for a gas station? Mr. Raysa said you
might be able to do that, although Special Use does not stipulate
gas stations. I think if the recommendation is made by the Plan
Commission that this piece could be used as a gas station. I
think something could be worked out because the piece may not be
good for anything else.
Commissioner Haarr said he and Comm. Harris think, even if you
create a strip to make this parcel five (5) acres, that this piece
cannot be used as a gas station because of the shape. Commissioner
Harris said he thinks Hawthorn is giving us more right of authority
than they will later, because if we give you B-2 zoning and you
want to build a gas station, there is nothing we can do.
Chairman Genrich asked if there were any objections to the project
as a whole at this time. Commissioner Haarr said he is not happy
about the method of water retention on this property. Commissioner
Harris stated he does not feel that is a fair question to ask be-
cause we have to consider the various details and then come up with
a decision.
Chairman Genrich said we are not going to agree with the developer
on this particular point so we are going to have to make a recom-
mendation in our report to the Village Board. Commissioner Harris
Page 3 3/21/73
said these may be major areas of concern which would ,e'ffect our
decision on the entire development. Commissioner Haarr said he
agrees. Commissioner Fader said he is opposed to any strip be-
cause it would be terrible land planning and would look terrible.
He said he feels the small piece should be B-1 and the other B-2.
Commissioner Rech agreed about the strip but feels both parcels
\./ should be B-1. Commissioner Gamm said he would like the smaller
piece to be B-1 and he could live with B-2 on the larger piece.
Commissioner Harris said he would like B-1 on both. Commissioner
Haarr said B-1 on both. Commissioner Keister said he would not
like to see any strip and prefers B-1 on both parcels. Commiss-
ioner Mendenhall said he would like B-1 on both, but does not
especially like the business there at all. Commissioner Shields
said B-1 on both.
Mr. Gingold said he still would like their Annexation Agreement
to stand as it is and you can make your recommendation as you
see fit.
Mr. Gingold said the other issue is Page 4, Paragraph 7, dealing
with flexibility of the project. He said that, because this pro-
ject is unique in concept, we feel if we have to put in a specific
number, the figure we put in Paragraph 7 is the number we are
willing to live with. Your recommendation was 10%, but we feel
50% variation in the 3-bedroom, 25% in the 4-bedroom is what we
prefer.
Commissioner Haarr said, on your Exhibits, there was nothing about
4-bedroom units and now you are putting in 25% 4-bedroom units in
the Annexation Agreement and you are changing the character of the
development. Commissioner Mendenhall said he would rather see 75%
3-bedroom units if you want these figures. Commissioner Haarr
said he would like some kind of wording in Paragraph 7 referring
to the figures in the minutes of March 7 and that these mixes
cannot vary more than 10% in mix and housing styles.
Mr. Gingold said they cannot tell right now which is going to sell
the best and we have to come to the Plan Commission everytime we
start a new neighborhood and you do not have to agree with it.
Commissioner Haarr said he thinks they are misrepresenting the
exhibits entered in the Public Hearing and, in the same vein, you
can put in a figure and come back to change it.
Chairman Genrich asked Mr. Gingold why they decided on 4-bedroom
units.
Page 4 3/21/73
Mr. Gingold said he does not think they have misrepresented any-
thing, but are only saying they might build this.
Commissioner Harris said last week it was suggested that we could
take another look at this when you have experience and then tie
these numbers down, but we are concerned about the character of
this project. If you decide to build all townhouses, that would
not be this development which we are looking at. If you have to
make a change because of the market, we want to look at it.
Suppose your first neighborhood does not go and you sell the pro-
perty, all we are tied to is 1, 234 units, and the next developer
might not have the intentions you have; there is nothing we could
do to stop him.
Commissioner Fader said he is opposed to 4-bedrooms because it
changes the character of the development from the school outlook
and the population of the Village. He said he does not think we
are taking the attitude that we want to hold you to something
that you cannot do. We want to prevent the development of some-
thing that we do not like.
Mr. Gingold asked how this would change if a family pays $50, 000
for a 4-bedroom instead of $40,000 for a 3-bedroom? Commissioner
Fader said your whole lifestyle changes.
Commissioner Rech said we would be setting a precedent which will
be extremely difficult to live with (am talking about future
developers) . we have to be very careful. You would not have the
same quality of life with 4-bedroom units because you have a
larger number of people living there with the same amount of green
space and the same number of units, but you are incorporating
more people.
Mr. Gingold said they are maintaining that the number of people
generated by this development is basically what they have said.
