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1981-03-18 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION Grove Terrace Condominiums March18, 1981 Chairman Shields called the Public Hearing to order in the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove at 7:40 P.M. Commissioners Present: Mr. Shields Mr Goldspiel Mrs. Sheldon Mr. Button Mr. Davis Mr. Shifrin - arrived 7:50 P.M. Mr. Glover Mrs. Reid Mrs. Kaszubowski Commissioners Absent: None Also Present: Mr. J. Weiss, Developer, Grove Terrace Condominiums Mr. D. LeNoble, Architect, Grove Terrace Condominiums Mr. G. Anderson, Engineer, Grove Terrace Condominiums Mr. J. Metsger, Resident, Wheeling Ms. N. Lambert, Resident, Wheeling Ms. J. Donabaur, Resident, Wheeling Ms. Sockorcin, Resident, Wheeling Mr. Hein, Resident, Wheeling Mr. J. MB.rienthal, Trustee, Buffalo Grove Mr. D. Kuentler, Village Engineer, Buffalo Grove Mr. J. Truesdell, Village Planner, Buffalo Grove Chairman Shields read the notice of the Public Hearing as published and instructed the audience as to how the meeting would be structured. Chairman Shields then swore in MessS. Weiss, LeNoble, and Anderson. Mr. LeNoble then presented his plan. He stated that they are seeking an amendment to annexation agreement and a PUD approved approximately two years ago which called for two fifty-one unit buildings. Since that time marketing conditions and engineering costs have caused them to reevaluate their plan. The new plan consists of three buildings each containing fourty- two units for a total of one hundred twenty-six units. There will be fourty-two one bedroom units and eighty-four two bedroom units. It will have twenty-two dwelling units per acre. The original R 9 did have as many as twenty-four dwelling units to the acre. The reason for the larger side yards on the east end was an attempt to provide a greater distance between buildings and adjacent single family homes. Another reason is that the site detention - 2 facility would be in that general location. Regarding parking, on the original proposal there was a total of two spaces per unit. On the current proposal there will be 1. 5 cars within the building and .6 cars outside. The ordinance requires 215 spaces. They are providing 26!. spaces. They are about fifty over what is required. Some inside parking will be tandem parking. Regarding the floor plan the units will run from nine hundred thirty square feet to a little over one thousand square feet for one bedroom units and from one thousand two hundred ninety square feet to one thousand seven hundred fourty square feet for the two bedroom units. All units will have individual heating and laundry areas. They were asked by staff to make provision for a walkway from the drive to the rear fireway between all the buildings. They are also required to put in an eight foot bike path and provide a space for the proposed bus shelter. It will be located generally at the center of the project. Mr. Anderson discussed the detention. He stated that the detention chamber is dry. That it will be not used more than two or three times per year. The site drains from west to east. Commissioner Goldspiel - How far are you extending the water main from the west? II Mr. Anderson - A little bit west of Striker' Bowling going establishment oin g almost two thousand feet. Commissioner Goldspiel - Is there provision for the remainder of the golf course in that main you are extending? Mr. Anderson - Domestic needs can be handled with what is there. We are going to provide the vehicle to the site and the municipality has to provide the pumping capacity. Unless you know what is going to be built on the golf course you cannot plan for it. In answer to a question from Commissioner Goldspiel, Mr. Truesdell replied tit-the issue of the fire flow and the pipe was discussed at length at the Village Board. Our engineers have worked closely with Mr. Anderson to develop a system that would benefit the property along Dundee Road and relieve some of the inadequatecies that are there now. Commissioner Goldspiel - Is there adequate planning on the water to take care of subsequent development? Mr. Kuenkler - There is no question that we have done all we can do. Commissioner Reid - In your report you mentioned that the storm system can be connected to the existing 30" sewer on Dundee Road. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing March 18, 1981 - 3 - Mr. Anderson - We have had previous approval to connect to the storm sewer. Commissioner Reid - In looping your water main you do not loop Building C? Mr. Anderson - The loop is only around Building B. It does not propose a problem in any way. Commissioner Sheldon - How long is water going to stand in the detention? How long will it take before it is dry? Mr. Anderson - This system drains to the center. When the outflow will not accept the water, it backs into the reservoir. The maximum will be five feet. It will probably stay there not to exceed twenty-four hours and dis- charge slowly. Commissioner Sheldon - There would be some berming on the east side, the slope is five to one, are you going to have a berm going up and a sudden drop? Mr. Anderson - That is subject to landscaping and architecture detailing. That can be worked out. Mr. LeNoble - The highest part of the berm would be five feet. Commissioner Sheldon - Has your donation discussion with the Park District been resolved? Mr. Weiss - Whatever your current ordinance is in effect controls it. We • will abide by the disposition of the Village Board. Ms. Nancy Lambert, 122 Berkshire, Wheeling asked if there would be a fence around the detention basin. Mr. LeNoble stated there would not be a fence. Ms. Lambert - Can there be a fence put around the detention? Chairman Shields - If that was a retention area there it would be handled differently. Mr. Anderson - When we control the basin itself there will not be standing water. We are going to reshape it so that it will store and drain properly. In response to a question from Commissioner Shifrin, Mr. Anderson explained the difference between detention and retention. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing March 18, 1981 - 4 - Mr. Jack Metsger, 1+6 Holly Court, Wheeling stated that you have to take into consideration that there is now going to be buildings on the land and the water will not be able to soak in. Ms. Judy Donabaur, 110 Holly Court, Wheeling asked what kind of lighting was going to be in the parking lot. Mr. LeNoble stated it will be a type of fixture that will be a down light. The exact fixture has not been decided yet. Ms. Sockorchin, 110 Holly Court, Wheeling asked what the distance between Building C and the retention pond was. Mr. LeNoble stated that from the • Wheeling side of the pond to their lot line is 30 feet, the pond at the parameter of the top is about 70 feet and from the building to our adjacent pond is 1.0 feet for a total of 11+0 feet. Mr. Hein, 138 Berkshire, Wheeling stated that there was water coming off of the golf course itself. Mr. Marienthal - There is nothing we can to do control that because that is unincorporated property at this time. We have to work within the normal framework to take care of the flow of the water at the subject site. We cannot make compensation for property which is not contained in this site. Mr. Anderson - If water is draining from the golf course it is going to be collected in our basin. The golf course is undeveloped and this is a normal amount of water that is flowing from that site. Commissioner Goldspiel - Have you studied the water coming over the property line? Mr. Anderson - We have been asked to place some underdrains along the north property line. The basin is not designed to reflect this entire area which • we are developing. We think the underdrains have certain merit to them. • We have not discussed the underdrains with our client yet regarding cost. We are looking at about S5,000 to 67,000 for a drainage system along that area. Commissioner Goldspiel - If the one hundred year storm comes and the detention area is filled what would happen to the water that would come to the north of the property? L/ Mr. Anderson - It would probably flow over the top and go over the south area right onto the pavement area itself. Commissioner Davis - As it now stands will there be any greater amount of Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing March 18, 1981 - 5 - water to the homeowners in the existing area or will there be less water? Mr. Anderson - There will be less. It should have a positive effect on the Hollyridge area. Mr. Truesdell - If there is a one hundred year storm the resulting overflow would not be a result of this development. It would be a result of the natural flow that comes from the golf course. Chairman Shields - As the basin is filling with water it is also draining the water. Mr. Hein - When you have one hundred year storms there it is like a river coming down that golf course. Anderson - Ifthere is considerable bypass that is somethingwe canwork Mr. ok YP with when we get in the final stages. Commissioner Goldspiel - Is the water that is flowing now ending up in the State system at sometime? Mr. Anderson - Yes if the water is draining to the State system now the State will allow you to collect it in their system providing you do not allow more than a three year amount into the system. I think that we can address that and get together with Mr. Kuenkler on it. Commissioner Sheldon - What is the clearance as you go into the building from the driveway into the underground garages? Mr. LeNoble - It is probably going to be a seven foot door. Commissioner Glover moved adjournment of the Public Hearing. Commissioner Kaszubowski seconded the motion. Chairman Shields adjourned the Public Hearing at 9:1+0 P.M. Respectfully submitted, ZYZ Kathleen Comer, Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: Patrick Shields, Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing March 18, 1981 REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION Grove Terrace Condominiums Town Center March 18, 1981 Chairman Shields called the Regular Meeting to order in the Municipal Build- ing, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove at 10:00 P.M. Commissioners Present: Mr. Shields Mr. Goldspiel Mrs. Sheldon Mr. Button Mr. Davis Mr. Shifrin Mr. Glover Mrs. Reid Mrs. Kaszubowski Commissioners Absent: None Also Present: Mr. J. Weiss, Developer, Grove Terrace Condominiums Mr. D. LeNoble, Architect, Grove Terrace Condominiums Mr. G. Anderson, Engineer, Grove Terrace Condominiums Mr. M. Gitlitz, Attorney, Town Center Mr. J. Winstead, Architect, Town Center Mr. H. Eisenberg, Marketing Analysis, Town Center Mr. J. Lindgren, Traffic Analysis, Town Center Mr. J. Brim, Architect, Town Center Mr. R. Brown, Jewel Real Estate, Town Center Mr. D. Kuenkler, Village