1976-10-20 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Balsamo/Frank (Phoenix)
Chevy Chase, Ridgewood
October 20, 1976
Chairman Carl Genrich called the Rmmeeting to rBatf9:1alo Grove,iIllinois.
the Public Service Building, 51 pp Boulevard,
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr, Harris
Mr. Keister
Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Jacobs
Mr. Kandel
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Mendenhall
Mr. Shields
Mr. Kuenz
Mr. Salvatore Balsamo, Developer
Also Present: Al Frank & Associates
Mr. Ken Rodeck, sneer
Mr. Frank Angelotti, Engineer
Mr. William Hitzeman, School District 96
Mr. Stan Crosland, Park District
Mr. William Kiddie, Park Board
Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee
Mr. Charles McCoy, Director of Public Works
Mr. Carl Rapp, Director of Community Development
Mr. William Whited, Administrative Assistant
Balsamo/Frank
Continuing the discussion from the Public Hearing, Chairman Genrich
stated he had talked with the Staff regarding the problem of where the
houses go on the lots and they felt that generally if there was some
way of showing rear yard set back lines on this plan, that would be a
way of handling it.
Chairman Genrich felt that identifying an enclosed storm drainage system
on the plan would give the enforcement of the concept that the Plan:-.
Commission is looking for, if the developer is agreeable.
Concerning the problem of the right-of-way, Chairman Genrich thought it
might be better to show exactly on the plan what the Plan Commission is
recommending. If the developer will agree on one or two points the
Plan Commission feels might improve the plan, we can get his commitment
to revise it and take action on the revised plan
Chairman Genrich asked if the developer is agreeable to showing an
enclosed storm drainage system on the plan. Mr. Rodeck stated that
the drainage is a function of the final engineering and this is not
Plan Commission
Page 2 October 20, 1976'
completed at this point. He added that he thinks the Commission is
talking about a combination of storm sewer drainage in drainage tile
and overland. Without reviewing the engineering he could say that they
would not let any more then five lots in one drainage direction drain
overland and at that point they would pick it up with drain tile or
pipe. Mr. McCoy said that lately he has gotten a commitment from
developers if in checking on grading and engineering they think any
rear yard drainage problems would occur, at that point they would
correct the problem or, if during the course of construction any problems
would occur, the developer will correct them then. Mr. Balsamo stated
that they would agree to providing additional drainage if it is required.
During the Public Hearing Mr. Rapp had suggested that the developer go
from a 60' right-of-way to a 50' right-of-way and off set the street
in order to increase the lot size by 5' . There was considerable
discussion of this during the Regular Meeting. The conclusion was
reached that the right-of-way would remain at 60' with sidewalks on
both sides but would be reduced to 50' on the cul-de-sacs with sidewalks
on one side. Mr. McCoy felt this would make the corner lots much nicer.
Mr. Balsamo agreed with this.
In response to a question from the Commission, Mr. Angelotti stated
that the rlght-of-way on the access to Camelot is 50' .
Chairman Genrich asked if the developer would agree to developing a
landscaping plan for the detention area. Mr. Balsamo stated that they
would be agreeable to this.
Chairman Genrich asked the developer if he would be agreeable to the
Village rezoning this project at. a later date from R-9 PUD to R-6.
Mr. Balsamo replied that he would be.
Commissioner Goldspiel pointed out to Mr. Balsamo lot #147 which was
marked as being 5800 square feet. Mr. Balsamo stated that this was an
error and marked this lot as a minimum of 6000 square feet on the
exhibit plan.
Chairman Genrich summarized the following points:
1. The developer has agreed to abide by a 30' rear set
back line on each lot.
2. The developer has agreed to work with the Staff in final
engineering for this plan and if there are instances where
the Staff feels that it is important that there be an
enclosed storm drainage pipe system behind certain homes,
the developer will install these.
3. The plan dated October 20, 1976, will be revised to show
a 50' right-of-way with sidewalks on one side only on the
cul-de-sacs. (This will give the benefit of certain larger
lots which the Commission feels is important.)
