1979-12-05 - Plan Commission - Minutes REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Fiore/Hilltown
Bank of Buffalo Grove - Lake-Cook Road Facility
DECEMBER 5, 1979
Chairman Shields called the meeting to order at 11:15 P.M. in the Municipal
Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
Mrs. Sheldon
Mr. Button
Mr. Davis
Mrs. Reid
Mr. Shifrin
Mr. Glover
Commissioners Absent: None
Also Present: Mr. Don Asher,(Hilltown) Fiore
Mr. Robert Friedman (Citrust) Fiore
Mr. John Kinley, Planner, Fiore
Mr. David Gewalt, Harland Bartholomew
Mr. Robert Hamilton, Harland Bartholomew
Mr. Tom Dyke, Harland Bartholomew
Mr. John Marienthal, Village Trustee
Mr. Elliott Hartstein, Village Trustee
Mr. William Balling, Village Manager
Mr. William Sommer, Assistant Village Manager
Mr. Greg Boysen, Director, Public Works
Mr. Dick Kuenkler, Village Engineer
Mr. Jim Truesdell, Village Planner
Mr. Stan Crosland, Park District Director
Mr. Bill O'Reilly, Park District
Mr. William Kiddie, Park District
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Approval of the minutes of November 7, 1979, was tabled.
A motion was made to move up the discussion of the Bank of Buffalo Grove - Lake-
Cook Rd. Facility to the furst item for discussion. Voting was as follows:
AYES: Commissioners Davis, Shifrin, Button
NAYES: Commissioners Goldspiel, Glover, Reid, Shields
ABSTAIN: Commissioner Sheldon
The motion was defeated.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 5, 1979
-2-
FIORE/HILLTOWN
Mr. Tom Dyke of Harland Bartholomew and Associates introduced his staff and gave
a presentation of their preliminary findings with regards to land use on the
Citrust Properties Plan. These comments, dated December 5, 1979, are attached
to, and made a part of, these minutes.
Mr. Bob Hamilton of Harland Bartholomew and Associates gave a presentation with
regards to their preliminary findings of a traffic analysis. He noted that the
two major roads in this area are Route 22 and Buffalo Grove Road. He noted that
36% of all trips would be on Buffalo Grove Road. Some major recommendations
were:
1) Port Clinton Road should probably be closed and become internal to the
development.
2) Buffalo Grove Road should be realigned to stay completely on the Citrust
Property and extended to Route 45.
3) Route 22 could possibly need to be expanded to 4 lanes.
Commissioner Button asked what the reaction was of surrounding municipalities
to this development.
Mr. Dyke responded that Long Grove desired all low density, Vernon Hills would
like to see a lowering of density at their border, and Mundelein had no comment.
He had not yet talked to other municipalities.
Commissioner Davis questioned Long Grove 's intent to close Port Clinton Road
should this development occur.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked for a clarification of the realignment of Buffalo
Grove Rd. . Mr. Hamilton explained it should be moved along the property line
so that it could be constructed with this development without reliance on some
future development in the area.
Commissioner Goldspiel was also concerned over the shortage of east-west routes.
He questioned if additional interchange locations on the tollway could help.
Mr. Hamilton said this would probably not be feasible.
Mr. Dyke said that some relief would come when Vernon Hills extends Buffalo
Grove Rd. to Route 60.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if the effects on traffic on Route 22 would be
examined at further distances from the property.
Mr. Hamilton said that it is difficult to assess traffic impacts at distances
away from the local area.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 5, 1979
-3-
Commissioner Glover was concerned over the impact of the industrial area around
Prairie View.
Mr. Dyke responded that adequate yards and buffers should be provided and it
may be considered in the long range plans that the area be redeveloped as in-
dustrial.
Commissioner Glover felt that since Long Grove required 100 ' setbacks from major
roads, we should consider something like this so there is not a sudden change in
the development in the area.
Mr. Dyke felt that this could be handled as individual parcels are reviewed for
development.
