1983-07-06 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Cedar View
July 6, 1983
Commissioner Goldspiel called the Public Hearing to order at 7:44 P.M. in
the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois
Commissioners Present: Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Davis
Mrs. Reid
Mrs. Kaszubowski
Mr. Krug
Mr. Goldberg
Mr. Musfeldt
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Shields
Mrs. Sheldon
Also Present: Mr. D. Haller, Cedar View Developer
Mr. J. Nelson, Cedar View Land Planner
Mr. J. DiClementi, Cedar View Landscape Architect
Mr. J. Koenen, Cedar View Engineer
Mr. D. Laske Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. and Mrs. D. Adams, Arlington Heights Residents
Mr. J. Barger, Associate Superintendent District 21
Mr. W. Warnack, Village of Arlington Heights Lawyer
Ms. K. Gooth, Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. J. Strahammer, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. S. Cutler, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. P. Cross, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. B. Work, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. M. Sax, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. D. Spaner, Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. Grattis, Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. Hyman, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. R. Cohn, Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. R. Skelton, Village Attorney, Buffalo Grove
Mr. S. Stone, Buffalo Grove Village Trustee
Mr. D. DeLance, Buffalo Grove Park Director
Mr. J. Doyle, Village Buffalo Grove Assistant Village Manager
Mr. R. Kuenkler, Village Engineer
In the absence of a chairman or vice chairman, Commissioner Davis moved with
Commissioner Reid seconding, that Commissioner Goldspiel be appointed Chairman
Pro Tem. The vote was unanimously favorable.
- 2 -
Chairman Goldspiel read the :mtification of the Public Hearing as published
in the Hearld on June 21, 1983. He informed the audience of the format the
meeting would take and swore in Messrs Haller, Nelson, DeClementi and Koenen.
Mr. Haller briefly reviewed his plan noting its location and density which is
9.1 units per acre. He stated the product is a multiplex unit that looks
like a long single family house consisting of four and eight unit buildings.
Mr. Nelson reviewed the land plan and noted the areas that surround the site.
It is proposed to be annexed and zoned as R-9. They are requesting considera-
tion and approval of their preliminary site plan. He also showed a rendering
of the proposed product, which is a flat over flat type unit similar to many
manor homes that have been built in the area. The difference is each indivi-
dual unit has access from the garage as well as direct entrance from the out-
side. There are no internal components in the buildings. There are four
entrances in the center of the buildings and two entrances on the side.
They have tried to reduce the scale of the structures. The property is 14. 5
acres. The primary access is from Dundee Road. Be explained the property is
restricted by access. It is about a quarter mile in length and four hundred
ninety-five feet (495) deep in a north/south direction. There are non-
residential uses on the north side of the site. The east boundary abuts an
R-5 Cook County single family area. The south boundary and west boundary are
the village limits of Arlington Heights. The southern boundary has the
Northgate Subdivision and the western boundary line is Frenchman's Cove PUD
with a multi-family use. Immediately adjacent to this site on the west is a
low area that is to be deeded to the Buffalo Grove Park District from
Arlington Heights. Currently there is only one access from Dundee Road.
There is no other permanent access to the property. They have made every
effort to get Page Road opened to the development but have been unsuccessful
in their negotiations with Arlington Heights.
They are providing a fire lane at the southwest corner of the Kingswood United
Methodist Church property and adjacent to the Arlington Heights/Buffalo Grove
fire station. The plan conforms to the Buffalo Grove Comprehensive Plan and
the intergovernmental agreement between Arlington Heights and Buffalo Grove.
The density is below what is required. The plan has the same amenities as
a townhome development. They are requesting two variances for a sidewalk
on one side of the dedicated street and a reduction of the right-of-way
from sixty feet to fifty-four feet. They will provide a supplementary
sidewalk which is a green belt link. They have provided a sidewalk system
along the extreme southwestern cul-de-sac for access to Riley school.
The detention will be a proposed wet pond. The site drains from west to east
and the pond will be located at the east end. It will be maintained by the
condominium association. They have two green islands in the cul-de-sacs.
There are one hundred thirty-two (132) units. The building cover is twenty-
six percent of the land and there is a total of sixty-five percent open space.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
July 6, 1983
- 3 -
Mr. DeClementi showed a landscape plan and briefly reviewed it. There will
be a dense hedge separating the bank and church from the site. They requested
the detention be wet because of its aesthetic appeal. The south property line
will have a berm that will be five feet in some areas. They would like
permission to group trees rather than plant them every fifty feet as required.
