1979-11-07 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Dundee Road Traffic Presentation
Happ Farm
Comprehensive Plan - Land Use
NOVEMBER 7, 1979
Chairman Shields called the meeting to order at 7:45 P.M. in the Municipal
Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
Mr. Button
Mr. Davis
Mrs. Reid
Mr. Shifrin
Mr. Glover
Commissioners Absent: Mrs. Sheldon
Also Present: Mr. James Mastandrea, Happ Farm
Mr. James Mikes, Attorney, Happ Farm
Mr. Rick Burton, Land Planner, Happ Farm
Mr. Marco Franco, Engineer, Happ Farm
Mr. Joe McBride, Engineer, Happ Farm
Mr. Bill Kiddie, Buffalo Grove Park District
Mr. Bill O'Reilly, Buffalo Grove Park District
Sgt. John Crimmins, Buffalo Grove Police Department
Mr. John Mafienthal, Village Trustee
Mrs. Bobbie O'Reilly, Village Trustee
Mr. Bill Sommers, Assistant Village Manager
Mr. Jim Truesdell, Staff Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Button moved to approve the minutes of October 31, 1979, with
th
e following correction:
Page 5, paragraph 2, sentence 2: Should read, "The State Police. . ." .
Commissioner Reid seconded the motion, which passed unanimously. Commissioner
Button and Goldspiel abstained.
BDDC
Chairman Shields stated there will be no meeting of the BDDC in November.
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Regular Meeting
November 7, 1979
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TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the transportation survey of the Village
has been drafted and will be reviewed on November 19, and if approved, will
be used as a basis for future transportation planning.
l TRAFFIC PRESENTATION - DUNDEE ROAD
. Sgt. John Crimmins of the Buffalo Grove Police Department displayed a map
showing the accidents in Buffalo Grove since the first of the year. He
explained that the yellow pins were property damage accidents, the red pins
represent personal injury accidents, and the flags represent 10 accidents.
He stated there is a heavy concentration in our Dundee Road area, mostly at
Arlington Heights Rd. and Buffalo Grove Rd.
Sgt. Crimmins stated that at the end of October, there had been 636 accidents
in the Village and approximately 375 of those were on Dundee Road. There have
been two fatalities, one at Buffalo National Bank on Dundee Road and one at
Buffalo Grove Rd. and Route 83.
Commissioner Button asked if Sgt. Crimmins thought the volume of accidents on
Dundee Rd. was due to the volume of traffic or to the design of the road. He
stated that the accidents were due to driver error. Sgt. Crimmins thinks that
Dundee Rd. is a basically well designed road. Some of the problems ate - the
exit from Golfview Terrace where there is no light. There is also a good con-
centration of accidents in the Ellen and Bette Drive area. He stated that the
area of the Happ Farm does not have a lot of accidents at this time. It was
established that this was because there are not many curb cuts in that area.
Sgt. Crimmins stated that the spped limit increases in the area from Lieberman
Plaza to the High School. If there was a stop light at Golfview Terrace, it
would meet the criteria to drop the speed limit. We cannot do that yet because
they say there is not enought ingress and egress there.
Sgt. Crimmins stated that there is such a concentration of traffic on Dundee Rd.
that speed enforcement is difficult. He said if they see a violation going in
the opposite direction, it is impossible to stop them. Sgt. Cummins stated
that a main factor is having the people know they can be there when needed.
Sgt. Crimmins stated thetehhas been a /0% reduction in accidents since the in-
ception of the traffic unit, and the Volume of traffic has probably increased
20% since that time.
Commissioner Shifrin asked Sgt. Crimmins what the ro osed
p p project would do to
traffic on Dundee Rd. Sgt. Crimmins stated it would be hard to say, but possi-
bly bringing some of the traffic out on White Pine might lessen accidents at
Arlington Heights Rd. and Buffalo Grove Rd. If we were to get a stop light, I�I
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Regular Meeting
November 7, 1979
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we could possibly reduce our speed limit in that area, which would be a plus.
