2000-10-04 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: 0 A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 10/04/2000
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
October 4, 2000
Proposed Dominick's supermarket, the Plaza at Buffalo Grove
Northwest corner of Buffalo Grove Rd/Dundee Rd,Amendment
To the Planned Unit Development (P.U.D.) and Preliminary
Plan in the B-3 Planned Business Center District—
Workshop #1
Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer
Mr. Samuels
Mr. Trilling
Ms. Dunn
Mr. Panitch
Mr. Smith
Commissioners absent: Mr. Feldgreber
Also present: Mr. David Hene, Dominick's
Mr. Richard Cook, Stowell Cook Frolichstein, Inc.
Mr. William Perry, Compass Consulting Group
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commission Samuels, seconded by Commissioner Trilling to approve the public
hearing minutes of September 6, 2000 on Starbucks Coffee Shop. Chairman Ottenheimer noted
several corrections necessary in paragraph 3 of page 2. Commissioner Trilling noted the last
paragraph on page 2 required the number (9) to be added. All commissioners were in favor of
the amended motion and the motion passed unanimously.
Moved by Commissioner Trilling, seconded by Commissioner Dunn to approve the public
hearing minutes of September 6, 2000 on Culver's Restaurant. All commissioners were in favor
of the motion and the motion passed unanimously.
Moved by Commissioner Samuels, seconded by Commissioner Dunn to approve the minutes of
the regular meeting of September 6, 2000. All commissioners were in favor of the motion and
the motion passed unanimously.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS
Commissioner Panitch attended the Village Board meeting on October 2, 2000 where they
referred the CVS pharmacy/National City Bank drive through project on the corner of Dundee
and Buffalo Grove Road to the Plan Commission.
PROPOSED DOMINICK'S SUPERMARKET, THE PLAZA AT BUFFALO GROVE,
NORTHWEST CORNER OF BUFFALO GROVE RD/DUNDEE RD., AMENDMENT TO
THE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (P.U.D.) AND PRELIMINARY PLAN IN THE B-3
PLANNED BUSINESS CENTER DISTRICT, -- WORKSHOP#1
Mr. David Hene stated they have an existing store at the southeast corner of Dundee Road and
Buffalo Grove Road. It is an older store that does not offer the amenities that a typical
Dominick's Fresh Store offers. Buffalo Grove is a very important market to Dominick's and
they would like to be able to serve this community adequately. The existing center at the
northwest corner of Buffalo Grove Road and Dundee Road is somewhat tired and has some
vacancy. They are hoping to provide a shot of energy to this center. In order to so they must ask
to be allowed to amend the existing P.U.D., some signage and parking variances, setback
variance as well as a special use for a fuel center.
Mr. Hene stated the existing shopping center has about 120,000 square feet. He stated they
would like to demolish a portion of the shopping center and rebuild in that space the new
Dominick's store, which would be 66,674 square feet. In order to accommodate this, several
tenants would be relocated within the center. He stated they are proposing to redevelop the
entire shopping center. The center's appearance is less than contemporary now and they hope to
remodel the facade of the center in conjunction with this project. The landlord would be
remodeling his portion at the same time as the Dominick's is being constructed. As a part of this
development they will be improving the parking lot, moving the existing driveway as well as
adding two additional driveways to serve the fuel center. He noted they fully realize they must
work with the Cook County Highway Department which has jurisdiction over Buffalo Grove
Road.
Mr. Hene stated the Cook County Water Reclamation District is requiring them to provide full
detention for the entire site. This is a significant challenge for a developed site. They have had
to design an underground detention system to accommodate the full detention for the entire
center.
Mr. Hene noted they have heard many comments about their fuel center. He noted this is a very
significant business issue for them. They are flexible on the design and configuration of the fuel
center. They are showing a 400 square foot kiosk building, which would be manned by one
employee. They are showing four pumps on the south side and four pumps on the north side.
They have an all masonry building which will have architectural features to it, limestone banding
and additional caps and gooseneck lighting. The canopy will have bricks on all the columns so
there will not be any exposed metal.
