2005-06-15 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan Commission
Document Type: 0 A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 06/15/2005
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
June 15, 2005
Jacobs Homes, proposed Villas at Hidden Lake, Rezoning to
R-4 P.U.D. for twelve single-family detached homes,
Northeast corner of Buffalo Grove Road/Deerfield Parkway
Workshop #2
Estates at Hidden Lake (Deerfield Parkway west of Hidden Lake
Drive)—Final Plat of Subdivision
Fairview Estates (Weiland Road south of Pauline Avenue)—
Final Plat of Subdivision
Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer
Mr. Smith
Ms. Bocek
Ms. Kenski-Sroka
Mr. Khan
Mr. Stark
Mr. Cohn
Mr. Podber
Commissioners absent: Mr. Teplinsky
Also present: Mr. John Green, Groundwork, Ltd.
Mr. Steve Goodman, Jacobs Homes
Mr. Richard Kuenkler, Village Engineer
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES—None
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS -None
ESTATES AT HIDDEN LAKE(DEERFIELD PARKWAY WEST OF HIDDEN LAKE
DRIVE) —FINAL PLAT OF SUBDIVISION
Moved by Commissioner Khan, seconded by Commissioner Smith to recommend approval of
the Final Plat of Subdivision for the Estates at Hidden Lake.
All Commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion passed 7 to 0 with Chairman
Ottenheimer abstaining.
FAIRVIEW ESTATES (WEILAND ROAD SOUTH OF PAULINE AVENUE)—FINAL PLAT
OF SUBDIVISION
Moved by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka, seconded by Commissioner Smith to approve the Final
Plat of Subdivision for the Fairview Estates.
All Commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion passed 8 to 0.
JACOBS HOMES, PROPOSED VILLAS AT HIDDEN LAKE, REZONING TO R-4 P.U.D.
FOR TWELVE SINGLE-FAMILY DETACHED HOMES, NORTHEAST CORNER OF
BUFFALO GROVE ROAD/DEERFIELD PARKWAY—WORKSHOP 92
Chairman Ottenheimer stated he will recuse himself from this discussion as he is under contract
with Jacobs Homes at the Estates of Hidden Lake and wants to avoid any appearance of conflict
or impropriety. He therefore turned the meeting over the Commissioner Smith.
Mr. Green stated there was a question raised at the last meeting as to whether or not the sidewalk
system already exists. He noted the aerial photo does show the bikepath exists adjacent to the
property on the west and the sidewalk adjacent to the property on the south. The walkways are
also in existence on the opposite sides of the streets. He noted it is important to note that
Deerfield Parkway is in the process of beginning its preparation for its roadway expansion which
will take place this year or next year and will take Deerfield Parkway from a two-lane road to a
four-lane road.
Mr. Green stated the last meeting had questions on the site plan relative to relationships and
arrangements of buildings, particularly in overlaps and corners and also relationships of some
other elements on the site as well as questions on ingress and egress to the site. The new plan
has made a number of adjustments. The most notable one is the elimination of the right angles
between units 3 and 4 and 9 and 10 and they have now wound the buildings in a more traditional
fashion around the cul-de-sac and curves in the roads. The way they were able to accomplish
this was by taking the envelopes and reducing the size from 43 feet by 63 feet to 41 feet by 60
feet. By doing that and by shifting some of the elements on the site, they were able to get the
spacing that was necessary in order to have the flow happen around and through the site. As part
of that they have also cleaned up the driveway confluences that had existed in the corners. They
have pulled buildings 3 and 4 and 9 and 10 back and let them curve gently and joined the
driveways into one driveway that is 14 feet wide coming out. Since it is a P.U.D. and they are
dealing with envelopes instead of lots, they are able to do that to reduce the impact onto the
street and still provide the necessary flows and vehicle storage on the lots.
Mr. Green further stated they have also shifted building 12 to the north and building 1 to the
south so that they have increased the staggering between the envelopes and now all of the
envelopes keep stepping. He stated they were aware that the school district had a desire for a 96
foot radius on its cul-de-sacs if buses were needed to come into the development, which will
probably be necessary here. Therefore, they have made the 96-foot outside radius on the
cul-de-sac. The school district had also indicated that the minimum width they require is 18 feet
for the road. The Village requirement is 24 feet. However, they are showing 31 feet. They are
also showing an island in the middle which is 27 feet in diameter and that way they break up the
massive amount of paving that would happen if it were a solid circle.