Just the fact that the stop light is there, would slow down the traffic.
In response to a question from Commissioner Goldspiel, Sgt. Crimmins stated
that specifically on Dundee Rd. , probably the largest accident-causing viola-
tion is going too fast for conditions, turn violations and failure to yield
when coming out of gas stations, etc.
L/ Commissioner Davis stated that at the two major intersections, we have gas
stations with two entrances, one at the corner and one further back from the
corner. Would it be advisable to close the one closest to the traffic signal.
Sgt. Crimmins said he could see advantages to that.
Commissioner Button asked what the speed limit is noxtoto the project. Sgt.
Crimmins said it is 50 mph.
Sgt. Crimmins stated that the intersection of Route 83 and Checker Rd. is a
disaster. Commissioner Davis asked if he saw a need for a pedestrian overpass
for children going to school. Sgt. Crimmins said not at this time.
HAPP FARM
Chairman Shields stated the purpose of this meeting is to discuss the prelim-
inary plan and set a date for the Public Hearing.
Mr. Burton stated they had made suggested changes in the plan. They have in-
corporated a radius of 450 ft. . They rerouted White Pine Rd. so it does not
intersect Weidner. They made a loop street instead of cul-de-sacs. Regarding
the garages which should be set back 25 ft., there is no problem with that.
He said the first 4-unit building shows a setback from the High School property
of 30 ft. There is a disagreement in the interpretation of the Ordinance, and
they will look at it again.
Mr. Burton stated the number of units remains the same. There will be 204
manor homes and 270 multi-family. They have reduced the square footage of
the office park from 250,000 sq. ft. to 240,000 sq. ft. He said they can live
with the B-3 zoning. With these changes, they ended up with an increase in the
percentage of open area.
Mr. Burton stated the garages would be built into the slope. They will not only
screen the garages, but also the parking area and some of the buildings. Mr.
Mastandrea stated they changed the garage line so it is not a straight line.
Mr. Burton said the handicapped parking is shown by the X 's. These parking
spaces will be 12 ft. wide instead of 9 ft. The parking ratio and density is
essentially the same.
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Regular Meeting
November 7, 1979
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Mr. Marienthal asked what the garages would be like in the rest of the devel-
opment. Mr. Burton said it woulddepend on the final Engineering, but they
will beivi up to them as much as they can.
Commissioner Davis stated that this is the most unimaginative plan he has ever
seen. Commissioner Shifrin agreed. Commissioner Davis stated there is a lot
of green area, but no play area, and feels a lot can be done by clustering
and using some imagination. He also feels the parking for the office center
`./ should be depressed.
Mr. Burton stated the Park District has chosen to take money instead of the
land.
Mr. Truesdell stated that to cluster this plan more would mean building high-
er,buildings. They also plan a heavy concentration of landscaping. Commission-
er Davis stated it would not bother him to go higher.
Mr. Truesdell stated that most of the staff commentb have been resolved. The
street width in the cul-de-sacs where pavement is reduced to 24 ft., under
the PUD, the 27 ft. requirement has been waived. Also, the driveways are approx-
imately 40 ft. in width because they are serving 4 garages. Overall you are
seeing a lesser amount of cohcEete than if they were all separate.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated he agrees with a lot of what Commissioner Davis
said. He feels it would be preferable on this property, to go higher. That
would be more suitable to a busy area like Dundee Rd. He said he now likes the
garages and feels they make a good buffer.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that, aside from the Ordinance, he is not sure
there is enough parking. He said he is concerned about the absence of useable
open space. In this type if development, you need a park and am not happy the
park land shrunk. It appears that all that is left is detention. Commissioner
Goldspiel stated he is disappointed that the decision was made to give cash in
lieu of land to the High School. The High School is very, very cramped for
land compared to other high schools in this area. He stated he wants to be sure
the path at the north end is high and dry enough to be useable even when the
( detention basin is full.
