1979-12-19 - Plan Commission - Minutes _
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Happ Farm
Fiore/Hilltown
Highland Grove, Unit 2 & 3
DECEMBER 19, 1979
Chairman Shields called the meeting to order at 7:40 P.M. in the Municipal Build-
ing, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners Present: Chairman Shields
Mr. Goldspiel
Mrs. Sheldon
Mr. Button
Mr. Davis
Mrs. Reid
Mr. Glover
Commissioners Absent: Mr. Shifrin
Also Present: Mr. Friedman, Fiore, developer
Mr. Asher, Hilltown, developer
Mr. Jim Mastandrea, developer Happ Farm
Mr. Ted Shapero, attorney, Happ Farm
Mr. Bob Duchek, consultant, Harland Bartholomew
Mr. Dave Gewalt, consultant, Harland Bartholomew
Mr. Paul Thompson, Fiore
Mr. Elliott Hartstein, Trustee
Mr. John Marienthal, Trustee
Mr. Bill Sommer, Assistant Village Manager
Mr. Greg Boysen, Public Works Director
Mr. Jim Truesdell, Village Planner
Mrs. Rosalie Kaszubowski, prospective member
Mr. Jerrold Orloff, a prospective member of the Plan Commission, stated that a
job change will prevent him from attending meetings on Wednesdays.
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APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Goldspiel made a motion to approve the minutes of November 7, 1979,
with corrections. Commissioner Davis seconded the motion.
Page 9, paragraph 3: Should read: Commissioner Glover stated he feels multi-
ple family homes "could be" low cost housing.
Page 9, paragraph 11: Should read: Commissioner Glover stated he attended a
*�J meeting in which Long Grove discussed a Conservation
"District" instead of "Commission".
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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The motion carried unanimously.
Commissioner Goldspiel made a motion to approve the minutes of the Public Hearing
of December 5, 1979, subject to corrections. Commissioner Reid seconded the motion.
Page 4, paragraph 4: Trustee Marienthal said "County R-5 zoning".
The motion carried unanimously.
Commissioner Goldspiel made a motion to approve the minutes of the Regular Meet-
ing of December 5, 1979, subject to corrections. Commissioner Sheldon seconded
the motion.
Page 1, paragraph 2: Should read "first item for discussion".
The motion passed unanimously.
TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION REPORT
Commissioner Goldspiel reported that the Commission was expanded from 5 to 7 mem-
bers. One of the reasons for the expansion was so that all(Commissionslcould be -1 �u0-41
represented.) He asked for anyone who know of someone who would like to serve, `r-t�'u,
to let him know.
Mr. Truesdell stated there are 3 applicants in the Talent Bank.
HAPP FARM (continued Public Hearing)
Mr. Sommer stated that the engineering on this project had not been received in
time for the continuation of the Public Hearing, and requested that the Hearing
be continued to January 2.
Mr. Shapero said they have agreed to the January 2nd date. He added that there
was a request at the Hearing on December 5th that in order for there to be a
better understanding of the value of the project, that an appraisal be made. He
submitted that appraisal to the Commission. He said the appraiser estimated the
value to be $39,000,000 upon completion, which was close to the figure given at
the Hearing.
Commissioner Davis made a motion to continue the Hearing on the Happ Farm to
January 2, 1980. Commissioner Button seconded the motion. The motion carried
unanimously.
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FIORE/HILLTOWN
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Mr. Sommer announced that the consultants would give a presentation on the fiscal
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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impact and on utilities. This will be their preliminary findings.
Mr. Duchek said they hope to submit their final comments by the 16th of
January. A formal report and presentation is scheduled for February 6.
Mr. Duchek stated they have attempted to take a look at the school districts
which would be affected, which are Districts 125, 103 and 96. He said they are
assuming the phasing would occur over a 10 year period with residential occuring
`/ during the entire time and industrial occuring between 1982 - 1985.
Assuming the development is built between 1981 - 1989, by 1992 there should be a
potential operating surplus of $510,000 for the Village of Buffalo Grove with a
maximum potential surplus of $1,500,000 for District 125. This is dealing basi-
cally with operating costs and not with capital expenditures. They are continu-
ing to work on other taxing bodies.
