2006-04-19 - Plan Commission - Minutes Board or Commission: ❑ Plan commission
Document Type: 0 A e
g nda 0 Minutes
Meeting ate: 04/19/2006
Type of Meeting: ❑ Regular Meeting
REGULAR MEETING
BUFFALO GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
April 19, 2006
Villas of Chestnut Ridge—Plat of Subdivision
Discussion of Village Comprehensive Plan —RTAP/TOD Project
Review of Existing Conditions Report
Chairman Ottenheimer called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Village Council Chambers,
Buffalo Grove Municipal Building, 50 Raupp Boulevard, Buffalo Grove, Illinois.
Commissioners present: Chairman Ottenheimer
Mr. Smith
Ms. Bocek
Ms. Kenski-Sroka
Mr. Khan
Mr. Stark
Mr. Cohn
Commissioners absent: Mr. Teplinsky
Mr. Podber
Also present: Mr. Barry Gore, Camiros
Mr. Les Pollock, Camiros
Mr. John Lynch, U.S. Equities Realty
Ms. Heather Tabbert, RTA
Trustee Steven Trilling
Mr. William Brimm, Assistant Village Manager
Ms. Ghida Neukirch, Assistant Village Manager
Mr. Robert Pfeil, Village Planner
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commission Kenski-Sroka to approve the minutes
of the regular meeting of March 15, 2006. All Commissioners were in favor of the motion and
the motion passed unanimously with Commissioner Cohn abstaining.
COMMITTEE AND LIAISON REPORTS—None
VILLAS OF CHESTNUT RIDGE—PLAT OF SUBDIVISION
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Khan to approve the Plat of
Subdivision of the Villas of Chestnut Ridge.
Commissioner Stark asked if this is the same plan that was approved nearly two years ago.
Mr. Pfeil stated yes.
All commissioners were in favor of the motion and the motion was approved by all.
The motion passed 7 to 0.
DISCUSSION OF VILLAGE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN— RTAP/TOD PROJECT — REVIEW
EXISTING CONDITIONS REPORT
Ms. Neukirch reviewed a status report of where the Village is at on the update of the
Comprehensive Plan and most specifically the transit oriented development study project. She
noted the Comprehensive Plan as the principle planning document for the Village is one of the
most important projects the Village does as a community.
Ms. Neukirch stated last year the Village received a grant from the RTA to hire a land use and
planning consultant to look at the feasibility for planning transit oriented development projects
around the Buffalo Grove train station and the Prairie View train station. She stated the Village
issued a request for proposals and then the Village Board approved a contract with Camiros to
serve as that land use and planning consultant to coordinate this project.
Ms. Neukirch stated the Village held stakeholder meetings in January consisting of one for the
Buffalo Grove area and also the Prairie View area to get feedback from different property
owners and business interests and residents. The Village received some very valuable feedback
from those meetings in Phase I of this project.
Ms. Neukirch stated Phase II was when Camiros and their team began their research which will
be reported on tonight. She stated they are looking forward to hearing from the Plan
Commission on this point.
Ms. Neukirch stated the next thing to do is to put together two conceptual plans for each study
area, seeking feedback and comment on both plans and eventually they will be put into one
preferred plan which will be presented to the Plan Commission for consideration and then
presented to the Village Board for final consideration and approval.
Ms. Neukirch stated the whole project is anticipated to be done by October and hopefully it will
be coincide with the completion of the entire Comprehensive Plan for the Village.
Mr. Gore stated there are two ways of looking at transit oriented development. One, there are
land uses and development types that are proven transit generators. The main one would be
dense residential development with a minimum of 8 dwelling units per acre and that can take a
number of different forms but multi-family is very good. Also good are intense office
developments or intense industrial plants. These really do not exist at either one of the sites.
Other land uses than can get something out of being right next to the train stations are usually
convenience type of retail such as dry cleaners, restaurants, ATMs, groceries, coffee shops, news
stands, drug stores, video rental stores. This is the type of thing they are going toward.
However, first the lay of the land must be studied.
Mr. Gore first reviewed the Buffalo Grove train station, noting there are three PACE bus routes
coming in from Milwaukee Avenue. What they do is cross the tracks and then turn around to go
back out. There is no bus service coming from the west at this point and it is something to think
about. With the expansion of the parking lot there will be over 1,000 spaces. This train station
actually has the highest ridership total of any of the stations on the North Central service line.
