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1977-01-05 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION Mueller Farm January 5, 1977 Chairman Carl Genrich called the meeting to order at 8:10 P.M. in the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard. Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich Mr. Mendenhall Mr. Harris Mr. Keister Mr. Shields Mr. Goldspiel Mr. Kandel Mrs. Force Commissioners Absent: Mr. Jacobs Also Present: Mr. David H. Addis, Attorney Mr. Robert E. Cowhey, Engineer Mr. Gerald A. Estes, Economics Research Associates Mr. Robert Bogart, Trustee Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee Mr. Bart Delaney, Staff Liaison Mr. Ron Helms, Appearance Commission Mr. Carl Rapp, Director of Community Development Approval of Minutes Commissioner Shields moved to approve the minutes of the Plaza Verde Public Hearing of November 10. Commissioner Mendenhall seconded the motion. The motion carried that the minutes be approved. There were no changes or corrections. Commissioner Shields moved to approve the minutes of the Zale Public Hearing of November 10. Commissioner Keister seconded the motion. The motion carried that the minutes be approved subject to the following change: Change the last sentence on the last page to read, "Mr. Zale decided that the entire commercial area should be B-1." Commissioner Shields moved to approve the minutes of the Special Meeting of November 10. Commissioner Harris seconded the motion. Commissioner Mendenhall questioned the wording of the motion as written in the minutes. He thought he had said that the developer would come back for final approval whether a savings and loan was developed or not. The motion as written in the minutes states that the developer would come back only if something other than a savings and loan is built. After further discussion, Commissioner Mendenhall suggested it be left as it reads in the minutes. The motion carried that the minutes be approved. page 2 Plan Commission January 5, 1977 Commissioner Mendenhall moved to approve the minutes of the Regular Meeting of November 17. Commissioner Harris seconded the motion. The motion carried that the minutes be approved subject to the following change: On page 7, paragraph 2, change "water controls" to "water facilities". Commissioner Kandel moved to approve the minutes of the Special Meeting of December 8. Commissioner Harris seconded the motion. The motion carried that the minutes be approved subject to the following change: On page 2, change the second paragraph from the bottom to read as follows, "Commissioner Keister suggested that even with the lot added, it may not be what the Park District wants because they have not acted on it." Communications Chairman Genrich stated that the owners of the Chevy Chase Golf Course have a tentative offer from the Wheeling Park District to purchase the golf course. The family has announced intentions to pursue the offer and if the Park District can come up with the money, they intend to sell the golf course to them. As a result, the Plan Commission probably will not be taking any action in this regard in the next three or four months. Chairman Genrich read a letter which was sent to Mr. Larson from Stevenson High School dated December 30 inviting Mr. Larson and members of the Plan Commission to attend a meeting on February 10 regarding future plans for Buffalo Grove. Commissioners Kandel, Harris, Force and Keister stated they would attend the meeting. Mueller Farm Mr. David Addis showed the plan which had been distributed at an earlier date to the Plan Commission members. He stated that he is the attorney for Busch Road Venture which has an option to buy this property. The property is 86 acres which fronts on Busch Road near the intersection of Route 83. It is generally called the Mueller Farm. His clients are the First Savings Corporation and Raymond T. Green. The proposal is to subdivide the 86 acres into a subdivision of 304 lots. It will be made up of single-family homes which will be similar to plans presented at the meeting. The lot sizes are 60x110 and larger, with very few exceptions. They meet the R-5 zoning classifications of the Village with no variations. The 60x110 lots border on the park and public areas. The houses are mostly in the 2200 to 2600 square foot size. They are one-story, two-story, bi-level and tri-level. The land planning has been done by Mr. Gerald Estes and the engineering is being done by Mr. Robert Cowhey. 1 Chairman Genrich stated that the developer is essentially asking for annexation, zoning and plan approval. He asked if they understood that they will have to supply an annexation agreement. Mr. Addis replied that they did. Page 3 Plan Commission January 5, 1977 Mr. Estes stated that there are two lot sizes. The 60x110 lots would adjoin the open space areas and are R-6 type lots. The normal lot is 60x120 and meet R-5 requirements. The open space area follows the natural low depressional area on the east border of this site. There are also two connecting trailways. The total amount of open space which would be for recreational use as well as storm water detention is approximately 12% of the site (101 acres). There is a park on the adjoining property to the east which has two retention/detention areas plus a park. Mr. Estes stated that it is their plan to take the detention from this area and handle this on their property and create more open space on the adjoining property. They would be indirectly creating another two or three acres of recreation area. Mr. Estes stated that the road network is one that is in conformity with the overall Master Plan and the general development plan of the Surety property. It includes a provision for an 80' collector street going east and west. It also provides for an additional right-of-way for expansion of both Busch Road and a future north-south through street on the east line of the property. Two trails have been indicated on the plan. One leads from the main park area north to the school and recreation site. The other leads in an east-west direction. Mr. Estes stated that there are about 59 lots which are 60x110. These will be classified as R-6 lots. They took 10' off of the rear line when the lot adjoined open space. If the 10' were put back on, there would be about one acre less of open space. The developer felt that because these lots