The landscaping to the north for the office piece is the same as previously
approved. This in addition to a tree line is sufficient landscaping for
that area. The turf will be fifty percent seed and fifty percent sod. The
landscaping plan is of a preliminary nature. They have a list of materials
on the plan that they will choose from.
Mr. Haller stated the village engineer has agreed the area is sufficient to
handle the detention pond. The sanitary and water systems have been approved
by staff. They are trying to bring an attractive product into the market.
They feel fourty to fifty percent of the units will be occupied by families
and the rest would be young professionals. They contemplate the list prices
would be in the high sixties through mid eighties and average in the mid
seventies.
Mr. Barger stated he was concerned with access for the children of this site
to Riley school and this question had been answered. The District had not
requested a street, simply access so that the children could walk to school.
He asked that there be some access for the first residents with children going
to Riley School as the permanent sidewalk may not be in at that time.
Mr. Haller felt he could do this.
Mr. DeLance briefly reviewed his letter to Mr. Truesdell dated June 20, 1983.
He requested that the Park District receive their cash donation at the onset
of the project.
Mr. Doyle referred to Mr. Truesdell's memo of July 1, 1983 to the Plan Commi-
ssion titled Cedar View Manor Homes Public Hearing - Preliminary Plan Review
and stated this plan conforms to the Village ordinances and the recommendations
of the Plan Commission. The only unresolved question was the wet or dry
detention.
Mr. Kuenkler stated wet or dry the detention would work the same. He felt
it was going to be a maintenance problem for the condominium association if
it were wet.
In response to Commissioner Goldberg, Mr. Doyle stated the density is deter-
mined by the gross area before the right-of-way's have been dedicated. Under
the current zoning ordinance the density for this project is 9.1.
in response to Commissioner Davis, Mr. Kuenkler stated the aeration of this
and all village ponds would be no later than one year after it is started.
This will have a 3 to 1 slope.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
July 6, 1983
- 4 -
In response to Commissioner Davis, Mr. Haller stated there would be a low fence
around the pond to prevent small children from falling in. Older children who
can climb fences could not be kept out.
In response to Commissioner Davis, Mr. Koenen stated the pond would be eight
feet deep to maintain fish. If there were to be a pond the size would be
very similar to one of the ponds at Villa Verde. At a hundred year storm
it will be filled to the top but not overflowing. There would be a storm
level over the normal level of an additional five feet.
Chairman Goldspiel questioned flooding and the site. Mr. Kuenkler stated
the development of this project will not cause additional flooding in Dun Lo
Highlands. It will tend to reduce the flooding. There is no village storm
system in that area. There is very definite drainage coming down to Dun Lo
Highlands. Nothing has ever been done along Three States Boulevard to alleviate
this. The only Village storm system would be on Golfview other than Dundee
Road. The natural flow patters is from west to east.
Chairman Goldspiel felt if Frenchman's Cove Park was improved the residents
of this site should be encouraged to use it by providing access to it.
Mr. Haller felt they could incorporate that into the plan.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the Village has been careful to provide for the
problem of headlights shining into units by skillful use of landscaping.
He would appreciate some thought be given to this. He noted the tree require-
ments were not stenciled in on the Golfview right-of-way.
In response to Commissioner Reid, Mr. Haller stated until the back portion of
the bank property is done there would be temporary emergency access through
the Kingswood United Methodist Church lot.
Mr. Warnack, lawyer for Arlington Heights Village was representing the Mayor
and Village Trustees. They had passed a resolution in April, 1983 stating
they were opposed to this plan. They felt this plan does not conform to the
intergovernmental agreement adopted in 1976. Their main objection is that the
development is not townhomes. They felt this is an eight flat apartment
building. Towuhomes are adjacent single family units with first and second
story;: living quarters and possibly basements. Be stated that Mr Haller
is aware of the agreement that has been enforce for many years. Mr.Maxnack
felt to do a good quality townbome development the developer would have to
put in more expensive units and use higher quality materials.
Commissioner Davis stated they received minutes of a Buffalo Grove Village
Board meeting of March 17, 1956 at which the boundary agreement was discussed.
The trustee's concluded it was not binding. Also according to advise from
Buffalo Grove's attorney, the supreme court has ruled that municipalities
have no right to zone property outside of its territory. The Village felt this
agreement was a statement of intent but not binding. They believe the document
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
July 6, 1983
- 5 -
is not enforcable.
