1979-03-07 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Recreational Vehicle Ordinance
MARCH 7, 1979
Chairman Genrich called the meeting to order at 7:35 PM in the Municipal Building,
50 Raupp Boulevard.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Genrich
Mr. Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
Mrs. Sheldon
Mr. Button
Mr. Davis
Mr. Kelly
Mr. Harris
Also Present: John Marienthal, Trustee
Bart Delaney, Planning Coordinator
Jim Truesdell, Staff Planner
Jordan Shifrin, Prospective Commissioner
Gary Glover, Prospective Commissioner
Commissioner Goldspiel moved that Commissioner Harris' seniority on the Commission
be restored. The motion was seconded and unanimously approved by voice vote.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Shields moved to approve the minutes of the February 28, 1979
Residential Setback Ordinance Public Hearing, subject to corrections. Commissioner
Goldspiel seconded the motion, which was unanimously approved by voice vote.
Commissioners Sheldon and Button abstained.
Commissioner Shields moved to approve the minutes of the February 28, 1979
Recreational Vehicle Ordinance Public Hearing, subject to corrections. Commissioner
Kelly seconded the motion, which was unanimously approved by voice vote.
Commissioners Sheldon and Button abstained.
Commissioner Goldspiel moved to approve the minutes of the February 28, 1979
Special Regular Meeting, subject to corrections. Commissioner Kelly seconded
the motion. Corrections are as follows:
Page 2; #3 : The second sentence should read as follows: "The proposed
ordinance as it now stands imposes no setback regulations
on anything built prior to 1977•"
Page 3; 8th The last word in the second line should be "commercial"
paragraph: rather than "recreational".
Upon voice vote, the motion was unanimously approved, with Commissioners Sheldon
and Button abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Button reported that the Board had approved the Manning Savings and
Loan plan at the March 5, 1979 meeting.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
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Mr. Button also reported that the Board had directed that a meeting take place
between the Plan Commission and the Board on March 26, 1979, regarding the change
in the Comprehensive Plan.
Regarding the Buffalo Grove Road Extension, the Village has been informed by
Lake County that they will not use their funds to build new roads, but rather
will use the funds to improve existing roads. The Village is appealing this
decision, and Messrs. Balling, Fabish, and Boysen are attending a meeting
tonight regarding the Buffalo Grove Road Extension.
RECREATIONAL VEHICLE ORDINANCE
Chairman Genrich read a letter which he had written to Police Chief Walsh on
March 5, 1979. The letter read as follows:
"Dear Harr Asyou probablyare aware, the Village Board instructed
Y� g
the Plan Commission to hold a Public Hearing, and to make a recom-
mendation to them on a recreational vehicle control ordinance. We
are in the process of determining whether we want to recommend the
ordinance as prepared, recommend a different ordinance, or recommend
that no action be taken.
In conjunction with this, I would like to know what instructions you
have given your men, in the past, about the recreational vehicles
parked in driveways, which are in violation of the current zoning
ordinance.
Also, the Baumanns on Regent had a full-blown house trailer parked
on the street, and were at least partially living in the trailer,
for over one week in February. What enforcement measures did the
Police Department take to have this trailer moved? Given the fact
that it is against the law to park a car on the street overnight
in our Village, I am certain that it would have to be illegal to
park a house trailer.
We will be considering this ordinance, in follow up of our recent
Public Hearing, again this Wednesday night, March 7. If at all
possible, I would like to have your answer in hand prior to that
meeting. Your letter could either be delivered to me, or handed
to Bart Delaney."
Commissioner Goldspiel then read Chief Walsh's reply to Chairman Genrich, which is
as follows:
"Regarding the enforcement of that section of the zoning ordinance
that refers to the parking of other vehicles other than 'passenger
cars' in residential neighborhoods, I personally gave no instruc-
tion to the Police Department.
When this became a problem to spine, approximately May, 1978,
direction was given to the police department by the Village Board,
through me. These instructions were:
Enforcement would be taken only against flagrant violators, and
more specifically against 'semis ' , and that on a specific com-
plaint basis. Those that were to be acted upon were identified
for us through the Office of the Village Manager. A moratorium
was placed on all other enforcement, pending the recommendation
of the Village Board's R.V. Committee.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
- 3 -
This was in fact at least partially in recognition of the fact that:
A. The enforcement of zonin laws is not primarily a police depart-
ment responsibility (nor a prime responsibility) - we were to
assist the Department of Building and Zoning, and
B. The draft ordinance as it presently exists is poorly drafted,
perhaps discriminatory and at best difficult to enforce, as
! further evidenced by the fact that it is under study and
revision by the Planning Commission.