Mr. William Perry stated Cook County is regulated by the Cook County Water Reclamation
District. When this development was originally done pre-1979, storm water retention was not
required. Today any developments going into Cook County, larger than five acres do provide
detention. MWRD recently passed an ordinance that says when redevelopments such as this
occur, detention must be provided. In order to do that the only possibility is underground
detention. He stated the whole site drains to Buffalo Grove Road. They are proposing to put a
large stormsewer across the front of Buffalo Grove Road that will collect all the water. That
pipe will be draining to an underground chamber located under the parking lot area and then it
would be slowly released into the existing stormsewer located on Buffalo Grove Road.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked what kind of maintenance issues that will involve.
Mr. Perry stated the pipe is a 6 foot diameter pipe and maintenance people can get down inside
to clean it out if need be. He noted there are other areas around that use this kind of facility and
they have had no problems with this type of design.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if Dominick's would be responsible for maintaining said
stormsewer.
Mr. Perry stated yes.
Commissioner Samuels asked for a recap of the parking data.
Mr. Perry stated they have proposed a total of 529 parking spaces which provides a ratio of 4
parking per 1,000 square feet of building area; the Zoning Ordinance one space per 220 square
feet of building area. He stated they have noted that among existing centers are not using as
much parking as required by the ordinance. He further noted that Dominick's would not want to
go here if they felt they were going to have too many people drawn in which would create a
problem.
Commissioner Samuels stated he would like to see some data to support the feeling that the
proposed parking would be adequate. It is, however, a significant deviation from the
requirements under the ordinance. He further stated that it appears that controlling access from
Buffalo Grove Road is a very real problem and asked if anyone had spoken to the Cook County
Highway Department regarding signalization.
Mr. Perry stated they do realize they are deficient by code. However, one of the benefits that
this particular site has is the abundance of multi-family housing around the site. A significant
number of people who shop at the existing store, and who will shop at the new store, will be
walking.
Commissioner Samuels noted there is a difference in that a good deal of multi-family homes are
on the south side of Dundee Road and the existing store is currently on the south side. He stated
there may be a significant change when the store is moved across the intersection.
Mr. Hene stated they have had discussions with the Cook County Highway Department and this
issue needs to be discussed further.
Commissioner Samuels stated he would rather see one signalized access than the proposed three
accesses. He further noted that the left turn lane for eastbound Dundee begins in the middle of
some of the access driveways, which is a very dangerous situation.
Commissioner Samuels asked what the proposed hours of operation would be.
Mr. Hene stated they always like to keep the opportunity open for 24 hours. However, at least
from the onset, this probably would not be a location where they would go 24 hours. They
would probably look to 6:00 a.m. to midnight.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if the gas station hours would run the same as the store hours.
Mr. Hene stated generally yes, but the gas station hours could be longer.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if there is any thought to a 24 hour gas station.
Mr. Hene stated that if the store is a 24-hour facility it is possible the gas station would be 24
hours. They do not know if 24 hours would be warranted for the gas station as they have not had
a lot of experience with same.
Commissioner Samuels stated he would like to see the proposed floor plan for the gas station
kiosk.
Commissioner Samuels asked how the proposed store size compares with the existing store.
Mr. Hene noted the existing store is about 36,000 square feet and the proposed store would be
66,674 square feet.
Commissioner Samuels asked what kind of fencing is proposed for the back of the store area.
Mr. Hene stated they are proposing a wood opaque fence along the western property line.
Mr. Perry stated there are some nice grass areas in the back and they have no intention of paving
all of it. They would like to use some of the areas that are close to the proposed Dominick's
paved areas for some additional parking.
Commissioner Samuels stated he would like to see a more fully developed landscape plan for the
western side of the building.
Commissioner Samuels asked about lighting for the back end of the shopping center and the
parking lot.
Mr. Perry stated the backside is typically lit with lights on the building more for security than
anything else. It is downlit lighting and does not throw out to the neighbors.
Mr. Hene stated that lighting is generally 24 hours but they will do whatever the Village wanted
done.
Commissioner Smith asked if the parking variance is needed because of the fuel facility.
Mr. Hene noted certainly the fuel center takes up area within the shopping center, as does the
store.
Commissioner Smith asked how many spaces they would be short without the fuel center.
Mr. Hene stated none.
Commissioner Smith stated he loves the idea of refurbishing this center and Dominick's would
be great in this spot. However, he has grave concerns with the parking situation and would not
like to see the center underparked, which is what it appears it will be. He asked what the real
need is for Dominick's to be in this center.