Mr. Gore stated besides the land uses the most important thing about transit oriented
development is making sure that there is good pedestrian access. He noted they want people on
the ground walking to the station. They want to work on the access in order to have more people
walking to the station. He further noted there is no access to the station on the east side although
there is a plat form there. This is an issue they would want to look at.
Mr. Gore stated he has observed some unofficial paths used by people walking to the train
station. He further noted that the people south of the station have relatively good access to the
station. This is something that should be discussed and encouraged.
Mr. Gore then reviewed the Prairie View station noting the new parking facility on the east side
of tracks which is more than doubled the amount of parking spaces there. Again the areas that
do not have sidewalks are in the unincorporated areas and some of the key streets leading
straight to the station do not have sidewalks.
Mr. Gore then summarized the Buffalo Grove train station area which he stated is a business
park which has a good portion of the study area in residential areas also. The Prairie View
station has quite a variety of density patterns with Noah's Landing getting up to where they
would like to be in order to be called TOD. The big issue here at Prairie View is the sewer.
Engineering has looked at this problem and has recommended a larger pipe going down Easton,
under the tracks and going up to the large vacant acreage in the north. The sewer pipe would
then make it possible for everyone in the Prairie View area to hook up to the sewer. How this
progresses will make a difference in how the concept plans are looked at. The other
recommendation the engineer had was a wet well which basically is a storage tank to store
sewage during the peak periods and then pump it out when there is capacity in the pipes.
Without doing this storage, it would require the bigger pipe which would be very expensive.
Mr. Gore reviewed some of the existing structures which contribute to the historical character of
the area. He stated feedback from Lake County Environmental Health Department also stressed
that '/z acre per lot was pushing the envelope and 3/4 to a full acre was really recommended. This
makes it very difficult to bring any more development into Prairie View with the existing septic
systems. He stated he has heard that a new pipe would be extended down to the depot and the
new pizza business would have the option to petition the Village of Buffalo Grove for
annexation.
Mr. Gore noted that most of the people at the Prairie View meeting wanted to protect the
character of Prairie View. He noted that the challenge is how to do that. Some of the properties
that appear to be ready for development are the piece left over at Noah's Landing, a property for
sale south of Half Day Road, the Fiore plant nursery, the recycling business and the portable
toilet distribution business. There are some areas that could be redeveloped but would be
tougher because there are people living there and there are houses there.
Mr. Gore stated the big issue to come out of the workshop and further clarified by the Village is
that IDOT will close the north turning movement at Half Day onto Prairie east of the tracks. The
thought is that IDOT does not want cars queuing up and backing up over the tracks. This is a big
constraint and the potential to do any sort of real commercial development there is pretty tough.
Mr. Gore summarized some of the big issues in the area:
1. Conservation of Prairie View character.
2. Difficulty of doing this redevelopment on a piecemeal basis, especially with regard to the
extension of the sewer service.
3. Turning movements are very important and there is difficult access to the site on the
southeast corner.
4. The boundary agreement with the Village of Lincolnshire specifies different density
limits for certain parcels which is not really transit oriented development.
Mr. Gore further summarized some of the questions regarding redevelopment, noting these are
the things they would like to discuss now:
1. Is mixed use appropriate here and in what sort configuration.
2. What image should the area reflect?
3. What kind of density should be developed? This is impacted by the boundary agreement
with Lincolnshire for 2 dwelling units per acre. Although multi-family development is not
necessarily the only way to go, it would have to be somewhat larger than 2 dwelling units per
acre.
Commissioner Bocek stated if the plan would center on single family, 8500 foot lots, she would
be concerned. She noted when you are paying in the upper brackets for a home she would have
a problem with less than '/4 acre lot.
Commissioner Cohn stated younger families who might be attracted to living near the trade
station would probably trade off being a little further from the train station to have a little more
space on their lot and therefore these lots might not attract younger families and people walking
to the train. As far as the development closest to the train for density type of development he
feels condos make more sense than single family residences.
Commissioner Bocek noted who is going to live here may dictate lower priced homes in the
starter area which might drive the whole situation differently.
Mr. Gore noted the whole question of the development of the vacant 40 acres begs the question
of the agreement with Lincolnshire which needs some direction of the Village.
Mr. Cohn stated it seems that if that issue is negotiable with Lincolnshire and if it is an issue that
seems to be of significant constraints on development, it is something we should at least talk
about and deal with if we can.
Commissioner Stark noted the shift within Buffalo Grove from single family development to
townhome development and we should be cognizant of that perhaps try to shift back towards a
single family community.