One of the significant things is because of the typical lag of at least 2 years
before property tax revenues come in, it could be 1984 before there is any sig-
nificant impact. Also of significance is the way the school district boundaries
lie, the ratio of non residential development for District 103 is considerably
higher than District 96. By 1992 the ratio would be $6,700 per student generated
in District 103 and $2,500 per student in District 96. He said he has not included
the additional revenue sources such as motor fuel tax and Federal revenue sharing,
which would be additional.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked why they assumed the particular development schedule
that they did. Mr. Duchek said it was due to developer input. He said that ob-
viously if the non-residential development were held off until later, it would be
an entirely different picture. Commissioner Goldspiel said that is what concerns
him, and how certain is he that it will develop this way?
Mr. Duchek said he thinks it is a reasonable basis, but there is no guarantee.
Mr. Truesdell asked where they got their estimates for the assessed value of land
figures. Mr. Duchek said it was through assumed market values provided by the
developer. They range from $225,000 for the 1-acre lot estates per unit to $60,000
per unit for the multiple. The non-residential ranges from $595,000 an acre for
developed light industrial property to $790,000 an acre for developed office pro-
perty. He said they feel this is reasonable.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked what year the school population figures are based on.
Mr. Duchek said it was 1979. He added that the school district boundary line is
the section line funning north and south.
Commissioner Goldspiel said he had not been aware of how dense the development is.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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Mr. Dave Gewalt gave the presentation on the water and sewer. He said this pro-
ject would use the samefacility as Lake County Buffalo Grove. The facility is an
8 million gallon a day average daily flow facility. Presently it is treating
3.2 million gallons a day of waste water. It has an additional future commit-
ment of between 1 and 2.2 million gallons a day. The reason for the range is
that some of the 3.2 is already distributed to on-going development in the area.
Taking the maximum figures, gives a total estimated capacity against the 8 million
gallon plant of 5.4 million gallons. That takes into account Buffalo Grove, Long
Grove, Lincolnshire and Riverwoods.
Mr. Gewalt estimated the average daily flow to the treatment plant of the proposed
development to be 1.14 million gallons a day.
Mr. Gewalt added that the Public Works Dept. has a contractual obligation to the
North Shore Sanitary District to provide them with an additional 2 million gallons
a day waste water treatment capacity. When you add that to the 6.54, it means
the plant is over-utilized by 1/2 million gallons a aday. It has been estimated
by the North Shore Sanitary District that it will not require the additional 2
millions gallons until 1985.
He stated that the 2.2 figure used in assessing the on-going development could be
incorrect. He said he does not feel the project, as proposed, would adversely
affect the Public Works Dept. 's ability to provide waste water treatment.
Mr. Gewalt stated that right now the Long Grove interceptor is presently being
utilized to about 52% of its capacity. At Point B, only 38% is being utilized.
He estimated the subject property and the Pegelow property to generate approximate-
ly 15,000 population. This would mean 65% utilization of the interceptor at Point
B and 79% at Point A. It does appear that an additional lift station will be re-
quired at some point along the collection system.
In response to a question from Commissioner Goldspiel, Mr. Gewalt outlined the
boundaries of the area covered by the treatment plant as follows:
South - Lake-Cook Road
West - to and including the Village of Kildeer
East - Tollway
North - the section line separating this property from Tally Ho development
Commissioner Goldspiel asked that Mr. Gewalt find out how long the contract with
the North Shore Sanitary Dist. binds that capacity.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked what would have to be done to accommodate future
development not included in Mr. Gewalt 's figures. Mr. Gewalt said this plant is
expandable to a point of 32 million gallons a day. It was conceived to be a re-
gional facility with planned future expansions to include the needs of the entire
area.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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It was established by Commissioner Davis that 10-12 acres of the Ind. and 0/R area
lies within School District 96, and approximately 17 acres of commercial. Comm-
issioner Davis said he would like to see more of the industrial in District 96.
It was established that the capital expense of running a treatment below capacity
is the same as utilizing it to full capacity so as it approaches full capacity,
the unit cost decreases.
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Commissioner Goldspiel wanted to know - if the plant has to be expanded - how
would this be financed? Mr. Gewalt said the original plant was financed 75% by
Federal funds and 25% by Village funds, but it cannot be determined how the ex-
pansion would be financed. Commissioner Davis said the financing would be the
same. Mr. Gewalt said his understanding is that the Government funds are given
according to need.
Commissioner Sheldon asked at what point do we say we have to expand? Mr. Gewalt
said the next phase would have to be started just about the time you reach your
8 million gallon capacity.
In response to questions from the Commission on how to determine when to begin
expansion so we do not overextend the treatment plant, Mr. Gewalt stated that
when the plant reaches 95% capacity, it is put on a restricted status and when
it reaches 100% capacity, no more permits can be issued. If proper planning has
not been done, you would have a sewer ban.
Commissioner Sheldon quoted a letter from VAGA dated November 29, 1979, page 3,
as saying, "Thus the Citrust development should be responsible for a cash con-
tribution to support the additional trea thent capacity." She asked if the devel-
oper was prepared to make a contribution. The developer's response was - - are
other developers doing this?
Mr. Truesdell stated that currently there is no system set up to put away capital
funds for future expansion of the plant, so VAGA recommended that a development
should pay its way for whatever capital costs are incurred. We agreed that devel-
opments should pay their own way, but we do not want to see one specific develop-
ment singled out.
In response to a question from Mr. Boysen, Mr. Gewalt stated that the hook-up fees
are supposed to go toward the capital costs, but the connection fees are really
only 1/4 of the cost of future improvements.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked what type of developments are n jor users. Mr. Ge-
walt stated a single family household is usually considered to be 4, a multi-
familycould varyfrom 1 generally- �, industrial is enerall lower, if not manufactur-
ing. Commissioner Goldspiel stated that we should be looking to reduce the num-
ber of dwelling units. Mr. Gewalt agreed.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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Mr. Truesdell stated that the Lake County Planning Commission prepared a similar
document and their figures show that the treatment plant will be 12 million
gallons over capacity without even considering the Fiore property. Mr. Gewalt
said it appears there is an arithmatic error in their calculations.
Commissioner Button brought up the fact that the VAGA document criticized the
idea of having a lift station. Mr. Gewalt said he agrees that it is not the
most ideal situation in a local collection system, but given the terrain of this
property or any other one, it would be very difficult and expensive to design a
regional facility that would operate on a gravity basis. The cost would be 10
time or more.
Mr. Sommer added that we now have 5 or 6 lift stations and to have one more for
a projected population of 17,000 is good.
Commissioner Button asked what the cost of expanding the Des Plaines plant would
be at today's prices. Mr. Gewalt said it would be $5 - 16 million depending on
how fancy.
Mr. Bob Pliss, Vice President of Standard Pacific, asked what the plans are for
the sewer line near their property. Mr. Gewalt stated he didn't believe an
alignment has been determined specifically. He said the design criteria he would
look at would be to provide the most gravity service as possible rather than re-
quiring an additional lift station.
Mr. Pliss asked the staff the same question. Mr. Boysen stated it would be up
to the developer.
Mr. Gewalt stated the average water supply daily demand this project would gen-
erate is 1.14 million gallons a day. In the summer the demand is much greater
that that. To find out what the maximum demand, past records in the Village and
reasonable design concepts would indicate that the average daily capacity would
be increased by a factor of 2.2 - 2.5, so on the hottest day of the year, this
development should consume 2.5million (using )
P gallons usin the factor of 2.2 He
said there are many ways of calculating this, but he used 80 - 90 gallons per
person per day, with some additional industrial demand. He added that it is
usually assumed that the average daily use per person will increase, but with
the push for water conservation they are hoping that will stabilize or decrease.
He said he personally feels this will not happen until some economic considera-
tion is given to how much water a household uses.
Commissioner Glover stated that he found it strange that the water demand would
be the same as the sewage demand.
In response to questions from Commissioner Davis, it was established that the pre-
sent Village useage (the area serviced by the treatment plant) is 3 - 3.6 million
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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gallons a day.
Mr. Gewalt stated that an additional well will be required and should be sized to
supply 2.5 million gallons per day, or 1800 gallons per minutes. This is what
this development will need and does not include what the Village system needs.
Commissioner Sheldon wanted to know how that comparedcwith the size of the wells
we have now. Mr. Gewalt replied that it is 12 - 2 times larger. He added that
he does not believe you can get a 2.5 million gallon well in this area. Most of
the deep wells are supplying 1200 - 1500 gallons per minute .and the deep wells
are not the most desirable aquifer to utilize at this time.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked where we get the water then. Mr. Gewalt stated there
are 3 ways to get the water. One is shallow aquifers, second is the deep aquifer
and the third is Lake Michigan.
Commissioner Goldspiel said he has heard that the shallow well water is not very
good and the deep well water level is dropping. Mr. Gewalt agreed that is true.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if we are running out of deep well water. Mr. Ge-
walt said yes. He added that the useage is increasing and presently it is being
pumped down lower than its ideal level in some areas, and right now authorities
are recommending that the deep aquifer not be tapped.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked how long it would take to build the pipes. Mr.