Mr. Green stated the key piece of information to all of this is access to the site. He noted there
have been meetings with the county at which Mr. Kuenkler was present. The county has now
agreed to permit a full intersection. He noted they are directed and required to construct a right
in, right out at the beginning of the project because this work on Deerfield Road must be
completed before they can make the adjustments to their intersection. When the Deerfield Road
project is complete they will remove the porkchop and put in the left turn lane and create the full
intersection.
Mr. Green noted at the last meeting he had indicated there would be no difference between R-3
and R-4 zoning other than they believe the R-4 zoning was a more appropriate underlying zoning
considering the stuff around it. He noted he still has it listed as an R-4 P.U.D. and noted that
front yards, rear yards and perimeter setbacks do not change from R-3 to R-4. What does change
is the building separations of 16 feet versus 14 feet. So if the underlying zoning were R-3 they
would ask for a variation on the building separation from 16 feet to 14 feet. He noted they are
certainly amenable to whatever the desire for the underlying zoning is and whatever the greatest
comfort level is for the Village.
Mr. Green stated they have created a preliminary engineering plan and water is directly across
the street on Buffalo Grove Road. The stormsewer is easy as two sides abut an existing
detention facility. The sanitary sewer would come from the west between two lots. There is an
existing sanitary sewer on Lockwood Drive at an existing easement between two houses. He
stated they did look at all the options and discussed same with Mr. Kuenkler and came to the
conclusion that this was the best option to pursue and that is the option they would follow.
Mr. Green stated they looked at the detention to make sure the volume opportunity was there and
it is. They would be working on the bank of the lake, particularly in the western lake at the north
end of their site in order to create the additional volume that would be necessary to service the
site. Ultimately, they will be moving the extension to the detention further from Buffalo Grove
Road and expanding the wet part of the lake which they feel will look best, rather than creating a
gradual slope. That would be consistent with the program that exists there. There is an area
behind buildings 4 through 9 where something may need to occur for additional volume. There
is a wetland on the site below the front yards of buildings 8, 9 and 10 which would have to be
mitigated. He stated they do not yet know the volumes involved. They expect to have that
information fairly soon and they have held area for that to be accomplished on the site.
Finally, Mr. Green noted that the boxes are envelopes and not buildings. The buildings
themselves are proposed to be 2,400 to 2,500 square feet and there are two floor plans. Both
floor plans are three bedroom plans with a fourth bedroom option. Villa A has the traditional
layout of all three bedrooms upstairs and Villa B has two bedrooms on the upper floor and the
master bedroom suite on the first floor. They believe that both of those would be desirable to
individuals or couples or families looking for houses in this area and the yard area all part of the
association. Behind each one of the units would be an area 18 feet deep by 41 feet which is a
limited common space. It is still open area but that is the spacing they could put their patio or
deck. They would be permitted to have a fence around that area. They would stipulate that
fence needed to be like an ornamental iron open fence because they do not want to impact the
feel and flavor of the site. That stipulation would be part of the creation of the common space
limitation. It would require a gate because it would be required to be maintained at the same
level as the rest of the site by the unit owners or maintained by the association at the same level.
There would be a variety of elevations to ensure they are meeting the requirements for the
monotony code standards.
Mr. Green stated there a tree survey existing with the previously presented inventory. The tree
inventory was done in 1998 and all of the trees on the inventory are not specimen trees as
defined by the Village outline for specimen trees. There are some trees along the north part of
the site that are far enough away from any buildings and are in areas where they do not need to
change any grading because of detention or wetland mitigation and they have asked their
landscape architect to start working directly with the Village Forestry staff to see what is
valuable to save not by specimen type to be maintained. There is also the possibility of doing
that along from the south line up to building 9. However, he cannot commit to that until they
know what is required to happen with the wetland mitigation. There is certainly value in
maintaining large specimens where they exist if they can be appropriately isolated, appropriately
protected and distanced.
Mr. Green noted that each of the units would also have their own landscaping that complements
the landscape plan.
Commissioner Khan asked why the full access must wait until the improvements on Deerfield
Parkway are complete.
Mr. Kuenkler stated the Deerfield Parkway project is at the late stages in being scheduled for
bidding and construction, and there is really no opportunity to make major changes to the plans
at this point in the project. There might be an opportunity to make some changes during the
construction phase.
Commissioner Khan asked if the Village will hold the letter of credit or some other security to
make sure that the right-in, right-out in driveway is constructed in the future.
Mr. Kuenkler stated yes.
Commissioner Khan stated an update to the traffic report will be necessary as it still refers to
only a right-in, right-out access to Buffalo Grove Road.
Mr. Green stated he has not yet asked for that update until tonight's feedback was received.