adjoin the open space area they could functionally and physically have 10' less in terms of lot depth. Commissioner Mendenhall questioned the desirability of moving the open space to the west side. He thought this would be best. Mr. Estes replied that the open space on the property to the east is in the most natural area and they would like to tie in with it. There would be a more positive impact for the whole development. If they were to break up the open space and spread it around the site, they would be dissipating the value of it. If it is put on the west side, they would end up with a small and less usable open space. Commissioner Mendenhall asked how wide the open space is. Mr. Estes replied that it is 150x300 at the widest point and 150x150 at the narrowest. Commissioner Mendenhall stated that with the configuration of the park as it exists now, about all it could be used for is to walk or ride through. Commission Mendenhall asked if they had considered taking out a lot in the northwest corner for an access to the school. Mr. Estes stated that there is a question as to how the area to the north might be planned. There is a major collector road that comes up now and will extend north Page 4 Plan Commission January 5, 1977 and separates the site from the school. There was a question of where the trail should come through and they felt this would provide the maximum service. Commissioner Harris asked for a brief description on the existing topography. Mr. Estes stated that there is a drainage divide that separates the drainage on the property into one major drainage shed going south and the other going north. The drainage pattern on the southern part of the property is roughly along the eastern border of the south portion. There is one drainage swale coming in from the west and roughly parallels the trail system. They would continue this north across the divide. There is about 15' total change in the topography from the highest point to the lowest point. The property is relatively flat. Chairman Genrich asked if the areas circled on the plan are flood plains. Mr. Estes stated that they are areas that are designated on the hydrologic atlas as flood plain. They went out and took soil borings in each one and checked them and are doing a detailed determination of where the flood plain is on this property. Commissioner Harris asked Mr. Estes why the developer to the east would place the park where they did since the entire parcel is buildable. Mr. Estes replied that in terms of the flow of water, this is a natural area for an open space. Commissioner Harris stated that he is concerned about the postage stamp size parks that the Village is developing. There is an opportunity here for a decent size park by combining their land with what has already been designated as park to the west. Mr. Addis stated that the location of the park to the west is logical from that developer's scheme but illogical to him. Commissioner Harris suggested that the developer swap some land with Levitt to create a larger park on the eastern side of the property. The developer stated that this would make sense to them if there is still time to do it. Commissioner Harris questioned the fact that the developer is requesting two classifications of zoning. He stated that this "smacks" of spot zoning. He thought that it would make more sense to zone the entire parcel R-5 and ask for a variation on the lot size for those lots which will be a little short. Commissioner Harris asked if they plan to improve the trails. Mr. Estes replied that they are anticipating that they will be improved as class one type bicycle paths. They would use an asphalt blacktop. As yet, they have not determined the width. In response to-a question from Commissioner Harris, Mr. Estes stated that the green belt would be 40' . Page 5 Plan Commission January 5, 1977 Commissioner Harris stated that whether or not the bike trail goes through, he still thinks there has to be an access up through the corner into the school site. Mr. Estes stated that they have to know just how the school is going to plan their 23 acre site and how the extension of the road which is not on their property will take place. Where the trail comes through from the south will be effected by the plan of the school and that detail is not resolved at this time. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the developer is aware of the requirements of the Park District regarding what types of land they are interested in taking as parks regarding the requirement of buildability. Mr. Estes stated that they are familiar with the regulations although they have not examined it yet in detail. Commissioner Goldspiel suggested that they provide more access into the open area. Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the major north-south street would be a major collector.Mr. Estes replied that it wouldn' t be. One of the difficulties is the fact that there is a problem of proximity of major intersections on Busch Road with Route 83. The road that goes north on the adjoining property is a major collector street and they do not want two major collector streets to come out on Busch Road so close together so they are trying to keep trei2 north-south road as an internal local street. Commissioner Goldspiel suggested that the entrance into Busch Road be closed off and they join their street into the major collector. Mr. Estess stated that this would be too complicated. Commissioner Shields stated that he , too, thinks the park should be a more meaningful shape. He asked if the 2800 square feet the developer quoted as house size included the basement. Mr. Estes replied that this includes the garage. Commissioner Keister stated that he agrees with the other commissioners regarding the shape of the park and whatever can be worked out. Commissioner Keister asked if the front portion of all the lots on the cul-de-sac type streets is 60'. Mr. Estes replied that they are 60' at the building line. Commissioner Force stated that she, too, is concerned about the access to the school. This is a problem in the Village already. Commissioner Kandel stated that he agrees with the rest of the Commission regarding the park. It should be some kind of developable area rather than a long narrow strip. As it is, it would not lend itself to any- think the Park District could make beneficial use of. Mr. Bogart