Mr. Gore continued with questions regarding development in Prairie View:
4. What should occur at Half Day and Prairie Road? Right now the plant nursery is there
and they could look at a commercial scenario as well. It would be a difference of looking at just
commercial or going for the mixed use and the real TOD.
Commissioner Smith stated he likes the multi-family mixed with commercial underneath and
residential on top. He asked if it would be viable for businesses to come in there.
Mr. Gore stated he thinks it would.
Mr. Lynch stated there is a market, but access issues and amenities would need to be addressed
to make it an attractive residential setting.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated they are always talking about the viability of retail and asked if
these establishments would be the type that thrives Monday through Friday when commuters are
there or would there be a better base to draw from if residential is added.
Mr. Gore stated at Prairie View what they want to develop is something that is more of a unique
destination. He stated Prairie View could have something that is somewhat different and it
might get more traffic on the weekends.
Chairman Ottenheimer stated the concept he sees is more like a mini downtown Long Grove.
Mr. Pollock noted you cannot run a business on trains which are only an augmentation in terms
of customer base. He stated they are really talking about the creation of a destination here of
effectively modest scale uses. As the area matures then the corporate types show up but they
will not be the primaries.
Commissioner Stark stated he likes the idea of a mini type of Long Grove area but wondered if
the region can support two Long Grove downtown type areas just five miles apart.
Continuing with questions regarding development in Prairie View:
5. Pedestrian access on both sides of the tracks. Mr. Gore noted we need to think about
how to improve that environment
6. Retail on the east side of the tracks.
7. What uses should occur in the area southeast of Half Day and Prairie Road.
Mr. Pollock stated there are some major anchors in the region. These developed as a result of
access and land. The key part of access was to hook together on the highest access roads serving
the market. Buffalo Grove initially did not have big parcels in an accessible fashion so big
business went elsewhere. What we have within our community are a bunch of smaller sites to
deal with.
Mr. Lynch stated the planning department in the Village is now working with different
developers and landowners at both Deerfield and Busch at Milwaukee Avenue. The question
then becomes what that means for doing retail at the Buffalo Grove train station.
Mr. Pollock stated what we have at the station is a group of sites that even if they are available
are now sort of off the beaten path from where the retailers have already begun to cluster which
makes it all the more challenging for them.
Mr. Gore reviewed the constraints and opportunities analysis to bring in transit oriented
development. At the Buffalo Grove station these constraints are heavy. There is a railroad track
with about 40 trains per day. There is the Comm Ed high tension lines as well as an industrial
business park with a very restrictive covenant on it.
Mr. Lynch stated this area is predominantly industrial with fairly high lot coverage for a
suburban office park. When we look at a redevelopment plan we have to be thinking longer
term. There are quality buildings that are taking up a lot of land and any concept that would
have a change in use of any of that underlying land uses means someone must buy these
buildings for the value of the land and the economics are very expensive. In this current state of
high quality office/industrial environment it is not a market that is conducive to developers
coming in to buy these properties out and redeveloping them without Village assistance. Now
what we have to do is assume that these uses are probably going to be staying for the near term.
Mr. Lynch noted the office market essentially stinks right now. Therefore, we don't want to plan
at this time for speculative office development. The exception to that is we always want to
reserve the possibility that someone could say they have a user who needs a building and likes
this area. That is somewhat outside the typical market dynamics.
Mr. Gore stated they want to look at some opportunities for mixing uses. If they put an office
structure into the plan he would like to think about it an approach Siemens as "this is for you."
He noted there is a pattern developing along the south side of Deerfield Parkway. There is a
concrete erector site which the Village surrounds and would be a good annex. The PACE
property can have some different options and a couple of vacant properties. Unfortunately the
power lines cut right in the middle of these areas. This is the area where they would like to look
into bringing some of the retail in.
Mr. Gore also stated they will be looking into flipping the PACE lot to the east side of the tracks
which would give the opportunity to do something with the PACE property. The PACE property
is in a prime location because we can have people coming off the platform. He also noted they
would like to create some more shortcuts for people.
Mr. Gore stated that the way to go is with one of the concepts to bring in enough intensity of
development here that it creates its own place. One of the questions then is should we emphasize
the TOD uses and should we develop mixed uses on the south side of Deerfield Parkway.
Commissioner Kenski-Sroka stated that depends on what is considered mixed use. She stated
she can see retail on the south side of Deerfield Parkway but she cannot see residential.