Mr. Nelson noted they have planned for a lower density product than what
appears on the agreement. What ever classification you give a product the
market determines the price. The market or type of people will determine
who purchases a unit. They are proposing a building type. They are trying
to make it aesthetically pleasing, comply with general planning principles,
and the ordinances of Buffalo Grove. He felt that if the rear views of townhome
and multiplex units were put up for review very few of the audience could tell
the difference. They could build a much cheeper townhome unit that is not
aesthetically pleasing with a greater density on this site. The definition
of townhomes has been changed for many years. He felt a definition for town-
homes should have been in this intergovernmental agreement. This plan has
all the amenities of a townhome development. He felt the question was one of
whether the product has a negative impact on the area or not.
Mr. Skelton stated that it is their opinion that the agreement is not binding
on the Village.
Mr. Haller stated this project provides a one story elevation for the elderly.
They make up a big segment of the market.
Ms. Gooth has concern about access from Page Road. Chairman Goldapiel
briefly reviewed the preivcus testimony on this issue.
Mr. Laske reviewed some of the background of the site. In response to one
of his questions Mr. DeClementi stated the shade trees would have a 3" to
4" diameter, intermediate trees, evergreens 5' to 7' tall and the spreading
evergreens would be 3' to 4' tall. The type of material to be used in specific
locations will be determined at the time of planting.
Mr. Nelson stated the refuse will be stored in the garage.
Mr. Haller stated he plans to start building this year and complete the pro-
ject in three years.
Ms. Strachammer was concerned with the water problem in her area. Chairman
Goidspiel briefly reviewed the previous testimony regarding that area. Be
stated the water flow would be less over a longer period of time.
Ms. Cutler felt the traffic would be coming into Northgate from this develop-
ment and compound their problem. Chairman Goldspiel suggested that their
comprehensive plan be reviewed and stated part of this problem is because
access from Arlington Heights has been cut off to this project.
Ms. Cross felt this product was not saleable as people were looking for single
family or townhomes and suggested Arlington Heights would open up their streets
if single family were built here.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
July 6, 1983
- 6 -
Ms. Work was concerned about the children this project would generate.
Mr. Haller stated there would be very few from his past experience with this
type of product.
In response to Ms. Sax, Mr. Haller stated at this point he could not deter-
mine how many units would have one, two or three bedrooms.
In response to Ms. Sax, Mr. Doyle stated Three States Boulevard right-of-way
opening up would require the joint effort of Arlington Heights, Buffalo
Grove and the county.
Ms. Spanner was assured by Mr. Kuenkler that there would be no access to
Dun Lo Highlands from this project as there was a permanent barrier to
prevent it.
In response to Mr. Grattis, Chairman Goldspiel stated the Commission does not
review the financial strengths of prospective builders. Performance bonds
are required to insure that the proper improvements are made.
Mr. DeLance, in response to Mr. Grattis, stated the Park District requested
the developer donate the cash contribution in lieu of land and Mr. Haller has
agreed to do up to $12,500.00 of improvements in Frenchman's Cove Park.
Mr. Wideman stated his concern that the Commission was considering this plan
over a previous plan he preferred.
Mr. Hyman was concerned about the flooding, the number of bedrooms per unit
and would like to see a rear view of the buildings. Mr. Nelson stated
the bedroom issue is one where they are given the flexibility to build what
the market dictates. They have shown a drawing of the largest building type
tonight and with in that they will arrange the units. They are not required,
at this point, to submit floor plans.
Commissioner Goldberg felt that one of the requirements for the project should
be that at the Village Board meeting renderings be submitted showing the rear
of the buildings.
Ms. Cohn stated that in 1978 Mr. Haller showed the Northgate Civic Association
a plan with single family homes buffering Northgate but this plan did not pass
the Commission.
Ms. Adams stated the property is lower than the adjacent single family homes.
`./ The buffer of five feet will only bring the land up to the level of the single
family homes and no more. Mr. DeClementi replied they would like to bring
the buffer up to six feet.
In response to Ms. Adams, Mr. Haller stated the landscaping would probably be
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
July 6, 1983
- 7 -
between $1,000.00 and $2,000.00 per unit. He could not give a definite
answer at this time.
Ms. Adams, speaking as a trustee for the Northgate Civic Association, noted
that at a previous meeting with the association, Mr. Haller submitted a
plan and stated that if the association did not like it he would walk from
the project. The plan was rejected but Mr. Haller still pursued his develop-
ment. They have worked with him for the last five years to come up with a
mutually agreeable project.
Chairman Goldspiel stated that it is not unusual for a developer to have had
several plans before they come before the Plan Comeission. He appreciated
Ms. Adams input.
Mr. Adams felt that Arlington Heights and Buffalo Grove were neighbors.
After this plan is developed and the developer is gone they will still be
neighbors. He requested the Commission not force a plan on them they did
not like.
Chairman Goldspiel closed the public hearing at 9:56 P.M.
