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2002-11-20 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission Document Type: ❑A e g nda 0 Minutes Meeting ate: 11/20/2002 Type of Meeting: PUBLIC HEARING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION November 20, 2002 Vernon Township, proposed equipment storage facility,west of Community Services Building, 2900 Main Street—Amendment Of a Special Use and Preliminary Plan in the R-7 District Chairman Ottenheimer called the hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Chairman Ottenheimer read the Notice of Public Hearing as published in the Buffalo Grove Daily Herald, explained the procedure to be followed for the public hearing, and swore in all persons who wished to give testimony. Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer Mr. Samuels Mr. Smith Ms. Kenski-Sroka Mr. Khan Mr. Billiter Mr. Stark Commissioners absent: Ms. Bocek Mr. Teplinsky Also present: Mr. Todd Gedville, Vernon Township Mr. Michael DeLapp, J. Michael DeLapp & Associates Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney Mr. Charles Johnson, Village Trustee Mr. DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee Mr. William Kuenkler, Village Engineer Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner Mr. Greg Summers, Associate Village Planner The following exhibits were presented by the petitioner at the public hearing: Exhibit 1: Color drawing of elevations, undated Exhibit 2: Fiberglass Shingle sample Exhibit 3: Vinyl Siding sample Exhibit 4: Overhead photo of site dated August 23, 2002 Trustee Johnson stated that although he is here as the Trustee liaison to the Plan Commission, he will be officially recusing himself from this proceeding since Vernon Township is one of his clients. Mr. Gedville stated Vernon Township is proposing to build a 50 x 46 or a 2,300 square foot building at the southwest corner of the property directly west of the existing community services building. This building would be used for storage and light maintenance of equipment, including storage of the PACE bus, township maintenance pickup truck and a few riding lawnmowers. Light maintenance would include oil changes and brake work on the township vehicles. The township currently has a contract with a waste oil disposal company that removes waste oil from the premises. Other storage located inside the building would include recreation department equipment such as basketballs, baseballs and other sports equipment. Mr. Gedville stated currently the area in question is a storage facility for the highway department. To date they have had no complaints or concerns from the neighbors regarding the storage on this site. They intend to continue storing highway equipment outside of this building, including manhole covers and stormsewer drainage pipes, but to a much lesser degree. Currently the storage in this area is maintained below the fence line and they will be continuing this practice. The plans also include additional landscaping which will act as a barrier between the township and the neighbors to the south. He stated they anticipate the noise in and around the building to be minimal during the summer months. Grass cutting equipment will be dispatched from this facility. Year round activities include dispatch and storage of the PACE bus. This bus would exit in the morning about 7:30-8:00 a.m. and return at 5:30 p.m. The bus is a diesel bus and it will be warmed up inside the building so it will not be idling outside. He stated they do not intend to equip this facility with any major maintenance equipment. All major maintenance will be completed at the township administrative center. Mr. Gedville stated it should be noted there is vehicle traffic to and from this site. This includes non-township maintenance vehicles to service the existing antenna and electrical building servicing the antenna. Also the township highway department currently accesses the existing equipment at this location. They have never had any complaints regarding the traffic at that site. Mr. Gedville noted they did not use any steel siding or roofing. They plan to use vinyl siding and fiberglass shingles to help the structure blend into the surrounding community. Since the October workshop the architect has revised the plans to include features that would give the building a more residential feel such as larger windows and shutters. They have also completed a tree survey of the site. They do not plan to remove any of the existing trees and they are mature trees. The original plan shows four trees to the south of the building to provide additional screening for the neighbors and as the project progresses, they could potentially more depending on the room available. Mr. Gedville stated they have included proposed lighting locations on the plan. The township will use fixtures that minimize light spillover to the neighbors, yet insure the safety and security of this facility. Mr. Gedville stated they feel this is the only appropriate location on the township site. To move the building elsewhere on the site would force the township to lose valuable recreational space. The current orientation of the building places the doors on the east side of building, allowing it direct access from the parking lot to the building. If they relocate the doors to the north, the driveway access would encroach on the playing field to the north, thus rendering the field unusable. Chairman Ottenheimer asked how tall the highway storage building is. Mr. DeLapp stated it is about 35 feet. Commissioner Samuels asked how the proposed elevations have changed from the previous meeting. Mr. Gedville