Mr. Hene stated that increasingly in the grocery business you will be likely to see more reasons
to get people to come to the store. They are trying to be the type of business that can offer a
range of services and goods. They are doing things inside the store that will offer a bank,
Starbuck's, an expanded cafe area and possibly a dry cleaning service. In the age of threats from
the Internet and e-commerce, etc. they need to give people a reason to visit the business and a
fuel center would be such service. He noted Dominick's will be cheaper and the service will be
better.
Commissioner Dunn asked if there had been any study noting the need for an additional gas
station in Buffalo Grove.
Mr. Hene stated there is such a need and they have just received the study.
Commissioner Dunn asked if that study could be provided at the next meeting.
Mr. Hene stated it is something that can be discussed in generalities but it is a proprietary
document. He noted they can talk about volumes and number of cars and traffic impacts, but he
would not like to discuss the dollars and cents side of the business.
Commissioner Dunn asked how gas station traffic will be differentiated from grocery store
shopper traffic.
Mr. Hene explored the proposed configuration of the parking aisles and the gas station.
Commissioner Dunn noted there is nothing there that would stop grocery store shoppers from
going through the service station to exit onto Buffalo Grove Road.
Mr. Hene noted that was something they would look at.
Commissioner Dunn asked if gas prices would be shown anywhere in the Dominick's store.
Mr. Hene stated there might be interior signs and possibly a window paper sign just to let people
know what is available.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked what brand of gas would be sold.
Mr. Hene stated it would be gas they would buy from a refinery and called Dominick's.
Commissioner Panitch asked how large the underground chambers for detention would be.
Mr. Perry stated it would depend on how things work out. However, their initial concept is to
use 6-foot diameter pipes to collect the water and it would also be used as part of the detention
area. The chamber would be approximately 100 x 250 feet.
Commissioner Panitch stated he concurs with the other Commissioners regarding the furthest
north exit and the problems with turning left there.
Commissioner Panitch asked if the pharmacy in the proposed Dominick's would be larger than
the existing one.
Mr. Hene stated it would be larger.
Commissioner Panitch asked for an analysis of the need for a larger pharmacy since there are
numerous pharmacies all over the area and another one proposed directly across the street.
Commissioner Panitch asked for views of the proposed Dominick's store on the west side. He
asked about the fire marshal's comments on the parcel pickup lane versus fire lane. He noted it
is presently noted as a parcel pickup though it needs to be designated as a fire lane.
Mr. Hene stated the parcel pickup lane gets very little use and in fact is used less than in
previous times. The reason for that is every customer leaving the store should be asked if they
want their groceries carried to the car by one of the Dominick associates. Therefore, although
they would like to retain the parcel pickup area or find an abbreviated area for same, it is not
what it once was.
Commissioner Panitch asked for the actual number of parking spaces proposed for this plan.
Mr. Hene stated there would be 494 parking spaces provided.
Commissioner Panitch asked if the proposed size of the building could somehow be reduced so
that more parking could be found either in the front.
Mr. Hene stated the size of the store is important because it will allow them to do the kinds of
things in Buffalo Grove they have not been able to do such as a scratch bakery, an appropriate
seafood/meat department, etc. With the type of demand they are likely to see here they feel this
is an appropriate size for this parcel.
Commissioner Panitch noted the difference between the proposed parking and what the
ordinance calls for is quite a large percentage. He noted that somehow there needs to be
additional space for parking.
Commissioner Trilling asked about the ownership of the center contiguous to the proposed plan.
He also asked what modifications, if any, would be made to that center.
Mr. Hene stated the other shopping center is under different ownership and no upgrades are
proposed there.
Commissioner Trilling asked about the width of the parking spaces.
Mr. Perry stated the spaces would be 9 feet in width.
Mr. Perry noted they would like to look to the Plan Commission for some help in designing the
parking configuration and spaces.
Commissioner Trilling noted his concern is with a 9-foot wide space and perpendicular parking
which limits the ability to get in and out.
Commissioner Trilling noted his concern with the northernmost traffic aisle where the Dairy
Queen and Blockbuster stores are located. He noted this will also be the first access point that
someone has the ability to enter the center coming off of Buffalo Grove Road and you will never
be able to stop people from pulling alongside that curb to drop off a movie. He said it would be
a problem for another car to go westbound and an oncoming car going eastbound. He asked if
any consideration could be given to making that aisle way-one way traffic only whether it be
eastbound or westbound.