I have discussed the draft ordinance under consideration with my
staff, and it is our opinion that the ordinance proposed is for all
practical purposes unenforcable, by the police department, or any
other department which might be charged with such responsibility.
Staff has previously stated that the most effective ordinance from
an enforcement standpoint is one which is uniformed (i.e. no parking
of R.V. 's within the required front yard). This approach was re-
viewed by the Village Board and was considered to be too rigid for
the Village."
Mr. Truesdell then read his memo to the Plan Commission dated March 6, 1979, re-
garding the Deerfield R.V. Ordinance, which is as follows:
"The proposed Buffalo Grove R.V. Ordinance is similar to an ordinance
adopted two years ago in the Village of Deerfield. I had a dis-
cussion with Mr. Case, the Deerfield Zoning Enforcement Office,
with regards to the effectiveness of their ordinance. For the most
part their ordinance has been effective and has been accepted by
the community. I questioned him specifically regarding the three
points in our ordinance to which the R.V. owners objected. They are:
1 . Bulk requirement: Deerfield dropped the vehicle size limita-
tions in their ordinance. It merely states that the vehicle
must not be parked over any public R.O.W. Mr. Case said that
such bulk requirements have been contested in court in the
past and found illegal.
2. Limitation to the number of vehicles allowed: Although the
Deerfield ordinance only allows one vehicle parked on a lot,
Mr. Case felt that this is very difficult to enforce. Deer-
field only takes action on these situations on a complaint
basis.
3. Grandfather Clause: Mr. Case felt that no grandfather clause
should be inserted, because it would be extremely difficult
to enforce.
I hope this information will help you in your final decision on the
` proposed ordinance."
�./ Mr. Donald L. Hardt, Chairman of the Appearance Commission, then read a letter
which he had sent to the Plan Commission dated March 7, 1979, which read as
follows:
"Gentlemen: On behalf of the Appearance Commission I would like you
to be aware of our position on the proposed Recreational Vehicle
Ordinance. Please be advised that the Appearance Commission is
totally opposed to the proposed R.V. Ordinance presently under
consideration.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
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Our commission concurs with the statements made in Barbara Sheldon's
memo to the Plan Commission on February 21 , 1979. Further, it is
our opinion that changes made in the original R.V. Committee's re-
commendation that were requested by the R.V. owners and adopted by
the Village Board will have a deleterious effect on the Village as
a whole.
The commission questions the size limitations and one foot set-back
from the sidewalk as suitable criteria for the restrictive covenants
in the proposed ordinance. There may be an application when a R.V.
in excess of 28' parked on an 80' side drive and properly screened
will not have a detrimental effect on surrounding property. On the
other hand a 10' high R.V. parked within one foot of the sidewalk
will create a barrier that is in direct contradiction to the set-
back requirements set forth in our present Residential Zoning Ordinances.
The Appearance Commission strongly recommends that consideration be
given to redrafting the proposed ordinance using establishes residen-
tial set-back requirements as the criteria used in restricting the size
of R.V. 's for off street parking. We further request that effective
screening be considered as a requirement when the larger R.V. 's are
allowed to park in residential areas.
We trust that our opinions will be helpful in formulating your
recommendations to the Village Board."
Chairman Genrich stated that we appear to have four options:
1. Approve the ordinance essentially as it is, with some minor changes.
2. Go back to the November 30 draft.
3. Go to special zoning for R.V. 's.
4. Cover the "grandfathers" and use the current ordinance.
Commissioner Sheldon stated that, after reviewing the minutes and various memos,
she would like to propose a few ideas. She said that they do not want to cause
problems for people currently owning R.V. 's.
1 . She noticed that one concern is the "grandfather clause" and she would like
to propose that the "grandfather clause" follow the owner.
2. She would like to propose that there be a restriction on the number of vehicles.
3. She feels that the issue regarding permits is open to discussion.
4. Referring to paragraph 4 of Mr.Hardt's letter which states that consideration
be given to redrafting the proposed ordinance using established residential
setback requirements as the criteria used in restricting the size of R.V. 's
for off street parking, Mrs. Sheldon feels that if an R.V. can be parked in
the side or rear yard, that would be the best location for it.
5. Mrs. Sheldon said that the length of what is to be allowed should be discussed,
and that perhaps the length of what is allowed on the highway should be the
criteria.