Commissioner Smith stated it does not sound like there is much confidence in this site. He asked
if there is ever a site that is so challenged that the recommendation is to leave it as is.
Mr. Gore stated that sooner or later this whole area will be redeveloped with transit oriented
development. It is going to be really tough which is why they want to start on vacant properties.
Mr. Pollock some of the areas on the south side has potential but might need more visual to
conceptualize and show how this side of the street can change in character.
Commissioner Stark asked what constraints are due to the existing Commerce Court.
Mr. Gore stated it is a real constraint for retail but would not be a problem for any residential.
Commissioner Stark asked if the people who would live in any residential built here would
actually take the train.
Mr. Gore stated that is something that would have to be analyzed.
Commissioner Cohn stated that the Amli development is full up and the area would support high
density residential as long as there was some commercial nearby. He stated there is common
theme for both train stations which is that there needs to be some high density residential
development near both train stations and then the commercial area will come with it anchored by
the train station. He further stated he feels Mr. Gore is correct that the Deerfield train station is a
long term vision and we need to see something of what we want this area to look like in the long
term and it will just evolve if we set in motion what our vision is. It is easier to have a vision
because you are building into an infrastructure that is already there and we just need to create the
physical infrastructure to do that which is the sewer line. He stated he does not feel that TOD is
as high a priority at the Deerfield station as it should be at Prairie View. We should definitely
look into filling in some of the properties that are vacant or not used with high density residential
as the primary focus with less of a focus on destination retail other than just a little that people
would want and then maybe some retail would come with more people.
Mr. Gore stated that with Prairie View there is some stuff there to work with to create this flavor
or character.
Commissioner Cohn asked if the vision for these plans can actually be accomplished based on
demand.
Mr. Gore stated he thinks the community needs to come up with a vision of what it wants and
then there are hopefully developers out there who understand the vision and believe there is the
financing and the demand to actually build it.
Commissioner Cohn stated he feels we have the vision in a general sense and asked if there is
actually the demand and market to actually realize the vision whether it is now or much farther
down the line.
Mr. Gore stated the problem is who will finance the project. He said they would like to do the
concepts first and then run it by U.S. Equities to see what they think.
Commissioner Stark stated that everyone would like to see other people besides commuters
using the facilities on the commercial side if this does become a mixed use development. He
said he believes it is very important to see the whole Village and the whole area using the
facilities and perhaps even people outside of the Village.
Commissioner Stark noted the presentation pointed out that this whole thing would be very
difficult to do piecemeal. He asked if there was any idea of where this all stands.
Mr. Gore stated he has been thinking of the concept plans and one of them will show a concept
where we deal more site by site. He stated he would like to work with how the different
approaches might work. This might be very difficult around the 40 acres on Port Clinton
because it seems the only way to get up there is to put a bigger sewer pipe and the most logical
way is down Easton so that anyone who wanted to get annexed and hooked up to sewer would
have it there. He stated they can draw things up differently imagining that someone would
assemble all of the land and design a project or parcel by parcel.
Commissioner Cohn stated that we can develop some pretty plans and hope someone shows up.
However, he feels the next step is to discuss the infrastructure commitments such as sidewalks
and sewers, TIFs for TOD and the marketing by the community. He asked what other specific
items does the Village need to do to promote the plans and would Camiros be making
suggestions on how to do that.
Mr. Gore said they have a whole scope item on that task and they will be looking at that in great
detail. He stated they would also be looking at U.S. Equities to help them out with that.
Commissioner Smith stated he remembers something in the report about some housing ideas
around the Horatio Gardens area down Raphael. He asked for some clarification.
Mr. Gore stated they will be doing some site planning work for that area where four houses are
for sale right now. He noted he is not sure yet how to handle this in the concept plans because
some of it will not be contiguous with the Village.
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT—None
FUTURE AGENDA SCHEDULE -
Mr. Pfeil stated the next regularly scheduled meeting will be May 3, 2006. On May 17, 2006 the
TOD plan will be on the agenda for the Commission to review the conceptual plans. He noted
that there will be special meetings in June concerning the Comprehensive Plan update.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS—None
STAFF REPORT—None
NEW BUSINESS- -None
ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Kenski-Sroka and carried
unanimously to adjourn. Chairman Ottenheimer adjourned the meeting at 9:22 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Fay Rubin, Recording Secretary
APPROVED BY:
LESTER OTTENHEIMER, Chair