Commissioner Rech said that in just two weeks the complex of the
development has changed, so what is going to happen in two years?
The other developers are locked in and the other developers take
the same chances you are. Mr. Gingold said he did not feel this
could be compared to other developments.
Commissioner Gamm said it looks like we are going to have to
recommend our own mix.
Commissioner Harris said he was hoping they would come back this
Page 5 3/21/73
week with something we could work with. I feel that 5% or 10% is
\ 1 a fair figure and any variation of more than that will change the
character of the development.
Commissioner Keister said you talk about risk and a new idea in
housing, which I agree with, but, as I see it, your risk is no
greater than we would be taking if we let you go through here
\„/ with a free rider. If you would build what you proposed on your
exhibit, the development has great merit, but if you deviate from
this, I think we have to consider this very heavily.
Commissioner Shields said he tends to agree with the builder on
this issue not changing the character by going from 3-bedroom
units to 4-bedroom units.
Commissioner Haarr stated to Mr. Beaubian that he thought they
had agreed to take out the reference to UR-3 in Paragraph 17.
Mr. Raysa said that if they have a substantial portion of the
development completed at the end of five years, we would have a
difficult job of changing your zoning. He said all contracts
of this kind end after five years and they are asking it to con-
tinue after that. This clause is required so that if you do not
, develop this land, someone could not come in and build under that
zoning.
Commissioner Haarr said that the County UR-3 zoning is more re-
strictive than our R-8 zoning, so they are not going to lose any-
thing by this. Mr. Gingold asked what if we change our R-8 in
five years? Commissioner Haarr said, suppose the County changes
their zoning in five years?
Mr. Raysa said he could not sit still for this because the County
has no jurisdiction over our property. He said he would strongly
say this provision should be stricken out of the Agreement. This
type of provision has no place in here.
Mr. Gingold asked if they could state "R-8 as it exists now"? Mr.
Raysa said he would prefer not having a reverter clause at all
and then it would automatically revert to R-1 and the Annexation
Agreement ceases to exist. The Plan Commission members agreed
unanimously. Mr. Gingold agreed to take it out of the Agreement.
Commissioner Haarr said in Paragraph 9, he would like to see the
last sentence stricken because if the developer does not pay this,
the taxpayers will have to. A straw poll showed the Commissioners
\./ agreed to leave this sentence in.
Page 6 3/21/73
Commissioner Harris asked Mr. Raysa if a waiver of the Sign
Ordinance would be under the jurisdiction of the Zoning Board?
Mr. Raysa said you can waive these provisions in the Annexation
Agreement, but it should be restricted to a number of years. Mr.
Gingold said this would stop in five years when the Annexation
Agreement stops. A straw poll of the Commissioners found they
agreed to leave it in.
Commissioner Fader said he was wondering if the developer would
agree to take the last sentence in Paragraph 7 out. Commissioner
Haarr said that leaves it wide open and worse than it is. Comm-
issioner Fader said his point was that he would hate to see four
bedrooms mentioned anywhere. Commissioner Gamm suggested some
percentages which included 5% 4-bedroom units with a 5% variation.
Commissioner Haarr said he did not think we should take the 4-bed
room units into account at all because this is not the way the
project was represented to us in the Public Hearing. He said he
would counter-propose a 10% variation of bedroom mix and types
from what was originally stated.
Chairman Genrich stated that the developer was being honest in
saying this is what they intend to do, but does not want to rule
out the alternative of four bedrooms and I think, essentially,
there is not that much difference between 3 and 4-bedroom units
providing you keep a balance of the other kinds of life. Comm-
issioner Haarr said he did not agree. Chairman Genrich suggested
they poll the members regarding allowing a small portion of four-
bedroom units with a suggested percentage figure. Commissioner
Mendenhall said he would like to strike the percentages and use
their original proposal as a guide. Commissioner Shields suggested
60% 3-bedroom with an option of 50% 3-bedroom and 10% 4-bedroom
and he does not like to see them tied down to style. Commissioner
Keister said he does not mind 4-bedrooms but would like to go with
what was originally presented with a 10% variation with some flex-
ibility of 4 ' s as long as they are only deducted from the 3 ' s and
not from the 1 and 2-bedroom units. Commissioner Haarr said he
would like to go with what was originally proposed with a 10%
variation. Commissioner Harris said he concurs with Comm. Haarr.
Commissioner Fader said he agrees with Comm. Haarr and, as this
goes to the Village Board, we delete any reference to 4 's in the
Agreement.
Mr. Gingold said he agrees to strike this and go back to the way
it was originally submitted.