stated they have added shutters, larger windows, and a dormer over the center garage door and the windows on the west side of the building have been expanded. Commissioner Samuels asked if there has been any consideration to adding a gable over the front door on the south elevation. Mr. DeLapp stated there is a loft inside and that is why the dormer is there to give increased area to the loft and to provide light. Commissioner Samuels stated he is thinking of the aesthetics to give the other end of the structure some more interest. Mr. DeLapp stated he does not feel it would contribute anything to the design. It would not have any function. The proposed design has a function to increase the area at the loft area. Commissioner Samuels noted that if you pulled it forward you might even be able to provide some sort of overhang over the door, setbacks permitting. Mr. Pfeil stated they could encroach farther into the south yard than they are doing now. Commissioner Samuels noted if they came out just a couple of feet and added an overhang on the door and a gable over it, it would give it more aesthetics and residential character. Mr. Gedville stated that is something they can work on. Chairman Ottenheimer asked if the shingles are dimensional or shadow line type asphalt shingles. Mr. DeLapp stated they are shadow line. Chairman Ottenheimer asked for discussion on the fencing and landscaping. Mr. Gedville stated currently there is chain link fence, which is an 8-foot fence around the site, which they will repair where necessary. They do not have any additional fencing as part of the plans. Landscaping includes the four trees on the south elevation. There is a gap between two clumps of trees where they are proposing to put the pine trees at and will be about 7 feet. Chairman Ottenheimer asked what the peak hours are considered at this facility. Mr. Gedville stated they are 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., Monday through Friday. Chairman Ottenheimer asked if it is the same in summer and winter. Mr. Gedville noted that in winter they are not operating the grass maintenance equipment and it would probably be a bit quieter in the winter. In summer the noise would consist of lawnmowers exiting the facility in the morning and possibly returning at lunchtime and then exiting out again. Chairman Ottenheimer asked for an estimate of the number of trips made in and out of the facility during peak times. Mr. Gedville stated he estimates the bus to leave in the morning and return at lunch and then leave after lunch and return in the evening. This is if the bus driver decides to eat at this facility. Lawnmower equipment would probably be the same thing. The township maintenance vehicle would leave in the morning and return periodically throughout the day. Commissioner Kenski-Sroka stated she likes the idea of adding a gable over the door because it would give it a more balanced look. Commissioner Billiter agreed that adding a gable would make it right on target. He noted some concerns with some of the storage outside of the facility. Mr. Gedville stated they currently store a lot of farm equipment, stormsewer pipe, manhole covers, and manhole units, which would be cleaned out significantly. Because there are a number of stormsewer projects happening throughout the unincorporated area the highway department would store the pipes there and take them when they are to be used. Commissioner Billiter noted his concern as those things tend to be unsightly and if they were stacked up against the fence on someone's property he would have an issue with that. Mr. Gedville noted the residents have a privacy fence along the north end of their property, which continues around through the Doubletree subdivision. Between that there is a grassy area and then the township fence starts. They would not be any storage up against the residents' fence and they would not store anything in the line of sight of the residences. Commissioner Billiter asked if there is any other place to store those so that they can be out of sight. Mr. Gedville stated they do not really know and it is a question for the highway commissioner, as he does not know what is required to store these. Commissioner Billiter noted that as long as there is not standing water in them and if it just metal and stacked neatly and not left forever, it may be fine. Trustee Glover asked how wide the separation between the residents' fences and the township fence will be and who will maintain it. Mr. Gedville stated the separation is about 18-24 inches and will be maintained by the township. He is not sure exactly that their maintenance department remains it but it has never been a problem. Chairman Ottenheimer asked if they could commit to maintain the area. Mr. Gedville stated yes. Mr. Scott Brumund, 2895 Whispering Oaks Drive, stated there is no storage building nearby that is 35 feet high. There is a highway storage yard, which has a chain link fence, and it is filled with culverts, manholes, and old farm equipment. He stated it was there when he moved in and he, of course, lives with whatever was there. Now they are asking for a change by putting a substantial building in. The nearest building is the community center building, which is about 25-26 feet high. The proposed building is vinyl siding with asphalt shingles. The surrounding homes in the area all have brick face on them. The residents maintain the privacy fence mentioned. When the train station was added they also added a commuter parking area. This has caused some problems with one car coming through the privacy fence into someone's backyard. He noted his