1977-06-01 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Henderson/Koch
June 1, 1977
Chairman Carl Genrich called the meeting to order at 8:00 P.M. in the
Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr, Harris
Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Kandel
Mrs. Force
Commissioners Absent:. Mr. Shields
Also Present: Mr. A. T. Henderson, Developer
Mr. John P. Schraw, Architect
Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee
Mr. Bart Delaney, Engineering Aide
Mr. Tom Fennell, Director of Community Development
Mr. Iry Capitel, Prospective Member
Mr. Richard Star, Propsective Member
Chairman Genrich read the Notice of Public Hearing published in the
Buffalo Grove Herald on May 16,1977.
Mr. Henderson introduced himself and Mr. John Schraw, the architect who
will work on the proposed project. Chairman Genrich swore them in as
witnesses.
Chairman Genrich identified the property as being located north of
Lake-Cook Road, west of Route 83 and east of Weiland Road. He added
that the developer is requesting annexation with B-4 zoning.
Mr. Henderson stated that they have not changed the plan originally
presented to the Commission and marked Exhibit #677-1. They have had
several meetings with the Staff and he has consulted with Mr. Schraw
in connection with having the Plan Commission look more favorably upon
his proposal. As a result of the meetings he is requesting B-4 rather
than B-2.
Regarding the change from B-2 to B-4: Mr. Schraw stated that B-4 includes
the uses in B-2 but requires special review by the Board of Trustees.
With regard to the fear of this becoming a strip shopping center, if
there is such a usage . the Village has full control because one of the
articles in the annexation agreement is to capture esthetic control.
Mr. Schraw stated that another point of discussion was the possibility
that this property be annexed half business and half residential. He
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felt this would put Mr. Henderson under somewhat of a handicap.
Mr. Delaney stated that the only input from the Staff was with regard
to the Police Department comments. Chief Walsh had stated that there
was not enough entrance/exit drives onto Lake-Cook Road and that these
should be widened along with the exit onto Weiland and Route 83.
Engineering and Public Works reviews were not done due to a build up of
work load.
Commissioner Harris asked Mr. Henderson why he selected B-4 zoning. He
replied that this came as a result of meetings with the Staff, Village
Manager and Chairman Genrich in the hope that some halfway ground could
be met in connection with his request. He added that he hopes to construct
a business area that will be beneficial to the Village and himself. With
the major road going through the center of the Village, he feels the
complexion of the Village will change tremendously and this is the logical
use for this property.
Commissioner Harris questioned the addition of 3A on page 3 which
states that any use normally permitted under B-2 would be subject to
review and approval by the Board of Trustees. Mr. Delaney stated that
he talked with Mr. Raysa regarding this and he informed him that this
paragraph in the annexation agreement would be binding.
1 Commissioner Harris asked the developer if he was saying that he would
not build any B-2 uses. Mr. Henderson replied that he would not go so
far as to state that. Mr. Schraw added that the size of the property would
tend to eliminate any apprehension the Commission might have about B-2
uses.
1 Commissioner Goldspiel asked about the provision of detention/retention.
Mr. Henderson stated that they have not made any major plans as yet
regarding this but if it is necessary they would be in compliance with
the ordinance.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that there appeared to be four blind corners
trafficwise on the plan. They are the two southernmost corners of the
A building and the two southernmost corners of the B Building. Mr. Henderson
replied that the drives are about 20' wide and from a traffic flow stand-
point, they have a lot of work to do. He added that it might be necessary
to increase the size of the drives and decrease the parking spaces or
place the buildings in a different manner.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the Fire Department likes to have fire
lanes in the front of the buildings. Mr. Schraw stated that they have
fire lanes in the back of the buildings.
Commissioner Goldspiel informed the developer that there would have to
be a 12' buffer in the rear and Mr. Henderson replied that they could
provide this. Commissioner Goldspiel added that there is a requirement
for loading docks on buildings of this size and they must be 50' from
the property line.