�✓ Commissioner Fader asked what the result was with their meeting
Page 7 3/21/73
with the Fire Districts. Mr. Beaubian said they are in the pro-
cess of setting these meetings up.
Commissioner Haarr said he thinks we should make our recommen-
dations on the parcels from west to east.
Mr. Kiddie said, as you know from the 4-page letter you have
\./ received, dated March 19, this is a summary of the findings of
Stan Crosland. He said the Park Board cannot recommend approval
of this project because the exhibits are not complete and he
hopes these things can be ironed out before final plans are sub-
mitted. He said they also do not disapprove it for the same
reason. Chairman Genrich asked Mr. Kiddie if the builder would
adhere to their Ordinance would that be satisfactory? Mr. Kiddle
said, generally yes.
Mr. Sheridan presented additional tax information. He stated
there is an approximate $94,000 revenue to the Village excluding
the industrial area. The Village believes this number of con-
servative.
Mr. Di Vincenzo of School District #102 said they met with the
Park District to see if they can work together regarding facili-
ties when the development is finished. He said they agreed to
share these facilities. He then read a letter to them from the
developer. They discussed ways of getting money to build and
operate the school. One proposal is that they go to the people
in the District with a referendum to purchase the property and
the developer would then give them the money back to use for
educational purposes. He said they are essentially satisfied
with the amount of acres they are donating. The developer has
also agreed to maintain the site until they need it.
Commissioner Haarr said he would like to make a motion to recommend
the Village Board approve annexation of the "strip" with the
Annexation Agreement as is (4th revision) . Commissioner Harris
seconded the motion. Roll call vote found:
AYES : Commissioners Haarr, Mendenhall, Gamm, Fader, Harris
Rech, Keister, Shields
NAYES : None
Commissioner Haarr made the motion the Plan Commission recommend
the Village Board disapprove the 124-acre parcel as presented unless
all references to B-2 be changed to B-1, in Paragraph 7, line 14,
the words "or replaced bedroom" be stricken and the following be
added "be not more than 10% per the figures shown on the chart on
Page 8 3/21/73
Exhibit "B" ", and make reference that the petitioner has agreed
to change Paragraph 17 striking everything from "UR-3 " out and
reword it to say "R-8 as is now", and petitioner agreed to strike
the last sentence in Paragraph 7. Commissioner Rech seconded
the motion.
Mr. Gingold said he would rather they recommend approval with
the recommendation of the changes. Commissioner Haarr said he
feels very strongly about what they want to put in Paragraph 7
and does not want this development in the Village if it is not
the development they have presented. Commissioner Harris said
it is a poor policy on our part to set this precedence and we
should either approve it or disapprove it. Commissioner Haarr
said he feels that without that wording, we do not have this plan
that was presented. Commissioner Fader said he feels this motion
would be confusing to the Village Board.
Commissioner Gamm said that on Page 7, Paragraph 20, the 7% per
anum should be changed. Mr. Gingold agreed to change it to 6%.
A roll call vote on Commissioner Haarr 's motion found:
AYES : Commissioner Haarr and Rech
NAYES : Commissioners Mendenhall, Gamm, Fader, Harris,
Keister and Shields
Motion defeated.
Commissioner Harris made the motion to approve the Annexation
Agreement for the 124-acre parcel (4th revision) with the recom-
mendation that: 1) Parcels lA and 1B be zoned B-1; 2) Paragraph
7 shall be amended to provide the following : a) the number of each
type of units, i.e. , townhouses, multiplex, condominiums, to be
constructed shall not vary by more than 10%; b) the number of bed-
rooms to be constructed of each type of unit shall not vary by
more than 10%; c) the basis of calculating these above items
shall be :
A - 154 total units 36 condominiums
64 multiplex
54 townhouses
B - 182 total units 42 condominiums
76 multiplex
64 townhouses
C - 256 total units 60 condominiums
110 multiplex
86 townhouses
Page 9 3/21/73
D - 138 total units 32 condominiums
58 multiplex
48 townhouses
E - 128 total units 30 condominiums
54 multiplex
44 townhouses
F - 76 total units 18 condominiums
32 multiplex
26 townhouses
G - 164 total units 38 condominiums
70 multiplex
56 townhouses
H - 136 total units 32 condominiums
58 multiplex
46 townhouses
288 condominiums 44 1-bedroom
144 2-bedroom
100 3-bedroom
522 multiplex 261 2-bedroom
261 3-bedroom
424 townhouses 150 2-bedroom
274 3-bedroom
3) the method of providing storm water retention/detention which
allows the flooding of green areas rather than collecting the water
in large reservoirs shall not be permitted. Commissioner Haarr
seconded the motion and stated he wonders if we have enough facts
on the storm water retention to put this in the motion. Commissioner
Harris said he feels they have not adequately proven this method
will not create unsatisfactory conditions (stagnant water, mosquitoes,
muddy open areas, etc. ) . Commissioner Keister said there is not
enough detail on what is going to flood and if there is a suitable
alternate, he would like to see it.