Mr. Alan Foss, 160 Weidner, said that the largest trailer manufactured is 34' , and
that 28'-30' is considered a large size trailer.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
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Some points noted from each of the R.V. Ordinances reviewed from other Villages
include:
Libertyville: Sets standards for propane gas tanks
Does not permit parking for more than 72 hours
Niles: Limits length to 26'
Limits weight
Vehicle cannot be within 3' of lot line
Vehicle cannot be within the building setback line
Rolling Meadows: Limits length to 24' including hitch
Vehicle must be behind building line
Arlington Heights: Must be screening and landscaping around vehicle
Only cars may be parked in front of the setback line
No junk cars are allowed
Trucks must be kept inside the garage
Commissioner Goldspiel likes the Arlington Heights ordinance, and feels that it
is the best type of approach. He thinks we need to maintain the building setback
lines. Mr. Goldspiel does not think it is a good idea to go back to the November 30
draft, but feels that we should build on the Arlington Heights ordinance.
Commissioner Shields feels the vehicles should be parked in the rear or side yard
with appropriate screening.
Commissioner Harris stated that the Appearance Commission addressed the R.V. as
being treated like a building or a structure to be parked within the yards as
established in the zoning ordinance. This would make it nearly impossible for
anyone to park their recreational vehicle within the Village. Mr. Harris said
that he likes the Arlington Heights ordinance, which allows the parking of vehicles
within the rear yards, and some side yards, and they have covered the question of
what is "unsightly" by stating that there must be some kind of screening, which
satisfies everyone's objections.
Commissioner Harris also stated that, if the ordinance is going to allow people
to park any size vehicle on the property, but not in the front yards, then the
"grandfather clause" is not necessary.
Commissioner Shields said that we might be excluding a great many vehicles because
of the small side yards, and difficulty in getting to the back, and not enough
room in the front.
Commissioner Harris said that the Arlington Heights ordinance states that variations
will be allowed where it can be proven that it is difficult to get to the rear yard,
an example being large trees. A fence would not be allowed a variation, because
a fence can be taken down.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that one of the ordinances reviewed stated that
it was permissible to park a pop-top camper in the side yard with the top down,
but not with the top up.
Commissioner Harris said that the Arlington Heights ordinance states that you can
park camper trailers, travel trailers, small boats, and motorized homes, with
certain length restrictions, in the rear yard; in the side yards, however, you
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
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can only park a camper trailer in a collapsed position not more than 4' in height,
or a boat trailer without the boat mounted on it. In certain residential zones,
they will allow things to be parked inside the garage. Mr. Harris' opinion is that
if a vehicle will fit inside the garage, it should be put there as long as it is
not an unsafe type of vehicle.
Commissioner Harris said that Mr. Raysa has said that weight could not be considered
in controlling this situation, as there have been court decisions regarding weight,
which is why it was never put into any of the drafts.
Chairman Genrich asked if he was correct in understanding that Commissioner Harris
does not want R.V. 's parked in front of the setback lines. Mr. Harris said that
is correct. Commissioner Goldspiel agrees that R.V. 's should not be allowed to
be parked in front of the setback line.
Commissioner Goldspiel said there is a question as to whether these are vehicles
or buildings. He feels, at the very least, one that is parked there for more
than 72 hours should not be parked forward of the building line; he feels it should
not be parked in the side 3ard if it infringes on the minimum side yard.
Commissioner Shields stated that he feels exactly the same as Mr. Harris and Mr.
Goldspiel; however, he is trying to reach some sort of a compromise that will be
reasonably acceptable to more people. He feels that we're back to "ground zero"
if we say the R.V. 's can't be parked in front of the setback line.
Commissioner Sheldon feels that, if it is at all possible, the R.V. should be put
in the rear or side yard. If it is physically impossible to do that, then the
only other alternative is to put the R.V. in the driveway, with the appropriate
safety measures taken.
Commissioner Sheldon stated that if there is a "grandfather clause", those vehicles
that are already here would be allowed, but none would be allowed in the future.
Commissioner Shields stated that, in the future, vehicles wouldn't be allowed in
front of the setback line, even with a hardship.
Commissioner Sheldon stated that we would not be imposing a hardship on the current
R.V. owners, but we would not be allowing any more R.V. 's to come into the Village
which would have to be parked in the front yard.
Commissioner Davis stated that if the "grandfather clause" moves with the owner,
that person may move to a new house where the vehicle would not fit in the rear
or side yard, so he would still be able to park it in front, under the "grandfather
clause". Commissioner Sheldon said that could possibly happen.