Boysen said it will take 3 years, and the process is under way. The first phase
should be completed in June of 1980.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if this is jeopardizing the Village 's water supply
by taking the entire Lake Michigan water - - which we looked to to solve our
water problems. Mr. Boysen said they have worked with figures that would take
this project into consideration.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if there was any way we could know what allocation
of Lake Mibhigan water we will receive before we approve this project. Mr.
Boysen stated it is not uncommon for the Annexation Agreement to have a contingency
clause. Trustee Marienthal added that this had already been done in the cases of
Falcon and Standard Pacific, that if the water was not there, they could not hook
up and building would have to stop.
Mr. Gewalt stated that Vernon Township has 4.4 million gallons estimated total
ground water available. Commissioner Goldspiel asked how much of that is shallow.
Mr. Gewalt stated the majority (3.38 of 4.4) .
Mr. Gewalt stated that he has recommended 300,000 gallons in storage be required
for fire fighting.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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Mr. Gewalt stated that the flood plain map given him by the developer utilized
one of the least desirable ways of determining flood plain areas. This USGS map
is based on floods of record. The basis the developer is using comes from the
Illinois Department of Transportation, Division of Water Resources, and is more
accurate and very acceptable.
Commissioner Davis left at 9:4.0 P.M.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that at this point it appears it would be unwise
to approve this project when the water we have and have been allocated would not
supply it. He felt it a waste of time to go any further in considering this
plan on that basis.
Commissioner Goldspiel added that he did not think the Annexation Agreement is
the answer and felt the Commission should get a legal opinion on this.
Mr. Boysen stated that if we do not receive an allocation and the project goes
ahead, there would be a great reduction in the draw.
Commissioner Button stated we need to look at what the potentials are for water
and to stop building if it appears the supply is not there.
Commissioner Goldspiel stated that another option would be to lessen the density
of this development.
Mr. Paul Leder stated there are three (3) sources available to service this pro-
ject. One is Lake Michigan allocation, there is a shallow aquifer that has the
capacity, and the third is the deep aquifer which has capacity right now to pro-
vide water for this project. There is good storage capacity through the year
2010.
Trustee Hartstein added that he thinks the phasing could be p g very significant on
these questions.
HIGHLAND GROVE
Chairman Shields announced that Unit 2 is being withheld for the present time be-
cause there was an error in it.
Mr. Truesdell explained that the developer was found to have some foundations
put in too close to the rear yard. Hoffman felt it was cheaper to move the lot
line a little bit since they do have that room to play with, rather than move
foundations. The Engineering Department has looked at the plans and has found
everything to be in order.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked if Lot 6 was buildable. It was established that there
is already a house there and thereshaae-been no violations.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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Commissioner Goldspiel said he was wondering about some of the monuments.
Commissioner Button moNted the Plan Commission approve and forward to the Village
Board, the Plat of Resubdivision for Unit 3A of Highland Grove, File No. 33-43-11.
Commissioner Sheldon seconded the motion. Upon a voice vote, the motion carried.
Commissioner Goldspiel abstained.
If
PROSPECTIVE MEMBERS
Chairman Shields introduced Mrs. Kaszubowski to the Commission and mentioned this
is the second meeting she has attended.
Chairman Shields informed the Commission that Mr. Orloff's schedule has changed
and he no longer wishes to be considered at this time.
Commissioner Goldspiel asked Mrs. Kaszubowski in what capacity she is employed
at Northbrook Realty. She replied that she is the President. In response to
further questions, she explained that the company owns property, but does not
own anything in theBuffalo Grove area and does not intend to do so.
Chairman Shields stated he has a copy of a letter to President Clayton from the
President of Arlington Heights regarding the proposed connection between Windsor
and Buffalo Grove Road, eliminating the jog. They have approved a subdivision
based on a different street arrangement.
Commissioner Sheldon asked when, if and how does the Public Works Dppt. feel they
are going to be able to service the Fiore area. She added she is hoping the
Commission will have some input from Public Works on this. Mr. Truesdell said
they are doing a cost/revenue analysis on it.
Commissioner Button said he is bothered by the physical shape it makes of the
Village. This makes of the Village, one of the least efficient shapes it can be.
We are going to end up talking about putting additional police station, fire
station, etc. up there. Mr. Truesdell agreed that this is not the ideal way to
annex.
ADJOURNMENT
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Commissioner Button moved the meeting be adjourned at 10:17 P.M. . Commissioner
Goldspiel seconded the motion, which carried unanimously.
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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Respectfully submitted,
Astrid L. Hasley
Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
Patrick Shields, Chairman
Buffalo Grove Plan Commission
Regular Meeting
December 19, 1979
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