Commissioner Goldspiel expressed his concern over whether there can be
j a viable plan for property this size which includes a buffer strip,
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retention/detention, etc. Mr. Henderson agreed that this could very
well be a problem. However, they have an excess of parking and they
could reduce the size of the buildings to create a more attractive and
usable center.
Commissioner Force asked about possible tenants for this proposed center.
Mr. Henderson stated that a savings and loan is very interested. He
mentioned several others and stated that most of those he has talked to
would like him to be annexed and get the zoning before they will commit
themselves.
Commissioner Force stated that she is also concerned about the traffic
flow. In particular she mentioned the entrance and exits off of Lake-Cook
Road. Mr. Schraw stated that at the time they did the sketch they were not
fully informed and there remains to be some work done on it.
Commissioner Force asked if the developer had given any consideration as
to what other options he has on this property other than B-4. Mr. Henderson
replied that he has. The Master Plan calls for half residential and half
commercial,_but he does not feel the property would be as viable half
residential. However, he does not want to close the door on residential.
He added that he has a lot of flexibility.
Commissioner Kandel asked which of the people he has talked to would he
consider wholesale. Mr. Henderson replied that there is one in particular
and this is Firestone. - ---
Commissioner Kandel stated that he could not support this type of shopping
area based on what is being planned for the Village Center.
Mr. Al Knuth, property owner in the Village Center area, stated that if
commercial is allowed to be developed across the street from the Village
Center. the Village will be lessening the chance of a Village Center
ever coming about. He thinks the Village Center is the first concern.
The Public Hearing adjourned at 8:45 P.M.
Respectfully;submitted,
Linda isonhart
Recording Secretary
APPROVED: -
Carl Genrich, Chairman
Plan Commission
Henderson/Koch P.H.
6/1/77
1
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Prudential/White Hen, Henderson/Koch,
Schwaben Center
June 1, 1977
Chairman Carl Genrich called the meeting to order at 11:05 P.M. in the
Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr. Harris
Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Kandel
Mrs. Force
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Shields
Also Present: Mr. Thomas Conrardy, Prudential/White Hen
Mr. A. T. Henderson, Developer
Mr. John P. Schraw, Architect, Henderson/Koch
Mr. Norman Rockel, Schwaben Center
Mr. Ed Braun, Schwaben Center
Mr. Horst Lichtenberger, Schwaben Center
Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee
Mr. Bart Delaney, Engineering Aide
Mr. Tom Fennell, Director of Community Development
Prudential/White Hen
Commissioner Kandel made a motion to recommend to the Board of Trustees
the approval of Prudential Realty's Resubdivision Final Plat of Survey (#407-8)
subject to the following changes and additions:
1. Interior angles being placed on all corners within the property.
2. Addition of a monument at southeast corner.
3. Subject to the Staff resolving the wording for handling the
public dedication.
4. Addition of signatures of owners and surveyor's seal.
Commissioner Harris seconded the motion. Upon voice vote the motion
carried. Commissioner Goldspiel abstained.
Henderson/Koch
Commissioner Harris asked Mr. Delaney to explain again what Mr. Raysa
said regarding 3A on page 3. Mr. Delaney stated that Mr. Raysa had
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said in an annexation agreement one can put just about anything. He
instructed Mr. Delaney to write a paragraph explaining what was desired
and when he reviews the annexation agreement he will work with the
wording.
Commissioner Harris asked Mr. Delaney to see if there is an annexation
fee for commercial. If there is, he thinks it should be in the annexation
agreement.
Other changes in the annexation agreement were as follows:
1. Page 5, #7, Commissioner Harris questioned whether there
was adequate water to serve the premises. The Engineering
Department will review this.
2. Page 6, (d) , delete "sanitary sewers, storm sewers."
3. Page 6, (e) , delete "MSD Sewer System."
4. Page 8, #13, change "fine percent (5%)" to "ten percent (10%)"
and "fifty percent (50%)" to "one hundred percent (100%)".