Mr. Gingold said they are pursuing other methods but they are
not far enough along to present at this time. Commissioner Harris
said he still wants to state that we do not like that method and
are glad they are looking at other methods.
Page 10 3/21/73
Chairman Genrich said he feels that 10% is pretty restrictive
and they could go to 20% or 25% and still maintain the flavor of
the development. Commissioner Haarr said he would not second the
motion if it was anything more than 10%.
A roll call vote on Commissioner Harris ' s motion found:
AYES : Commissioners Haarr, Mendenhall, Gamm, Fader,
�./ Harris, Rech, Keister and Shields
NAYES : None
Motion carried.
Commissioner Haarr made the motion the Plan Commission recommend
the Village Board approve the Annexation Agreement for the 49-acre
manufacturing parcel with the following changes : Page 3, Paragraph
4, line 3 starting with the words "with additional Ordinances" be
stricken to the end of the sentence; and strike Paragraph 5.
Commissioner Fader seconded the motion.
Mr. Raysa said Paragraphs 4 and 5 of this Agreement are illegal.
You cannot restrict a future Village Board from rezoning a par-
ticular piece of property and you cannot say the Lake County
zoning ordinances would apply because it would no longer be in
the County, but in Buffalo Grove.
Commissioner Harris said Paragraph 11 was not changed as in the
other agreements. Mr. Beaubian said that was an oversight. The
record shall show that Paragraph 11, 5th line starting with
"provide" shall be stricken to the end and add the wording "the
Village will be permitted to establish Fire Lanes ".
A roll call vote on the above motion found:
AYES : Commissioners Haarr, Mendenhall, Gamm, Fader, Harris,
Rech, Keister and Shields
NAYES : None
Motion carried.
Commissioner Fader made the motion, as a statement of position,
the Plan Commission believes it is in the best interests of the
residents of the Village and the development that these parcels
be annexed to the Wheeling Fire Protection District. Commissioner
Rech seconded the motion. A roll call vote found:
AYES : Commissioners Haarr, Mendenhall, Gamm, Fader, Harris,
Rech, Keister and Shields
NAYES : None
Page 11 3/21/73
Oak Creek Apartments - Gregg Builders
Mr. Ken Rodeck presented the Oak Creek Retention Plans. The reten-
tion lake will effect the location of some of the buildings. The
4-story buildings will be condominium with underground parking,.
which is how they were able to get land for retention.
\./ Commissioner Harris asked if they would be willing to provide re-
tention for the complete project now? Mr. Rodeck said conceivably.
It depends on how the drainage goes. The project is a little over
1/3 completed.
Commissioner Haarr asked how far underground the parking will be?
Mr. Rodeck said they have a 45-foot lira ttaatjion and there are 10
feet per story, so they would be Haden 5 feet underground.
Commissioner Haarr said if^'more than half of the underground park-
ing is below grade, we would have to call that a 5-story building,
which would be a major change.
Chairman Genrich announced that, because of their option running
out, the Fire Station Public Hearing before the Village Board
has been scheduled for April 9, 1973.
Commissioner Fader made the motion the meeting be adjourned at
12 :15 A.M. Commissioner Keister seconded the motion. Motion
carried.
Respectfully submitted,
LC Jsi
Recording Secrete
Approved:
Carl Genrich, Chairman
3/21/73
/wit);\
MINUTES OF THE
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Vri PUBLIC HEARING - FIRE STATION
L./ HELD ON MARCH 21, 1973
Chairman, Carl Genrich, called the Public Hearing to order at
8 :25 P.M. , March 21, 1973, in the Municipal Building.
`./
Commissioners Present : Mr. Genrich, Chairman Mr. Harris
Mr. Haarr Mrs. Rech
Mr. Mendenhall Mr. Keister
Mr. Gamm Mr. Sheilds
Mr. Fader
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Yost
Mr. VanEngen
Also present were Mr. Dan Larson, Village Manager, Mr. Arnold
Seaberg, Village Engineer, Mr. William Kiddie, Park Commissioner,
Mr. Stan Crosland, Park Director.