Mr. Mastandrea stated that he chose to go with garages instead of open parking
because of the market, and the bedroom count should not attract more than two
drivers per family.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the rear yards of the units next to the park
look awfully small.
Mr. Mastandrea said he would like to hire a professional to design a park in
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Regular Meeting
November 7, 1979
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the park detention area because he feels something could be done.
Mr. Marco stated that the detention during a 10 year storm would be approxi-
mately 2 hours and about 6 inches deep. The 100 year storm would be 6 hours
and about 3 - 32 feet. He said that anything over a 3 year storm would have
water for 1 or 2 hours. The lowest point would have a maximum depth of 7 feet
at the north end.
Mr. Mastandrea stated that he is confident they can engineer this properly to
drain and be useable as a park. He suggested we consider taking it as a park
and he would be willing to put up a Letter of Credit. We could then try it
j for a year and if we did not like it, we could cash in the Letter of Credit.
f
Mr. Kiddie a section of the Ordinance setting the criteria for acceptable
park land. He stated that, as presented, they were shown a plan of a basin
which would have a good deal of water btanding in it. This is not under the
criteria and is not acceptable at this time. At this time, they do not have
a park and so the Park District prefers to collect the money. He said that
if Mr. Mastandrea is willing to put in a park with all of the facilities and
landscaping then they would talk about it.
Mr. Mastandrea stated he is asking them to see if it drains, then they will
take the money set aside and use it to put in recreational equipment.
Mr. O'Reilly stated that the presentation made to the Park District was very
preliminary and lasted about 15 minutes. At that time, they saw a Mill Creek
type of park here. The Park District needs useable land right now. One nega-
tive aspect of the site is its proximity to the homes. One improvement is the
accessibility to the site, but am concerned about the width. He stated that
the grade came to 4% and 1% is more acceptable as useable area. If this can
be turned into a Bicentennial Park, he would not hesitate to accept it.
Mr. McBride stated that Mr. O'Reilly is correct about the grade and with the
underdrain system, they can bring the grade down.
Commissioner Davis stated that they are talking about bringing in 84 pre-school
children and 27 elementary aged children. They have a lot of green space but
no play areas. There might be an advantage to going to a fourth floor and
opening up space for useable tot areas. If you are going to bring in 113'_ `:
children under the age of 10 years old, you should have a place for them to
play.
Commissioner Glover said he wouldllike to see some exploration done on under-
ground drains. Perhaps it would be possible to make a natural pond at the
north end which would be esthetic and would make the rest of the area more
useable.
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Regular Meeting
November 7, 1979
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Mr. Franco stated that they have the problem of water backing up from the ditch.
Mr. McBride said this is a point they H111710 1 into:c
Commissioner Glover asked them what they are going to do with the existing
marshy area. He stated that it appeared they were building on some of it
and what were they going to do with the rest to the north.
Mr. Burtonstated that they had soil borings done and the soil has a good
bearing capacity, but is slightly wet because it is so flat. He said the
drainage will be improved.
Commissioner Glover stated that he was glad to see they had broken up the
line of the garages, but that when they go to a 25 ft. setback on the east,
that will put them more in line again for175 ft. of continuous garages. He
said he did not see how they were going to be able to berm them on the east
side.
Mr. McBride stated they will be depressing the garages and they will start out
about 2 feet down. It has not been fully studied as to what the final grade
in that area will be. The landscaping will magnify the berming they will be
able to get.
Commissioner Glover stated that he would like to see them loosen up the den-
sity , which would certainly make it more appealing.
Commissioner Button stated he has concerns about the traffic generated by the
project and he would also much rather see greater height.
Mr. Mastandrea stated that once you go over 3 stories, you get into elevators,
which is a whole different cost, etc.
Commissioner Shifrin stated that, with respect to traffic, we had a traffic
study by these people that indicated the opening up of Lake-Cook Rd. west of
Arlington Heights Rd. would relieve traffic on Dundee Rd. ; and when I see traf-
fic backed up from Rand Rd. to Wheeling Rd., I tend to be skeptical about that
study.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated he would like the staff to pay particular atten-
tion to changing the profile of the detention area on the north; what affect
if any it would have on the lots that back up to it, because the:;people who
live there are concerned with drainage and would like a staff investigation
for the Public Hearing.
Mr. James Kowieski, 2 Beech oodhGourtCEazt, asked why they couldn't run the
drainage from the High School under ground so the children would have a dry
place to walk, and perhaps have a bike path.
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November 7, 1979
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Mr. Mastandrea stated that once you restrict the ditch, you restrict its capa-
city.
Mr. Kowieski stated that they originally proposed to have that covered and
have a bike path there. There are several neighbors who are very concerned
about having a swail behind them. If there is a way to have a dry park,
there must be a way to do this so the children would not have to cross a
creek. If you can pipe it from the south, you can pipe it from the west.
Mr. Mastandrea stated that the bike path was removed because it was part of
the contribution to the Park District.
Mr. Kowieski stated that it would have been a bike path at the bottom of a
potentially wet swail.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he had not been aware that the bike path
had disappeared. It is an absolute essential feature because you have high
school children (and there will be more and more as the area grows) and I
cannot imagine that piece without the bike path there.
1 Commissioner Davis stated that a bike path is not a park donation.
Mr. O 'Reilly stated that when the plan was shown to them, the bike path was
below water level. It also connected to the high school, but it did not
connect to anything at the east end, and access to the bike path was through
back yards. We are looking for a connection to the White Pine area.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that he assumed it would hook up with White Pine
Road.
Mr. Kiddie stated that they would be glad to hold a Special Meeting on Novem-
ber 29 with the developer. He said they are open to further discussion on
this matter.
Mr. Mastandrea stated that they will be notifying people within 400 ft. of
the subject property because of the width of Dundee Rd.
Trustee Marienthal stated that the drainage along the north property line was
to be enclosed. Mr. Mastandrea said the recommendation of the Village Engineer
and their engineer was to keep it open.
Trustee Marienthal stated that it was the feeling of the majority of the Village
Board members that it should be enclosed pipe.
Chairman Shields called a recess at 9:37. The meeting reconvened at 9:50.
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Regular Meeting
November 7, 1979
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COMPREHENSIVE PLAN - LAND USE ANALYSIS
Mr. Truesdell stated that the first section is Environmental Analysis and is
the same thing that is in the current plan. He said he added a minor paragraph
which reflected some work that has been done recently by the Lake County Plan-
ning Department. They have their open space and natural resources planned.
That is something the Village may want to look into in terms-,of determining
which areas to be more careful in developing and to set some guidelines.
The second section is Community Development Analysis. The first section re-
lates to population. The main source was the 1978 census of Buffalo Grove.
There was a population of 20,609. There has been a slight increase in the
non-white population. In 1970, school age people represented 33% of the total
population and in 1978, it had dropped to 28%. There was no increase of pre-
school aged children from 1970 to 1978. Mr. Truesdell stated that we have to
be aware of the sharp decline in school aged children and an increase in older
people and we may have to gear our activities to this section of the population.
Commissioner Batton stated that because of the economic situation, you find
that the younger single or multiple person households are not staying in the
suburbs. They are staying closer to the metro area and marriages are being
delayed. The average person is being married at 22-25 and are not planning
on having children for 8-10 years. Mr. Sommer added that they also are not
planning to have as many children.
Mr. Truesdell stated that the Table No. 4 on page 16 shows Buffalo Grove com-
pared to the satellite cities. The residential area is higher than the aver-
age.
Commissioner Glover stated that he feels the section on Industrial Uses on
page 17 should be reworded to a more positive stand. Commissioner Button
suggested it say - - "although Buffalo Grove suffered in the past from poor
accessibility, that situation is being remedied."
Mr. Truesdell agreed it should be written more positively.
Mr. Truesdell stated that we are the opposite of the national average in the
areas of Public Buildings and Parks and Recreation. He feels the reason we
are low on public buildings is because we do not have a Post Office or a
Library. The reason we are above average in the area of parks is because
of the Golf Course.
Commissioner Reid also brought up the fact that the school playgrounds are
considered parks here, but most municipalities do not look at them in that way.
Mr. Truesdell stated that in the Housing Section, we have been seeing an increase
in the number of multi-family units and we should be aware of the growing need
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Regular Meeting
November 7, 1979
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for some low-cost housing. He said that a family of 4, making $17,300 is con-
sidered eligible for subsidized housing. You will find a lot of younger people
in this category and it might be a good idea to consider housing of this nature,
possibly for the children of families living in Buffalo Grove.
Commissioner Goldspiel disagreed on the basis that the people in subsidized hous-
ing are not the children of the people in the area. As was stated earlier, the
younger people are going into the city and I don't think they want what we have
to offer.
Commissioner Glover stated he feels the multi-family homes are low-cost housing.
Mr. Truesdell stated he would ltkk into the northwest area and see just how much
subsidized housing there is.
Regarding the Transportation Section, Mr. Truesdell stated he had prepared a map
showing the major routes in the area which can receive Federal funding for improve-
ments. He stated there was a large increase of traffic on Dundee Road during the
3-year period between 1972 and 1975.
Commissioner Goldspiel said this was not a useful statistic because in 1972, Dundee
Rd. and Arlington Heights Rd. were two-lane roads. He said you are comparing a
2-lane road with a 4-lane road and he would like to see the growth since Dundee Rd.
and Arlington Heights Rd. have become 4 lanes. Commissioner Glover also pointed
out that Dundee Rd. was under construction at various points a lot of this time.
Mr. Truesdell stated that in the Public Transportation Section, he did not do
much because it is difficult to determine where the routes will be in 5 years.
He said he just wants to say that there is on-going planning.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated he would like it to say that there are a number of
Buffalo Grove residents commuting on the Milwaukee and Northwestern Railroads.
Mr. Truesdell stated he hopes to come back with more sections in December.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated the Transporation Commission would like to see a
bus service to Hawthorn and the reason RTA did not want to do it at this time was
because there is not enough development between here and Hawthorn. He- said he
feels that if Fiore develops in a residential configuration similar to the rest
of the Village, we might have the possibility of extending the route up there.
Commissioner Glover stated he attended a meeting in which Long Grove discussed a
Conservation Commission. Where there is non-buildable land in private ownership,
they would be required to let it go natural. He said he feels that is something
we might consider with the Fiore property.
Chairman Shields stated there is a workshop on December 8 sponsored by the American
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November 7, 1979
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Planning Association. There are a number of parts of the program that would be
interesting regarding zoning and subdivision planning. It is at Elgin Community
College.
Commissioner Davis made the resolution to recommend to the Village Board that
the Police Department increase the traffic unit by one additional car:-and an
additional officer, because the present traffic unit has reduced traffic acci-
dents by 10%. Commissioner Shifrin seconded the motion.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated it is not in our jurisdiction to say how other de-
partments should be manned.
Commissioner Button stated he would recommend we suggest that they look into the
problem of the number of traffic accidents, if it possible to reduce the speed
limit, the addition of a traffic light if the Happ Farm is developed, and addi-
tional coverage with existing traffic units during peak hours.
Commissioner Davis stated he accepted Commissioner Button's wording of the motion.
Upon a roll call vote, the motion was defeated 4-2 with the Commissioners voting
as follows:
AYE: Commissioners Davis and Shifrin
NAY: Commissioners Goldspiel, Button, Reid, Glover
ABSENT: Commissioner Sheldon
ABSTAIN: None
Commissioner Goldspiel made the motion the meeting be adjourned. Commissioner
Glover seconded the motion, which carried unanimously. The meeting was adjourned
at 11:00.
Respectfully submitted,
Astrid L. Hasley
Recording Secretary
Secreta y
APPROVED BY:
Patrick Shields, Chairman
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
November
m er 7, 1979
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