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1981-03-25 - Plan Commission - Minutes WORKSHOP MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION Town Center Retail Development- Ken Tucker and Assoc. March 25, 1981 'Chairman Sheldon called the Workshop Meeting to order in the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove at 7:4+3 P.M. Commissioners Present: Chairman Sheldon Mr. Goldspiel Mr. Button Mr. Davis Mr. Glover Mrs. Reid Mrs. Kaszubowski Commissioners Absent: Mr. Shields Mr. Shifrin Also Present: Mr. M. Gitlitz, Attorney, Town Center Mr. J. Winstead, Architect, Town Center Mr. D. O'Hara, Traffic Analyst, Town Center Mr. J. Schudt, Engineer, Town Center Mr. J. Brim, Consulting Architect, Town Center Mr. J. Brown, Jewel Real Estate, Town Center Mr. H. Eisenberg, Market Analyst, Town Center Mr. J. Marienthal, Trustee, Buffalo Grove Mrs I. Park, Administrative Assistant, Buffalo Grove Mr. R. Kuenkler, Village Engineer, Buffalo Grove Mr. J. Truesdell, Village Planner, Buffalo Grove Mr. Gitlitz reviewed what had taken place at the previous meeting on March 18, 1981. He stated there were concerns expressed regarding moving the Jewel from the north to the south end of the site. They transmitted that information to the engineer, traffic planner, marketing man and considered the thoughts of the BDDC. Their response is 1) from an engineering standpoint the property drains to the north, 2) from a traffic standpoint it would concentrate all the traffic at the-north end and provide a traffic problem, 3) the main thrust of the traffic comes from the west and would not be able to get to the north end, it would not provide good flow to the other stores, 4) the BDDC was opposed to the Jewel on the south end. Thus we felt this was not a viable alternative. - 2 Mr. Schudt reviewed a drawing showing the preliminary engineering for the site. He stated that regarding the sewer it exists at the front of the Town Center and we are going to bring it down on the right-of-way to the gas station. There are several existing water mains around the site. He then explained the engineering technicalities of the plan. He further stated that placing the Jewel at the south end would cause problems. The water drains to the south. - - In answer to a question from Commissioner Goldspiel, Mr. Schudt stated there are some depressions on the site. It is not in any way detrimental to the foundations. We will drain those depressions with our engineering. We will not have to compensate for the flood plain on this site. There is no historic high water that we have found. Regarding soil conditions, Lake County's concern for the ground water is that it is wet. With the underground storm sewer system that water will be drained out. Commissioner Goldspiel - How will you lower the water table? Mr. Schudt - The ground water table is very little. The water is there and does not go anywhere. When we regrade the site the water will drain off. We are planning on having two small lakes four to five feet deep. Commissioner Goldspiel - Have you looked at the feasibility of draining adjoin- ing property into your detention? Mr. Schudt - We do not have room to add any more detention to our property. Commissioner Button stated that he was not afraid of the lakes. Chairman Sheldon - The homes on the south/west corner have a problem when it rains. Mr. Schudt - The shopping center development will not add to that water. We may cut some of that off. Mr. Gitlitz - We have prepared a modification to the plan which we have done in conjunction with input from Barton/Ashman and the Fire Department. Mr. O'Hara explained the modified plan to the Plan Commission. He further stated regarding stacking depth on Route 83, we have moved the aisles back eighty feet. We have two outbound lanes that would store five vehicles. The Buffalo Grove Road entrance conflicts with the church and school. We suggest that the school loading be put in a depression for the school bus. Chairman Sheldon - The church as well as the Plan Commission has great concern regarding that entrance. Mr. O'Hara - We can guarantee that we would work out any problems so that it would be to the church's advantage. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Workshop Meeting March 25, 1981 - 3 - Commissioner Davis - Do you see any problem in moving that entrance on Buffalo Grove Road opposite the dhurch? Mr. Gitlitz - We do not own the property that you are talking about. It is a huge piece of property to purchase. Mr. O'Hara - The children will not be there during the peak hours. Commissioner Goldspiel - It is not just the children on the bus. We have a recreational facility, we have religious education classes after school, we have a very active parking lot and a lot of cross traffic. I am really concerned when we talk about disbursing traffic through various curb cuts. Mr. O'Hara - This is not going to be a problem. What we tried to do is accommodate traffic from various directions. If you start removing driveways you are creating a problem. Commissioner Goldspiel - What about the fact that you have a gas station and you would have a lot of curb cuts from Lake Cook Road? Mr. O'Hara - We advocate only two curb cuts for a gas station. Mr. Marienthal - I have a very strong concern with the ingress and egress regarding the school. You have stated that this will not be another Dundee Road. I feel with this number of curb cuts it will. We have set this aside for a special purpose. We want this area to be unique. Chairman Sheldon - There are already some existing cuts. I would make the suggestion that you would want to pencil them in on your plan. What kind of stacking is available for the entrance on Buffalo Grove Road? Mr. O'Hara - That is approximately two hundred feet. Commissioner Button - To my mind this opposition is more emotional than real. There is normally not that much traffic there. The only children that cross that road are those that take the bus. There may be a problem but it has not been demonstrated as one. The only alternative is to institute con- demnation proceedings. I see a lot of sense in the right turn in and right turn out. I do have concerns for this plan but this is not a major one. Chairman Sheldon - How many feet is that proposed entrance on Buffalo Grove Road from the intersection? `/ Mr. O'Hara - Three hundred twenty feet (320). We are adding very little traffic on Buffalo Grove Road but we are channeling it into a signalized intersection. I believe this is a well developed plan. Regarding the site access problem between the stores, we are going to control the movements by stop signs. The corner of the building was cut off for site distance. Regarding the Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Workshop Meeting March 25, 1981 - 4 - savings and loan, there is sufficient storage, there is approximately 20 car storage. Mr. Brown in answer to a question from Commissioner Kaszubowski stated the driveway in front of the Jewel is to get customers in and out as quickly as possible. That drive works there most conveniently. By widening the drive in front you essentially separate the parcel pick up from the through inbound and outbound traffic. We would prefer full turning movement in front of that store. Commissioner Davis - You show thirty-five feet from the side of the building to Route 83. Mr. Truesdell - The additional right-of-way for necessary movement for road improvement must be provided for. Mr. Gitlitz - We have thirty-five feet from our property to the building. It is not from the road but from the right-of-way. Mr. Kuenkler - The building is_probably fifty feet from the existing pavement. Fifty-five feet is required on that side of the road so that you need an additional fifteen feet. The building will have to be moved west fifteen feet. Mr. Gitlitz - We cannot accommodate all the finite extremes that the Village wants. We cannot solve all of the problems. The alternative is to move the Jewel fifteen feet. The employee parking is an expansion area and is a ciritical part of this plan. You would lose fifteen feet of the Village Green by moving the Jewel. Commissioner Glover - What is the height of the Jewel building? Mr. Brown - Twenty-four feet. Chairman Sheldon - Is there going to be any useable area around those ponds and how wide are they? Mr. Schudt - There will be very little useable area between the road and the lake itself. There will be some useable area near the restaurant. There is one hundred twenty feet (120) from the curb to the water. Commissioner Goldspiel - Could you comment on the problem of the three foot set' :track behind the retail stores? Mr. Gitlitz - We consulted with the Fire Department. They want twelve feet behind the buildings. We will put twelve feet behind these buildings. We will ask for a thirteen foot variation instead of a twenty-foot variation. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Workshop Meeting March 25, 1981 - 5 - We will compromise to make the plan work. Mr. Winstead, in answer to a question from Commissioner Goldspiel, replied that service vehicles will park behind the retail buildings. He stated that handicap parking is provided for but is not indicated on this plan. They will be located at each aisle end. Chairman Sheldon - What happens when it snows to that area behind the stores along Buffalo Grove Road? How wide is that? Mr. Winstead - It is twenty-four feet, the snow would be stored on the site. If we would have a big storm you would have an endloader move the snow to the detention ponds. Commissioner Goldspiel - What would you be planning to do to the commercial buildings so that the backs will not be made of cinderblock and would you enter into some sort of agreement so that people could walk through those areas? Mr. Gitlitz - We are going to use uniform material around the buildings and we will enter into a covenant with the Village. Commissioner Davis - If the Village were to condemn the property so that you could make an entrance to Church Street extended, would you buy that property? Chairman Sheldon - That puts more traffic on Buffalo Grove Road. Commissioner Goldspiel - You mentioned that there are constraints on this site. Doyou feel thatifgoing oa iretodevelopthe property west between your y P P Y site and Buffalo Grove Road that those sites are large enoughto be developed? gP Mr. Gitlitz - What you are trying to develop is a quaint area. You have to control that. Mr. Winstead - We think there is enough room to develop those pieces. In answer to a question from Commissioner Goldspiel Mr. Gitlitz stated that the property that does nut come in with this site annexation is Mr. Callahan's property. We have attempted to exchange property with Mr. Callahan so that all of the Village Green will come in. Commissioner Glover - Last night the BDDC heard Mr. Callahan's plan and we did forward it with a favorable recommendation to the Village Board. Mr. Truesdell - Can we have inspectors go through the Forsythe building which is to be moved to the Village Green. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Workshop Meeting March 25, 1981 - 6 - Mr. Gitlitz - As soon as we own the building you may go through it. Mr. Winstead then showed architectual illustrations of the buildings. He stated that they could not come up with a final design until they get approval and start leasing the buildings. The idea was to develop a main street look. The materials would be brick, for roofing composition it would be simulated wood and we would use aluminium. We would have overhangs. You would have a walkway covering of some type in front of all the shops. We would try to select one of the buildings and make it two stories. Mr. Gitlitz - How many colors do you feel you will have? Mr. Winstead - We would have five or six colors. Mr. Brown - Regarding the materials for the Jewel, we have not handed this over to an architect because it is not approved. But we would want to blend our building in with the rest of the shopping center. Mr. Truesdell - One thought in trying to make the Jewel more compatible with the center in the design of it you have a large structure close to Route 83. You could have a step up in the roof whereas the ends of the building would be at a lower level near both the Village Green and Route 83. Mr. Brown - Mechanically the final side walls have to be a certain height. Mr. Brim - I think Mr. Winstead can address that architecture. We did have some problems with internal traffic movements but that has been addressed this evening. We, on an overall basis, think the right in and right out at the south leg of the Jewel helps that. We are having a little bit of a problem with the independent development to the west. Mr. Gitlitz - Mr. Brown does not want to build a building twenty-four feet if he does not have to, as long as he can get what he needs out of the building. We do not want a shopping center that is going to be a monstrosity. We will work it out so that it is coordinated. Commissioner Davis - The condemnation powers will take a lot of time. If the Village would have condemned that piece of property and you had a road access from Church Street, would you have closed up that other entrance on Buffalo Grove Road? Mr. Gitlitz - You are much better off with the entrance on Buffalo Grove Road. With that entrance on Church Street we have four of our stores that will be effected. Mr. O'Hara - You would be making a direct entrance to Route 83 for the residents of Church Street if you opened that up. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Workshop Meeting March 25, 1981 - 7 - Commissioner Button - 1) Buffalo Grove Road is going to be a major road, 2) the food store seems to be a sound idea, 3) the Town Center Committee seems to be of the opinion that these buildings are worth saving, 4+) there is not adequate time to condemn this property. It would have been better to condemn the property previously. If you could have owned the property along Buffalo Grove Road,would you have bought it? Mr. Gitlitz - Yes we would have changed the plan a little bit. It took six months to put this parcel together. You have six land owners who are not going to sit through condemnation proceedings. We were told that the Village would not exercise its condemnation riabts. Commissioner Button - Now that we have created a monster by not condemning the property, I think we have the responsibility to get it moving. Chairman Sheldon - Who maintains the Village Green? Mr. Gitlitz - We have asked the retailers to give an amount of money that we will contribute towards the maintenance of the Village Green. Mr. Winstead, in answer to a question from Commissioner Goldspiel, stated this plan that is before you has the indicated landscaping per your ordinance. Chairman Sheldon asked that the Plan Commission be polled as to a favorable response to the planning concept. Commissioner Goldspiel - I would like to know about how this site fits in with the special tax district. I would like to know what use has been made of the B 5 ordinance from the other types of ordinances we have. I still do not feel comfortable with the concept until I see how this works with what is being proposed in the Village already. Mr. Truesdell - Our latest discussion has been led toward that type of district. To work it out through Mr. Callahan and through a land dedication and some maintenance by the developers. In terms of how we would do the landscaping, we are still looking at and trying to simplifying it and staying away from a special taxing district. We are not in favor of a special taxing district. Regarding the B 5, this same plan could have been built under B 3. B 5 will help as the rest of the center develops to control some of the circulation and compatibility of the whole center to the rest of the site. AYES: Commissioners Button, Davis, Glover, Reid, Kaszubowski NAYES: None ABSTAIN: Commissioner Goldspiel ABSENT: Commissioners Shields, Shifrin The poll was positive 5 - 0 with 1 abstention. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Workshop Meeting March 25, 1981 1 - 8 - Commissioner Goldspiel - I have two major thoughts 1) the food store set back is a major thing that has to be resolved and 2) I still have a concern with driveways. The number of driveways that are to be put here for the entire parcel. I need a plan of how this lines up with the driveways across the street. I want to see a pedestrain and bike path flow through here. Commissioner Davis - You should now draw a plan moving the food store fifteen feet. Commissioner Sheldon - I would like to see if the staff has any conceptual plans for the Village Green. Commissioner Goldspiel - I would like to see what the tax impact of this is. Can you figure out what the value of this construction is going to be and how much taxes are going to be generated for the different districts? Mr. Gitlitz - We can give you an estimate of what the center will cost and how much in taxes it would generate. Commissioner Goldspiel - Is there any other traffic study that could lend some light to the traffic here. Mr. Truesdell - We met with the traffic engineer that is working with Ted Henderson, he is Dave Miller. He is going to give us, by Friday March 18, 1981, a copy of his traffic study. He is going to be looking at what would be a viable traffic pattern with the remainder of the acreage along Route 83. We will make that available to the Plan Commission. Commissioner Davis - Would it be possible for a trade off of entrances at the gas station? Mr. Gitlitz - You would not want the traffic going in at the throat of that intersection. You will have a problem with the retention. Mr. Schuldt - There is a grade differential there that would cause some sewer problems. Mr. Gitlitz - The cuts that we show on our plan are already there. Commissioner Glover = -- What is the feeling of the Commission regarding com- bining the retention for this whole area? Mr. Winstead - We do not have the capacity. Chairman Sheldon - How long would it take for the staff to provide the answers to the questions that we have directed to you? Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Workshop Meeting March 25, 1981 l _ - 9 - Mr. Truesdell - We could get the information rather quickly. Commissioner Davis - I would like to set the date for the public hearing. The Plan Commission was polled as to the need to have another workshop before the public hearing. Yes indicating the need for another workshop. AYES: Commissioner Goldspiel NAYES: Commissioners Button, Davis, Glover, Reid, Kaszubowski ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Commissioners Shields, Shifrin The poll was negative 5 - 1 Mr. Truesdell stated that the next meeting that was open for a public hearing on this site would be April 15, 1981. The Cedar View public hearing was scheduled for that evening. The zoning ordinance needs to be amended prior to this plan being approved. It is normally the policy before the public hearing to get more of the engineering data in. We have not received enough engineering data on this site yet. 1 After some discussion it was determined that on April 15, 1981 there would be a public hearing for Cedar View and the Town Center. Commissioner Kaszubowski moved adjournment with Commissioner Goldspiel second- ing. Chairman Sheldon adjourned the meeting at 10:40 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Kathleen Comer Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: Patrick Shields Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Workshop Meeting March 25, 1981