concern is that this new proposal will not become a problem as he has problems with them before. The building is not well located and they do own a park site diagonally across the street and a facility such as this could be built backing up against the railroad tracks instead of backing up against homes. That would decrease the amount of traffic going in. There is traffic not only from them but also from the commuter parking. The residents are maintaining their own fences in there and are limited to a 5-foot high fence. The outside storage is not a suitable area and they have not done a good job of cleaning the area up. He stated the township has not been a particularly good neighbor. Mr. David Howard, 2877 Whispering Oaks Drive, stated he agrees with Mr. Brumund. He stated his concern is with the outside storage area which is never maintained well. The concept of putting a facility in this area might be a good idea if it eliminated the terrible conditions that exists now. He is appalled at the notion that this outside storage would continue. He presented pictures of what the storage area looks like now. He further noted there is barbed wire on top of the fence. He stated it is offensive to look at that area. He asked what benefit the Village of Buffalo Grove gets out of this project. He asked why it is necessary to modify the zoning ordinance regarding the lot size. This is a very big building with a very weak design which is not aesthetically pleasing and will not blend into the community. There is no confidence that the township will maintain this property in an appropriate manner. There need to be proper assurances to protect the residents. Mr. Oren Hartman, 2873 Whispering Oaks Drive stated having lived here and seeing how the area is maintained, there is little belief that the township will maintain the area any better than they do now. He stated the south elevation now has trees of 30-40 feet in height. The trees make a huge difference to what the neighborhood will see. The proposed 6-foot and 20 foot trees are far less than what they currently have. He further asked where the manholes would be stored around the building. Mr. Jeff Pozen, 2855 Whispering Oaks Drive, supports the view of his neighbors. He asked why the variance from 15 feet to 23 feet is being allowed. He further stated the use of the term "storage building" is a misnomer, as there will be maintenance work done here. Chairman Ottenheimer asked what the hours of operation would be for the exterior lighting. Mr. DeLapp stated the lights at the service doors will be surface mounted and will be photocell on and time clock off. Normally the time off is 10:30 or 11:00 p.m. Mr. Gedville the Township Administrative Center is what the highway department is currently using to store all of their vehicles. We estimated it is about 35 feet in height and has 14-foot overhead doors with a pitched roof. Mr. DeLapp further noted it has about an 18-20 foot eave height in the back. That portion of the building is 50 feet wide with a 4 and 12 pitch so that it would be 60 '/2 feet on top of the 18, which would be 34 '/z feet high. Mr. Gedville stated the chain link fence is existing and the barbed wire around the cell tower area was put in for the security of the satellite dishes. They have since been removed and they would be open to removing the barbed wire portion of that fence. He further noted there would be no commuter parking at the community services building or at this location. He also noted Metra is in the process of rearranging the commuter parking at the train station. As far as the lights on at the property, he stated they have tried to be good neighbors with the people in the Doubletree subdivision. They have had other people call and inform them that the lights have been on past 10:30 and they then contacted the users of the fields at that time and let them know it was not appropriate. They have also told the neighbors that have questioned them that if the lights are on at an inappropriate time, they have been given a number of the person living at the park across the street who has a key and would shut those lights off. There is no reason for the lights to be on past 10:30 p.m. and they will work with every organization that uses their fields. They agree that the existing condition of the lot needs to be improved which is one of the reasons they chose this location for this building. The outside storage would be minimal around the exterior of the building and low. The height of the building is 23 feet because the doors are 12 feet and they have a pitched roof to try to make it a more residential looking building. There is no way to reduce the height of the building and still have it look like it blends into the community. Mr. DeLapp noted there was some question of the use of horizontal siding. He noted they have photographs of all the buildings around this location and all you see is siding material and therefore they feel they blend in with the area. Although some of the houses may have brick in the front, they do not have brick on three sides. Commissioner Kenski-Sroka asked if there have been any complaints from residents in the surrounding area regarding the outside storage. Mr. Gedville stated nothing that he is aware of The highway commissioner has also not expressed any concerns by the neighbors. Trustee Glover asked if the township will be putting a new fence up. Mr. Gedville stated no and that they would be repairing and improving the chain link fence. Trustee Glover asked if they have considered putting up a board on board fence which might be more pleasing. Mr. Gedville stated they could certainly