Engineer, Buffalo Grove Mr. J. Truesdell, Village Planner, Buffalo Grove APPROVAL OF MINUTES Commissioner Goldspiel moved approval of the minutes of the Public Hearing of February 18, 1981, Commissioner Glover seconded. Change Paragraph 1, page 1 to read Chairman Shields announced that the Public Hearing scheduled for this meeting will be posponed until March 11, 1981 because the developer had not submitted all necessary documentation. AYES: Commissioners Goldspiel, Sheldon, Davis, Shifrin, Glover, Reid, Kaszubowski. NAPES: None, ABSTAIN Commissioner Button Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting March 18, 1981 - 2 - Commissioner Sheldon moved approval of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of February 18, 1981 with Commissioner Reid seconding. Page 2, paragraph 1, change Pinzer to Pinzur ; Page 2, paragraph 2 delete allocations and after regulations add for railroad stations; Page 3, paragraph 2 add plant after sewer; page 3, paragraph 1 change disasterious to disastrous; Page 3, paragraph 4 change indefinsible to indefensible. GROVE TERRACE CONDOMINIUMS Commissioner Button moved that the Plan Commission recommend to the Village Board for approval the Preliminary Plan for Grove Terrace Condominiums bear- ing the Number 8029 and dated February 2, 1981 subject to the following: 1. Acceptance of the review comments one through five of Mr. Kuenkler's memo dated March 10, 1981 to the Plan Commission titled Grove Terrace Condominiums. 2. Acceptance of Mr. Truesdell's review comments per his memo of March 12, 1981 to the Plan Commission titled Grove Terrace Condomin- iums. 3. That the problem of outside water flow into the subject property from the north be resolved to the satisfaction of the Village Engineer. Commissioner Glover - seconded the motion. Commissioner Goldspiel - I oppose the motion. I see no justification for the increased density. This would be the most dense development in the Village. Commissioner Button - I do not see any serious problem with the density. I would be much happier with the original plan. Commissioner Reid - We were given a memo dated January 23, 1981 listing the various densities per acre in the Village. Commissioner Goldspiel - That memo counted the planned densities. Some of those were built lower than what was planned. I like the first approved plan. This plan loses what we worked so hard to get in terms of openness. I am not satisfied with the tandem underground parking. It is a much less attractive plan. Commissioner Glover - I think we do not need another major intersection on Dundee Road. I think we should find an access on Buffalo Grove Road. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting March 18, 1981 - 3 - Commissioner Sheldon - I do not think this is where we need more multi- family. Mr. Marienthal - The revised master plan shows multi-family on this site. The Village Board looked at this site and additional public improvements had to be made. The additional public improvements were addressed with this plan and it will not only be of benefit to this piece but the surrounding area. AYES: Commissioners Button, Davis, Glover, Reid, Kaszubowski NAYES: Commissioners Goldspiel, Sheldon, Shifrin ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None The motion passed 5 - 3, TOWN CENTER Mr. Truesdell briefly reviewed his memo of March 12, 1981 to the Plan Commission titled Staff Review-Buffalo Grove Town Center. He stated that this plan has been reviewed by the Village Board and the BDDC. Mr. Brim briefly reviewed his memo of October 6, 1980 to the Village of Buffalo Grove titled Ken Tucker Proposed Concept Plan Town Center and he briefly reviewed his memo of March 12, 1981 to the Village of Buffalo Grove titled Town Center. Mr. Marienthal - The Village Board did refer this plan with this particular use. The majority feeling on the Board was that they did not have a problem with the particular main use, namely the food store and the placement of the food store was not addressed completely. The majority feeling was that they did not have a problem with it. In regard to the overall plan they felt that there had to be a number of refinements made. Mr. Gitlitz - We have entered into contracts with all of the property owners for this site. It is approximately twenty-two acres. It is very difficult to work with because of the extreme narrowness and because the Village wanted a certain atmosphere. We have been working with the Village for one year. What we have done tonight is what has been accepted by the BDDC through various workshops and the Village Board. In order to develop a shopping center you must have a finite plan. It was our understanding, going into this stage of the development, that that detailed plan was not required by the ordinance. It cannot be locked in entirely at this point. I know that the drainage on this property drains into two ponds. It is my understanding there is no problem that cannot be worked out along that line. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting March 18, 1981 - 4 - Mr. Winstead - The project was conceived after work sessions with the various groups that we have represented here tonight. In order to unite the back we ended up with the present design of the shops. The Village Green was a given. The traffic circulation is to have an entrance on Buffalo Grove Road which is a right in, right out it would come onto a circular road which accommodates the parking. That is separated from the food store parking with the lanes going to it. The other access would be from Checker Road extended. On Route 83 we have two access roads that would be right in, left in, right out, left out. The second entrance on Route 83 is right in, right out and left out which is basically an access for the food store tenant. It would create a separation of traffic. The third connection on Route 83 is a service exit for the food store. The final roadway connection is a right out onto Lake Cook Road. Commissioner Button - In August, 1980 this Commission passed a resolution advising the Village Board that they felt the food store was not an appro- priate place for this site. Commissioner Davis - You have a store within a mile of the proposed store. What would the effect of a store here have on that existing store? Mr. Brown - We would not operate both stores. That unit in Ranchmart is under sized for the population we are serving. We want to have a food and drug unit together. Mr. Winstead - The design we have here is not that of a strip center, We have your Town Center plan and based upon the experience of our personnel this center cannot be accommodated without a major store. It is not feasible. It has to include a major attraction. Commissioner Button - Regarding the uniqueness of the Town Center, how would the food store address that? Mr. Winstead - The uniqueness is the open space, the landscaping, the berming and the amenities, This is unique in its nature, This center should be built on twelve acres and it is being built on twenty-two acres. The super- market is going to be compatible with the rest of the center. The architec- ture is going to be carried into the food store building. We are going to do an archetictually compatible shopping center. In response to a question from Commissioner Button, Mr. Winstead stated the staff required that they design a plan so that there would be a walk through to the buildings along Buffalo Grove Road. Commissioner Shifrin - From my perspective this is not supposed to be a shopping center. Mr. Winstead - It is your opinion that this is not what you would like to see? Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting March 18, 1981 - 5 - Commissioner Shifrin - From my perspective this is three strip shopping centers thrown together. Commissioner Sheldon - Is what you are showing us tonight the shopping area of the total Town Center? What ties this in? What brings this together with the rest of the concept? Mr. Gitlitz - We have agreed with Mr. Callahan to make our two developments compatible. We think that we are giving a theme and a beginning of the Town Center. Commissioner Sheldon-From a marketing point of view the Jewel in Buffalo Grove is too small. You are looking for a market to put a Jewel/Osco and our present Jewel will someday no longer be there? Mr. Brown - Yes, we cannot combine a Jewel/Osco in the Ranchmart. Commissioner Goldspiel - We have approved a plan for the expansion of Ranch- mart. They are going to put it along the north edge of the parking lot. Does this plan kill the plan we have approved for Arlington Heights Road and Route 83 for Jewel/Osco. Mr. Brown - Jewel/Osco has never committed to Arlington Heights Road and Route 83. That is the Otis property. We have never committed to that property. There is probably no retail site within five miles of Buffalo Grove that we have committed to. Commissioner Davis - At this point you contend that without the food store you cannot build there? Mr. Gitlitz - Yes. Commissioner Davis - Based on the present retailers there are in this market would you say there is no market for a department store? Are there outside department stores that are now moving into the area that could be considered? Mr. Eisenberg - If you analyze the distance to Northbook Court, Hawthorn, Woodfield and Randhurst you are getting patterns of ten to fifteen miles between shopping centers. You have some major thoroughfares. We analyzed this area from a growth standpoint and from a semi-growth standpoint along Lake Cook Road. We looked at this location and we analyzed not only the fifteen or twenty acres that we have obtained but the whole sixty-five or seventy acres that axe located here. We think the whole area is very exciting. It is our judgement that we should focus down the amount of retail opportunit- ies that are available on this site. It has been indicated to us by the Village that they prefer not to use their powers of condemnation to acquire property to develop this. The plan that we have uses clustering of shopping Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting March 18, 1981 r - 6 - together. The plan is designed so that it can be expanded. This is a shopping center. We will have some formal service oriented shops. We want to cater to the sixty or seventy thousand people in the area. We are working together with Mr. Frank Callahan. From a marketing standpoint we have convinced him that he should build three office buildings, three stories high. We have proposed a theater located so that there is some use of the parking from the office buildings to the theater. We feel we can get three eating establishments in here. Commissioner Goldspiel - What about a junior department store? Mr. Eisenberg - There is enough room in the overall development so that a large clothing store could be incorporated. A major clothing store would not come into a Town Center concept with a population based in the three or four mile area of sixty thousand or seventy thousand people. If the market grows to the north the viability will be better. A store of that nature today would not survive. Commissioner Goldsp el - While the _food store does not bring .people to the other stores in the shopping center the idea is to get them into the habit of going— into this development so that they would go to the other stores in the site. Mr. Eisenberg - I do not believe that when someone comes to the food store they will walk the whole center. Four or five months in the year you will have people utilizing the whole site. You have to take into consideration the weather conditions. Commissioner Goldspiel - It seems to me that what you have said was, here is the food and drug store which is isolated from the rest of the development. That building is set across the whole project. I do not see people going through walkways between the arc of the buildings on the south side. Mr. Gitlitz - We originally had the food store further to the south, the BDDC was opposed to that. We then moved it further to the north. We would prefer to have the store to the south. The food store was facing inward with the back facing Lake Cook Road. Commissioner Sheldon - It has taken a year of work to get here tonight. How long would you project it would take to have this plan in the ground? Mr. Gitlitz - We plan to build this summer. If we cannot have the project zoned and closed by June 15, 1981 we are walking away. That is not a threat. It is an economic fact. Commissioner Davis - I voted against the food store but if it is handled properly, with the changing area that we now live in and with possible growth north of Buffalo Grove Road, a food store does not bother me. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting March 18, 1981 l _ - 7 - Commissioner Glover - I think we should look at the land use. My concept of the Town Center was the land use could be changed. We are only developing half of this site. Commissioner Sheldon - What is the reason that the Jewel/Osco was moved? Commissioner Glover - We looked at the first layout which had the food store to the south end. The next plan came back with the Jewel moved. We wanted to open this thing up. We wanted to see the Village Green. There are still problems with the Jewel store in my mind. Mr. Gitlitz - It is not a sacred cow. Mr. Eisenberg - Approximately 300 to 350 parking spaces are in front of the store. You want to make it convenient for the shopper. We would like to pull the building toward Route 83 to give ten feet to open up the vista. Mr. Gitlitz - Part of the problem with Route 83 can be addressed with the traffic study. Commissioner Button - Regarding a minor store, a store like Crawfords would not provide a draw. You are not going to develop the type of traffic a food store will develop. What you are left with is a food store in terms of draw. Commissioner Shifrin - What if you move the Jewel to the other side along Lake Cook Road? Mr. Gitlitz - If you move the Jewel to that side of the center you will never be able to handle the traffic. You will close up the vista. Ms. AnnMarie Schiffler stated that she felt we had a developer ready to build and from a tax payer's point of view the Village should not lose this development. Commissioner Davis stated his feeling that this plan should be moved along. The Commission was polled as to whether they were in sympathy with the general philosophy as submitted including the food store as an element. AYES: Commissioners Sheldon, Button, Davis, Glover, Reid, Kaszubowski NAYES: Commissioners Goldspiel, Shifrin ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None The poll was positive 6 - 2 Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting March 18, 1981 - 8 - Commissioner Sheldon - We have not heard the traffic study on this. Before we make a determination I feel we should review that. Mr. Lindgren then explained the traffic study as completed by him for Barton- Aschman Associates, Inc. Commissioner Glover - How can we improve the internal traffic flow problem? Mr. Lindgren - What we may have to work on is the internal circulation system. If we have a bank the pattern will change. If it is a savings and loan it will work the way it is shown. If there is a restaurant I have some modivi- cations. You do not want to close too many of the islands in the parking lot or you will be directing traffic in one area. I am concerned about stacking space. II Commissioner Glover - You are concerned about end caps on the west end of the south parking lot. Mr. Lindgren - You do not want to do that. You are going to force the traffic flow to one of two places. FUTURE AGENDA After some discussion it was decided that there would be another workshop on March 25, 1981 to discuss the Town Center plan and there would be a public hearing on April 15, 1981 to discuss the Cedar View Office site. At the April 1, 1981 meeting there will be a public hearing on the Trammel Crow site and the Henderson people will be ready. Commissioner Davis moved adjournment with Commissioner Reid seconding. Chairman Shields adjourned the meeting at 12:10 A.M. Respectfully submitted, '6)/.f/776. Za hleen Comer Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: Patrick Shields, Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting March 18, 1981