Commissioner Trilling asked if there are any other users in the center that the landlord is
negotiating with consistent with the Dominick's negotiations so that a better idea of the center
could be formulated.
Mr. Hene stated he does not know of any knew tenants down the road, although he suspect there
may be a couple of new ones as leases are always coming due and with Dominick's being there
it will become a more attractive center.
Commissioner Trilling noted that many delivery trucks tend to line the fence line adjacent to the
truck docks and asked what Dominick's will do with those kinds of goods.
Mr. Hene stated there will be a need to stage vehicles. The thought is that they will be staged
behind the store and there will be other doors so that smaller vendors can go and unload their
goods and move on without having to wait for the larger trucks.
Commissioner Trilling asked that those locations for smaller trucks be depicted on the next plan
as well as the staging for those trucks.
Commissioner Samuels noted several facilities have recently been before the Plan Commission
with drive up facilities and the advent of internet shopping seems to require drive up facilities,
yet none have been provided on this plan. He asked if this was intentional or if it is something
that should be looked at.
Mr. Hene stated there are no Dominick's today that have that type of facility and if this center
allowed them to do that, it might be a consideration. However, there is no opportunity for this at
this location.
Commissioner Samuels noted that the inside corner could be used if the building comes down.
He noted you could have traffic circulate around and come back across the side of the building
and circulate back out.
Mr. Hene stated that if the landlord wanted to demolish that building and allow them to do a
drive up they would entertain that.
Commissioner Samuels also suggested that running the canopy for the gasoline kiosk
perpendicular to the building may be a good idea as it would give them a drive thru lane for the
building in the front and the gas pumps further down.
Mr. Hene stated they have begun to pull off the canopies off of their Omni stores because they
are kind of dark and unwelcoming places.
Commissioner Smith asked what the refacing by the landlord will be like.
Mr. Hene stated it would be consistent with the Dominick's facade.
Commissioner Smith asked if the Dominick's building could be slightly moved to the east in
order to come up with the setback required by the ordinance.
Mr. Perry stated it is possible but one of the problems is that they would then encroach further
into the parking and more tenants would be covered up. He stated that even though they are
asking for a variance here, he feels they are really in a better situation than Wild Oats was. Even
though they are closer, they have a much more controlled loading area.
Commissioner stated he likes the whole plan but if it could be moved away from the residents it
would be even better and he would not even mind cutting into the parking there. He also feels
that getting rid of the fuel center would probably allow for sufficient parking.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated the Commission is giving this plan such close and careful scrutiny
because of the number of issues it presents such as the impact on adjacent residential properties
and the traffic and traffic circulation which is in conjunction with a major development near a
relatively major intersection that is also going to go in conjunction with another development
across the street.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated he would like the Village traffic consultant to review the
petitioner's traffic analysis and parking demand study. This analysis should be done with the fuel
center and without the fuel center and with the proposed CVS pharmacy and bank across the
street.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked how necessary the fuel center is to this development.
Mr. Hene stated it is very important. He noted that as they move forward, they need to find more
ways to bring more people to their stores. There are so many other options that are more
convenient. What they are finding is that the fuel center is really a catalyst for the store. In this
age it would be the boost they need to insure profitability in the store.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if they would still be before this Commission if the fuel center
were denied.
Mr. Hene stated they would have to think about that.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated he has no doubt Dominick's would comply with all regulations
regarding handicapped spaces. However, he further noted that just because there is compliance
with all standards, it does not necessarily mean they are the most accessible and easiest.
Therefore, he would like to see the handicapped spaces delineated for the next meeting.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated he would also like to see some kind of drawing and site plan
showing the internal circulation, showing lane markings and whatever arrows.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated he would like to see some kind of firm commitment as to hours of
operation. He further stated that if the proposed store is to be a 24-hour store he would like to
have Dominick's show some consideration for the neighbors in terms of delivery times for
trucks.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted that there were some questions raised at the neighborhood meeting
on August 17, 2000 that were not answered. One concern was that this fuel island as a regional
fill up station for their delivery trucks.