look into that. Trustee Glover noted it would be better to have a board on board fence considering storage of the manholes and pipes. Mr. Gedville noted that Mr. DeLapp brought up the question of security and whether or not that would be acceptable to the Buffalo Grove Police Department. Trustee Glover asked that this is checked out with the police department. Commissioner Stark asked how tall the structure would be without the slope of the roof. Mr. DeLapp stated they have a 4 and 12 slope which is the recommended minimum slope for a shingled roof so it would not be advisable to make it any lower than that unless you put a flat roof in. That would really be an aesthetic issue. Commissioner Stark asked if the concrete pipes in the storage area would be stored here. Mr. Gedville stated there will be some storage, but minimal. Mr. DeLapp noted that in order to keep the footprint of the building as small as possible and still have the loft area so as not to expand the building, the 23 feet in height is necessary. Mr. Gedville asked what the average height of a 2-story home in the area would be. Mr. Pfeil stated that under zoning the homes could be 35 feet in height. Mr. Brumund noted the 35 foot tall highway building the township is referring to is not adjacent to this. It is on the other side of the park by the township center. If they wanted to put this building next to that one it would be fine. Mr. Gedville stated that any other location would eliminate the valuable recreational area for the township. He further noted there is absolutely no room on the park site across the street for this building. There being no further comments or questions from anyone else present, Chairman Ottenheimer closed the public hearing at 8:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: LESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission Document Type: 0 A e g nda 0 Minutes Meeting ate: 11/20/2002 Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting REGULAR MEETING BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION November 20, 2002 Vernon Township, proposed equipment storage facility,west of Community Services Building, 2900 Main Street—Amendment of a Special Use and Preliminary Plan in the B-7 District Emmerich Park East,Amendment of Special Use concerning use of a Public address system in the R-3 District—Workshop #1 Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 8:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers, Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer Mr. Samuels Mr. Smith Ms. Kenski-Sroka Mr. Khan Mr. Billiter Mr. Stark Commissioners absent: Ms. Bocek Mr. Teplinsky Also present: Mr. Todd Gedville, Vernon Township Mr. Mike DeLapp, J. Michael DeLapp & Associates Mr. Mike Rylko, Buffalo Grove Park District Mr. Bob Wagner, Bill's Youth Football League Mr. William Raysa, Village Attorney Mr. Charles Johnson, Village Trustee Ms. DeAnn Glover, Village Trustee Mr. William Kuenkler, Village Engineer Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner Mr. Greg Summers, Associate Village Planner APPROVAL OF MINUTES Moved by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka, seconded by Commissioner Khan to approve the minutes of the regular meeting of September 4, 2002. All commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion passed unanimously with Commissioners Smith and Stark abstaining. COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORT Commissioner Billiter attended the Village Board meeting on November 18, 2002 and stated there was nothing brought up for the Plan Commission's attention. VERNON TOWNSHIP, PROPOSED EQUIPMENT STORAGE FACILITY, WEST OF COMMUNITY SERVICES BUILDING, 2900 MAIN STREET — AMENDMENT OF A SPECIAL USE AND PRELIMINARY PLAN IN THE R-7 DISTRICT Moved by Commissioner Samuels, seconded by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka to recommend approval to the Village Board of a petition to the Village of Buffalo Grove for amendment of the Special Use in the R-7 District to allow construction of an accessory building for equipment storage with the following variation: ZONING ORDINANCE— Section 17.32.030.A. (to allow a height of 23 feet instead of 15 feet for an accessory building), for a proposed 2,300 square foot building, pursuant to the testimony produced at the public hearing and the documents and exhibits introduced thereof and subject to: 1. Further refinement of the exterior elevation of the building to the satisfaction of the building department, taking into account the recommendations of the Plan Commission regarding possible additional architectural elements and embellishments. 2. Petitioner agreeing to replace the existing chain link fence with a board on board fence of at least 5 feet in height, remove the existing barbed wire from the property and making the area more aesthetically pleasing. 