1977-10-26 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN CC!YISSICN
Taggert Property, The Commons
October 26, 1977
Chairman Carl Genrich called the meeting to order at 8:15 P.M. in the
Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr. Harris
Mr. Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
Mrs. Force
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Kandel
Mrs. Sheldon
Mr. Capitel
Also Present: Mr. Edward Holzrichter, Developer
Mr. Joseph Raccuglia, Architect
Mr. James Otis, Architect
Mr. Lou Shassian, Developer
Mr. Ronald Cope, Attorney
Mr. Robert Bogart, Trustee
Mr. William Kiddie, Park Board
Mr. Tom Fennell, Director of Community Development
and Planning
Mr. Bart Delaney, Planning Coordinator
Taggert Property
Mr. Raccuglia described the plan which had been distributed 4 4v
l$ 111111
N_ _ ft t MA_A':' 6- . There are two three-story buildings,
360' long with 34 condominiums in each building. They are similar to
the Oak Creek condominiums in design. The vista is 288' in the center
with many trees along the parkway. They intend to add to what is there
presently. The buildings will be brick with a 40' side yard. There is
35' from the lot line to the parking and 58' to the building. They
intend to have a median strip of planting and berming similar to Oak
Creek.
Ll Mr. Raccuglia also displayed a plan which contained two four-story
buildings (Exhibit #1026-2). This would have a 368' vista. Each building
would be 320' long and parking would be underground. There would be
parking outside for 60 cars in each building compared with 92 spaces for
each building in the three-story plan.
Mr. Fennell stated that the road into the single-family development across
Dundee Road would be about 150' to the west of the proposed entrance to
this development. It would be desirable to either line the two up or
make them further apart. He added that this plan is acceptable under the
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Zoning Ordinance and does begin to approach what is depicted on the
Master Plan.
Mr. Raccuglia stated that they could off-set the drive into the development
and line it up with the street across Dundee Road.
Commissioner Harris objected to the golf course being hidden behind this
development. He also objected to the fact that the owner is selling -
off parts of the course without regard to what is happening on Dundee
Road. He added that he feels the developer has done what he could with
a piece of property of this size and shape.
Mr. Raccuglia stated that the size of the parcel was beyond his control.
Mr. Holzrichter added that they are occupying about 1 acre of 5+ acres.
Commissioner Goldspiel preferred the four-story plan. He feels this is
the right use for this parcel because of the traffic situation on Dundee
Road. He feels the entrance should be lined up with the street across
from it but does not want to make more asphalt on the property by doing
this.
Commissioner Shields felt there was a lot of parking lot and very little
open space. He preferred the four-story plan because there is more open
space. He also does not like having the golf course hidden behind .the
development.
Commissioner Force stated that if the property is to be developed, this
is the proper use for it. She prefers the four-story over the three-story.
She is also bothered by the golf course in the back.
Mr. Holzrichter stated that the density in the four-story plan is five more
units in each building than in the three-story plan. The price range of
the four-story -would be in the 50's and 601s. In the three-story it would
be in the 400s and 500s. The difference in cost would be for the undergrOund
parking.
Mr. Kiddie stated that the developer has stated that they will be making
a cash donation. If they put in tennis courts this would be a subtraction
from the donation.
Chairman Genrich asked if the Commission wanted to put a tentative stamp
of approval on the four-story plan or advocate to the Board that we take
a strong position with the golf course owner to reshape this.
Commissioner Harris stated that even though this will not always be a
golf course, he thinks the Village should ask .the owner to hire a planner
to plan the entire 140 acres.
Commissioner Goldspiel felt the Plan Commission's attention should be
directed to the long-term planning of this area.
Considerable discussion followed regarding future plans for the entire
140 acres and what effect this should have on this development.
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Chairman Genrich suggested that if the owner will not prepare a plan, it
would behoove the Village to put together some sort of a plan and then go
to the owner with preliminary ideas about what could be done over a long-
term period.
Commissioner Shields suggested getting a map of the area showing this
parcel and what is adjacent to the golf course.
Commissioner Harris stated that he objects to the Village 'doing the planning.
He feels the owner should hire a planner and added that it is poor planning
to develop the-area- in bits and pieces. _
Regarding the vista, Chairman Genrich asked if it wasn' t the idea to come
down the street across from this development and see a vista. He thought
perhaps the buildings should be situated differently. Mr. Fennell thought
this issue should be addressed.
Chairman Genrich stated that this is a personal proposal but the'idea was
suggested to him. He^asked about the possibility of annexing the golf course
at the same time this property is annexed. His answer was that Mr. Taggert
would not have any objection if it didn't cost him any more money in taxes.
He summarized the meeting as follows:
1. Chairman Genrich asked the staff to give some strong
consideration and check with the Village Attorney as
to what the implication would be taxwise if the Village
were to require annexation of the entire parcel to
Buffalo Grove when they annex this piece.
2. The Flan Commission is essentially saying they would
like to go ahead with the four-story plan.
3. He would like the architect, Mr. Holzrichter and Mr. Fennell
to sit down and discuss in some detail how the open space
area could be put directly across from the street to the
south. See if there is a design adaptation possible.
4. When the developer gets the schematic things worked out on
the street, he should review it with Mr. Harris regarding
the plantings.
5. The Plan Commission is requesting the Village Manager to
ask the Staff to develop a tentative possible long-range
plan for the golf course. It would be a point for further
discussion with Mr. Taggert.
6. Chairman Genrich would like this plan to be submitted to
the other public agencies so we will have cor._;rents by the
next workshop.
7. The developer was asked to meet with the Park District
as early as possible and convey their willingness regarding
the donation in writing. A copy of this should be sent to
the Village Manager.
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8. The developer should meet with School Districts 21 and 214.
A letter regarding school donations should also be sent to
them with a copy to the Village Manager.
9. A copy of the annexation agreerrient should be rrov-7.(ftC,. onE.
?ee )rior to the next wLrkoilop.
10. The developer should meet with the Staff regarding the annexation
agreement.
11. The Staff was asked to touch base with the school districts
about whether there are busing problems or sidewalk problems
to be resolved.
12. The architect was asked to provide an overall schematic
scheme of surrounding land uses, curb cuts, and the center
of Dundee Road as it relates to this plan.
13. The Staff should determine the exact zoning requested and
review the new plan in detail in terms of zoning conditions.
14. The Staff should address itself to the problem of sidewalks
and identify the general detention/retention area.
Another workshop will be scheduled on this development when these things
have been done.
zonin& Ordinance Changes
Chairman Genrich stated he had received the proposed zoning Ordinance
changes in rear lot requirements on corner lots and also the proposal
on the ordinance which would permit a change in the accessory building
problem. He asked Commissioner Harris to look these over and call him
to schedule .a Public Hearing.
The Commons (Friedman)
Chairman ()enrich stated that the Park District has agreed essentially
to accept and maintain after dedication sites A and C (large open area
in the southwest corner and small open area in southeast corner) but
has strong feelings that they are not interested in site B. If that is
the case, the Village is presented with the problem of how site B will
be maintained. A possible way would be through a homeowners' association.
He asked for the developer's feeling on this.
Mr. Shassian stated that they are not anxious to utilize a homeowners'
association. There is a problem as to how strong an association would
be. They feel it should be the responsibility of a governmental body,
preferably the Park District. If not them, they would like to see the
Village accept it because as an open space community, it should be in
a public jurisdiction. He added that it should be either entirely
maintained by a public body or else a',homeowners' association, not both.
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Mr. Cope stated that as a practical matter, it is hard to maintain a
control with a homeowners' association. The only enforcement mechanism
is through the private homeowners. This is not a condominium situation
where you can impose a lien on another person's property. He added that
they are not eliminating the possibility of sitting down with the Village
Attorney and working something out.
Mr. Kiddie stated that the Park District has stated they are interested
in sites A and C. Previously, site B was a miniscule center area. Now
it is elongated. He thinks the whole approach is a long step away from
Resolution 72-35. The Park District has a perfect right to state it's
not a viable piece of recreational land but a continuation of backyards.
Mr. Shassian reviewed how the plan has changed from the one originally
presented. Chairman Genrich stated that the revised plan is the one
the Plan Commission agreed on at the last meeting. Who accepts and who
maintains the parks is ancillary to the basic deci$ion of the plan.
Commissioner Harris agreed that this is ancillary to the plan but from
a practical standpoint that is public access and he thinks there will
be a security problem with the houses. Many, if not all, of these
people will construct fences after several years.
In response to Commissioner Harris, Mr. Shassian stated that there are
122 total units (including the townhouses). He also stated that they will
be placing covenants and restrictions on the deeds.
Commissioner Harris questioned the figure given in the Park District letter
of October 18 as the income from this development. ffe came up with.a
higher figure than they did.
Mr. Otis stated that they attempted •to open up the townhouse circulation
and access to the development and this dictated some of theshapes. in
the most recent plan.
Mr. Shassian stated that if they can get a public body to accept these
lands as public open space, they are prepared to develop a bike path
system from the south through to the north connecting Farrington Lane
to Buffalo Grove Road. They are also connecting it through the park
area and over to the footbridge thereby connecting it to Willow Stream
Park.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that it is crucial that neither the Village 1
nor -the Park District be stuck with maintaining a lot of disparate parcels. 1
The real thing the Plan Commission should be doing is considering financial
impacts as well as other impacts. If this would be a real deficit producing
operation for the Park District, it does not seem to him either the Park
District or the Village should have to pay an extensive cost. Or, if the
Park District is making money on it, it does not seem right that the Village
should be maintaining it. He added that he also bn. a es zero lot line
single-family is the `eTong use for this parcel. He would like to see some-
thi4g more dense.
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Commissioner Goldspiel felt there were also two important planning problems
to be considered-. One would be the Joi in the road and thec,other is
the corner lot problems. He was also concerned about the detention.
Commissioner Shields stated that he prefers the last plan submitted by
the developer.
Commissioner Force stated that she would have difficulty accepting the
latest plan. Even if the Park District would maintain it she feels that
the people who would purchase properties abutting parcel B wil], not see
it in the way the developer envisions it and they will start to fence it
off. The whole purpose would be defeated. She added that to have the
open space is very desirable but it should be where more people would
see it. If in the back yards there will be less accessibility than in
the front.
Regarding exposing the open area to people entering the development,
Mr. Otis stated that at both entrances they are exposed immediately to
the common areas. Even if there are fences, they are opening up a vista.
Regarding variations they are asking for, Mr. Otis stated that in terms
of individual lot sizes, eliminating the common areas, they are averaging
a minimum of 6,000 square feet and in R-4 the requirement is 8,750. The
front yard requirement in R-4 is `O" and they average 5' . They conform to
R-4 on side yards except they are suggesting a possibility of zero lot
line on one side. They vary on the rear yard but are talking about a
301 rear yard average because they have some non-regular size lots.
The R-4 requirement is 401 . Ninety percent of their lots back up to
open space so they do not feel this is a handicap. In the multi-family
they conform to R-9.
Mr. Fennell stated that their findings are bacially the same. R-6 would
seem to fit this type of development better. The minimum lot size is
6600 square feet and the developer indicates a minimum of 60. The
zero lot line and rear yard would be a variation. The front yard would
conform.
Chairman Genrich asked if the Plan Commission would be comfortable with
identifying these variations on the plan and once the plan is adopted the
plan is the control and these would be the only exceptions considered.
Commissioner Harris stated that he doesn't think it can be treated as an
R-4, R-5 or R-6. He would like to leave it as an R-9 PUD and adopt it
the way it is without any notations.
Commissioner Goldspiel thought the comparison should be to R-5 rather
than R-6. He did not think the Plan Commission was dealing with R-6
anymore.
In response to Commissioner Harris, Mr. Shassian stated that the 15' on
the side yards was a minimum.
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Regarding the plantings along Route 83, Mr. Shassian stated he will do
the planting. This area is deeded to the homeowners. As for maintenance
and the formation of a homeowners' association for this purpose, there is
the same problem with enforcing restrictions and covenants as mentioned
before.
Commissioner Harris stated that he is concerned about the "S" curve.
Mr. Fennell reported that Mr. McCoy felt the "Si" curve could be handled.
The Police Department had a negative reaction to it. The Staff does not
have a problem with it from a planning standpoint.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked what the detention situation is. Mr. Otis
stated that Mr. Hooper, the engineer, has "talked with Mr. McCoy and
documents were submitted tonight which show the flood plain and where
it crosses the property. The detention situation is worked out and there
is no problem. Mr. Otis had asked for a report on Mr. Hooper's meeting
with Mr. McCoy but did not receive it and Mr. Hooper is out of the country
presently.
Commissioner Force asked how wide the bike paths will be. Mr. Shassian
replied that the easement will be according to the: minimum restriction
of 15'. Mr. Fennell said that he would like to have 20' and Mr. Otis
stated that this could be done.
Mr. Fennell stated that if there is a viable alternative -to the "a" durve
he does not think it would hurt the atmosphere of the development to take
a look at straightening it out. He added that the issue of Farrington
Drive should also be addressed in terms of where it should go and what
it should do.
In response to Commissioner Harris, Mr. Shassian stated that they would
grade and seed the areas before dedicating them to the Village.
Mr. Cope recommended that the Plan Commission recommend that the land be
taken and maintained by a public body and if this is not viable„ they
are prepared to form a homeswners' association to provide the maintenance.
Commissioner Harris stated that the detention/retention basin should be
shown on the plan as required by the Ordinati:ce.- -Mr. Otis stated that
they will get this done immediately. Chairman Genrich stated that once
the detention is shown on the plan it should be delivered to the Park
Board by November 3 for their meeting of November 10.
Chairman Genrich stated he would prefer to see this rezoned R-9-PUD-
P.D.k-7 Special Use Zoning Category. The Plan Commission agreed with
this.
Chairman Genrich stated that the Plan Commission is not interested in
any major revisions of the plan but asked if the developer could work
with the "S" curve problem and have that print to the Plan Commission by
November 3.
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Indian Trails Library District
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the Indian Trails Library District
Board is meeting tonight to discuss what to do in the face of the turning
down of the referendum by the voters. He asked that the outcome of their
meeting tonight be discussed by the Plan Commission at their next meeting.
Adjournment
The motion was made and seconded that the meeting adjourn. The -meeting
adjourned at 11:25 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
L da Isonhart
Recording Secretary
APPROVED:
Carl Genrich, Chairman
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