Commissioner Reid asked Mr. Dyke to contact Vernon Township as to their plans
for a park in an area which is surrounded by industrial of the Citrust property
plan. Mr. Dyke agreed to check into this.
Commissioner Sheldon expressed a desire for increased open space on the property.
Stan Crosland, Park District Director, shared Commissioner Sheldon's concern and
presented a table showing what would be required of this development under the
Village 's school and park donation ordinance. This table is attached to and
made a part of these minutes.
Commissioner Reid had to leave.
BANK OF BUFFALO GROVE - LAKE-COOK ROAD FACILITY
Due to a potential conflict of interest, Commissioner Sheldon abstained from
discussion and voting.
Mr. Harris presented the original Bank plans to use this area as a storage room.
However, the Bank has now decided to lease this area as an office. The by-pass
driveway will be eliminated and a walk extended from the facility to the exist-
ing sidewalk on Lake-Cook Road.
Chairman Shields was concerned that people would have to cross the drive-in
stacking lanes to reach the facility.
Mr. Harris responded by saying that this facility would generate very few people
and distributed :,accopy of the original traffic study which noted this. He also
said that Plaza Verde is a worse situation since patrons need to cross moving
traffic lanes to reach the retail area.
Commissioner Glover was concerned over the elimination of the by-pass drive.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 5, 1979
-4-
Mr. Harris said that most banks do not have these lanes.
Commissioner Glover was concerned that this would set a precedent and the
Village would get more requests for facilities in the middle of a parking lot.
Mr. Harris stated he did not feel that would be the case because this facility
is a part of the bank building.
Commissioner Goldspiel felt that this type of situation was unusual for a bank.
Commissioner Button had no objection to the use but was concerned over closing
the driveway by-pass. He did not feel that this would cause a safety problem.
Commissioner Goldspiel felt that this request would ruin a good plan and he
noted the staff's recommendation to deny this request.
Commissioner Glover suggested moving the location of the door in order that the
by-pass drive could be maintained.
Mr. Harris replied that this could not be done due to the size of the building.
General discussion on this potsibility followed.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that if this had been a part of the original plan,
it would not have been approved.
Commissioner Davis asked if this facility needed two doors. Mr. Harris did not
think so.
Commissioner Goldspiel wanted to emphasize that the Commission could not vary
the building code.
Mr. Truesdell expressed a concern over people needing to maneuver through cars
in the stacking lanes to reach this facility. Commissioner Glover agreed with
this concern.
Commissioner Shifrin made a motion to approve this change in plan as requested.
Commissioner Button seconded the motion. The motion carried 3-2. The voting
went as follows:
AYES: Commissioners Button, Shifrin, Davis
NAYES: Commissioners Glover and Goldspiel
ABSTAIN: Commissioner Sheldon
ABSENT: Commissioner Reid
Chairman Shields adjourned the meeting at 12:55 A.M.
Respectfully submitted,
APPROVED BY: &t7,44,
Astrid L. Hasley, ording Sec'y
Patrick Shields, Chairman Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 5, 1979
PUBLIC HEARING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
DECEMBER 5, 1979
Chairman Shields called the Hearing to order in the Municipal Building, 50
Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
Mrs. Sheldon
Mr. Button
Mr. Davis
Mrs. Reid
Mr. Shifrin
Mr. Glover
Commissioners Absent: None
Also Present: Mr. Perry Snyderman, Attorney, Happ Farm
Mr. James Mastandrea, Developer, Happ Farm
Mr. Rick Burton, Architect, Happ Farm
Ms. Susan Bartels, Architect, Happ Farm
Mr. John Burke, Economist, Happ Farm
Mr. Mark Lovejoy, Engineer, Happ Farm
Mr. Gerald Lindgren, Happ Farm
Mr. John Marienthal, Village Trustee
Mr. Elliott Hartstein, Village Trustee
Mr. William Balling, Village Manager
Mr. William Sommer, Assistant Village Manager
Mr. Greg Boysen, Public Works Director
Mr. Dick Kuenkler, Village Engineer
Mr. Jim Truesdell, Village Planner
Mr. Stan Crosland, Park District Director
Mr. Bill O'Reilly, Park District
Mr. William Kiddle, Park District
The witnesses for the Happ Farm were sworn in by Chairman Shields.