Commissioner Goldspiel said that he cannot go along with the "grandfather clause"
following the person. He said that he can envision some kind of a variance pro-
cedure rather than a "grandfather clause". He said that, with a variance, the
neighbors have a chance to be heard if the vehicle is not acceptable to them.
Commissioner Davis said that he doesn't think that can be done to someone who
already owns an R.V.
Commissioner Harris said that current owners would be taken care of with a non-
conforming use, but if they purchase a new vehicle, it must be within the setbacks
of the property. They would then be aware that there is an ordinance that states
that you cannot have an R.V. unless you can fit it in your yard.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
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Commissioner Davis brought up the question of what would happen if the R.V. is in
an accident; Commissioner Harris said that it must then be replaced with a size
that will fit within the setback. Mr. Harris said that it is the same as when
a structure is an existing non-conforming use; if it burns down, it must be re-
built within the setbacks.
Commissioner Davis said that he personally does not like R.V. 's over a certain
size parked anywhere except in rear yards, or side yards if properly screened.
He thinks R.V. owners now in the Village could be taken care of by issuing
permits, not necessarily a "grandfather clause". Mr. Davis feels that, between
L./ not allowing any new R.V. 's to come into the Village, and attrition, the problem
will eventually be taken care of.
Commissioner Button said that he concurs with Commissioner Harris that R.V. 's
should be parked within the setback or in the rear. Mr. Button questioned
how we would define "grandfather." Do we issue a permit to the owner of the
vehicle, or do we issue a permit to a single vehicle; He said we could also
put a time limit on the permit (5 or 10 years, for instance) .
Chairman Genrich said that, as he understands it, everyone is in favor of a non-
conforming use provision, but a more restrictive one than the one on which the
Public Hearing was held.
Commissioner Kelly said that he agrees that the setback should be the limitation
in the front. As far as the sideyard, he'd have problems allowing vehicles there
unless they were within the setback line and screened. Mr. Kelly said that he
can imagine someone having a side view, and looking right into a recreational
vehicle, and not liking it no matter how attractive that particular vehicle may be.
Regarding the "grandfather clause", Mr. Kelly at this time feels that he is in
favor of the "grandfather clause" going with the present vehicle, and expiring
when that vehicle is no longer owned by its present owner. Otherwise, people
could continue to upgrade and get larger vehicles, and still be protected under
the "grandfather clause".
Commissioner Davis feels that the Commission should take tonight's conclusions
and contact the Village Attorney to find out his opinions. Mr. Davis feels that
if we adopt the Arlington Heights ordinance, we will have covered everything.
Commissioner Button stated that perhaps it could be stated that, if a vehicle
happened to be destroyed within a certain period of time, it could be replaced;
after that period of time, it must conform to the new laws.
Commissioner Kelly basically feels that there should be non-conforming use, but
that it should be tightened up in the future.
Chairman Genrich asked if the Commission would rather proceed with the Arlington
Heights ordinance, or with the November 30 draft.
Commissioner Sheldon said that she would like some input from the R.V. owners as
to whether or not they could "live with" the Arlington Heights draft.
Mr. Foss stated that the R.V. owners are aware that the Arlington Heights ordinance
does not permit parking in the front yard, and that is not a tolerable situation
to the R. V. owners.
Commissioner Davis stated that he would like the staff to get a clarification from
the Secretary of State's office as to what qualifies a vehicle to have an R.V. plate.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
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i
Chairman Genrich asked if everyone would agree to take the ordinance on which the
Public Hearing was held, and incorporate the Arlington Heights ordinance into that.
Everyone on the Commission concurred.
Chairman Genrich also stated that we need a draft before we can get the opinion
of the Village Attorney. Mr. Genrich then asked if the Commission wanted to
continue to work as a committee of the whole, or get a sub-committee. Commissioners
Harris, Sheldon, Button, Davis, Shields and Kelly would prefer to have a sub-
committee. Commissioner Goldspiel does not agree with having a sub-committee.
Mr. Earl Smithern, 1 Longwood Court, stated that after all these months of work,
we seem to be no further along than we were at the beginning. He said there are
only 3 points that the R.V. owners disagree with - the "grandfather clause", the
size, and the number of vehicles.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the most important point to him is whether or
not a recommendation allows or disallows parking in the front or side yard. He
does not want to see parking in the front or side yards, with the exception of
those R.V. 's which fit within the setback on the side. He also does not think
that R.V. parking should automatically be allowed; a neighbor should have a chance
to comment if he objects to the vehicle.
Mr. Marienthal stated that the Board directed the Plan Commission to hold a Public
Hearing and put together an ordinance which would be enforceable to all residents,
for all types of vehicles. Mr. Marienthal said that most of the other ordinances
which the Plan Commission reviewed are not being enforced.
Chairman Genrich appointed a committee to work on a recommendation. The members
of the Committee are: Commissioner Sheldon, Chairman; Commissioners Goldspiel,
Davis, and Harris, a, try k -Fess-o. .--r Hewn tive+„
The committee will refine the draft on which the Public Hearing was held. Some
points to be covered are:
1. The draft that the committee will work with would cover non-conforming uses,
and there will be Village legal opinion before there is another meeting of
the entire Commission.
2. Clarify the number of vehicles to be allowed.
3. Outline the permit procedure as a control, and refer to zoning ordinance,
building setback requirements, screening standards and other rules.
4. Review the definition of commercial vehicles, semis, and vans as well as the
broad range of recreational vehicles and derelict cars; and give some considera-
tion to the length; review the point about gas container standards; and
address temporary parking and uses.
5.
The committee should address itself to how the ordinance can be enforced
and where the responsibility would lie. One of the things to be reviewed
would be a zoning inspector function.
6. Review in particular the Arlington Heights ordinance.
7. Whether or not variances or exceptions would be allowed, and if so, state
what the ground rules would be.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
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8. The draft ordinance discusses parking in multi-family areas, and that section
should be reviewed.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that, as he understands it, the consensus of the
Plan Commission is that ultimately vehicles should not be allowed to be parked
in the front and side yards if they infringe on the required setbacks; existing
vehicles aside, the setback line should be the governing factor. Mr. Goldspiel
asked if anyone disagreed with that interpretation, and no one did.
Chairman Genrich stated that the committee is requested to have its proposals
by March 28, 1979.
Mr. Metcalf, an R.V. owner, said that Commissioner Goldspiel talked about the
consensus of the entire group, and Mr. Metcalf would like the group polled to
be sure that it is, in fact, the opinion of the entire group.
Commissioner Goldspiel moved that the Commission be polled, and Commissioner
Button seconded the motion. The Commission would be polled on whether or not
the committee, in drafting an ordinance for those portions not relating to existing
vehicles, should go on the basis that the ordinance would not allow the vehicles
to infringe on the required front and side setbacks. The vote was as follows:
Shields, Goldspiel, Button, Kelly - Yes
Sheldon, Davis, Harris - Abstain
The vote was 4 "Yes", and 3 "Abstain".
OFFICIAL ZONING MAP
Chairman Genrich stated that the Official Zoning Map must be approved each year
in March, and Mr. Genrich asked Commissioners Harris and Button to review the
map, and bring their suggestions to the Commission.
WI LLIAMSBURG-ON-THE-LAKE/WYNNi1JAT,F
Mr. Marienthal said that there was a prescribed number of homes to be built on
the North side of the creek, but a number was not prescribed in regard to the
land South of the creek.
There are two alternatives in terms of the drainage:
1. Work out the drainage with the MSD
2. Put the drainage down by the golf course.
Williamsburg/Wynnedale will be on the agenda on March 21, 1979.
FUTURE AGENDA
Chairman Genrich stated that he would like to have a workshop meeting on
March 14, 1979.
COMMISSION APPOINTMENTS
Chairman Genrich stated that he was resigning from the Plan Commission because
he has accepted the Chairmanship of the Town Center Committee.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979
- 10 -
Commissioner Davis moved that, based on the resignation of Chairman Genrich,
Commissioner Shields be appointed Chairman of the Commission, Commissioner Sheldon
be appointed Vice Chairman, and Commissioner Button be appointed Secretary, to
serve until after the April 17, 1979 Village Elections; and that Mr. Jordan
Shifrin, 65 Wakefield Lane, and Mr. Gary Glover, 8 Amherst Court, be appointed to
the Plan Commission to serve until April 30, 1980. Commissioner Harris seconded
the motion.
After discussion, Commissioners voted as follows:
Harris, Shields, Sheldon, Button, Davis, Kelly - Yes
Goldspiel - No*
The motion carried 6 to 1 in favor.
*Commissioner Goldspiel stated that his preference would be to leave the Chairman's
position unfilled, with the Vice Chairman presiding, until after April 17, 1979.
ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner Goldspiel made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Commissioner Button.
Upon voice vote, the motion carried unanimously, and the meeting was adjourned
at 10:00 PM.
Respectfully submitted,
Jarfet Sirabian
Recording Secretary
APPROVED:
Carl Genrich, Chairman
Li
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
March 7, 1979