Plan:,.Commission
page 3 October 20, 1976
4. The matter of how the maintenance of the detention area
will be handled and whose responsibility it is has not
yet been determined and needs to be resolved.
5. The developer has agreed to prepare a landscaping plan
for the detention area in the southeast corner of the
property.
6. If at some later date the Village desires to rezone this
property from R-9 to R-6 zoning (as has been done on certain
other projects in the Village after construction) , the
developer is agreeable to doing this for the benefit of
the Village.
7, The Plan Commission calls the Board's attention to the fact
that a cash contribution to the Park District should be
considered in lieu of the private recreational facilities
which are no longer present but were present in the originally
approved plan.
8. The Plan Commission is still interested and the developer
is agreeable to changing the access road adjacent to Camelot.
(Subject to negotiation with Levitt.)
Commissioner Kandel made a motion that the Plan Commission recommend
to the Village Board the approval of the Frank/Balsamo Plan, marked
Exhibit #105-18 and dated 10/20/76, based on the following eight
points which are to be brought to the attention of the Village Board.
(The above listed points will be entered into the motion in the
report sent to the Village Board.) Commissioner Jacobs seconded
the motion. Discussion on this motion followed.
Commissioner Harris stated that he is not a believer that single-family
(good, bad or other) is great. He feels that this is a bad development.
He added that he is surprised to see a development like this from this
particular group of developers because they have built developments
in the Village far superior to this. He would rather gamble on the
possibility of the earlier plan being developed then approve this.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated his main objection is that this is a
single-family development in the guise of a planned unit development
but does not have the characteristics of a PUD. He can't see approving
something in such a miszoned category. He added that the PUD ordinance
is being used to undermine other ordinances.
Commissioner Keister agreed with Commissioners Harris and Goldspiel
in that at this point in time multi-family cannot be built in that
particular area. That being the case, he does not feel the Village
should jump into a single-family development guised under the PUD for
which the original intent was brought forth several years ago. He
said he thinks the Village should be flexible in considering single-family
but should drop back to the kind of zoning that will give the Village
a quality single-family development. He does not believe this is a
quality single-family development.
Plan Commission
Page 4 Oc tober2JQ, 1976
Regarding turning down a development because the Plan Commission does
not think it is the property use, Commissioner Kandel referred to the
area where Grand Spaulding Dodge is now expanding. He stated that at
one time the Plan Commission did not feel it wanted multi-family there
and turned down a developer and now it is commercial. He feels that
by turning a development down hoping that something better will come
along, the Village may end up with something worse because of the
economy today.
The following vote was taken on the motion:
Commissioner Harris no Commissioner Jacobs yes
Commissioner Keister no Commissioner Kandel yes
Commissioner Goldspiel no
The motion did not carry.
Commissioner Jacobs' Resignation
Chairman Genrich stated that he had received a letter from Commissioner
Jacobs in which he is submitting his resignation from the Plan
Commission as of November 20 due to professional and business commitments.
Chevy Chase
Chairman Genrich referred to the minutes of the meeting of October 13
in which he summarized points made by the Commission at that meeting
regarding the annexation of Chevy Chase. He read these points to the
Commission and stated that this is the message he will take into the
meeting that he has with the Staff in this regard.
Commissioner Jacobs felt that any workshop session with Chevy Chase
should be held with the Village Board and Plan Commission together.
Commissioner Goldspiel said that it seems to him that what is necessary
is a full scale master plan of the area and the Plan Commission should
consider::it as if they were considering a master plan.
Ridgewood
Commissioner Kandel stated that he reviewed with Bill Whited the Plat
of Survey for Ridgewood No. 2. There are eight items that have to be
added to the plat. The linen has to be revised to incorporate these
items and the developer wants to get it before the Board on Monday
night. To enable him to do this the plat should be approved by the
Plan Commission tonight. Commissioner Kandel moved that the Plan
Commission recommend to the Village Board the tentative approval of
the Plat of Survey for Ridgewood No. 2, marked Exhibit #103-36 in the
Plan Commission files,based on the inclusion of the eight items listed:
1. Put on the scale.
2. Put on the monuments.
3. Submit letter from the Postmaster.
Plan Commission
page 5 October 20, 1976
4. Show building setback lines.
5. Addition of "hereby dedicated streets."
6. Change "hereby dedicated school site" to "hereby
dedicated public use."