Commissioner Khan asked if there is any other way to re-orient the driveways for buildings 3
and 4 and buildings 9 and 10.
Mr. Green said the respective driveways can be separated, which was shown on the previous
plan reviewed at the first workshop. The impression he had from the previous meeting was that
they wanted to minimize the curb cut opportunities and so he combined the driveways. He noted
they can make the combination at the end be 16 or 18 feet so you still have a double car width
there rather than having two twelve or two fourteen foot driveways. That would bypass any of
those concerns and still minimize the curb cuts and impacts onto the road system. There is also
enough room to flip the driveway on unit 4 which will bring it out adjacent to unit 3 and have
two twelve foots. Either way works or whichever way the Commission feels they would like
would work.
Commissioner Khan stated he will leave that to the ART committee.
Commissioner Cohn asked what caused Lake County to change their mind on the full access
drive.
Mr. Green stated the power of the Village was a great help.
Commissioner Cohn asked if there is potential for a future causeway or bridge connecting the
development to the property on the east side of the stormwater pond.
Mr. Green stated no. He stated they have bent the right-of-way to the lot line. This provides an
access point.
Commissioner Cohn asked if the developer had ever considered connecting these two
development sites across the stormwater pond. .
Mr. Green stated yes. However, the opportunity to cross connect does not exist because this site
sits up about 4 feet due to the sanitary sewer depth and they would need to continue to raise the
site as they move to the west. It would become so exaggerated that it would not work.
Commissioner Cohn noted that it could not be done if trying to connect the sanitary sewer from
the east side of the water to the west side of the water. However, now the proposal is to run the
sanitary sewer from the west side of Buffalo Grove Road east to the Villas site. If sanitary sewer
is not a constraint, he asked why it is not possible to build a bridge between the Villas and the
Estates at Hidden Lakes.
Mr. Green stated that they would then have to continue to raise the site.
Commissioner Cohn asked Mr. Kuenkler why a roadway cannot be connected across the pond
from the east side to the west side and how does the sanitary sewer have anything to do with that
if the sanitary is coming from the west side to the east side to service the site.
Mr. Kuenkler said that sanitary sewer service is not the controlling factor in terms of the
feasibility of building a road across the pond.
Commissioner Cohn stated the reason he is raising these questions is that he does not like the
proposed design isolating the Villas site from adjacent neighborhoods and providing only one
street route for entering and exiting the development. He said that he is not convinced that the
Villas site can't be connected to the neighborhood to the east across the pond.
Commissioner Cohn asked who regulates the wetland area.
Mr. Green stated Lake County regulates this wetland and they already have a letter from the
Army Corp of Engineers indicating that it is not under their jurisdiction.
Commissioner Cohn asked what is envisioned for the '/z acre wetland mitigation.
Mr. Green stated they do not know yet. This has permanent water in it and it is yet to be
determined if that water is part of the wetland or an isolated water area. That has significant
impact on the amount of wetland. He noted he only knows that there is going to be a wetland to
be mitigated but does not know yet the extent of it.
Commissioner Stark asked if the wetland would need to be removed or just increased detention.
Mr. Green stated they would have to create a new wetland either on the site, adjacent to the site
or buy into another wetland area.
Commissioner Stark asked if the connection to the sanitary sewer on Lockwood would require
the closing of Buffalo Grove Road for a portion of time.
Mr. Green stated it would have to be done under the road.
Commissioner Stark stated he also feels uncomfortable with the driveways for buildings 3 and 4
and buildings 9 and 10 being combined. He asked if the future expansion of Buffalo Grove Road
to four lanes would be affected by the proposed plan for this site.
Mr. Green stated they are dedicating all the right-of-way that is necessary for adjacent road
improvements.
Commissioner Podber stated he comes up with a density of about four units per acre. He noted
Mr. Green had stated the density was 2.7 units per acre. He said he thinks there are too many
building envelopes for the amount of available space, and this may be part of the driveway
design issue concerning the combined driveways for buildings 3 and 4 and buildings 9 and 10.
Mr. Green stated the he got the feeling from the last meeting that the combined driveways were
an acceptable design solution. He stated the driveways do not need to be combined; he only
joined them because he thought the Commission wanted to minimize the curb cuts on the
cul-de-sac.
Commissioner Podber asked about the proposed density.