Commissioner Harris stated that he has two major objections to this plan.
He does not want to see competition for the Village Center and the Plan
Commission is taking action to modify the Master Plan to this area as
residential. He does not think this is a good place for wholesale houses.
They should be in an industrial area.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he is opposed to the plan because he
does not think the plan proposed would be workable in terms of the size
of the property, traffic pattern, etc. Also, he feels the Plan Commission
should support the Village Center.
Commissioner Force stated that she is concerned about the uses on this
site. Also, we have to safeguard the Town Center concept which a lot of
people have invested in.
Commissioner Kandel stated that he supports the Village Center and its
concept. The only way to support it is not to detract from what the
Village is trying to do there. He is opposed to this development.
Mr. Henderson stated that he feels the best use for this property should
be available to the owner or contract buyer. He does not feel this is
an illogical use. Regarding the Village Center concept, from the stand-
point of time, he feels the Village is asking them to carry an unfair
burden. He urged the Plan Commission to reconsider.
g e onsider,
Commissioner Harris made a motion that the Plan Commission recommend to
the Village Board of Trustees that the petition of Henderson/Koch be
denied. Commissioner Kandel seconded the motion and upon roll call vote
the motion carried unanimously.
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Schwaben Center
Commissioner Kandel asked what the proposed capacity of the clubhouse
is. Mr. Braun replied that it is about 400.
The following changes were made in the annexation agreement:
1. Page 3, #8, the annexation agreement states a 20' easement
and it is shown on the drawing as 19' . This should be
changed to conform to the annexation agreement.
2. Page 4, #11, delete "or the M.S.D. Sewer System."
3. Mr. Delaney is supposed to review the fees.
4. Page 5, #17, change 5% to 10% and 50% to 100%.
Commissioner Goldspiel questioned the fact that there was no mention in
the annexation agreement the annexation to the park and library districts.
Mr. Braun stated that the Schwaben Center would not be making use of
either of these districts and could not afford the extra tax they would
have to pay if they should annex to them.
Another change in the annexation agreement made by Commissioner Goldspiel was:
5. Page 7, #22, delete "revert" and insert "be rezoned by the
Village."
Mr, Louis Rose stated that he lives two doors away from Schwaben and would
like to be annexed with them. Commissioner Harris stated that he would
have to file a petition with the Village for annexation.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he cannot conceive of voting for this
annexation without annexation to the park and library districts. He also
does not think it is appropriate to make this commercial in the middle of
a residential area. He feels it would be a problem to the Village in
terms of crowd control, inter-neighbor problems, etc.
Commissioner Harris stated that he is very concerned about the hike path.
He also thinks the entire 18 acres should be annexed. He would have to
vote against it,
Commissioner Force questioned Chief Walsh's comments regarding the width
of the driveways. She asked how wide they are. Mr. Rockel stated they
are 20' and the Village requirement is 25' . He added that they would not
have any opposition to widening them. Commissioner Force stated that she
agrees with the other commissioners regarding the park and library districts.
Schwaben should be treated the same as any other commercial development.
Commissioner Kandel stated that he likes the idea of a sports facility in
the Village and a recreation building that the Village will need. However,
he does not like the idea that it is among a residential area. He also
would like them to come in with the entire 18 acres.
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6/1/77
Chairman Genrich stated that the zoning of this commercial does not
change the fact that it is primarily a social use. He feels they have
some legitimate points about the park and library districts and bike path.
Mr. Marienthal stated that if this stays in the county and continues to
function within the county and abuts Buffalo Grove, the Village has no
control over it. He thinks having the control is better. The club adds
another dimension to the Village that it does not have. He added that he
would like to see the entire 18 acres come in at one time. However, if
it can't because of fiscal restraints, so be it. Regarding the fees
for the library and park, he suggested that Mr. Rockel and Mr. Braun go
back to their Board and advise them of the Village's stance on this.
Commissioner Harris moved that the Plan Commission table the annexation
of the Schwaben Center and give the gentlemen an opportunity to go back
to their Board and present them with some of the things that were mentioned
by the Plan Commission tonight. Commissioner Kandel seconded the motion
and the roll call vote was:
Commissioner Harris yes Commissioner Kandel yes
Commissioner Goldspiel no Commissioner Force yes
Motion carried.
This will be rescheduled for June 15.
The following points were identified as problem areas:
1. Bike path.
2. B-2 zoning
3. Annexation of the entire 18 acres
4. Annexation to park and library districts
Adjournment
Commissioner Kandel moved to adjourn. Commissioner Force seconded the
motion. The meeting adjourned at 12:05 A.M.
Respectfully submitted,
da Isonhar
APPROVED:
1
Carl Genr ch, hairman
PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Schwaben Center
June 1, 1977
Chairman Carl Genrich called the meeting to order at 8:45 P.M. in the
Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr. Harris
Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Kandel
Mrs. Force
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Shields
Also Present: Mr. Norman Rockel, President of Schwaben Center
Mr. Engelbert Salle, Past President of Schwaben
Verein and Schwaben Athletic Club
Mr. Horst Lichtenberger, President of Schwaben
Athletic Club
Mr. Ed Braun, Schwaben Center
Mr. Gregg Repede,Athletic Director of Mt. Prospect
Park District
Mr. Roy Leonard, WGN Radio
Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee
Mr. Bart Delaney, Engineering Aide
Mr. Tom Fennell, Acting Director of Community Develop-
ment
Chairman Genrich read the Notice of Public Hearing published in the Buffalo
Grove Herald on May 16, 1977.
Mr. Rockel stated that they are requesting annexation and zoning of
B-2 for an 8 acre parcel located on Weiland Road two blocks north of
Lake-Cook Road and just west of Centex. He introduced Mr. Salle,
Mr. Lichtenberger, Mr. Braun, Mr, Repede and Mr. Leonard. Chairman Genrich
swore them and Mr. Rockel in as witnesses.
Mr. Rockel explained that the Schwaben Center is owned by two different
clubs in a joint venture. They are the Schwaben Athletic Club and
Schwaben Verein. The Athletic Club is 50 years old and Schwaben Verein
is 100 years old.
Mr, Salle stated that the word Schwaben comes from a particular area which
comes from Stuttgart. The area surrounding Stuttgart was the state of
Schwabia. The people from this area are Schwaben. The purpose of
Schwaben Verein at the time it was founded 100 years ago this year was
to carry on traditions from Germany. All net proceeds will support any
societies or organizations that need help. All officers for the past
100 years have worked without charge. Over the past 100 years they have
donated approximately S1,000,000 to charity.
Mr. Salle went on to state that in the past 8 years they have founded a
charity organization which consists of a president, 8 directors and a
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board of 10. All money coming in is distributed to charity. This is
ii
a not-for-profit organization.
Mr. Salle stated that they have joined with the Schwaben Athletic Club
for the purpose of further organization. They have decided that they
now would like to do something with the donations and build a home for
the society which they feel is entitled after 100 years of existence.
Mr. Braun stated that the Athletic Club was founded 50 years ago. It is
mainly for sports, soccer in particular. At the moment they have about
110 people playing soccer. Most of_ the teams workout at the Schwaben
Center. Two teams work out in Mt. Prospect. There is another one in
Wilmette. All league games are played at Schwaben Center. He added
that they have some players who are Olympic players.
Mr. Repede stated that about 3i years ago Mt. Prospect initiated a
soccer program. Mr. Braun helped them get their program started. He
added that Mt, Prospect would View it as a plus for the community if
they had an opportunity for something like this.
Mr. Leonard stated that he was present as a parent who has three sons
who play soccer for Schwaben. The people from Schwaben have great
expertise in the way they work with the youths and he feels it is a
marvelous thing the way the people from Schwaben donate all the time
that they do.
Dr. Kenneth Gill, Superintendent of School District 21, sent a letter
to the Board of Trustees which was presented to the Plan Commission
by Mr. Rockel. Commissioner Goldspiel read the letter in which Dr. Gill
stated that he feels the Schwaben Center would be a real asset to
Buffalo Grove.
Mr. Willie Necker who is a resident of the area stated that he is a former
soccer player and would hope the Plan Commission will look favorably on
Schwaben's request for annexation.
Mr. Rockel stated that the center's main reason for wanting to annex to
Buffalo Grove is for identification, It is one of the leading communities
in the area. Another reason is they have had many good results with
Buffalo Grove to this point. The Village has helped them in many functions.
Also, this is a centrally located area. They feel they can be an asset
to the Village.
Mr, Rockel showed the construction plans for the property. The
plan is marked Exhibit #617-6 in the Plan Commission files, On preliminary
plan he showed soccer fields A and B. Field B is a regulation size
field and .A is international regulation size.
Mr, Rockel stated they want to abandon the septic field and enlarge the
children's playing field and put in more bleachers,
shrubbery around the periphery. There will be a 12' buffer They and
to run
for 160 cars, In the retention area they have permission from Centex
to take the storm water and bring it along the 20' easement and discharge
it into the pond. This was worked on with the Engineering Department.
They would like to hook in with the Village sewer and water. The sanitary
line would be extended to the field house to eliminate the septic field.
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Mr. Rockel showed the clubhouse plan and stated the main reason for
constructing a clubhouse is for revenue. Also, they need a place for
their members to meet.
Mr. and Mrs. Vito Boezio, residents south of Schwaben, objected to the
annexation. They had several complaints with Schwaben regarding the
septic field, location of outside sanitary facilities and objects being
thrown over the fence into their yard.
Mr. Norman Wilewski, a resident on the west side of Weiland, voiced his
complaints regarding the 10 acres across Weiland Road which Schwaben uses
for a parking lot. He stated that there is a spot light that shines into
his window and there is a lot of noise. He added that there are times he
couldn't get out of his private road because of the traffic.
Mr. Schneider, caretaker at Schwaben, stated that three or four times a
year the light shines until 1 A.M. The permit from Lake County allows
this. He added that if they are incorporated they will go into the
sewer so the septic field will not be used.
Mrs. Wilewski asked why Schwaben wasn' t annexing the entire 18 acres.
Mr. Rockel stated that they have no plans at present for the 10 acres
on the west side of Weiland. Also, if they annex both they will have an
increase in taxes which they cannot affort at the present time.
Regarding an injunction which was mentioned by Mrs. Wilewski, Mr. Rockel
explained that in 1973 they elevated the 10 acres to level it off. They
received a court case on it. The complaint was that they were damming
up the natural flow of water. They went back to the normal elevation and
it was still dammed up in Wilewski's yard. They cannot do anything to the
10 acres until they submit a topo to the court. As a result, they have
left it alone.
Commissioner Harris stated that he has some concern regarding the 10 acres.
Schwaben is only providing parking for 160 cars. This is a small amount
of parking in relation to the amount of people at their events. If
they annex into the Village they will be under police protection from
Buffalo Grove. The Police Department would police their activities but
would have no jurisdiction in the parking lot across the road. He would
feel better if the entire 18 acres could be annexed into the Village.
Mr. Rockel stated that if the 10 acres were annexed, under the ordinance
it would have to be blacktopped. They do not want to do this because they
use it for training. Commissioner Harris suggested that perhaps something
could be worked out regarding use of this area for overflow parking. The
Village has a lot to offer Schwaben and they have a lot to offer the Village.
In response to a question from Commissioner Harris, Mr. Rockel stated that
the anticipated seating is approximately 1250.
Commissioner Harris questioned where the sanitation facilities were for
the spectators.
p store. Mr. Rockel replied that there are some in the field house.