7. Need two small angles in the northeast and northwest.
8. Surveyor must sign and put his seal on the plat.
The motion was seconded and the following vote was taken:
Commissioner Harris yes Commissioner Jacobs yes
Commissioner Keister yes Commissioner Kandel yes
Commissioner Goldspiel abstain
Motion carried.
Commissioner Goldspiel objected to the procedure. He said that he
cannot conceive of approving the plat without the plat being at the
meeting or being seen by more then one member of the Commission. This
is something that should be done by the entire °'Commission and not just
a committee of the Commission.
Adjournment
Commissioner Kandel moved that the meeting be adjourned. Commissioner
Keister seconded the motion. The meeting adjourned at 10:40 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
0AleakgoA[Alkti
i a sonhart
Recording Secretary
APPROVED:
ZA-ti
Carl Genrich, Chairman
FOOTNOTE: Approval of Minutes of September 15. Correction was made
on page 4, paragraph 5, line 2. Insert "storm" between "the" and nn:_ /1151'it)
"water". Minutes approved. (Per correction at November 3 meeting).�J�
PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Balsamo/Frank (Phoenix)
October 20, 1976
Chairman Carl Genrich calledinthe 1Public
RauppHearing
Boulevard,°Buffalo Grooat ep•M•
in the Public Service Building, 5
Illinois.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr. Harris
Mr. Keister
Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Jacobs
Mr. Kandel
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Mendenhall
Mr. Shields
Mr. Kuenz
Mr. Salvatore Balsam°, Developer
Also Present: Mr. Ken Rodeck, Al Frank & Associates
Mr. Frank Angelotti, Engineer
Mr. William Hitzeman, School District 96
Mr. Stan Crosland, Park District
Mr. William Kiddie, Park Board
Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee
Mr. Charles McCoy, Director of Public Works
Mr. CarlRapp,
Director of Community Development
Mr. William Whited, Administrative Assistant
Chairman Genrich read the Notice of Public Hearing published in the
Buffalo Grove Herald. He swore in Mr. Salvatore Balsamo, Mr. Ken Rodeck,
and Mr. Frank Angelotti as witnesses and asked them to begin their
presentation.
Mr. Balsamo stated that the development includes 33 acres located in
the northwest section of Route 83 and Busch Road. It is surrounded
on the south, 'north and east by single-family housing. The site was
zoned as part of a four parcel zoning in Buffalo Grove as R-9 PUD
which allowed the construction of 241 townhomes in accordance with an
approved plan and in accordance with the village ordinances.
Mr. Balsamo stated that they are asking for an amendment to ordinance
#74-22a which would allow them to build 151 homes on single-family lots
averaging 6500 square feet instead of the 241 townhomes which it is
presently zoned for.
Mr. Balsamo presented the plan which is marked Exhibit #105-18 in the
Plan Commission files. At the request of Commissioner Jacobs, Mr. Balsamo
dated the plan 10/20/76 and signed it. Mr. Balsamo stated that the plan
has been modified to include some of the suggestions made by the Plan
Commission at previous meetings.
Plan Commission
Page 2 October 20, 1976
Mr. Balsamo gave an estimated valuation of the construction of this
plan and the townhouse plan:
Townhouse plan - $10,800,000
Single-family plan - $11,300,000
Tax Revenue per Child:
Townhouses - District 96 - 260
District 125 - 883
Single-family - District 96 - 513
District 125 - 1,355
III
School Contribution:
Townhouse - 94.50 per unit
Single-family - 150.82 per unit
Mr. Balsamo further stated that by changing the plan to single-family
the density will be reduced from 7.6 units per acre to 4.5 units
per acre.
Mr. Hitzeman stated that he would like to have the question resolved
that any further attempt to reopen negotiations of the public fund
contributions at this time would be null and void. Chairman Genrich
stated that at this point he does not think the Plan Commission can
do this but it would be a proper question to ask the Village Board.
Mr. Hitzeman asked if the Plan Commission would be in the position to
recommend such a step to the Village Board.
In response to Mr. Keister, Mr. Hitzeman stated that in the original
pre-annexation agreement there was $103,000 totally locked into
the agreement in 1972. They felt at that time that this was inadequate
based on the number of units projected. It was far below the number
of units projected, particularly when you consider that three school
districts would be involved. The school district wonders if in view
of the fact that there has been a change in the plan, that does not
in essence open the door to the possibility of renegotiating the
initial payment.
Mr. Crosland reviewed his memo dated October 20, 1976. He asked that
it be considered an advisory document. He summarized the points
made in the memo stating that should the development have fallen under
Resolution 72-35 they would have been required to provide 3.62
acres for Parks and Recreation. However, because of the original
agreements they are not required to provide land donations with
regard to the resolution.
Mr. Crosland further stated that the street design has been revised
and allows access through the Camelot subdivision. Some discussions
earlier stated this would allow them to use a portion of the park
provided through the donations of the Camelot developer. He added
that the entire neighborhood is coming outttacre poor."
1
Plan Commission
Page 3 October 20, 1976
Mr. Crosland read statement five in which he suggests that the Village
encourage-the developers to provide cash donations for the construction
of recreational facilities in the Camelot sub-division and/or re-evaluate
their current position of providing nothing internally in their own
sub-division.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he assumes the street pattern is
being changed to open to the east yet on the final drawings, this is
not shown. Mr. Balsamo stated that they cannot show the outlet until
they get approval from Levitt which they cannot get until it is approved
by the Village Board. Mr. Whited stated that Levitt is willing to make
the change as long as the conditions between Levitt and Frank are met.
They are not doing anything as far as construction yet. Mr. Balsamo
added that they have a letter from Levitt stating that they will do this.
Mr. Rapp stated that previously the discussion has lent itself to the
fact that the lots are very small. From an engineering point of view,
if they go from a 60' to a 50' right-of-way and off-set the street,
they could increase the lot size by 5' per lot. There would still be
a 20' back-to-back pavement.
Mr. Angelotti stated he would like to see the pavement stay centered
with a 50' right-of-way and take a 10' easement on either side of the
right-of-way to locate the sanitary sewer and water lines. The first
20' or 25' of the lot are not used in any way so the 10' easement would
not harm the lot and allow the utilities to be placed under the pavement
or between the curb and public walks.
Mr. Rapp stated that due to the size of the lot and type of homes, he
thinks they should request and get an agreement on some additional
rear yard drainage with either a storm sewer or drain tiles. He feels
it will become necessary in any lots that the grading presents a
problem due to size. Commissioner Keister asked if this would create
a larger diameter storm sewer for the Village in the street. Mr. Rapp
replied that it wouldn't because this water is to be handled in the
rear lot line through a drainage Swale. In response to Commissioner
Kandel, Mr. Rapp stated that At would be more beneficial to the
homeowner and Village to have the drainage enclosed and have a level
yard.
Mr. Rodeck stated that they will partially- have-. underground pipes.
They will still bring the water to the back of the property but will
not have a long expanse of lots between drains. Most of the water will
be picked up with drainage pipe systems.
Mr. Rapp stated that he would want the option for additional rear yard
storm sewer and inlets to be provided if they feel they are needed.
Commissioner Kandel asked if the developer would indicate a rear yard
lot line depth, would that be`,theanswer? Mr. Rapp replied that it
would.
