1976-11-17 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Chevy Chase
November 17, 1976
Chairman Carl Genrich called the meeting to order at 8:05 P.M. in the
Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr. Mendenhall
Mr. Harris
Mr. Keister
Mr. Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
x r. Jacobs
Mr. Kandel
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Kuenz
Also Present: Mr. William Johnson, Owner, Chevy Chase
Mr. Gerald Sherman, Attorney
Mr. Robert Grossman, Associated Planners
Mr. William Kiddie, Park District
Residents of Chevy Chase
Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee
Mrs. Donna Force, Prospective Member
Mr. Carl Rapp, Director of Community Development
Mr. William Whited, Administrative Assistant
Approval of Minutes
Commissioner Mendenhall moved to approve the minutes of November 3, 1976.
Commissioner Shields seconded the motion. The motion carried that the
minutes be approved subject to the following changes: Page 3, paragraph 1,
insert the word "eastern" before "building" in line 3; page 4, paragraph 6,
add "and they would consider it" to the last sentence; page 4, paragraph 7,
change sentence 2 to read, "Mr. McCoy stated that the circumstances causing
the flooding have been corrected."
Chevy Chase
At the previous meeting with Chevy Chase, residents of the single-family
homes in Chevy Chase not scheduled for annexation expressed their concern
regarding their water supply and whether they would be forced to annex
into Buffalo Grove, Chairman Genrich explained to the residents present
tonight that the Village legally cannot do anything to interfere with
their water supply. He added there is no intent on the part of the
Village at this point in time to take any steps to annex the subdivision
most of the residents live in.
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Page 2 November 17, 1976
Chairman Genrich stated that tonight's meeting would be of a conceptual
nature and they would try to stay away from details. He asked Mr. Sherman
to begin their presentation.
Mr. Sherman stated that at the previous meeting it was made clear that the
annexation would be beneficial to the Johnson family. He added that they
also think it would be of substantial benefit to the Village. This may
be the last time they have an opportunity to acquire a tract of land this
large under common ownership. It would bring the community closer to
Lake Michigan water. It also would increase the tax base because roughly
2/3 of the land proposed for annexation will be industrial and commercial.
Mr. Sherman stated that they feel this annexation would not pose any
additional burdens to the sewer and water system. The owner and/or
developer will be responsible for construction of sewer and water.
Mr. Sherman went on to state that there are recreational activities that
this area will offer to the community. There will be a substantial lake
and a water network that winds throughout the entire property that will
be available for public use.
Mr. Grossman displayed an aerial photograph of the central portion of
the property stating that the property consists of 646 acres and is 2 `
miles in an east-west direction. Mr. Grossman also showed a plan showing
the relationship of the property to the present corporate limits of the
Village and a superficial soils inventory by the U. S. Department of
Agriculture which shows the classification of soils. The area with the
best soil is located east of Milwaukee Avenue and has been condemned by
the Lake County Forest Preserve District.
Mr. Grossman presented an illustration showing the present zoning of the
property. The portion of the property to the west is in the planning
area of Buffalo Grove. To the north are Inverrary and Winston Square.
This area is zoned UR3-C which is multiple-family zoning in Lake County.
Other zoning shown in Lake County is UR2, a sub-divided area; UR1, single
family with 8,000-9,000 square foot lots; and, commercial along Milwaukee
Avenue. In Cook County there is B-5 and M-1.
A proposed land use plan was shown next by Mr. Grossman. The area to the
west is identified as an industrial tract. Among the areas they consider
givens are the forest preserve tract, the land zoned for industrial and
commercial in Cook County and the single-family sub-division.
Mr. Grossman stated they looked into alternatives to save the golf course
but because of MSD requirements they are satisfied there is no possibility
of doing this. Once the golf course was no longer a viable possibility,
they looked into other features. The stream will offer major recreational
opportunities to people living on the site. They have negotiated two
major intersections with the highway department with an additional entrance
to the north. Between the two intersections is an area they felt was best
suited to an office complex. This will overlook the water system. The
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Page 3 November 17, 1976
multi-family and townhouse areas are mixed. Mr. Grossman stated that they
propose the densities be broken up. They are thinking of two and three-story
apartment buildings.
Referring to the open space and parks, Mr. Grossman stated that the total
open space and parks in their proposal is roughly 60 acres and presently
the Village has 45 acres.
Mr. Grossman referred to the proposed zoning map stating that the proposed
zoning include B1, B2, B3 for commercial; M1 districts for the industrial
areas; R8 and R9 for multi-family and R6 and R5 for single-family.