Chairman Genrich read the Notice of Public Hearing as being pub-
lished in the Buffalo Grove Herald on,
Fire Chief Wayne Winter was sworn in.
Chief Winter testified that Mr. Bob Griffin was present, represent-
ing the people who are interested in purchasing the other 4-1/2
acres.
Chief Winter elaborated on his previous statements at the first
Hearing. He stated the Station is set up with quarters for 12
men on a shift. There will be a basement under the office side
only. The parking area they planned at the rear of the building
will not be built at first because of lack of funds, so they
plan to seed this area.
Mr. Griffin was asked to state his client' s intentions with the
remaining land. He said there will be one building diamond-shaped
in the center of the property which will be a lending institution
with drive-in windows. In the southwest corner is planned a two-
story building of approximately 25, 000 square feet which would
house special offices and a small pharmacy to service a medical
center. The rest of the property would be a park-like atmosphere
3/21/73
and parking. Compatible materials will be contiguous with the
surrounding area. There will be low-profile lighting for the
parking area and the signs will be determined by each tenant.
Commissioner Gamm asked if they are supposed to approve both of
these proposals together or just the Fire Station?
Commissioner Harris said the Plan Commission cannot give them the
zoning on the B-3 portion without plans being submitted.
Chief Winter said they have a signed contract from these people
and they are going to buy this land if the proper zoning can be
secured.
Commissioner Haarr asked if they would agree to the Plan Commission
considering the Fire Station only or B-1 zoning on the remaining
land? Mr. Griffin said the purchasers would be agreeable to B-1.
Comm. Haarr said what they propose to do with the land is possi-
ble under B-1 zoning and we would prefer this.
Chairman Genrich asked if Mr. Griffin could bring a Site Plan
and Annexation Agreement to the meeting next week. Mr. Griffin
said he had a Plan but it was destroyed, so he was sure he could
have one available next week.
eD)
Chairman Genrich read a letter -fem Mr. Randall Rathjen regarding
the intent of the prospective purchaser to build a Savings and
Loan or a Bank.
Chairman Genrich asked Commissioner Haarr to outline the major
differences people might consider objectionable between B-1 and
B-3 zoning, for the residents in the audience.
Mr. Paul Schneider of 3308 Page Road in Arlington Heights asked
if there were any intentions of running Page Road through to
Dundee? Chief Winter said there is no way this street could be
extended to Dundee Road. Commissioner Haarr added that we also
require shrubs or some type of screening between single family
homes and business areas.
Commissioner Mendenhall stated that our Master Plan is still new
and if we put another piece of business on Dundee, Dundee Road
will always be business and nothing else.
Commissioner Fader asked if there was anyone present who objected
to this proposal?
3/21/73
Mr. Arnold Drobny of Arlington Heights said he does not object to
the Fire Station, but the areas west of the Church have no commer-
cial and should remain that way.
Commissioner Haarr said Frenchman 's Cove will have commercial on the
corner.
Mr. Daniel Schilach of Arlington Heights said the Fire Station is
enfringing on his residence and he does not feel it is centrally
located and will not serve him in Arlington Heights.
Chief Winter said this station would serve Mr. Schilach because,
on every fire'/4-Ehis end of Arlington Heights, we send a truck.
Also, this property was selected by the Fire Insurance Rating
Bureau as our south side station, fully intending that we will
become a Municipal Fire Department and will have a north side
station.
Mr. Schilach said his objections were really a matter of ignor-
ance on his part.
Mr. Ray Mahoney asked Chief Winter how much money they will save
the Village by locating on this property? Chief Winter said
approximately $150,000 in land acquisition alone. Mr. Mahoney
asked Chairman Genrich why then, does the Board object? Comm-
issioner Harris said there is a question on the method you save
the money. We are concerned, not with the Fire Station, but with
what the remaining property will be used for and the reason and
manner in which this thing has been handled. Mr. Mahoney asked if
he was referring to the fact a Trustee was involved? Commissioner
Harris said "no". He stated that this Commission is on record as
opposing any further commercial on Dundee Road and that is what
we are concerned about. Mr. Mahoney asked why they would oppose
a nice office building on Dundee Road? Commissioner Harris said
we do not yet know what they plan to build. Chairman Genrich said
we only want to wait to see what they plan to do with this property.
Chairman Genrich the Public Hearing at 9 :15 P.M. a.,-e-4",/ zu-w-cek.
Respectfully submitted,
Approved: Recording Secrets
//: //
Carl Gen&ich, Chairman