3. The continuing obligation and representation of the petitioner to maintain the area between the two fences. Commissioner Samuels stated he has some concern with this large of a building so close to the residents and feels it is almost a misnomer to call this an accessory building. He asked if it is the Special Use amendment that permits more than one accessory building on a zoning lot. Mr. Pfeil stated he does not think there is a limit on the number of accessory buildings. Basically the smaller antenna building is really for storage of electrical equipment that supports the antenna. Commissioner Samuels stated he is not sure if the need for this facility exceeds the imposition on the community that it will create. Chairman Ottenheimer stated he agrees with Commissioner Samuels. He is bothered by the fact of testimony that Vernon Township is not being a good neighbor. Unfortunately the Plan Commission is not an enforcement board and he urged the residents to take any problems with the maintenance of this site to the proper authorities. Commissioner Billiter stated he has no problem with the building per se. He feels it will blend in with the neighborhood and the size does not really bother him. However, he noted he is appalled after seeing the pictures if the storage property and stressed that something should be done to clean the area up and maintain it. Commissioner Samuels noted that this building does not comply with several things that are now being discussed in the appearance committee and he might feel more comfortable with this if it was significantly improved in appearance. Chairman Ottenheimer called for a vote on the motion and the vote was as follows: AYES: Smith, Kenski-Sroka, Khan, Billiter, Ottenheimer NAPES: Samuels, Stark ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bocek, Teplinsky The motion passed 5 to 2. EMMERICH PARK EAST, AMENDMENT OF SPECIAL USE CONCERNING USE OF A PUBLIC ADDRESS SYSTEM IN THE R-3 DISTRICT—WORKSHOP#1 Mr. Rylko stated he is here on behalf of the Buffalo Grove Park District to request the number of days of use of the public address system for Bill's Youth Football Association. The request is for 8 regular season weekends and 2 playoff weekends. The PA system is not used for play by play description of a game. It is used to play the national anthem, announce the name of players and other persons involved in each game, report the scores at the end of each quarter and to make special emergency announcements. Approximately 5-10 minutes of actual talk time on the PA system is used during a game that lasts about 90 minutes. The old system is a 30-watt horn type projector with a solid state reinforcement 100-watt amplifier. The upgrade system is a 200 watt one speaker system. The key factor to approving the ordinance is that any system used shall not produce a sound exceeding a level of 70 decibels at the property line. 70 decibels is the restriction set forth in the existing ordinance and is also the acceptable standard. This standard is also agreeable with Mr. Gillmeister, one of the neighbors and the park board. Bill's Youth Football is an outstanding program that produces the majority of stars at both of the local high schools. Bob Wagner, President of Bill's Youth Football Association, stated the program has grown 2 '/2 times its size in the last four years. He stated they are a 100 percent volunteer organization and are self funded and supported. They have been a member in good standing with the Chamber of Commerce forever and follow park district guidelines and keep the field immaculate during their 10 weeks of usage during the season. Mr. Wagner stated in 1997 a PA system was used at all home games. One of their supporters purchased a new PA system for them because the old one was distorted. The new PA is a 200-watt, one-speaker system and they have used it for all home games since the 2000 season. The PA is used only for 5-10 minutes per game. Each game lasts approximately 90 minutes. He announces the players, sometimes play the national anthem and announce scores at the quarters. Mr. Wagner stated in 1999 they had 21 home games and this year they had 44 home games. That means the PA usage for the entire 2002 44 game season would at worst be 440 minutes for the full year if he used it for every game. The term full usage is not all day or weekend or all year. It would be a maximum of 10 minutes per game. He stated they are not asking for anything more than they have been accustomed to. The PA is an integral part of football. The league by-laws ask that all programs have a PA system. Football is an emotional game for the players to hear their names, national anthem and announcements. It makes them feel they are part of a program and proud of their accomplishments. Mr. Wagner reviewed the programs that have PA's within the league. 14 of the 15 programs do have a PA system in place. In the last six years of service to the community they have operated a PA system to everyone's satisfaction except for two complaints. On two complaints police were called to the home games attended by Buffalo Grove parents and parents from other communities causing great embarrassment. The new PA was used for two full seasons until the first ever complaint was registered on the last day of the season in October 2001. He noted they have a petition with 569 signatures, the majority of which are Buffalo Grove residents. That is more than 18 times the number produced by the opposition at a recent Village Board meeting on September 23rd. Bill's football never made an attempt to go door to door to disturb the neighbors to get the petition signed. The petition was out only at the field where people were asked to sign. Mr. Wagner stated that Bill's Football asks for support for the request of an update to an ordinance that is discriminating to a youth program. This ordinance was unknowingly violated for five years without complaint. The Bill's program represents the Village of Buffalo Grove and 16 visiting towns in a first class way. He noted they ask for support of a program that asks for nothing of the community except to provide for the children and a program that does not cost the taxpayers anything and offers every child in Buffalo Grove an opportunity to be part of something productive, safe and keep them off the streets. Mr. Wagner stated the barrage of e-mails from some of the Buffalo Grove residents state many issues