Mr. Grossman presented a map showing the proposed annexation. He stated
the Lake County Forest Preserve District is reluctant to have their
land annexed into the Village so the area proposed for annexation is
reduced by 150 acres. The existing single-family area is-not proposed
for annexation at the present time.
Mr. Grossman referred to a revision of Table 1 which had been distributed
to the commissioners at an earlier date. The actual area proposed for
annexation is 443.7 acres. Referring back to the proposed annexation
map, Mr. Grossman stated that the total area shown in yellow on this is
not under the control of the Johnson family or is inaccessible and amounts
to 34.4 acres.
A cross-section showing how the open space relates to housing was shown
to the Commission. Mr. Grossman said the pond would be 15'-16' deep.
Regarding the school and park land dedications, Mr. Grossman stated that
they take the position that it would not be the responsibility of the
Johnson family to make land dedications for areas already developed. The
calculations should be based on what they are asking to be annexed and
what is under the control of the Johnson family. Mr. Sherman added that
the areas to the east of Milwaukee Avenue already have a dedicated park.
Mr. Grossman said that the park shown along the river east of Milwaukee
are platted but were never taken by anyone.
Mr. Grossman referred to the items listed in the minutes of August 18
which were to be taken care of before tonight's meeting and replied to
these.
At that meeting it was stated that there is a deficit of 10 acres in their
donation. They do not think there is a deficit. In their calculations
the total number of people that will be generated from the townhouses and
apartments will be 4,606. This figure was based on the following:
Townhouses - 97.4 acres which would produce 780 dwelling units = 257 people
Apartments - 74.7 acres which would produce 1195 dwelling units= 2,032 people
4,606
The requirement is 5.5 acres per 1,000 which would mean 25.3 acres are required.
Their total dedication is 60.4 acres. They are offering a 51 acres school
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Page 4 November 17, 1976
site. The required is 8 acres. If it is decided that the school site
should be made larger, they would do this by changing the location of a
collector roadway. They calculate that there will be 503 elementary,
114 junior high and 162 high school students. Regarding the quality of
the land, Mr. Grossman stated that the park and school sites are on the
prettiest parts of the site.
At the previous meeting the Plan Commission asked the Johnson family to
show the phasing of the development when they returned this week. Mr. Grossman
stated the first phase would be to connect the existing customers on the
present utility system to the Lake County sewer system. This means extending
the line through Inverrary and Winston Square. There is some existing
capacity in the sewer line coming from the north and this would provide for
the development of the properties in area 1. Phase 2 will be the area to
the east and southwest. Phase 3 will be the central area, phase 4 the
commercial, phase 5 the area just east of the tracks and phase 6 will be
the industrial. Mr. Grossman added that they may drop a portion of phase 1
and take in part of phase 2 along Milwaukee Avenue if they have ah opportunity
to develop it.
In response to other requests made by the Plan Commission at the August 18
meeting, Mr. Grossman stated that they will meet with the Park District
tomorrow night, the draft of the annexation agreement and list of property
owners are almost prepared and the planning reports were sent to the Park
and School Districts.
Chairman Genrich asked if they have an overview of what they visualize for
the annexation agreement. Mr. Sherman stated that he would prefer presenting
it as a whole. The area would be zoned but there would be a subsequent
requirement of preliminary and then final plat approval. This will be put
into the annexation agreement.
Mr. Johnson stated that he had personal comments to make regarding the
following in Mr. Larson's memo of November 12:
Paragraph lA - Either the owner or developer would be responsible
for the retention basin and roads. Once annexed, however, he thinks
it should be the Village's responsibility to provide for sidewalks,
bike paths and landscaping.
Paragraph 1B - Regarding sentence two, there is a question of
feasibility. This is something they will have to think about.
Paragraph 1C - This should read "owner and/or developer." Also,
if they provide some of the improvements they feel they should
receive a payback on either tap-on fees or eventual water and
sewer fees or however it can be worked out with the Village.
Paragraphs El and E2 - The concept outlined would be looked
upon with great askance by developers. If the builder does
not want to comply with the amenities listed they would be
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Page 5 November 17, 1976
dealing with a piece of land that is unsaleable. Also, the
densities as outlined are exceedingly low unless additional
amenities are met and this may lock them into a situation where
they cannot sell the property because the builder may not want
to provide these amenities.
Mr. Whited reviewed the expenditures. The total cost benefit figure is
$74,854. He added that this is definitely not a project that loses money.
The figures he gave were for the Village only.
Commissioner Keister asked if they see any potential for single-family
development in the area. Mr. Grossman replied that the high cost of working
with the land and retention/detention requirements put land cost too high.