Mr. Hene stated absolutely not. They will not even be selling diesel to the public. There is no
way to really get a truck in there.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked if there will trash compactors in the back of the building.
Mr. Hene stated they will have enclosed dumpsters.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked how the dumpsters will be enclosed.
Mr. Hene stated they can do fencing or walls consistent with the architecture of the building.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted the following items needed discussion at the next meeting:
1. Materials to be used for the building
2. Lighting plan
3. Landscape plan
4. Floor plan for the gas station kiosk
5. Cook County Highway Department allowances
6. Data for deviation on the parking ordinance
7. Salient points for the need for the fuel center
8. Circulation issues
9. Analysis on the need for another or larger pharmacy
10. Views of the back of the building
Chairman Ottenheimer stated he would also like to see a more detailed site plan. He stated he
would also like to get a more definite answer to the hours of operation.
Chairman Ottenheimer further noted that the Plan Commission does not generally like to grant
variances unless you can show that what you are doing is, in fact, better and is absolutely
necessary. He noted there has been some concern expressed as to setback requirements,
especially in the back. He further noted that the loss of parking spaces needs to be minimized or
the Commission needs to be convinced that the parking ordinance calls for too much.
Chairman Ottenheimer asked what equipment will be located on the roof and what type of
screening will be on it.
Mr. Hene stated they will have condenser units for refrigeration and HVAC units. They have as
yet specifically proposed screening but they realize they will be required to do so.
Commissioner Smith asked what the noise level of that equipment would be. He asked that this
be addressed at the next meeting. He also asked what could be accomplished for the parking if
the fuel center was cut in half and would it satisfy the need for Dominick's.
Mr. Hene stated they will take a look at that.
Commissioner Panitch asked where the tenants who will be displaced will be moved to.
Mr. Hene stated the Continental Restaurant is moving into a slightly smaller space. Big Apple
Bagels will be moved and the pet shop will be moved. They are all aware that they will be
moved.
Mr. Pfeil noted that when parking is loaded along this type of commercial building, it is
problematic for several reasons. The parking creates problems for emergency and fire access,
and there are conflicting traffic movements if the main movement in and out of the center passes
through rows of parking. He noted that the petitioner needs to re-assess the access plan on
Buffalo Grove Road. There is a lot of danger in the exiting movements in and out of this center
to Buffalo Grove Road on this plan. Similarly, there is a great deal of work to be done on the
parking to justify a variation as large as the petitioner's request. The Plan Commission has never
considered a variation of this magnitude. He stated that the Village's parking standard for a
shopping center is not onerous or out of the ordinary based on generally accepted development
standards.
Mr. Paul Walls, President of Oak Creek Condominium Association, 51 Old Oak Drive, stated he
would like some consideration from the Plan Commission for the properties north of the
proposed plan. 51 Old Oak Drive is within the 50 foot setback with no deliveries there. He also
noted there are times people cut through the access on the north to get around the stop light.
With the increase in traffic from the Dominick's this will create even more cut through traffic.
Ms. Harriet Grant, 101 Old Oak Drive, stated that if there are already parking issues, then
consideration must be given to the fact that the Continental Restaurant is a very busy place and
needs spaces also. She also stated she is not in favor of the gas station.
Mr. Harold Brailov, 51 Old Oak Drive, stated they need some kind of partition on the north side
to divide their property line from the Dominick's parking lot.
Ms. Regina Stahovic, 101 Old Oak Drive, noted the majority of people in the area are senior
citizens who will not be able to walk with all the traffic this development will generate. In
addition, if there are not sufficient parking spaces, senior citizens will have a hard time indeed.
She further noted the Dominick's at Arlington Heights Road and Lake Cook Road is about the
same size, yet this development has many more stores that that one.
Chairman Ottenheimer noted the traffic consultants will hopefully take into account the type of
stores and traffic generated by the other stores.
Mr. Harry Barron, 51 Old Oak Drive, noted delivery trucks will enter the northeast access point
and he would like to have that entrance made one way west only.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil stated the next meeting will be held on October 18, 2000.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS—None
STAFF REPORT—None
NEW BUSINESS—None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Dunn and carried unanimously to
adjourn. Chairman Ottenheimer adjourned the meeting at 9:10 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
LESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair