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1979-09-19 - Plan Commission - Minutes PUBLIC HEARING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION BUFFALO GROVE DATSUN SEPTEMBER 19, 1979 Chairman Shields called the Hearing to order at 9:05 P.M. at the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard. Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields Mr. Harris Mrs. Sheldon Mrs. Reid Mr. Shifrin Mr. Glover Commissioners Absent: Mr. Goldspiel Mr. Button Mr. Davis Also Present: Mr. Stephen G. Thompson, Project Engineer, Datsun Mr. Lloyd Fried, Developer, Datsun Mr. Robert Stavin, Developer, Datsun Mr. Greg Boysen, Director of Public Works Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee Mrs. Bobbie O'Reilly, Trustee Mr. Richard Kavitt, Trustee Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer Mr. Bart Delaney, Planning Coordinator Chairman Shields announced that this Hearing is being held for the purpose of a Site Plan change for a car dealership on a parcel east of Buffalo Grove Dodge. Mr. Fried, Mr. Thompson, and Mr. Stavin were sworn in. Mr. Thompson distributed copies of a revised Site Plan developed that morning, and a letter presented to the Park District. Mr. Thompson stated that the size has remained the same. The only difference is the relocation of the drainage ditch. It was originally 25 feet in width and, based on a meeting with Mr. Kuenkler and Mr. Boysen, the revision encompasses widening the ditch to 62 feet, and have noted ground cover to help stabilize the base. The access lane is approximately 25' in width between the reference property and the Buffalo Grove Dodge dealership to the west. The staff's concern was fire access to the site. Mr. Thompson stated they are showing a 12' setback on the east side of the property with a berm along the entire east side of the property and also around the en- trance. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 ill -2- Mr. Thompson stated that last Wednesday at the Park Hearing, they came to a re- solution regarding their requirements to egress to the property. They have ten- tative approval from the State of Illinois for a swap providing the Park District with approximately an equal piece of property in the lower south corner of the property. The detention basin is being completed by the Engineering Consultant and has not been completed, but after discussing it with the Village Engineer, there is no apparent problem. Mr. Delaney stated that the developer has agreed to provide a 20 foot bicycle path easement, which we would like reflected on the plan along with the buffer strip. He stated that prior to any recommendation, they would like the follow- ing points incorporated: 1) the fire lane frontage - they would request the developer to grant a public easement to obtain access to the middle lot separ- ating Grand Spaulding Dodge and Datsun to avoid further curb cuts. 2) We have received a letter from Bill Raysa and he has a problem with the affidavit as submitted. It fails to give the legal description and fails to identify the original Restricting Covenant Document Number. Mr. Fried said he talked to Mr. Raysa and he was in error and has everything he needs. The original covenant is not on the Title. Mr. Delaney said he would call Mr. Raysa. Mr. Delaney stated he would like the Commission to opinionate on the removal of this covenant with regards to this middle lot. He said they may want to remove the restriction only on the Datsun dealership, which would give us control over the middle lot. If we remove the entire covenant, it would allow another auto dealership, which may or may not be desirable. He asked that when the Commission make a recommendation, he would like them to incorporate what their feelings are for this middle lot. Mr. Kuenkler stated the developer has addressed the concern of the relocation of the ditch and he feels they can satisfactorily do this. He said he would like to see one lot subdivision. Mr. Ayers of the Park District stated they have checked with Springfield and are advised they have no objection to granting the Datsun people use of their curb cut. He said this piece of land would have to be granted to the Village and the Village will grant it to the Datsun dealership. They have no further objections to the project. Mr. Fried asked why Mr. Boysen mentioned one plot subdivision. Mr. Boysen stated that they plan to develop only part of what is shown on their Plat of Subdivision. The description of this remaining lot would be a "remnant parcel". Chairman Shields added that they would need another Hearing for subdivision. Mr. Boysen stated that the reason to do this is to not establish a legal lot of record where they could ask for building permits. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 -3- Commissioner Harris said he is concerned about the promises made by Mr. Krause when his original development was approved, which have not been fulfilled; and is disturbed that we are setting a precedent in allowing this to be subdivided and not require these promises to be met. He said the developer had said they did not feel it was their obligation, but they are purchasing the land covered under these promises. Mr. Fried stated they have granted a 20 ' bicycle easement to the south of the property. Commissioner Harris stated Mr. Krause had agreed to grant the easement clear across and we don't have to allow you to build until he does this. He also agreed to construct a road to the park. Mr. Fried stated that the Engineering Dept. agrees that that would be impractical. Commissioner Harris asked if they were providing plantings all the way along the east side. Mr. Fried said yes. Mr. Ayers showed the Commissioners a plan of the proposed park. Commissioner Harris established there is an existing sidewalk along Dundee Road. Commissioner Harris asked if they had checked into a curb cut further west. Mr. Thompson stated that the Department of Transportation wants to know why they cannot use the existing curb cut. Commissioner Harris said this would give the Park District more useable land. Mr. Fried stated that the park cannot use that land. Mr. Ayers agreed, saying it is too close to the highway. He said the Park District is not allowed to fence in. Mr. Fried asked if they were to seal off that curb cut and move it west, when the middle parcel is developed, they would need another curb cut. Mr. Stavin stated they are swapping 3,200 sq. ft. of land. Commissioner Harris added that the Park District is retaining the easement. Commissioner Harris stated if they moved the curb cut to the west, they could share it with the other parcel. The way it is shown now, they are forcing them to make another curb cut. Mr. Fried said it would depend on what is put on that parcel because he would not want to share a curb cut with a McDonald's. Mr. Thompson stated they would have to move the median cut and the Dept. of Transportation does not want it any closer to Arlington Heights Rd. Commissioner Glover stated that the developer had talked about a 12' buffer and berm. He said this plan was revised 9-19 and this is not on here along with the bicycle path. Mr. Fried said this berm is Village ordinance and has to be done. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 Commissioner Glover stated that they are getting an easement to a very valuable frontage property and they are trading equal property at the rear of the lot of far less value. Mr. Fried said the Park District cannot use the land they are asking to use. Commissioner Glover stated that does not decrease the value of the property. Mr. Thompson said they are giving the Park District $20,000 worth of land. Commissioner Reid questioned the fire lane and frontage road. Mr. Delaney said they are looking for a public access easement to go along with the fire lane frontage road so traffic could come in to the middle lot, thus avoiding a curb cut. Mr. Fried said he did not know of anyone who would cross their property to get to their property. He said if an Arby's or McDonald's goes in there they would be using our parking lot to go eat their lunch, and that would be objectionable to us. Mr. Delaney said he has asked the Commissioners to address the use of that parcel. Commissioner Sheldon stated that, regarding the Park District plan, you have given them this little corner of land. What are you going to do with the rest of the property. Mr. Fried said they would be doing nothing with it at this time. Commissioner Sheldon stated that, as a taxpayer, she resents giving them public land. Mr. Fried stated that is all the Park District asked for. Commissioner Sheldon said they are saving another $17,000 by not having to put in another curb cut. She said they are giving the Park Dist. property worth only half of what they are saving. Mr. Fried said they would forget the easement and put in their own curb cut. Mr. Thompson stated that if they provide the curb cut, there will be only one entrance to that site. Mr. Boysen said there would still be two paved areas and he would have no problem with that. Commissioner Glover said that would give us a far better plan. Mr. Bob Bogart stated the light poles are 24•' high and asked if they correspond in height with Grand Spaulding Dodge. Mr. Boysen said the Appearance Commission usually reviews the lighting. Mr. Bogart said that during the annexation of Grand Spaulding, that was a major issue with the residents and there were some special requirements. Mr. Stavin said their lighting will not go into the residential area. Mr. Gary Harada, 906 Crofton, stated he has mowed his lawn and planted trees at 10:00 at night because of the light from Grand Spaulding Dodge. Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 -5- Mr. Jerrold Orloff, 1100 Crofton Ln., said they have a list of 11 points a group of homeowners submitted to the Village Board. He also felt that if they want to use the rear area for parking it should be on the site plan now. 1) are concerned about a buffer zone because all they have heard is a berm which they do not believe is adequate safety. 1B) they have assured us there will be proper screening and the lights would be directed so they would not affect the residents. This should be made legally binding. He said they recommend the access be on the west side of the property and that there be proper- drainage. They are concerned about outside body work, painting and loud equipment. Mr. Orloff said he understood a "good will" donation had been turned down by Datsun. Mr. Harada stated he did not think any of them objected to the dealership, but would like to see it done properly. Mrs. Mary LaBlanc, 1125 Mill Creek Drive, stated they have lived here 9 years and were assured the land surrounding them would be residential. What is now Dodge and the proposed Datsun, was Phase II of the Mill Creek Apartments with tennis courts, swimming pools and an access street to exit directly onto Dundee Rd. When the Dodge dealership was expanded, the Plan Commission opposed it. The Village Board recommended a covenant recommending a second dealership was not to be built there. We are short of open space land. She further stated she feels Datsun should do something to benefit our community which they are going to be a part of and should show some sympathy. Mr. Stavin said if they do not build an agency, we would have no tax dollars. He said they would be contributing approximately $175,000 in tax dollars to the Village each year. Mr. Bogart asked what is to preclude the dealer from using the back section for storing automobiles without it being paved? Mr. Marienthal stated they would have to come back to the Plan Commission and that it has to be paved. Commis- sioner Harris stated that Buffalo National Bank has been doing it for years. Mr. Orloff asked what type of security they planned to use on their site. Mr. Fried assured him they would not use guard dogs and they would probably use cyclone fencing to keep children out but that is all. Chairman Shields closed the Hearing at 10:25 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Astrid L. Hasley, &riling Secretary APPROVED BY: Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Patrick Shields, Chairman Public Hearing September 19, 1979 PUBLIC HEARING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT - DRIVEWAY WIDTH SEPTEMBER 19, 1979 Chairman Shields called the Hearing to order at 8:4.0 P.M. at the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard. Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields `./ Mr. Harris Mrs. Sheldon Mrs. Reid Mr. Shifrin Mr. Glover Commissioners Absent: Mr. Goldspiel Mr. Button Mr. Davis Also Present: Mr. Greg Boysen, Director of Public Works Mr. Frank Hruby, Director of Building & Zoning Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee Mrs. Bobbie O 'Reilly, Trustee Mr. Richard Kavitt, Trustee Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer Mr. Bart Delaney, Planning Coordinator Mr. Boysen stated that as a result of Mr. Hruby's review, they found a dis- crepancy in the interpretation of curb cut and most of our commercial drive- ways would not be in conformance with the ordinance. He stated he does not believe this would have a significant change in our practice but would support past decisions. The driveway would be determined at the property line instead of at the curb. The width would be measured independently with each access lane. It would provide for a two-way driveway with a left turn lane. This would probably be the only modification from previous procedure. Mr. Boysen said Commissioner Goldspiel (who could not be present this evening) said he would like to see a median if the driveway exceeded 25' in pavement. Mr. Boysen said that would be no problem. Commissioner Glover stated there is no mention of defining the radius. Mr. Boysen said we have ommitted any reference to that because we have a separate ordinance called the Driveway Apron Ordinance, which defines that. He said he has written this to include only the part of the driveway on private pro- perty. Commissioner Glover asked what would be the maximum radius for residential driveways and what would be the maximum radius for commercial driveways? Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 -2- Mr. Boysen said residential has no radius required. In commercial and multi- family, it is up to the Village Engineer to approve the design. Commissioner Glover asked if there is any provision made for the angle of the driveway. Mr. Boysen said no. Commissioner Glover said he was just referring to the Illinois Dept. of Transportation which defines the radius return that intersects with the edge of the street pavement. Mr. Boysen stated that we would not go beyond the scope of the original ordin- ance. Commissioner Glover asked if there was any problem with adopting this. Mr. Boysen said it is probably more liberal than what we would want. Commis- sioner Glover stated we could use it as a guide and adopt it to our require- ments. Mr. Boysen said that would be possible but is not what we set out to do. He said this is something that could be done at this time, but he hates to delay this very much. Mr. Boysen said he personally felt it would be desirable to encourage all traffic to come in at right angles. The principle reason for this is the over- the-shoulder visibility of entering from a busy street. Cars now are required to stop. Commissioner Glover stated that we could try to do that with medians. This would give a faster ingress and egress accelleration. Mr. Boysen stated he could look into this further but would tend to disagree with Commissioner Glover. There would be no problem with the ingress but would not like it on egress. This could make it dangerous. Commissioner Harris (referring to Commissioner Goldspiel's memo) stated he agrees with him and does not like going into anything more than 25 feet without a median being provided. Mr. Boysen said he agrees with that. Commissioner Shifrin stated that, as written, he has no problem with the ordinance. Mr. Norman Toberman of Arlington Heights, a consulting engineer employed by Dominick's, stated that they want to increase the width of the driveway on Arlington Heights Rd. to 3 lanes (two 11-ft. outbound lanes and one 14-ft. inbound lane) . Then they found out the Village has a strict ordinance on driveway width. He said he thinks the Village has seen there is a problem with restricting the driveway to 25 feet and coming up with the two outbound lanes is a good idea. He said that the inbound lanes should be wider than 12 feet be- cause the car is coming off of a high speed road. He stated that he personally feels there should be a separation and the question is how wide. He said that when you get too small medians, however, they are as much of a hazard and main- tenance problem as a help. Salt eats away at it. Also, a raised curb can be a problem if a car does not make the turn. As far as a median at a shopping cen- ter such as Dominick's, he would suggest rumble strips or 4 foot thermoplastic Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 -3- medians. Chairman Shields closed the Public Hearing at 9:04 P.M. Respectfully submitted, I Astrid L. Hasley Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: Patrick Shields, Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 PUBLIC HEARING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT - REAR YARD SEPTEMBER 19, 1979 Chairman Shields called the Hearing to order at 8:22 P.M. at the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard. Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields Mr. Harris Mrs. Sheldon Mrs. Reid Mr. Shifrin Mr. Glover Commissioners Absent: Mr. Goldspiel Mr. Button Mr. Davis Also Present: Mr. Greg Boysen, Director of Public Works Mr. Frank Hruby, Director of Building & Zoning Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee Mrs. Bobbie O'Reilly, Trustee Mr. Richard Kavitt, Trustee Mr. Bart Delaney, Planning Coordinator Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer Mr. Delaney stated that the Building Department has been experiencing problems in establishing rear lot lines in wedge-shaped lots. There has been a differ- ence of opinion with the ZBA and Mr. Hruby. Mr. Hruby feels they should mea- sure 10 feet from the point of the rear lot, and measure the rear yard from there. The ZBA feels they should measure to a point equal in width to the principle building and begin measuring the rear yard from that point. Mr. Hruby stated you must have a lot line and when the lot comes to a point, they need a line to measure from. Most zoning texts state 10 feet. He said his recommendation would be to use the 10 foot mark, which is a standard num- ber and would not give the person planning to build on the lot a problem, be- cause they would not need to know how big a building they would be putting on the lot. The second suggestion would make it necessary to know the building that is to be put on the lot before you could determine where you were going to put it. When you use the acceptable planning practice of 10 feet, you will know what your buildable area will be. In reply to a question from the Commission, Mr. Hruby stated the 10 feet would be a point where the lot is 10 feet in width. He suggested that we might look at the subdivision regulations and discourage wedge-shaped or pie-shaped lots. Commissioner Harris asked why is it so important to know the buildable area? Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 -2- Mr. Hruby stated they can work with either one. Commissioner Glover asked if, on Proposal B, you were to have the house on a diagonal, how would you establish the width of the house? Mr. Hruby said he would use the actual width of the house even though it is on an angle. Commissioner Harris asked why Mr. Hruby wanted to use 10 feet. Proposal B forces larger rear yards. Maybe Proposal A is easier to work with, but, he stated that he feels 10 feet is too small and would recommend 20 or 25 feet. Mr. Hruby stated that once you approve a plan, you are approving buildable lots. Commissioner Harris said not necessarily. Mr. Hruby said that if you are look- ing for larger rear yards then you should, as a planning practice, approve larger lots. Commissioner Harris stated the Plan Commission does not make up the zoning. Chairman Shields closed the Public Hearing at 8:40 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Astrid L. Hasley Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: Patrick Shields, Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Public Hearing September 19, 1979 REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION Zoning Text Amendment - Rear Lot Line Zoning Text Amendment - Driveway Widths Buffalo Grove Datsun SEPTEMBER 19,. 1979 Chairman Shields called the meeting to order at 10:48 P.M. in the Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard. Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields Mr. Harris Mrs. Sheldon Mrs. Reid Mr. Shifrin Mr. Glover Commissioners Absent: Mr. Goldspiel Mr. Button Mr. Davis Also Present: Mr. Greg Boysen, Director of Public Works Mr. Ayers, Park District Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee Mrs. Bobbie O'Reilly, Trustee Mr. Richard Kavitt, Trustee Mr. Bart Delaney, Planning Coordinator Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer APPROVAL OF MINUTES Commissioner Reid made the motion the minutes of the meeting of September 5, 1979, be approved with corrections. Commissioner Glover seconded the motion. Page 5, paragraph 4: Add "and the comply with the policy prohibiting develop- ments permitting only one access point." Page 9, paragraph 2: The last sentence should read ". . .also include the list as part of the zoning Ordinance filed with the County. . .". Page 9, paragraph 3: To the last sentence, add: "when the State Highway Dept. sees fit to close the temporary access." Upon a voice vote, the motion passed unanimously, with Commissioner Harris ab- staining. ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT - REAR LOT LINE Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 19, 1979 -2- Commissioner Glover made the motion the Plan Commission adopt the Ordinance setting the revision for Lot Line, Rear as follows: "The rear lot line is the lot line or lot lines most nearly paralled to and most remote from the front lot line. Lot lines other than front or rear lot lines are side lot lines. If the rear lot line is less than ten (10) feet in length, or if the lot forms a point at the rear, the rear lot line shall be deemed to be a line ten (10) feet in length within the lot, parallel to and at the maximum distance from the front lot line." Commissioner Shifrin seconded the motion. Upon voice vote, the motion passed 4-1 with the Commissioners voting as follows: NAY: Comm. Harris AYE: Comm. Sheldon, Reid, Shifrin, Glover ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT - DRIVEWAY WIDTH Commissioner Shifrin made the motion to adopt the proposed Ordinance as drafted. Commissioner Reid seconded the motion. Commissioner Harris said he would like to see the words "35 feet width" (after 24 feet) deleted. This was agreed upon. Upon a voice vote, the motion carried 3-2 with the Commissioners voting as follows: NAY: Comm. Harris and Glover AYE: Comm. Sheldon, Reid, and Shifrin BUFFALO GROVE DATSUN Commissioner Glover made the motion the Plan Commission defer consideration of this until our October 3 meeting with a laundry list of items we would like to have submitted to the staff for Plan Commission distribution no later than Wednesday, September 26. The items would be: 1) Plat of Subdivision showing only the parcel proposed for development, releasing the covenant on this parcel only with the covenant remaining on the central parcel, 2) a Plot Plan show- ing the proposed berm with a cross section showing a height of a minimum of 4', 3) also show the typical planting of the screening and shrubs and, 4) provide for staff review and comment, a plan showing the height of the poles,the light source, and illumination pattern by September 26. Mr. Thompson said they may consider moving the location of the curb cut but are not saying they will do it. Commissioner Sheldon said we are asking you to make a commenserate donation to the Park District. Mr. Delaney asked why the Plan Commission is addressing themselves to a deal Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 19, 1979 -3- that has been made to the satisfaction of the Park District and the developer. Commissioner Sheldon stated we are trying to eliminate another curb cut on Dundee Road and we feel if the driveway is moved, it will eliminate this pro- blem; and from a planning point of view, to allow an easement on public pro- perty without a commenserate donation is poor practice. Mr. Thompson stated that if this matter is continued to another meeting, they have wasted their time because Datsun has given them until October 7 or 8 to begin work. He asked to be able to present the laundry list to the Village Board. Mr. Delaney suggested the Commission set up a subcommittee to review the "laun- dry list". Mr. Marienthal agreed that he would like to see this dealership built and asked the Commission to establish a subcommittee. Commissioner Sheldon seconded the motion previously made by Commissioner Glover. Commissioner Shifrin stated that it seemed that everyone who comes before the Commission is pressed for time. We are not dealing with the conventional resi- dential development, but a commercial development. Commissioner Harris stated that one of the things that takes a long time with any development is review by local authorities. They know this and most of them are able to work it out. He said he did not think we have unduly treated these gentlemen. Mr. Stavin said that Mr. Krause had heart surgery and was out of the discussion for 8 weeks and this was not the Plan Commission's fault. Commissioner Reid stated she agrees with Commissioner Shifrin that, after hear- ing the testimony tonight, that we move this project out of here. A voice vote was taken on Commissioner Glover's previous motion. The motion was defeated 3-2 with the Commissioners voting as follows: AYE: Comm. Harris and Glover NAY: Comm. Sheldon, Reid and Shifrin Commissioner Shifrin made the motion the Plan Commission accept the proposed plan and set up a subcommittee that would have pleni-potentiary power to affec- tuate the comments of the Commission in conjunction with the staff and pass this on to the Village Board. The joint meeting will review the following: 1) a Plat of Subdivision showing only the parcel proposed for development, releasing the covenant on this parcel only with the covenant remaining on the central par- cel, 2) a Plot Plan showing the proposed berm with a cross section showing a height of a minimum of 4', 3) also show the typical planting of the screening and shrubs and, 4) provide for staff review and comment, a plan showing the Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 19, 1979 -4- height of the light poles, the light source, and illumination patterns. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Reid. It was then determined that the developer did not want to move the driveway. Because of this, much discussion followed regarding a larger donation to the Park District in either cash or land. Mr. Stavin said he would give the Park District 3,000 extra square feet along the south end for a total of 6,200 sq. ft. Instead of an easement for a bike path, the Park District would get 10 additional feet outright. Mr. Fried stated they could accept that proposal or they could opt to take 6,400 sq. ft. along the south side and forget about the other piece. It was decided that Mr. Ayers would take this offer to the Park District Board for a final decision. This was added to the previous motion as follows: "And the developer will do- nate 6,200 sq. ft. to the Park District." Mr. Thompson said that within 5 working days, they would have the laundry list submitted. Upon voice vote, the motion carried unanimously. ADJOURNMENT III Commissioner Shifrin made the motion the meeting be adjourned. Commissioner Reid seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously, and the meeting was adjourned at 12:15 A.M. Respectfully submitted, aetet-1 ;3-A4',, Astrid L. Hasley ` Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: Patrick Shields, Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission Regular Meeting September 19, 1979