With regard to the number of zoning areas, Commissioner Keister asked if
they are still going with what they originally presented. With the zoning
they are asking for they will end up with very small lots. If there is
potential for single-family it should be zoned for single-family and if that
doesn't occur and a developer wants to purchase the land and develop it
at a higher density, Commissioner Keister would rather have him come in
with a plan for changing the zoning. Mr. Grossman replied that R8 and
R9 allow single-family. He further stated that they must have flexibility
to allow different types of land use. What is the market today may not be
the market tomorrow and they don't want to get locked into a land use.
Commissioner Keister stated that without a bike path arrangement it would
appear there could be excessive travel from the eastern portion of the
property to the school. Mr. Grossman explained that the distance is
approximately 3 mile and he does not think that is too far to walk. Also,
there is a bridge across the pond so there is a way to travel internally.
In response to Commissioner Keister, Mr. Sherman said it will be the
developer's responsibility to put in sidewalks in accordance with Village
standards. Mr. Johnson added to this that he does not think the owner
would want to be responsible for the bike path or landscaping, however.
Commissioner Kandel asked what impact the MSD late on the west side of
the Village would have on this property. Mr. Grossman replied that it
is an entirely different drainage system.
Commissioner Kandel wanted to reiterate his feeling on single-family zoning
for the property. To allow the higher density zoning at the outset takes
a lot of the control out of the Village's hands on how this property will
be developed. He would like to have the developer come back and ask for
a change to a higher density if necessary. In response to this, Mr. Sherman
stated that from the cost to the Village standpoint the higher density is
better. Commissioner Kandel said that in an area that is already an asset
the best possible use should be -made of_it. The cost difference could be
made up in industrial cost revenues. Mr. Sherman pointed out that anumber
of controls are built into R8 and R9 with respect to single-family development,
to which Commissioner Kandel replied that the area that is most useable for
development could best serve the Village with a lower density than R8 or R9.
plan Commission
Page 6 November 17, 1976
Mr. Grossman stated that the land through the central portion of the site
is low. The flood plain would have to be deepened to make it buildable.
The early estimates of just moving the land for retention is $8,000 an
acre. After adding the improvement costs and land costs it would cost
$52,000 to make the land buildable for single-family. Chairman Genrich
asked the Staff to look into this and see if there are adequate controls.
Commissioner Harris asked what agreements the Johnson family would be
willing to make to make sure the Village gets a variety of housing types.
Mr. Sherman replied that they would be willing to incorporate this within
reason in the annexation agreement. They will accept the controls
specified in the R8 and R9 districts plus additional controls restricting
housing types to certain maximums.
Commissioner Harris inquired about the possibility of putting single-family
along the river where the trees are. The reply was that there are not
a lot of trees in that area and this area is not as desirable as other
parts of the property.
Commissioner Harris stated he would like to see something for the
elderly on a site this size. Mr. Grossman replied that this is a pos-
sibility but the Johnson family is not in development. The supply and
demand factor governs the economic system, housing market and the eventual
sale of this property. Preplanning it does not seem realistic.
There was a short discussion regarding the 10-acre deficit figure.
Commissioner Harris did not think this figure was accurate.
In response to a question from Commissioner Harris regarding the grading,
Mr. Johnson stated that the grading would be done in phases. Compensation
grading will take place as the development takes place. Concerning who
would do the grading, it would depend on the agreement the seller made
with each individual developer.
Commissioner Harris stated that after so many acres of residential are
developed there must be some commercial or industry. He would like this
in the annexation agreement. Mr. Johnson replied that this is something
they will have to discuss.
Commissioner Mendenhall stated that he thinks the plan looks like a big
apartment complex. He asked if there are sidewalks in the single-family
area east of Milwaukee Avenue and if the water and sewer will meet Village
requirements. Mr. Johnson replied that there are some sidewalks but that
the water and sewer will not meet the requirements.
Regarding the parks that are platted along the river, Commissioner Mendenhall
asked if these can be moved. Mr. Sherman said the existing plat presents
problems in moving parks but there may be a possibility.
One of the single-family residents asked if the stream that runs through
the property now will be enlarged. He added that they have had the
water tested and according to the tests it is dead and he asked if the
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Page 7 November 17, 1976
lake they plan will be a dead lake also. In response, Mr. Grossman stated
the stream would be enlarged. They were not aware the stream was polluted.
Mr. Sherman stated the lake will not be for swimming. To this Mr. Rapp
added that they will meet with the EPA on this site and the water quality
will be adhered to.
Mr. William Frost, Vice-President of the Homeowners' Association, suggested
that the R1 district be placed just west of Chevy Chase Drive because it
is the same elevation as the homes east of Chevy Chase Drive and they would
not have to move the earth. Another resident concurred with this and added
that they will be an island in the middle of apartments. Leo Vogler, a
resident, stated that there are enough houses, apartments and condominiums.
He would rather see the area remain open land and asked the Plan Commission
to take this into consideration.
� r. Rapp reported that they have done a full analysis on the existing water
(,1;� i and they are very antiquated. As much as possible will be salvaged,
however, and water will be provided. Regarding the sewage treatment plant,
he has met with the EPA and will meet tomorrow with Lake County to get
federal funding to assist the people living in the area so they won't have
to pay on this later.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the portions not annexed would be a deficit
to the Village. Mr. Whited replied that he would suspect any service the
Village provides they would pay for. Some money may be lost because the
Village has to bring what is presently there up to our standards.
Commissioner Goldspiel concurred with the other commissioners regarding
the need for more diversity on the type of development. He further stated
that in looking at this tract there seems there are some very positive
things about it, especially in terms of a transportation pattern. He asked
if any kind of market research has been done on the saleability of the land.
Mr. Sherman replied that they have done a considerable amount of research
through Mr. Grossman's office and individual contacts. They have had certain
developers go along with them as they worked out the phases. There seems
to be a market at this point for the townhouses, probably in fourplex units.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked about a road shown between Lake-Cook Road
and Milwaukee Avenue. Mr. Grossman stated that this was a service road in
the commercial area. Mr. Sherman added that this has been changed and
there will be only one opening onto Lake-Cook Road. Commissioner Goldspiel
asked if the stub streets on the north connect to openings to the north.
Mr. Grossman replied that they did. In response to another question from
Commissioner Goldspiel, Mr. Grossman stated that only the major collector
streets are shown on the plan.
A resident of the single-family homes entered her objection to the plan
stating that they would be surrounded by apartments.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that they previously indicated that they
were not basing their figures on park donations on platted single-family.
He asked if they are including platted single-family which is not built
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Page 8 November 17, 1976
upon and still under Johnson ownership. Mr. Grossman replied that they
are not including these areas, to which Commissioner Goldspiel responded
that it is his personal position that if the Johnson family wants to annex
these areas, they should be included in the computation.
Mr. Kiddle stated that he and his board have not received any of the new
computations. He added that it is his contention that the Johnson family
has not met the requirements of Resolution 72-35 and quality of the land.
Chairman Genrich summarized the key points of the meeting as follows:
1. The developer will provide copies of the document showing
the exact area to be annexed to the Plan Commission.
2. The phasing, financing of water, drainage network and sewer
system should be addressed in the annexation agreement.
3. The developer should meet with the School District.
4. A list of surrounding property owners should be supplied
to the Plan Commission for the Notice of Public Hearing.
5, By December 1, the Staff should have a-written Staff Report.
Also, the Staff should look at the single-family platted area
near the river and give their feelings in terms of will it
develop as single-family and can it be upgraded in any way?
(a) Chairman Genrich would like the Staff to find out
what it can about the park site along the river.
Look into this with the Park District staff and
see if there is any potential for accepting it.
6. Provide drafts of the annexation agreement by Wednesday, December 1.
7. The Staff will check with the Appearance Commission regarding
trees that would be worthy of saving.
8. The _Plan Commission would prefer to go with amenity bonuses
as set forth in the PUD Ordinance.
9. The Plan Commission wants to emphasize their stance that they would
like to see some area zoned for single-family development.
10. The Plan Commission would like to see if there are some better
ways of attaining variety in this development. They would like
both the Staff and developer to consider this.
11. The Staff should meet with the Park District Staff and Mr. Grossman
and make sure they are comfortable with the park situation and
interpret the ordinance with them.
Plan Commission
Page 9 November 17, 1976
12. The Plan Commission would like the Staff to tell in their
report what the implications will be for the people in the
unincorporated area in terms of water and sewer cost (include
the rates).
13. Mr. Whited and Mr. Rapp will look into the road system and
internal transportation. Check with Lake County Transportation
Study and see if there is any possibility of getting a'commuter
station in there.
Commissioner Mendenhall objected to Mr. Larson's memo of November 12 in
which he listed site development controls. They didn't follow the PUD
Ordinance. He also objected to Mr. Larson taking the initiative he did
in writing the controls. Chairman Genrich stated that it was a joint
effort between him and Mr. Larson to try to give some direction to this.
After further discussion and a poll of the Commission it was decided that
they would go with the amenities listed in the PUD Ordinance although
this isn't a PUD.
Adjournment
Commissioner Keister moved that the meeting adjourn. Commissioner Kandel
seconded the motion and the meeting adjourned at 11:10 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
4nda Isonhart
Recording Secretary
APPROVED:
Carl Genrich, Chairman
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