It was established that the plan being proposed was 11.2 units per acre overall.
Weidner Road will be extended to intersect Dundee Road approximately across from
Crofton Lane. Along the northern edge of the property would be manor homes of
2 stories (25' high) and 8 units each. There would be 204 manor homes. They
would have 4 garages at each end of each building. The one-bedroom would sell
for $62,000 - $63,000 and the two-bedroom for $68,000 - $70,000. Mr. Burton
stated he encourages sidewalks on both sides of the streets.
The multi-family proposed is 3 stories (35 ft. high) in the rear with berming in
the front to give the appearahce of 22 stories, containing 6 units per module
with 50% one bedroom and 50% two bedroom mix. The manor homes would have the
same mix. Overall there would be one garage per unit and 1.76 parking spaces per
unit. They propose approximately 40 ft. between buildings.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
December 5, 1979
-2-
The garages would be approximately 22 ft. in depth and 10 ft. in height.
Mr. Burton stated the High School was very pleased with the design and the
potential of pedestrian access to the High School. They met last Thursday with
the Park District and are much closer to an agreement there.
Mr. Burton stated the office park would be 240,000 sq. ft. with parking of 1
space per 399 sq. ft. They are requesting B-3 zoning with limitations on
what can be allowed. They want the architecture of the office park to be
similar to the High School. It would be 4 stories high.
There would be 601 parking spaces for the office park.
Some modifications of the garages in the multi-family area were made. They
added some offsets, and in some cases, offset the entire building.
Ms. Bartells described the landscaping. She stated that the park would have
open space for active recreation. Throughout the entire park is an asphalt
walk which can be used for bicycling, cross country skiing, jogging, etc. It
would have a fitness course. She showed pictures of the timber form playground
they propose. One area would be a field for activities such as frisbee, badmin-
ton, horseshoes, which can be flooded in the wintertime for regulation hockey.
The agreement with the Park District is that the underground drainage system
would be in at the time of dedication and a letter has been sent listing the
improvements proposed.
It was established that the width of the green area at its narrowest point is
50 ft.
The first-phase would be 88 units of manor homes on 112 acres on the east side
of Wiedner Road extended. This phase would establish the ingress and egress
with the extensions of Wiedner Road and White Pine Road. The second phase would
be the multi-family in the southeast corner and the manor homes to the north,
consisting of 150 d.u. on 72 acres, and the manor homes would consist of 104
units on 10.6 acres. The remainder would be phase three. They propose doing
the park detention during phase three, although the detention itself would be
done during the initial phase.
Mr. Lindgren summarized the traffic study. He stated he is proposing a right
turn lane from Dundee Rd. onto Wiedner Rd. . He proposed Wiedner Rd. provide
2 lanes in and 2 lanes out.
Mr. Burke summarized the advantages of building an office park instead of more
multi-family.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
December 5, 1979
-3-
Chairman Shields stated that the Public Hearing would be continued on December
19 because the engineering data was not submitted in time for staff review. He
then asked for questions from the public.
Mr. Francis Morley, Chairman of the Board of the Buffalo National Bank, asked
what the expected population will be for both the residential and the office
areas. The developer stated there would be 2.3 people per dwelling unit, or
847 persons. He has no figures regarding the office area.
A representative of Mill Creek asked what provisions will be made to discourage
traffic north and south through the Mill Creek Subdivision. Mr. Lindgren replied
that this can be done if the Village concurs, and they will do so if it is con-
sistent with safety. He stated that if he polled the people here tonight, half
would feel one way and half would feel the other. There are designs such as
barriers like the pork chop island, and signs which are often used. If the
intersection is signalized, they could provide only right and left turn arrows
which would be enforced by law. He stated he would like to try the less strin-
gent method first and if that does not work, then go into a barrier method.