stated that as far as he is concerned, the variations are out. The developer will have to meet the zoning ordinance. Also, R-6 crowds too many people into a small area. He does not think they should split the zoning. They should stick with R-5. He also would like to see a larger park. He added that he would like to see the zoning classifications for future zoning in Lake County start to drop. Pap 6 Plan Commission January 5, 1977 Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he disagrees with the fact that there is not a place for a linear park. This may not be the place for it but he has seen examples of very linear parks with a stream running through the middle and a bike path along the side which with amenities are extremely pleasant. He would like to get away from the thought that every park has to be a baseball diamond or tennis court. There is a place for passive recreation. Mr. Helms asked if a survey of the natural properties of this land has been mapped yet. He added they should also know where worthwhile tree stands are. Mr. Estes stated that they have to take inventory of the trees on the site. They felt the linear park should be in a natural state. Their first thinking was to open up the area to the west as an active play area and make the other a more passive area and tie the two together. They would like to expand on this when they get into the project in more detail. Chairman Genrich asked what makes it a natural linear park area. Mr. Estes replied that it is basically because it follows the drainageway. Mr. Rapp stated that one of the requirements will be to submit a detailed topography map with 1' interval contours and indicate all the sizeable trees and areas that would be involved in the park site. Mr. Marienthal asked Mr. Estes if they are going to abide by the ordinances in regards to street widths and right-of-way dedication. Mr. Estes replied that they are assuming that on some of the smaller streets they will use the 50' right-of-way but if they do that they will provide extra depth in terms of front yard setback so the front of the building would be the same as though it were on a wider right-of-way. There will be adequate room for utilities. Mr. Marienthal asked if there would be sidewalks on both sides of the street on the main collector. Mr. Estes stated that they anticipate this. Where there are less then 12 units on a cul-de-sac , there will not be any sidewalk. Chairman Genrich expressed his concern over the fact that there is no north-south t1oroughfare through this development. The major north-south street in the Camelot development was substandard in width and will have more traffic then that width will warrant. He asked that the Staff look further into this. Mr. Marienthal asked if it would be possible to move the north-south street more to the east. Mr. Estes replied that they have moved it as far to the east as they can. Chairman Genrich summarized the discussion by making the following points: 1. The developer should meet:;with the Staff and (a) Look into the possibility of a land trade-off with Levitt. Page 7 Plan Commission January 5, 1977 (b) Meet with the Staff and Park District and go into detail with where the park areas are , etc. (c ) Review the right-of-way dedications and road network. He is primarily concerned with whether there should be a through north-south street. (d) Try to resolve at least a parkway access to the school for families living in i at u)per northwest portion. (e) Try to identify the particulars of the bike path concept with the Staff. (f) Identify a sidewalk plan and have it as an overlay at the next meeting. (g) Review retention requirements. 2. The developer should sit down with Mr. Larson and review the key parameters of a standardized annexation agreement. They should have an annexation agreement draft a week before the next meeting with the Plan Commission. 3. At the proper time a presentation to the Park District should be made. 4. The developer should consider the fact that at least two members of the Village Board of Trustees would much rather see this as completely R-5 and meet all the R-5 requirements. 5. Someone from the Staff and someone from the Appearance Commission should visit the site and see if there is any overall feel for areas that should be preserved in terms of trees, etc. 6. A topography map and tree inventory should be provided prior to the Public Hearing. Committee and Liaison Reports Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he attended the Board Meeting on Monday night. They were discussing the Zale Development and he found out that the Board was working with a different annexation agreement then what the Plan Commission has. It is dated December 13 and the one the Plan Commission approved is dated December 1. He felt that if there have been changes between the time a project comes before the Plan Commission and it goes to the Board, the Plan Commission should be notified. Mr. Marienthal stated that he didn' t think the Board knew it was different until they started going through it. There was a discussion regarding variances. Chairman Genrich stated that he would make sure the Board of Zoning Appeals receives the agendas. Page 8 Plan Commission January 5, 1977 Commissioner Goldspiel had a question concerning the Industrial Commission. Mr. Marienthal stated that he has asked for a complete status report regarding that commission. In response to a question from Commissioner Kandel, Mr. Marienthal stated that he feels the Plan Commission should take a look at the present Master Plan and review it within the next couple of months to see if any changes should be made. After further discussion in this regard, Chairman Genrich stated that it would be put on the agenda in the near future. Chairman Genrich appointed Commissioner Force as a liaison with the Park District and Commission Kandel as a liaison with the Board of Zoning Appeals. There was a discussion regarding the Plan Commission's concern with the temporary signs on Dundee Road. There was also a discussion regarding the park area adjacent to Grand Spaulding. A motion was made and seconded that the meeting adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 10:00 P.M. Respectfully submitted, APPROVED: nda Isonhart, Recording Secretary X1 ( Carl Genric'h, Chairman *These minutes were typed from a tape in the Plan Commission files.