Respectfullysubmitted,
--Iathleen Comer
Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Patrick Shields
Chairman
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
July 6, 1983
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Cedar View
July 6, 1983
Commissioner Goldspiel called the Regular Meeting to order at 10:04 P.M.
in the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners Present: Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Davis
Mrs. Reid
Mrs. Kaszubowski
Mr. Krug
Mr. Goldberg
Mr. Musfeldt
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Shields
Mrs. Sheldon
Also Present: Mr. D. Haller, Cedar View Developer
Mr. J. Nelson, Cedar View Land Planner
Mr. J. DiClementi, Cedar View Landscape Architect
Mr. J. Koenen, Cedar View Engineer
Mr. D. Iaske, Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. and Mrs. D. Adams, Arlington Heights Residents
Mr. Jr. Barger, Associate Superintendent District 21
Mr. W. Warnack, Arlington Heights Village Attorney
Ms. K. Gooth, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. S. Cutler, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. P. Cross, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. R. Work, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. N. Sax, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. D. Spaner, Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. Grattis, Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. Hyman, Arlington Heights Resident
Ms. R. Cohn, Arlington Heights Resident
Mr. R. Skelton, Village Attorney, Buffalo Grove
Mr. S. Stone, Buffalo Grove Village Trustee
Mr. D. Delance, Buffalo Grove Park Director
Mr. J. Doyle, Assistant Village Manager
Mr. B. Ketiinkler, Village Engineer
In the absence of a chairman or vice chairman, Commissioner Davis moved with
Commissioner Reid seconding, that Commissioner Goldspiel be appointed Chairman
Pro Tem. The vote was unanimously favorable.
- 2
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Reid, seconded by Commissioner Davis to approve the
June 15, 1983 Public Hearing minutes on the Buffalo Grove Commerce Center
Unit 2-B Rezoning. The vote was unanimously favorable with Commissioner
Goldberg abstaining.
Moved by Commissioner Kaszubowski, seconded by Commissioner Reid to approve
the June 15, 1983 Public Hearing minutes on the Northwood Grove Unit 2
Agreement Extension. The vote was unanimously favorable with Commissioner
Goldberg abstaining.
Moved by Comissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Kaszubowski to table the
minutes of June 15, 1983 Regular Meeting until the next Plan Commission
meeting. The vote was unanimously favorable with Commissioner Goldberg
abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Reid attended the June 27, 1983 Village Board meeting at which
the Northwood Grove Unit 2 Agreement extension was approved and extended
for another two years. It was not vacated.
Chairman Goldspiel reported on the joint meeting between representatives of
the Transportation Commission and the Plan Commission. They are looking for
a way of developing a corridor plan for Dundee Road and the Soo Line Railroad.
Staff is reviewing master plans from surrounding adjacent communities and will
submit their input for review by the joint committee.
CEDAR VIEW MANOR HOMES
Commissioner Goldberg felt the real key to the wet cr dry detention was the
input of the village engineer. He felt if the flooding of this sites neigh-
bors could be helped it should be done.
Mr. Kuenkler stated wet or dry would have the same effect for the residents
to the east. The volume would be the same. It would not be better or worse.
He thought that the residents of Plaza Verde were spending a great deal on
upkeep of their pond.
Commissioner Goldberg noted it is very costly to keep up the pond at Cambridge-
on-the-Lake.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
July 6, 1983
- 3 -
Mr. Haller stated everyone he talked to felt wet detention would be aestheti-
cally pleasing and that was why he was considering it.
In response to Commissioner Kaszubowski, Mr. Kuenkler replied Chatham Manor:
has one wet and one dry detention area.
Chairman Goldspiel's questions was answered by Mr. Haller who replied that
they have not compared the detention requirements of the site between
the landscape planner and the village engineer as yet.
In response to Chairman Goldspiel, Mr. Koenen stated that during a one hundred
year storm the water would be twenty-five feet from the buildings.
The Commissioner agreed they had no objection to the wet detention provided
that the village engineer approved it.
Mr. Haller felt it might not be acceptable to the engineer. They are re-
questing this subject to engineering and prefer it wet.
Mr. Krug objected to the pond because it is a nuisance to children, a garbage
collector and a breeding ground for mosquitoes.
Chairman Goldspiel agreed with Mr. Krug.
Mr. Doyle stated that Mr. Truesdell's memo to the Plan Commission of July 1st,
titled Cedar View Manor Hanes Public Hearing - Preliminary Plan Review there
have been no changes since that submittal to the Commission. The Village of
Arlington Heights has not deeded over the Frenchman's Cove Park land as of
this date.