Mr. Green stated that the density is based on the gross area of the site. He noted he has provided
two density numbers and both have a purpose. Usually you are used to having the right of ways
in the middle of the site but in this case the right of ways are on the perimeter of the site. What
he has done is give both the gross acreage of the site, which is the 5-acre parcel his client must
buy, and then deduct the area to be dedicated for Buffalo Grove Road and Deerfield Parkway
right-of-way. He noted that the second density figure is based on the site area minus dedication
of right-of-way for adjacent roads that are not part of the development site. The fact of the matter
is that the density for this R-4 plan is consistent with the densities of R-4 developments
throughout the Village.
Commissioner Podber said the density does not seem to be out of line with other developments,
but 10 units may look better than 12 in terms of the overall site plan. Fewer units may alleviate
the concerns that Commissioners have expressed about the combined driveways.
Commissioner Podber requested the calculations concerning the projected stormwater runoff and
detention volume. He said he agrees that it would be possible to connect these two subdivisions
with a road. He noted there is substantial cost involved but the engineering acumen exists to send
a road across the manmade detention. It is possible to grade and fill as needed to construct the
road. However, it would be expensive and would interfere with beginning work on the
development to the east. As far as he can tell, these are the reasons that the developer does not
want to connect the two developments.
Commissioner Cohn stated he realizes that the cost issue is probably the reason for
non-connection and would delay development of the approved subdivision to the east. He further
stated he does not like designs that do not connect neighborhoods, and he is not convinced that
these two neighborhoods can't be connected. Sanitary sewer design does not seem to be
constraint; the issues seem to be convenience of the development approval process and
developer cost.
Mr. Green stated he will look into this although it is not a matter of just the two items mentioned
by Commissioner Cohn. He noted that if you are going to modify the lake it means filling in a
considerable amount of existing volume in the current detention facility. That volume would
have to be replaced with capacity somewhere else in the drainage and stormwater storage system
serving these properties and adjacent properties.
Commissioner Bocek reiterated items from Mr. Pfeil's memo noted that:
1. Provide a layout showing this particular development if it were to stay R-3 with the
standard zoning setbacks.
Mr. Green stated if this proposal was straight zoning with regular lots, it would have 8 units.
2. Provide an updated tree survey since the existing inventory is five years old.
Mr. Green stated he is still looking for the old tree survey to know where to begin.
Commissioner Stark asked if the Village has regulations concerning bridges for vehicular traffic
or if standards would need to be developed.
Mr. Kuenkler said there are standards for bridge construction, but these standards are not
included in the Village's Development Ordinance. He noted that the road in Town Center
connecting to Lake Cook Road is basically a bridge, and it was designed in accordance with
accepted engineering standards.
Vice Chairman Smith asked if this project has been sent to the Fire Department and Police
Department.
Mr. Pfeil said the plans have been sent to the Police Department and Fire Department. He noted
that the Fire Department will accept the basic layout of the subdivision if a full access is
provided on Buffalo Grove Road. The Police Department has not commented at this point.
Vice Chairman Smith asked if the School Districts have been asked for comments concerning
the adequacy of the cul-de-sac to accommodate bus maneuvers.
Mr. Pfeil stated he sent both District 125 and District 102 the plans for both the previous
workshop and the current workshop, and he has not received any comments so far.
Mr. Green stated that what is represented on this plan is what the District 102 requested for the
cul-de-sac on the plan for Whispering Lake Estates. He said that the Village Engineer shared the
sketch that the school district provided concerning the turning radius and pavement width, and
the proposed design for the Villas cul-de-sac is based on this information.
Commissioner Khan commented that minimizing the curb cuts by reducing the number of
buildings from 12 to 10 is acceptable, but he does not like the proposed site plan layout. He
noted that the elimination of one or two buildings provides an opportunity to improve the overall
layout.
Mr. Green stated that by flipping buildings 4 and 9 he can provide separated driveways.
Vice Chairman Smith noted another workshop is necessary and the following items need to be
addressed:
1. Updated traffic study based on the full access to Buffalo Grove Road
2. Possible connection to the development to the east
3. An updated tree survey
4. A revised site plan based on the Commission's comments concerning driveways
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE
Mr. Pfeil said the next meeting is scheduled for July 6, 2005.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS
Mr. Jerry Goldman, 1203 Westchester Court, asked if there is going to be area added to the
stormwater pond to accommodate the proposed Villas at Hidden Lake development. Does this
development include engineering studies for increased stormwater retention?
Mr. Kuenkler stated the proposal is to enlarge the volume by partially regrading the development
site and Village owned property, including the existing pond.
STAFF REPORT—None
NEW BUSINESS—None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka, seconded by Commissioner Bocek and carried
unanimously to adjourn. Vice Chairman Smith adjourned the meeting at 8:33 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
ERIC SMITH, Vice Chairman