Mrs. Diana Hooghkirk, Beechwood Rd., asked if any provisions had been made for
stop signs on Wiedner. Chairman Shields stated that stop signs were part of the
recommendation of the Police Department and he saidTh®ith nktla 4e`4ay!'etop at
the corner of Beechwood and Wiedner Rds. is also being recommendedi but that is
not in the development.
Mrs. Hooghkirk asked exactly what was meant by the green area being 50 ft. at
its narrowest point. The developer explained that this is a construction
easement and the buildings would be an extra 25 ft. from the property line.
This would mean that the closest building to the existing residences would be
75 ft. from their property line. Since the rear yard setback of a single family
residence is 30 ft., this would mean a minimum of 105 ft. from the closest exist-
ing single family home.
Mrs. Hooghkirk pointed out that nbne of the pictures shown had sidewalks in front
of the manor homes. Therefore, the sidewalks would have to either cut into the
side of the streets or the grassy area.
Mr. Watson, Sycamore Rd., asked if there was going to be only 75 ft. between
their building and his. The developer stated there would be a 50 ft. minimum,
and with his rear yard, there would be 80 ft. between buildings. There would
also be a series of 4 ft. berms and planting material along that property line.
Mrs. Wiggins, 664 White Pine Rd. stated she lives behind the park detention and
was wondering how soon this would be landscaped, and if she was going to be
faced with a sea of mud and water for 5 years_during construction. The developer
answered that part of the initial construction would be improvements on that
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
December 5, 1979
-4-
area, but he was not sure about landscaping.
She stated that the people on White Pine and Beechwood would have to look at
this for 5 years and if someone had to sell their home, would this be some-
thing they could be proud of or would it be a "nothing".
Mr. Snyderman stated they were not sure because the dedication would be done
in the last phase, which means it would be a finished, improved park at the
commencement date of the last phase, which would probably be in the third year.
{ This means the engineering would be completed,alleviating the flooding condition.
{ The improvements such as landscaping and what you would consider would make it
a park probably would not go in before this last phase.
The same resident stated that the people on White Pine have been without power
approximately 7 times this year and were without electricity for 5 hours on
Thanksgiving Day. She said they are aware of their problems with electricity
and water and feels these are problems that should be considered. She asked
if this property was originally zoned for single family.
Chairman Shields said it was not zoned in Buffalo Grove. Trustee Marienthal
stated that the zoning was R-5 which is single family of 10,000 sq. ft. lots.
Mr. Stan Crosland of the Park District, stated that during the developer's pre-
sentation to the Park District, he had been under the impression that this
park site was to be developed at the same time as the first phase of the devel-
opment.
Mr. Snyderman stated that he did not mean to convey that impression. He stated
it would be a physical impossibility and would make no economical sense whatso-
ever to put in vegetation at the rear of the property while construction was
going on.
Mr. Bill O'Reilly of the Park District stated he was not under the same opinion
as Mr. Crosland, and that he understood that the detention was to be done during
Phase I, but the park was not to be completed until Phase III at the same time
as the office area, but that it was to be done during the first part of this
phase, sometime in 1984.
A resident asked what guarantee he would have that this project would not cause
flooding. Chairman Shields stated that because of the engineering criteria we
have today, i.e. the retention basin, flooding is not going to be worse. Mr.
Sommer stated that we do not have the engineering studies at this time and
suggested that these questions be presented on December 19th.
Mr. Burton Harris, 701 Silver Rock Lane, asked if this development was being
built under the PUD Ordinance. Chairman Shields said yes. Mr. Harris stated
that under that ordinance, it is required that the park be developed at the same
rate as the rest of the development and not at the end.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
December 5, 1979
-5-
Mr. Harris stated that the Ordinance specifically states "recreation facilities"
and a hole in the ground for retention is not a recreation facility.
A resident on Sycamore asked how they justified only 3.8 acres of park land for
the amount of residents being generated, plus encouraging the single family re-
sidents to use it.
The developer stated that it is actually 4.0 acres. He said the donation re-
quirement to the Park District is $100,000 and they are spending $120,000, which
includes the improvements.
The resident asked if the detention was included in that 4.0 acres. The devel-
oper said it is.
Mr. Roger Manson, Sycamore Dro, stated that when he moved here 4 years ago, he
read a "flowery piece" from the mayor, Mr. Fabish, and the Plan Commission
stating how Buffalo Grove was going to be developed as a low density area be-
cause people had moved here from the city because of its country sites. He
asked if we had abandoned that philosophy.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that it is essential to have a variety of differ-
ent densities throughout the Village. The Master Plan has called for different
densities in different areas. He also stated that 12 units per acre is not con-
sidered a high density.
A resident on White Pine stated that the Master Plan lists this property as R-6.
Mr. Truesdell stated that this property was referred to in 2 densities. One was
PUD 6, which referred to the back portion of the site and the other was PUD 12715,
which referred to the front portion of the site.
The resident stated that ahaoverall density of 12 would mean a higher density
than 6 near the single family homes. Mr. Truesdell-agreed she was probably
right. The resident stated that this would be a deviation from the Master
Plan. It was pointed out that nothing was approved yet, and the public asked
if that carried any weight, if the residents come attl state their opinion, or
are they wasting their time. Chairman Shields said they are not wasting their time.
Mr. O 'Reilly stated that he felt most people were here tonight because of water
problems more than anything else and the Park District shares their concern.
The Park District tentatively approved the concept partly of the finalized nature
of the park site as opposed to being a Mill Creek situation or a grassy open area.
He stated that the Park District has a requirement whereby they don't like ponds
(open water) . This plan does have a pond, which could be engineered out and
spread to the overall basin area. Also, there were some comments made regarding
the fill-up of the pond after a 5-year storm and the drain-off of the basin:.after
a storm, both of which will be covered during the engineering phase. Another
concern they have is that the fitness trail design is for 18 stops and this plan
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
December 5, 1979
-6-
has room for 9 stops, so should we utilize High School land or the White Pine
area? Mr. O 'Reilly stated he wanted to make the people present aware of these
concerns and ask them to attend the Park District meeting tomorrow night and
give some feedback on what the residents want. We are very land poor in this
section of the Village. The White Pine area is Village-owned and Park District
maintained and the Park District would like to take it over, but want to find a
use for it before they do.
Mr. Gary Harada, 906 Crofton Lane, stated that he feels the office park would
radically change the complexion of Dundee Road because at the present we have
no multi-story buildings on Dundee Road in Buffalo Grove.
Mr. Burke stated that it would not change the appearance of Dundee Road because
it is designed to conform in height and appearance to the High School.
A resident on Sycamore Dr. stated that he is concerned about the amount of
traffic this project will generate and added that he moved here to get away
from this sort of thing and feels that Buffalo Grove will soon look like any
suburb near Chicago because it will have a lot of concrete and very little
green. Chairman Shields stated we are concered about that too.
In response to a question from the above resident, Mr. Mastandrea stated that
they hope to begin construction in April 1980. The completion of the phases
depends on the market.
A resident asked how the trucks would get to the construction area. The devel-
oper stated that they would have to enter from Dundee Road because the Village
does not allow construction traffic to use VilltogesiAreettaEc streets.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that in their Exhibit 3, they note a commercial
influence in traffic, but do not note a residential influence, even though
Crofton Lane is right across the street. Mr. Burton said that was an over-
sight.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the Village has been against private streets
in the Village and asked if there has been discussion on the desirability of
having private streets in this development.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that the street west of the office park was label-
led as 21 ' on his plan. The developer stated that was an error and it should be
27' .
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that, in regards to the park, in the original pro-
posal it was 5.8 acres and then the developer said that since it was not going
to be accepted by the Park District, it would go down to 4.0 acres. Now we
hear it is below the standard for the population, and refer to the donation in
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
December 5, 1979
-7-
terms of the cost to develop it. He asked to have this explained because he
said he did not want to see them adding the cost of making the land suitable
for park use added on to the cost of the donation. The land has to be at the
point where it meets the criteria for the park before you can start taking cash
donation credit for work that has been put into it.
Commissioner Davis asked if the developer felt they would be able to get a traf-
fic light at Wiidner and Dundee Rds. The developer said he feels they would be
able to meet the warrant.
Commissioner Davis asked what affect would this project have on the property
values of the surrounding area Mr. Burke stated he had not looked into that
but would get an answer by the next meeting.
Commissioner Davis asked if this project would lower or raise taxes. Mr. Burke
said he would not say it would lower taxes, but it would have a positive cash
flow influence.
Commissioner Sheldon stated that the original proposal suggested some underground
parking for the office area, and all this plan shows is a sea of asphalt. She
fstated she would like to see more detailed plans for this parkings.and the possi-
bility of some underground parking to get rid of some of that asphalt.
Commissioner Shifrin asked the developer if the High School had asked for a land
donation in lieu of a cash donation. Miin d-$nyderman said they did not. Commis-
sioner Shifrin stated that it was strange that a school which does not meet 1979
standards for amount of land, would not make a request.
Mr. Sommer stated that the amount of donation generated by this development
would give them about half a basketball court.
Commissioner Shifrin asked ifofirther study had been done on the traffic on Dundee
Rd. since Lake-Cook Rd. was opened to the west. Mr. Lindgren stated that they
took a count at the ramps at Highway 53 and of the 1500 cars going west on Dundee
Rd. in the morning, 1300 of them turned south. He said it would take a year for
the traffic impact to normalize. Commissioner Shifrin stated this was a con-
tradiction of previous information. Mr. Truesdell stated that they were refer-
ring to when Lake-Cook Rd. opens to Route 12 and it is not open all the way yet.
Commissioner Shifrin asked if they planned to begin with trailer sales and move
to models. Mr. Mastandrea said probably yes.
In response to a question from Commissioner Glover it was established that Oak
Creek Apartments is the only development with less density on Dundee Rd. in the
Village.
Commissioner Reid established that the developer would be providing an 8-foot
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
December 5, 1979
-8-
wide path along Dundee Road.
Commissioner Reid asked that at our next meeting on this project, Engineering
input be given on the surrounding area even though it is not in the develop-
! ment, because sbmehof these_problems have been around for quite a while.
1
Commissioner Button established that the speed limit on Weidner would be 30 mph.
He asked about White Pine Road. Mr. Kueinkler stated that it was not shown on
the plan.
•J Commissioner Button asked why they are building the office park last. Mr.
Mastandrea stated that he felt the market would be ready for one in a couple
of years.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated he sees an internal safety problem with the
garages in the center of the project, where you have a $0 ft. high building
right at an intersection and people backing out of garages.
Mr. Lindgren felt safety would not be a problem and that people would have
to use common sense regarding on-coming traffic.
Mr. O 'Reilly stated that he felt traffic access to the remaining Happ Farm
property should be considered along with this proposal.
A resident stated she felt parking should be allowed on only one side of the
White Pine Road extension. She said it presently is very hard to maneuver
when cars are parked on both sides of the street.
Mr. Sommer stated that in order for the Hearing to continue on December 19,
the engineering data will have to be in by noon on Monday, December 10.
Chairman Shields closed the Hearing at 11:00 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
_41/-7)./e/62eC)41>
Astrid L. Hasley
Recording Secreta
APPROVED BY:
Patrick Shields, Chairman
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Public Hearing
December 5, 1979