In response to Chairman Goldspiel, Commissioner Reid stated that Mr. Schwartz's
letter to Mr. Haller dated June 21, 1983 stated the temporary access will be
granted.
Mr. Doyle felt that by the wording of this letter they are giving an open end
agreement. This could be addressed through the language of the annexation
agreement under special provisions.
In response to Commissioner Goldberg, the Commission concurred the question
of snow removal was settled when staff previously stated they did not want
anyone taking care of that but the Village.
Moved by Commissioner Reid, seconded by Commissioner Krug that the Plan
Commission recommend to the Village Board approval of Mr. Hailer's plan
for annexation and R-9 zoning with special use of the PUD development,
Preliminary Plan dated June 14, 1983 subject to:
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
July 6, 1983
- 4 -
1 - Temporary access for fire and emergency vehicles through Kingswood
United Methodist Church parking lot.
2 - Sidewalk access to Frenchman's Cove Park.
3 - Massing of foliage where lights from the street might shine into units.
4 - Resolution of wet or dry issue on detention.
5 - All proper exhibits including complete rear and side elevations be
available at the Village Board meeting.
Discussion:
Commissioner Davis did not like the cul-de-sacs. He has reviewed the
boundary agreement since the start of the meeting as he had not previously
had a copy, and feels it is binding and cannot vote for this plan. He felt
the Commission should take that into consideration.
Commissioner Krug stated the only key word that binds the Village is "townhome".
He felt is has many names and now they are shaped differently. It is not
defined in the intergovernmental agreement. He felt this is still a single
family attached dwelling and a townhouse.
Commissioner Goldberg felt the purpose of the Commission is to concern itself
with the planning and annexation. The attorney is paid for his opinion and
he states it is satisfactory to continue with this project. He is not concer-
ned with the boundary agreement. From a legal point of view he is not concerned
about acting on this.
Commissioner Kaszubowski is not concerned with the boundary agreement. She
felt this is a question for the Village Board to decide. She voted against
the plan that contained the single family homes because it was a bad plan.
She was not particularly happy with this plan. She was not sure she was
ready to vote on this plan after hearing all the testimony and would prefer
time to review the material before making her decision.
Chairman Goldspiel stated the Commission was not required to vote on this
plan tonight.
Commissioner Reid noted access was one of her main concerns. She reviewed
the testimony regarding opening up Three States Boulevard. She does not
�./ know what more can be done to this plan to make it workable.
Commissioner Goldberg stated regarding the drop off, according to the topography,
there is only a two foot drop between the corner of Mr. Laske'a property and
this site. What happened when his home was built could be another matter.
Everything on this site drains to the east.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
duly 6, 1983
- 5 -
In response to Commissioner Musfeldt, Mr. DeClementi stated the berm will make
the land level with the single family homes. The intent is to screen.
If they cannot get up that high, they will try to achieve it with natural
material. They will get more than a satisfactory screen. They are working
within a three to one slope.
In response to Commissioner Goldberg, Mr. Kuenkler stated all of the Village
berms are three to one and are still movable.
The Commission was polled whether to table the vote on Cedar View or vote
at this meeting. No indicating tabling the plan. Yes indicating to proceed
with the vote.
AYES: Commissioners Davis, Reid, Goldberg, Musfeldt
NAYES: Commissioners Kaszubowski, Krug
The poll was favorable 4 - 2.
Commissioner Goldberg stated in deference to Commissioner Kaszubowski
he would be happy to table the vote to another evening and asked why she
wanted to delay. He felt this project has been before the Commission for
some time.
Commissioner Kaszubowski restated her view that she could not vote for personal
reasons. The material was sufficient.
Commissioner Goldberg amended Point 4 of the motion to read "The wet de-
tention meets the engineering requirements and Village codes. "
Chairman Goldspiel noted that the certified mail receipts for notification
of the residents living within 250 feet of the site had been received by
the Village.
AYES: Commissioners Reid, Goldberg, Goldspiel
NAYES: Commissioner Davis - because of the boundary agreement
Commissioner Krug - because of the exceptions for the right-of-way,
sidewalks and the long cul-de-sacs.
ABSTAIN: Commissioners Kaszubowski, Musfeldt
ABSENT: Commissioners Shields, Sheldon
The vote was favorable 3-2-2 and the motion passed.
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Goldberg to adjourn
the meeting. The vote was unanimously favorable and Chairman Goldspiel
adjourned the meeting at 11:00 P.M.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
July 6, 1983
- 6 -
Respectfully submitted,
Ka hleen Comer
Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
fAe6760„, 67a,beof‘")
Patrick Shields
Chairman
1
`.i
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
July 6, 1983