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There was discussion regarding a bicycle path. Commissioner Harris
suggested putting the bicycle path on the 20' easement on the north side
of the property. Mr. Olson, a resident immediately to the north, was
opposed to this unless a fence was constructed between his property and
the bicycle path.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked what the effect was on the pond in Centex 1
that Schwaben would be using for storm water. Mr. Fennell stated that
it does not substantially effect the detention pond.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the center restricted membership or use
of their facilities on the basis of race, religion, national origin or sex.
Mr. Rockel replied that they have no restrictions.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if there would still be occasions when
portable sanitary facilities would be needed should Schwaben be annexed.
Mr. Rockel replied that this would not be necessary, Mr. Fennell and
Mr. Delaney stated the sanitary sewer can handle the additional load.
In response to Commissioner Goldspiel, Mr. Rockel stated that they have
considered adding lights but have not made any positive plans on this.
The lights are 35' . Mr. Lichtenberger added that these lights are
strictly for practice. They are not for night games.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he sees a number of severe detriments
which outweigh the proposed benefits. He does not like introducing
commercial zoning into a PUD area because there is no guarantee that it
will always be a sports field.
Commissioner Force asked if Schwaben had talked with the Park District
regarding interchanging of facilities. Mr. Braun replied that there have
not been any definite discussions on that. However, they have been used
before by the high school. He added that they did have a discussion
regarding running anything in the way of a green path or bicycle path
through to the pond and the Park District felt they did not want to have
anyone go there because of the small pond. They felt it was more of a
danger than an advantage.
Commissioner Force stated that she is concerned about the 10 acres and
thinks the entire 18 should be annexed. Mr. Braun stated that they cannot
use the other side as permanent parking. Eventually they would like to
make plans for that area and put in more fields or use the grass for the
kids to play and practice on. Only three times a year would it be used
for overflow parking. It would be useless for the rest of the year.
Commissioner Kandel asked the Staff if they had done anything about
getting a; environmental report or an audio-noise study done. Mr. Delaney
replied they had not. Mr. Fennell stated that there is a noise code in
the Village which would apply here should it be annexed. It applies to
an acceptable decibel rating at the lot line. He stated that he would
provide the Plan Commission with copies of this.
Commissioner Kandel asked if they had any plans for selling food outside.
Mr. Rockel replied they they do not. The food that is sold is in
plastic containers.
Plan Commission
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6/1/77
•
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In response to Commissioner Kandel, Mr. Rockel stated that they would
advertise mostly in local newspapers.
Commissioner Kandel asked about the fee they charge for admission.
Mr. Lichtenberger stated that they ask for a $2 donation at the gate.
Commissioner Kandel stated that he, too, feels strongly that all the
property should be annexed into the Village at the same time. It is
conceivable that the club will grow and need considerably more parking.
Chairman Genrich asked what the increase in activites has been over the
last 5 years. Mr. Rockel replied that there has not been much of an
increase. Chairman Genrich asked what kind of an increase would they
expect over the next 3 to 4 years should they be annexed. Mr. Rockel
stated that this would depend on the league. At present there are not
many games scheduled out here. Mr. Braun stated that as far as game
activities they do not see a drastic change. The only increase is the
use of the clubhouse. It will be open more often then it is now. When
the hall is being rented out there will be a steady flow.
Mr. William Cloud stated that he has been a resident of Buffalo Grove for
years. He first became associated with Schwaben 4 years ago when they
volunteered to help the Park District start a soccer program. The Park
District did not follow through with it. Buffalo Grove now has a wonderful
opportunity to control something that is not a spectator sport.He has
attended the soccer games and the noise is not that great. He strongly
suggests the Village take positive action regarding this because it will
add to the Village.
The Public Hearing closed at 10:55 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Linda Isonhart
Recording Secretary
APPROVED:
Carl Genrich, Chairman
Plan Commission
Schwaben Center P.H.
6/1/77