Mr. Rapp stated that he had a meeting with Levitt and theyhave
they would entertain said
the idea of oversizing the storm sewer in Camelot
and providing more detention if the area in the southeast corner of
Plan Commission
Page 4 October 20, 1976
the Balsamo/Frank development were used for recreation. In response
to Commissioner Goldspiel, Mr. Angelotti stated that this area is
bowl shaped and from the rim of the bowl to the bottom it would be
5' .' He added that they have not decided whether to make this a detention
or retention area. If it is used for retention there would be approximately
a one-acre lake in the center. The lake would be at least 8' deep.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked who would be maintaining the -area.
Mr. Balsamo stated that the solution of the detention area is something
that Mr. Frank would work out with the Village engineers. A homeowners'
association would have to maintain it along with the entranceway.
He added that the detention area would be graded and sodded or land-
scaped. Commissioner Jacobs asked if they would have any objection to
proposing some type of landscaping plan so anyone traveling up Route 83
would have an attractive screening to look at. Mr. Balsamo stated that
he feels it would be in their best interest that there be some visual
barrier.
Commissioner Jacobs asked what would be backing up to the east of the
detention basin. Mr. Angelotti replied that single-family homes
would be on the east and their rear lot line would be the east line
of the basin.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked how large the detention area is.
Mr. Angelotti replied that it is 1.76 acres.
Mr. Crosland stated that the area is very marginal for recreation use.
He would discard it as a viable recreation area.
Mr. Kiddie suggested that some agreement be worked out that some
amenities can be provided off-site to serve the needs of the people
in the development.
Commissioner Harris asked how much money will be donated to the
school district from this project. Mr. Balsamo replied around $22,000
to $23,000 regardless of what is built there.
Commissioner Harris stated that according to the resolution, if the
developer cannot give land or provide recreation facilities he has to
give dollars. It is his opinion that since they have dropped the
recreation they are no longer complying with the ordinance so a cash
donation should be provided. Mr. Balsamo stated that it is their
position that this should be talked about with the Village Board and
not the Plan Commission. He added that they understand the need for
recreation facilities and their relationship with Levitt has been
that they would like to eet oin with them in recreation that would
r \�� satisfy both communities. They will sit down with Levitt but cannot
make any commitments to anything because we are talking about a third
party interest.
Commissioner Keister asked if the developer would be willing to
negotiate with the Park District for some sort of cash donation to
the Park District for building facilities on the Levitt property.
Mr. Balsamo replied that they would not be willing to do this.
Plan Commission
page 5 October 20, 1976
Commissioner Keister stated that due to problems in the Village caused
by lot size in relation to drainage the Village has become sensitive
to the type of housing and where it is built with regard to the lot
size. He feels further consideration should be given to what the gross
area is at ground level on any particular site. Also, it is important
to put the right house on the right lot. In conjunction with the rear
yard drainage, the Plan Commission might want to consider or have the
developer give some input on what is the maximum gross area at the
ground level that they would contemplate building on these lots and
possibly even tie them down to where the building would be situated
on the lot. The size of the right-of-way and whether there is going
to be some type of underground storm sewer system for the rear lot
have to be considered with this.
Mr. Balsamo presented a drawing illustrating the problems that they
have found relative to drainage in a couple of developments. It also
shored how the drainage should be handled in these instances.
In response to Commissioner Jacobs, Mr. Balsamo stated that the square
footage of the houses tohbuilt in this development is from 1500 to
2000 square feet.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if there would or would not be a homeowners'
association. Mr. Rodeck stated that they would create one for.. the
common areas (cul-de-sacs, entrance way, maintenance of detention area).
There was further discussion regarding the establishment of a homeowners'
association in which Mr. Rodeck stated that the entrance way is their
own custom design with custom landscaping and they have not discussed
with the Village whether they will maintain this particular type of
landscaping. If they wont do it, the developer will have to set up
an association to maintain it.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that in the Workshop presentation they
discussed a minimum lot size of 6000 square feet. There are lots
shown on this plan which are less than this. Mr. Balsamo stated that
this was an error by the draftsman and marked the exhibit copy of the
plan with the correct dimensions.
The Public Hearing adjourned at 9:14 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
APPROVED: 714
Li da Isonhart
(/;11
Recording Secretary
Carl Genrich, Chairman