that are irrelevant to the PA system. Most important to note is that the BGRA baseball league and Bill's Youth Football are two completely separate entities and are not affiliated. Many of the statements in the e-mails are in regards to the BGRA relative to overflow parking which has never been an issue for Bill's and have nothing to do with the issues of this PA system or Bill's Football. The Bill's are good for the community and they have always done what they can to be a good neighbor. Chairman Ottenheimer stated the Plan Commission is not an enforcement board and has no power to issue sanctions or citations. He stated the commission is fully aware of the violations of the ordinance that have taken place. He stated he wants to discuss possible alternative sites to play the games, which in theory might even lead to a possible expanded use of the PA system. Busch Grove Park comes to mind because it is a vast area and the impact on the neighborhood in that location would be minimal. He stated he understands the attachment to the existing location, but he sees the location as a potential traffic hazard as cars drive by on Lake Cook Road. Commissioner Smith asked for a review of the other districts using PA systems. Mr. Rylko stated Mr. Wagner already responded and noted that 14 of the 15 communities do have PA systems. Mr. Wagner stated the only town without an active PA is Lombard. He noted there is not a field in any of these communities that does not have homes adjacent. He further noted the Bill's built the second level of the park district building at this field for storage for the park district at their cost. They have a complete irrigation system in the field, which they installed. You cannot just throw a football field up in a park. He noted their concession stand is there, the bathrooms are there and storage for all the field amenities are there. This is a top-notch facility and they do not have interference with traffic. He noted he does not think the residents have any issues with that. He feels it is ludicrous to change a perfect field that is kept immaculate by them. He noted they lease the building for free from the park district but they pay for all the utilities and upkeep and field striping. Commissioner Smith asked which direction the speaker is now pointed at. Mr. Wagner stated the speaker is on the balcony-facing northeast towards St. Mary's. He noted the crowd noise is significantly louder than the PA system. Commissioner Smith asked how much use the PA system is given and if there is ever any running commentary. Mr. Wagner stated they have never done play by play. Of the fields that have PA's, half of them do full game play by play. He stated he announces the kids before the game, the scores, and touchdown if someone scores and at half time sometimes the cheerleaders are announced. Commissioner Smith asked what the normal operating hours are. Mr. Wagner stated the games would be 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Saturday and/or Sunday at the latest. Commissioner Smith asked how the lack of a PA system is detrimental to the program. Mr. Wagner stated PA systems are part of football. It is expected of the league to have one. Without it, it decreases the ambiance and atmosphere of the game. Commissioner Billiter stated he agrees with the use of a PA system at the higher levels of high school or college just to overcome the crowd noise. Announcements here are being made only to about 100 or 200 parents and the intercom system is really for them and it will not kill the game for the kids. He asked how many feet or decibels are allowed for a PA system. Mr. Pfeil indicated that the neither the Municipal Code nor the Zoning Ordinance have specific sound level standards for public address systems. Emmerich East is subject to a Special Use ordinance approved in 1992 with specific decibel standards. He noted that the Plan Commission could recommend modification of these standards as part of the amendment of the Special Use. Commissioner Billiter asked why the PA system was upgraded to a louder system. Mr. Rylko stated the PA system was an outdated system. He noted they are not looking for additional sound amplification. The existing ordinance does have a quantitative formula of 70 decibels at the property line. He stated they will be glad to adhere to that and is not an issue. They have already tested the field and found they are far less than 70 decibels. He stated they are looking to increase the number of weekends that are limited on the existing ordinance to basically three weekends a year. He noted the crowd noise, the cheerleading noise and vocal noise is louder than the PA system. Commissioner Samuels noted that back in 1992 they tested the PA system and it can be heard in the neighborhood. Mr. Wagner stated they have 44 home games over an 8-week season and they can be anytime over those 8 weeks. Some weekends there will be no games and some will be 2 games. Commissioner Samuels asked if the only thing being asked for is additional days. Mr. Rylko stated yes. It would be 7 regular season weekends and 2 playoffs. Commissioner Samuels asked when the season starts and ends. Mr. Wagner stated the league has always started either the last week in July or the first week in August. This year they moved the season up one week because the championships have been moved around. Commissioner Samuels asked what kind of enforcement is used on this issue. Mr. Pfeil stated the goal is to bring it back into compliance with the ordinance. There would not be any fines or things like that. Commissioner Samuels stated that an ordinance with no teeth to it or no penalties is ridiculous. Mr. Rylko noted an alternative idea would be to drop the special use of Emmerich East, which is the only park that has this requirement. A PA system can be used in any other park without this type of restriction. There is no restriction to music at the lawn chair lyrics at Willow Stream Park or the Village Green concerts. Commissioner Samuels stated he does not really see why this whole ordinance is necessary. Commissioner Smith asked if the ordinance calls for a timeframe. Chairman Ottenheimer noted it is noon to 4:30 p.m. on Sundays and 9:00 to 5:30 p.m. on Saturdays. Mr. Rylko stated the existing ordinance is 9:00 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. on Saturdays and 12:00 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. on Sundays. Mr. Wagner stated the only change in hours they are asking for to the old ordinance was for one homecoming weekend at which the younger teams play at 9:00 a.m. on Sunday. Chairman Ottenheimer stated he disagrees with Commissioner Samuels' comments. The fact that there has been no enforcement of the ordinance does not mean we should not have an ordinance. He noted he is still not convinced this is the ideal location. He stated he would like to see a rough feasibility study for alternative locations and costs for the games. Secondly, he would like to see more specifics of the other communities and the closeness of the residences. Commissioner Kenski-Sroka stated she would also like to know what hours they use their system. She stated she has a problem with the PA system being used on a Sunday morning and could not support it for that reason. Mr. Rylko stated the sound system being used is softer than the traffic on Lake Cook Road. Trustee Glover noted she agrees with Chairman Ottenheimer about looking at Busch Grove Park as an alternative. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE Mr. Pfeil stated the next regular meeting would be December 4, 2002. PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS Mr. John Teckorius, 199 Raupp Boulevard, stated for the past 10 years he has called the police at least 10 times with complaints. The volume has been measured at 78 decibels in the presence of a police officer two years after this ordinance was passed. The updated system was not approved under any ordinance and should not even be there. He noted there is a well on the property, which is sucking water out of the creek, which is a violation. He noted there are not enough toilets and the 5-10 minutes per day is inaccurate and even if it is, it is very disturbing to the residents. Mr. Gary Gillmeister stated the original request for the PA system in 1992 was to make the field eligible for playoff games. He stated the reasons for requesting the PA were as follows: 1. The PA system is an integral part of the football program, which we do not believe to be true. 2. The PA system makes this a quality program. However, we fail to understand this as it does not relate to or deal with the essentials or principal of the game. 3. The PA system adds to the ambiance of the game. However, we feel it adds to the beeping of horns as team and parents are entering the neighborhood, adds to the car alarms, to the crowds cheering, and to the noise and continuous intrusions that the residents are subjected to. 4. The ordinance is outdated. The ordinance was written with guidelines and rules to balance the concerns of the residents, the desires of the BGYFL and a request from the park district. The numbers of participants today do not reflect the teams being played against and activity has reason on some weekends and weeknight to nearly every weekend and every night. Mr. Gillmeister stated he feels the ordinance was written with the foresight to address most of the concerns they still have today. It seems the amendments are being requested to expand the number of days for use. The park district's inability to govern the activities with their own ordinances prior to 1992 is the primary reason for the 1992 ordinance. Through the years the park district has either failed to present the use of these rules to the organizations or just simply failed to enforce them. The park district also violated the ordinance by installing this new hardware. The BGYFL has requested action to include special notification to be added to the list so officials can continue to announce when concession stands are open to pick up litter. He stated it was his understanding that the concession stand is open during every game and does not see why this has to be announced. Secondly, picking up litter is a responsibility just as is adherence to the ordinance. In summary, both the park district and the organizations that utilize the fields at Emmerich Park have failed in their responsibilities and agreements to adhere to the guidelines and rules stated within the ordinance. This should be reason enough to deny any further request for further benefit. Full time amplification of these events would be a further intrusion to an already overburdened neighborhood, which is a greater problem than any benefit that could possibly be enjoyed by this franchise. He asked that the original spirit of the ordinance be maintained which is to limit the use of any amplified device and special events at either parcel. STAFF REPORT—None NEW BUSINESS—None ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka, seconded by Commissioner Smith and carried unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Ottenheimer adjourned the meeting at 9:40 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: LESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair